Just a strange thought

With the holiday season here and thinking about this shooting I just wonder what the holidays were like in 98' with Eric and Dylan's families.

At this point they would of planned NBK for almost a year and in 4 months were planning to execute it and kill themselves.

If I were Eric or Dylan I would just feel extremely awkward at the holiday get togethers knowing that it would be my last and my family would think everything is alright and normal with me, come to find 4 months later I was one of the shooters.

Did sue ever talk about this?

Thoughts?

Sue talks about their last Christmas a little in A Mother’s Reckoning. Dylan picked the biggest tree, they ate at a Moroccan restaurant and Dylan got a leather trench coat.

It’s sad to think that it was so many people’s last Christmas but only two people knew...

I think there is something about them going to Chris’s for BYE as well.


I imagine that last year all their friends and family are probably going over so many different moments. Can you imagine looking at pictures from the holidays or that party and thinking wow at that moment they knew what they were going to do.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Sue talks about their last Christmas a little in A Mother’s Reckoning. Dylan picked the biggest tree, they ate at a Moroccan restaurant and Dylan got a leather trench coat.

It’s sad to think that it was so many people’s last Christmas but only two people knew...

I think there is something about them going to Chris’s for BYE as well.


I imagine that last year all their friends and family are probably going over so many different moments. Can you imagine looking at pictures from the holidays or that party and thinking wow at that moment they knew what they were going to do.

That is what I mean, even them saying goodbye to friends just gives an eerie feeling. Your never supposed to know when your going to die.

The goodbye kiss on Devon’s head is so eerie to me too. I wonder if that was out of character for Dylan?

Screamingophelia wrote:

The goodbye kiss on Devon’s head is so eerie to me too. I wonder if that was out of character for Dylan?

Agreed. Eric was the one everyone said would hug his friends that were girls and things like that. I can't really recall if anyone said Dylan did things like that often.

When Sue was discussing all of Dylan's "lasts" in her book I found it very interesting the things she remembered. Like what they ate for dinner on the last Sunday he was alive. The mind is an interesting thing

Lizpuff wrote:

When Sue was discussing all of Dylan's "lasts" in her book I found it very interesting the things she remembered.  Like what they ate for dinner on the last Sunday he was alive.  The mind is an interesting thing

You really have to wonder about somethings though. I do wonder if certain things were lost or mixed up due to the grief and just the sheer amount of stress she was under at the time. Then when she wrote the book things may have been all jumbled up.

Also I know its would be a HUGE invasion of privacy, BUT I would LOVE to be able to read all her journal entries during that time. She does list several in her book. I can only imagine the pain, confusion, anger and frustration that the majority of them would be filled with.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

When Sue was discussing all of Dylan's "lasts" in her book I found it very interesting the things she remembered.  Like what they ate for dinner on the last Sunday he was alive.  The mind is an interesting thing

You really have to wonder about somethings though. I do wonder if certain things were lost or mixed up due to the grief and just the sheer amount of stress she was under at the time. Then when she wrote the book things may have been all jumbled up.

Also I know its would be a HUGE invasion of privacy, BUT I would LOVE to be able to read all her journal entries during that time. She does list several in her book. I can only imagine the pain, confusion, anger and frustration that the majority of them would be filled with.

Yea. I know things can become very confused.... at the same time looking at my own experiences I can remember some things ever so vividly when it came to traumatic times in my life. So perhaps she can remember all those tiny things. Sometimes it feels like my own personal horror movie where I can watch my life replay over and over and just remember the most insignificant things.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

The goodbye kiss on Devon’s head is so eerie to me too. I wonder if that was out of character for Dylan?

Agreed. Eric was the one everyone said would hug his friends that were girls and things like that. I can't really recall if anyone said Dylan did things like that often.

You’re right.

We never hear of Dylan giving a hug or anything.

Was it just Sue, or did his other friends say it was surprising that he was holding hands with Robyn at prom?

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

The goodbye kiss on Devon’s head is so eerie to me too. I wonder if that was out of character for Dylan?

Agreed. Eric was the one everyone said would hug his friends that were girls and things like that. I can't really recall if anyone said Dylan did things like that often.

You’re right.

We never hear of Dylan giving a hug or anything.

Was it just Sue, or did his other friends say it was surprising that he was holding hands with Robyn at prom?

DAMN I can't remember! But I have often wondered if he did it because SHE wanted to, OR if he did it to see what it felt like to hold a girl's hand.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

The goodbye kiss on Devon’s head is so eerie to me too. I wonder if that was out of character for Dylan?

Agreed. Eric was the one everyone said would hug his friends that were girls and things like that. I can't really recall if anyone said Dylan did things like that often.

You’re right.

We never hear of Dylan giving a hug or anything.

Was it just Sue, or did his other friends say it was surprising that he was holding hands with Robyn at prom?

DAMN I can't remember! But I have often wondered if he did it because SHE wanted to, OR if he did it to see what it felt like to hold a girl's hand.

I bet a little bit of both

In Chads videos he brings up an interesting observation about Dylan. How he may have benefited from massage. Any sort of physical contact. A hug or something. Not even going to the whole needing to get laid thing or anything I mean maybe he needed to feel connected to somebody.

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

The goodbye kiss on Devon’s head is so eerie to me too. I wonder if that was out of character for Dylan?

Agreed. Eric was the one everyone said would hug his friends that were girls and things like that. I can't really recall if anyone said Dylan did things like that often.

You’re right.

We never hear of Dylan giving a hug or anything.

Was it just Sue, or did his other friends say it was surprising that he was holding hands with Robyn at prom?

DAMN I can't remember! But I have often wondered if he did it because SHE wanted to, OR if he did it to see what it felt like to hold a girl's hand.

I bet a little bit of both

In Chads videos he brings up an interesting observation  about Dylan. How he may have benefited from massage. Any sort of physical contact. A hug or something. Not even going to the whole needing to get laid thing or  anything I mean maybe he needed to feel connected to somebody.

I wonder if this is also why Eric was so affectionate, huggy, etc? I mean other then he was a horny teen. But its possible that he also just wanted to have some sort of physical affection at times as well.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

The goodbye kiss on Devon’s head is so eerie to me too. I wonder if that was out of character for Dylan?

Agreed. Eric was the one everyone said would hug his friends that were girls and things like that. I can't really recall if anyone said Dylan did things like that often.

You’re right.

We never hear of Dylan giving a hug or anything.

Was it just Sue, or did his other friends say it was surprising that he was holding hands with Robyn at prom?

DAMN I can't remember! But I have often wondered if he did it because SHE wanted to, OR if he did it to see what it felt like to hold a girl's hand.

I bet a little bit of both

In Chads videos he brings up an interesting observation  about Dylan. How he may have benefited from massage. Any sort of physical contact. A hug or something. Not even going to the whole needing to get laid thing or  anything I mean maybe he needed to feel connected to somebody.

I wonder if this is also why Eric was so affectionate, huggy, etc? I mean other then he was a horny teen.  But its possible that he also just wanted to have some sort of physical affection at times as well.

The latter, yes lol

You have a good point. Eric seemed to be different from his family. More emotional perhaps so he may have needed to express affection with his friends more than he could at home?

I’m not saying if they were hugged more they wouldn’t have commited a massacre. I think towards the end a hug machine and an orgy wouldn’t have swayed them....

Screamingophelia wrote:

The latter, yes lol

You have a good point. Eric seemed to be different from his family. More emotional perhaps so he may have needed to express affection with his friends more than he could at home?

I’m not saying if they were hugged more they wouldn’t have commited a massacre. I think towards the end a hug machine and an orgy wouldn’t have swayed them....

I think Eric was very much like his mom. There were mentions of Kathy tearing up over Eric's spat with Brook's etc. I think she was an emotional type and Eric likely was as well. BUT I think he probably did try to hide it because he wanted to be seen as tough.

AND yeah no amount of hugging or orgies would have stopped them at that point. Both needed help in various ways.

I believe once someone has reached the point of no return no amount of what caused them the pain would make things ok. I feel this way in my point of life.

joebox97 wrote:

I believe once someone has reached the point of no return no amount of what caused them the pain would make things ok. I feel this way in my point of life.

I agree. Those who have decided suicide is their only option, and have chosen a date/bought the gun etc are generally happier bc they know the end is near. Sometimes if family or friends have noticed they are depressed they might think that person has suddenly gotten better. It is quite sad

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

The latter, yes lol

You have a good point. Eric seemed to be different from his family. More emotional perhaps so he may have needed to express affection with his friends more than he could at home?

I’m not saying if they were hugged more they wouldn’t have commited a massacre. I think towards the end a hug machine and an orgy wouldn’t have swayed them....

I think Eric was very much like his mom. There were mentions of Kathy tearing up over Eric's spat with Brook's etc. I think she was an emotional type and Eric likely was as well. BUT I think he probably did try to hide it because he wanted to be seen as tough.

AND yeah no amount of hugging or orgies would have stopped them at that point. Both needed help in various ways.

Which makes the way Tom Mauser describes her as seeming odd. Very put together and saying Eric was a psychopath and that’s that.

Though that could be her trying to keep things together. She was protecting Eric even when the police showed up.

This is total speculation but I think Eric liked his parents more than Dylan liked his. I think the little loved his parents but I think he was feeling really disconnected from the time he was 15 and it just kept getting worse. I read something about his funeral and a comment about Sues book and it struck me as odd, someone said it’s like he stopped existing after age 13. Like nobody had any happy Dylan memrories after he was 13. I wish I could find that quote.

Even Dylan wrote that he stopped existing after a certain point.

Makes you wonder what else Robyn got him to do that was unusual for him lol.. she seemed kinda clingy.

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

The latter, yes lol

You have a good point. Eric seemed to be different from his family. More emotional perhaps so he may have needed to express affection with his friends more than he could at home?

I’m not saying if they were hugged more they wouldn’t have commited a massacre. I think towards the end a hug machine and an orgy wouldn’t have swayed them....

I think Eric was very much like his mom. There were mentions of Kathy tearing up over Eric's spat with Brook's etc. I think she was an emotional type and Eric likely was as well. BUT I think he probably did try to hide it because he wanted to be seen as tough.

AND yeah no amount of hugging or orgies would have stopped them at that point. Both needed help in various ways.

Which makes the way Tom Mauser describes her as seeming odd. Very put together and saying Eric was a psychopath and that’s that.

Though that could be her trying to keep things together.  She was protecting Eric even when the police showed up.

This is total speculation but I think Eric liked his parents more than Dylan liked his. I think the little loved his parents but I think he was feeling really disconnected from the time he was 15 and it just kept getting worse. I read something about his funeral and a comment about Sues book and it struck me as odd, someone said it’s like he stopped existing after age 13. Like nobody had any happy Dylan memrories after he was 13. I wish I could find that quote.

Even Dylan wrote that he stopped existing after a certain point.

Agreed. I do think Eric had more love and feelings for his family then Dylan. AND your right Kathy was still trying to protect her son even after she knew what he was involved in. I actually think that the Harris's possibly accepted the psychopath thing just as a way to cope at first. I am SO damn ready for those Depositions to come out!

rebel2013 wrote:

Makes you wonder what else Robyn got him to do that was unusual for him lol.. she seemed kinda  clingy.

Even the gun seller noticed Robyn was flirting with Dylan excessively.


Considering he kissed Devon on the head it wouldn’t surprise me if he gave Robyn one too

I think Dylan did whatever he had to do to get Robyn to buy those guns...flirting hugs etc

Screamingophelia wrote:

rebel2013 wrote:

Makes you wonder what else Robyn got him to do that was unusual for him lol.. she seemed kinda  clingy.

Even the gun seller noticed Robyn was flirting with Dylan excessively.


Considering he kissed Devon on the head it wouldn’t surprise me if he gave Robyn one too

I wouldn't doubt he kissed Robyn or do a little more than that.. considering Robyn wanted to "jump his bones" as they say.. I mean they did stay out late prom night lol anything could've happened and Robyn isn't gonna admit it.

Lizpuff wrote:

I think Dylan did whatever he had to do to get Robyn to buy those guns...flirting hugs etc

She was a means to an end.

On top of everything else I’m sure the fact that Dylan probably faked a lot of his affection for her had to have hurt so much

rebel2013 wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

rebel2013 wrote:

Makes you wonder what else Robyn got him to do that was unusual for him lol.. she seemed kinda  clingy.

Even the gun seller noticed Robyn was flirting with Dylan excessively.


Considering he kissed Devon on the head it wouldn’t surprise me if he gave Robyn one too

I wouldn't doubt he kissed Robyn or do a little more than that.. considering Robyn wanted to "jump his bones" as they say.. I mean they did stay out late prom night lol anything could've happened and Robyn isn't gonna admit it.

That would’ve pissed Eric off SO much

Screamingophelia wrote:

rebel2013 wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

rebel2013 wrote:

Makes you wonder what else Robyn got him to do that was unusual for him lol.. she seemed kinda  clingy.

Even the gun seller noticed Robyn was flirting with Dylan excessively.


Considering he kissed Devon on the head it wouldn’t surprise me if he gave Robyn one too

I wouldn't doubt he kissed Robyn or do a little more than that.. considering Robyn wanted to "jump his bones" as they say.. I mean they did stay out late prom night lol anything could've happened and Robyn isn't gonna admit it.

That would’ve pissed Eric off SO much

True but Dylan was a private person also don't think he would've told Eric anything because he didn't wanna piss him off and turn on him.

I am not saying DYlan and Robyn didn't do anything... but I doubt they did. I don't think he liked her that way at all and considering he was going to die, I don't think he felt that hard up. Just a feeling though

At that point I dont think Dylan cared either way, it would've been "something cool for him" as a little experimentation before he died just to see what being with a girl felt like. Just IMO.

Lizpuff wrote:

I am not saying DYlan and Robyn didn't do anything... but I doubt they did.  I don't think he liked her that way at all and considering he was going to die, I don't think he felt that hard up.  Just a feeling though

I know what you mean but my mind definitely went somewhere else with that second to last sentence

Plus I think I read Eric came to after prom and Dylan was mostly with his friends all night.

Lizpuff wrote:

I am not saying DYlan and Robyn didn't do anything... but I doubt they did.  I don't think he liked her that way at all and considering he was going to die, I don't think he felt that hard up.  Just a feeling though

Dont think it was sex more like a little kissing or a little touchy feely kinda thing.. but as far as sex I doubt myself because Dylan was really self conscious.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

I am not saying DYlan and Robyn didn't do anything... but I doubt they did.  I don't think he liked her that way at all and considering he was going to die, I don't think he felt that hard up.  Just a feeling though

I know what you mean but my mind definitely went somewhere else with that second to last sentence

Plus I think I read Eric came to after prom and Dylan was mostly with his friends all night.

bwahahaha pun not intended.

Lizpuff wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

I am not saying DYlan and Robyn didn't do anything... but I doubt they did.  I don't think he liked her that way at all and considering he was going to die, I don't think he felt that hard up.  Just a feeling though

I know what you mean but my mind definitely went somewhere else with that second to last sentence

Plus I think I read Eric came to after prom and Dylan was mostly with his friends all night.

bwahahaha pun not intended.

rebel2013 wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

I am not saying DYlan and Robyn didn't do anything... but I doubt they did.  I don't think he liked her that way at all and considering he was going to die, I don't think he felt that hard up.  Just a feeling though

Dont think it was sex more like a little kissing or a little touchy feely kinda thing.. but as far as sex I doubt myself because Dylan was really self conscious.

Also, And All kidding aside, it’s a weird thing to talk about. However, when I look at his journals and how he does things to “cleanse” himself then he talks about his halcyon girl. I’m not sure he would have done anything because In his mind he was saving himself for her. That’s another reason I read that people think he kept his ring on, it was for her.

Screamingophelia wrote:

rebel2013 wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

I am not saying DYlan and Robyn didn't do anything... but I doubt they did.  I don't think he liked her that way at all and considering he was going to die, I don't think he felt that hard up.  Just a feeling though

Dont think it was sex more like a little kissing or a little touchy feely kinda thing.. but as far as sex I doubt myself because Dylan was really self conscious.

Also, And All kidding aside,  it’s a weird thing to talk about. However, when I look at his journals and how he does things to “cleanse” himself then he talks about his halcyon girl. I’m not sure he would have done anything because In his mind he was saving himself for her. That’s another reason I read that people  think he kept his ring on, it was for her.

True True..

Screamingophelia wrote:

rebel2013 wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

I am not saying DYlan and Robyn didn't do anything... but I doubt they did.  I don't think he liked her that way at all and considering he was going to die, I don't think he felt that hard up.  Just a feeling though

Dont think it was sex more like a little kissing or a little touchy feely kinda thing.. but as far as sex I doubt myself because Dylan was really self conscious.

Also, And All kidding aside,  it’s a weird thing to talk about. However, when I look at his journals and how he does things to “cleanse” himself then he talks about his halcyon girl. I’m not sure he would have done anything because In his mind he was saving himself for her. That’s another reason I read that people  think he kept his ring on, it was for her.

Who is "her"? regarding the ring.

IMO I believe both died as virgins, which isn't demeaning in anyway. Just that it seems Robyn almost forced dylan to go with her and I think they were good friends, friends take friends to proms all the time, just cause you have a male/female couple going doesn't mean its a romantic relationship.

I think Dylan would be too self conscious and shy for sex that night, especially with someone I think he thought of as "just a friend". His mind was probably fully focused on NBK at this point. I think anything else was probably just a distraction to both him and eric.

joebox97 wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

rebel2013 wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

I am not saying DYlan and Robyn didn't do anything... but I doubt they did.  I don't think he liked her that way at all and considering he was going to die, I don't think he felt that hard up.  Just a feeling though

Dont think it was sex more like a little kissing or a little touchy feely kinda thing.. but as far as sex I doubt myself because Dylan was really self conscious.

Also, And All kidding aside,  it’s a weird thing to talk about. However, when I look at his journals and how he does things to “cleanse” himself then he talks about his halcyon girl. I’m not sure he would have done anything because In his mind he was saving himself for her. That’s another reason I read that people  think he kept his ring on, it was for her.

Who is "her"? regarding the ring.

IMO I believe both died as virgins, which isn't demeaning in anyway. Just that it seems Robyn almost forced dylan to go with her and I think they were good friends, friends take friends to proms all the time, just cause you have a male/female couple going doesn't mean its a romantic relationship.

I think Dylan would be too self conscious and shy for sex that night, especially with someone I think he thought of as "just a friend". His mind was probably fully focused on NBK at this point. I think anything else was probably just a distraction to both him and eric.

her would be the halcyon girl. His dream girl. Who may or may not have existed irl

Lizpuff wrote:

joebox97 wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

rebel2013 wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

I am not saying DYlan and Robyn didn't do anything... but I doubt they did.  I don't think he liked her that way at all and considering he was going to die, I don't think he felt that hard up.  Just a feeling though

Dont think it was sex more like a little kissing or a little touchy feely kinda thing.. but as far as sex I doubt myself because Dylan was really self conscious.

Also, And All kidding aside,  it’s a weird thing to talk about. However, when I look at his journals and how he does things to “cleanse” himself then he talks about his halcyon girl. I’m not sure he would have done anything because In his mind he was saving himself for her. That’s another reason I read that people  think he kept his ring on, it was for her.

Who is "her"? regarding the ring.

IMO I believe both died as virgins, which isn't demeaning in anyway. Just that it seems Robyn almost forced dylan to go with her and I think they were good friends, friends take friends to proms all the time, just cause you have a male/female couple going doesn't mean its a romantic relationship.

I think Dylan would be too self conscious and shy for sex that night, especially with someone I think he thought of as "just a friend". His mind was probably fully focused on NBK at this point. I think anything else was probably just a distraction to both him and eric.

her would be the halcyon girl.  His dream girl.  Who may or may not have existed irl

Thanks!

Lizpuff wrote:

I am not saying DYlan and Robyn didn't do anything... but I doubt they did.  I don't think he liked her that way at all and considering he was going to die, I don't think he felt that hard up.  Just a feeling though

I have to agree with you. I don't think Dylan and Robyn ever did anything. It doesn't really seem like he liked her half as much as she liked him. I believe he went to prom with her as a courtesy thing, really. I think they were friends. That's all.

Lizpuff wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

When Sue was discussing all of Dylan's "lasts" in her book I found it very interesting the things she remembered.  Like what they ate for dinner on the last Sunday he was alive.  The mind is an interesting thing

You really have to wonder about somethings though. I do wonder if certain things were lost or mixed up due to the grief and just the sheer amount of stress she was under at the time. Then when she wrote the book things may have been all jumbled up.

Also I know its would be a HUGE invasion of privacy, BUT I would LOVE to be able to read all her journal entries during that time. She does list several in her book. I can only imagine the pain, confusion, anger and frustration that the majority of them would be filled with.

Yea.  I know things can become very confused.... at the same time looking at my own experiences I can remember some things ever so vividly when it came to traumatic times in my life.  So perhaps she can remember all those tiny things.  Sometimes it feels like my own personal horror movie where I can watch my life replay over and over and just remember the most insignificant things.  

Very true. I remember things from my past that I pray on a near daily basis that I could just forget. Such stupid little details like a certain smell, or a certain color, a certain noise that was associated to what I was going through at the time and it completely devastates me even though these things happened years ago.