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Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum
A place to discuss the Columbine High School Massacre along with other school shootings and crimes. Anyone interested in researching, learning, discussing and debating with us, please come join our community!
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Subject: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:43 am
...then this board would not exist. Because there would be nothing to talk about.
When you watch a video of a mass shooting taking place, it really changes your perspective. When it's over, there really is nothing more to say. It's just a guy with a gun putting bullets in people's heads and blowing their brains out as easily as he might stomp on a cockroach. You're not left with any genuine insights into anything, except that you understand more fully that there really is such a thing as true evil, and that, at his heart, man truly is a savage, savage beast.
Over the last twenty years, I've spent many long hours poring over the library diagrams, trying to piece together a mental image of just how the massacre went down. I've studied the 911 transcript hundreds if not thousands of times. I've pored through the entire 11k on multiple occasions.
But if I had a video of the massacre in the library, then none of that would matter. I would watch the video and I would say to myself, "Sweet Jesus, they're blowing these kids' heads off," and leave it at that. I wouldn't care to try to understand their motivations, because I couldn't imagine how I could ever begin to comprehend their thought processes.
In a way, I feel as if my obsessive interest in Columbine, which admittedly has been waning for many years, is now completely dead and buried. All of the morbid curiosity has just melted away. Because now I know what it is like to watch people die in a mass shooting. (Not really - I wasn't there - but I know as much as I need or want to know.) Somehow the Hollywood movies don't do it justice.
Now, granted, I just watched the 16-minute video for the first time a few minutes ago. Maybe in the coming hours and days I'll be able to form some kind of rational opinion about it. But right now all I can say is ... nothing. And I don't have any questions, either. I don't want to know anything more than I already do. In fact, I'd be very grateful if I could go back to my previous state of blissful naivete.
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alphawhiskey86
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Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:48 am
I believe people are still fascinated trying to figure out why, when sometimes it’s not a simple answer. But as Eric quotes from Shakespeare “good wombs have born bad sons”.
Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:11 am
The main differences are that E&D committed a 49 minute shooting with 13 deaths not blatantly done in the name of a certain ideology.
Now, Tarrant murdered around 40 people in a span of roughly 7 minutes while saying almost nothing during the actual shooting.
Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
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Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:53 am
I’m genuinely nervous about next month and what some idiot might try
_________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
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Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:56 am
I think this is been asked before but would anybody watch the video of the library?
_________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
QuestionMark Top 10 Contributor
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Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:02 am
Screamingophelia wrote:
I think this is been asked before but would anybody watch the video of the library?
I've seen footage of the school shooting in Brazil that happened two (or was it three?) days ago, I saw the video of the mosque attack last night, and I've seen other videos or pictures of people getting shot, stabbed, hit by cars, burned by radiation, etc. So yes, probably.
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LPorter101 Top 10 Contributor
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Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:52 pm
Screamingophelia wrote:
I think this is been asked before but would anybody watch the video of the library?
Yes, I would. As I said, there's always that morbid curiosity.
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Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:57 pm
Screamingophelia wrote:
I think this is been asked before but would anybody watch the video of the library?
I regret watching the 17 minute mosque video, so I don't know. Probably I guess. Curiosity killed the cat y'know.
Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
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Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:01 pm
hvernon wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
I think this is been asked before but would anybody watch the video of the library?
I regret watching the 17 minute mosque video, so I don't know. Probably I guess. Curiosity killed the cat y'know.
I imagine I’d feel differently about e and d if I did...I know that might not make sense
_________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:34 pm
Screamingophelia wrote:
hvernon wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
I think this is been asked before but would anybody watch the video of the library?
I regret watching the 17 minute mosque video, so I don't know. Probably I guess. Curiosity killed the cat y'know.
I imagine I’d feel differently about e and d if I did...I know that might not make sense
No, I understand. I probably would too.
Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
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Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:36 pm
hvernon wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
hvernon wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
I think this is been asked before but would anybody watch the video of the library?
I regret watching the 17 minute mosque video, so I don't know. Probably I guess. Curiosity killed the cat y'know.
I imagine I’d feel differently about e and d if I did...I know that might not make sense
No, I understand. I probably would too.
It would be different to observe their cruelty especially after learning so much about the victims and learning so much about them
Also obligatory, because someone has to say it might as well be me, we see a live stream of a mass shooting but we still can’t see the fucking basement tapes
_________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:41 pm
I am a little struggling with all this. I've already said that I am not really comfortable about being interested in mass shootings. But too many graphic stuff was released or leaked recently (and it makes me sorry for the families who cannot even have privacy) with the shooting in Crimea, in Brazil and now in NZ. And I am struggling with one thing in particular: I do think morbid curiosity is a human feeling and we cannot help it, and yet I also think, except if it is part of your job, that it is morally wrong to watch this stuff. I didn't expect the video of the attack in Brazil to be that graphic, and after I saw it I regretted it and almost wanted to have a break from the forum and all this stuff because I felt bad about having seen this. It's not that I was shocked by what I saw, but that I felt almost... impure? Morally wrong? And yet I obviously did not enjoy watching it. I don't have issues with watching gory things, but I feel bad for even having wanted to watch videos where innocent people were murdered. I wish all this stuff had never been released so that, even if we were curious about it, we could not do wrong.
How do you feel about it? Do you feel the same way?
Last edited by Neah on Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:42 pm
Screamingophelia wrote:
hvernon wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
hvernon wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
I think this is been asked before but would anybody watch the video of the library?
I regret watching the 17 minute mosque video, so I don't know. Probably I guess. Curiosity killed the cat y'know.
I imagine I’d feel differently about e and d if I did...I know that might not make sense
No, I understand. I probably would too.
It would be different to observe their cruelty especially after learning so much about the victims and learning so much about them
Also obligatory, because someone has to say it I might as well be me, we see a live stream of a mass shooting but we still can’t see the fucking basement tapes
Without seeing the shooting, there is something more human about Dylan and Eric. Almost as if you can distance them from the crime. But seeing them actually commit it would break that distancing in my opinion. It would make it harder to see them as humans and more as cold monsters just like this guy from NZ.
The police are trying to scrub it from the internet, but if you know where to look it is still up. So, they aren't happy that it happened. But yeah for real... the basement tapes are nothing compared to actually seeing innocent people shot.
LPorter101 Top 10 Contributor
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Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:48 pm
The visceral impact of the video overwhelms everything else. Once you see it, you can’t unsee it.
I’ve watched lots of grisly footage. The Budd Dwyer tape is pretty strong stuff. But there’s something categorically different about watching a mass shooting in progress. Things happen so fast that your mind doesn’t have time to catch up. And before you know it, dozens of living, breathing human beings have been reduced to literal piles of bloody corpses. It’s numbing at first, but the horror slowly sinks in as you go along.
For me, the video didn’t truly register until the guy went back and shot all of his victims in the head again to make sure they were really dead. That was my “Oh, shit!” moment. That’s when it started feeling real.
Like I said, once you see it happen, you’ve seen enough. I have no interest in reading his manifesto - not because it’s evil Nazi propaganda or whatever, but just because I know everything I need or want to know.
If I had video of E&D blowing their fellow students’ brains out, I don’t think I’d be particularly interested in a video of Dylan complaining that kids were mean to him in day care. It just wouldn’t seem important or relevant. It would be like reading the wine list at Windows on the World on the morning of 9/11.
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Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
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Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:35 pm
I am also thinking of survivors that saw the worst of it at Columbine and those who survived Aurora, possibly coming across footage of this.
Not seeing it distances you from the actual event, the actual horror.
I sometimes think, with the empathy I have for e and d.. what if I was a survivor of a shooting and it was done by a teenager. What if I was injured or someone I loved was injured? Would I have the compassion in my heart for that kid or would I just remember the cruel things that were said etc...
Neah, I think you hit the nail on the head. I don't think you are alone feeling the way you do. This is a reason why being interested in crime for so long was so taboo..
Now 20 years later, with meeting the people I have etc.. I wouldn't watch a video of the massacre.
When I was 17 and it first happened I probably would have watched it, if there was footage from the library.
_________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:41 pm
LPorter101 wrote:
The visceral impact of the video overwhelms everything else. Once you see it, you can’t unsee it.
I’ve watched lots of grisly footage. The Budd Dwyer tape is pretty strong stuff. But there’s something categorically different about watching a mass shooting in progress. Things happen so fast that your mind doesn’t have time to catch up. And before you know it, dozens of living, breathing human beings have been reduced to literal piles of bloody corpses. It’s numbing at first, but the horror slowly sinks in as you go along.
For me, the video didn’t truly register until the guy went back and shot all of his victims in the head again to make sure they were really dead. That was my “Oh, shit!” moment. That’s when it started feeling real.
Like I said, once you see it happen, you’ve seen enough. I have no interest in reading his manifesto - not because it’s evil Nazi propaganda or whatever, but just because I know everything I need or want to know.
If I had video of E&D blowing their fellow students’ brains out, I don’t think I’d be particularly interested in a video of Dylan complaining that kids were mean to him in day care. It just wouldn’t seem important or relevant. It would be like reading the wine list at Windows on the World on the morning of 9/11.
That video seemed unreal. It was so fast. You're right. When the shooter went back was when the video became very real for me. It is not a video that I can unsee, but I do wish I could. There was something very different about experiencing a mass shooting from the point of view of the shooter. Usually we have CCTV footage or videos of the aftermath, but actually watching how cold the shooter was and everything- it's very damning. I can't get that video out of my head. It makes me rethink my previous answer. I think I'd let my curiosity remain just that. I don't think I'd want to see the video.
Subdomine
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Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:26 pm
I had watched some of it live, and I'm usually a hardcore person, but I'll be damned if I said I didn't feel sick to my stomach seeing that woman beg for her life after being shot 4 times prior, only for Tarrant to shoot her two more times in her head.
I wouldn't mind watching the library video if one exists or ever existed. Personally I am of the opinion it would be much harder to watch considering how close range it would be.
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Lunkhead McGrath
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Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:05 pm
You have to have an actual interest in the story for violent footage/incidents to have the possibility of being the Elephant In The Room, and then for you to decide if you want to See The Elephant In The Room.
Columbine is fascinating to me because it's a 90s touchstone, a mystery, a flashpoint for changes in culture, an artifact of my own youth, and a weird sort of soap opera concerning the two killers and their little society in their school.
So yes, there would exist the curiosity regarding say, photos of the victims or footage of the shooting taking place. I may or may not watch it, but I've already seen horrible brutal things from Columbine: E&D's suicide pic, the bloody tour through the library by the police, the cafeteria footage, the helicopter footage of Rachel Scott being dragged around by rescuers. I am not saying I don't feel any painful emotions stirred up by these things or no visceral impact but I don't find myself slamming my laptop down and going "NO MORE, NO MORE NO MORE" to myself. There are other instances where I have watched graphic footage/graphic pictures from other crimes that haunted me: the Black Dahlia, the Manson killings, 9/11, Oklahoma City. Sometimes the haunting nature of these crimes sort of...pulls me in. Maybe I feel like I'm confronting real horror by doing so. I don't really entirely know how to articulate this.
I will never watch the NZ shooting livestream and for the reasons you've already said, plus I don't find anything interesting about this racist goon, or his manifesto, or what he did. I am horrified by the tragedy but will not watch artifacts from it, in part because I would probably throw up, and in part because just screw the horrible guy. That said the existence of yet another awful shooting has not diminished my interest in Columbine, because I am still haunted in many ways by Columbine.
In between these two extremes are the clips of Nicolas Cruz firing his loud gun at Parkland. I really WAS shocked and sickened by this footage and will not watch it again. But: the only interesting thing about Parkland to me is the gun-control debate and the ugliness of the Internet culture that retaliated against the students who wanted stricter gun laws. I find zilch interesting about Nikolas Cruz or his motives: he just seems like someone crazy. With E&D, I genuinely want to know what was wrong with them.
Your post is still correct and true, LPorter, and I will say I too am a bit diminished with my interest in Columbine, not because of other crimes or because of a sense that I'm a sicko for being interested in Columbine, or that it's something that I need to "grow out of"--but because I think I've seen the same questions about it asked too many times.
sympathyforEandD
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Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:46 am
^ You're right on about Columbine being a microcosm of the 90's. The trenchcoats, DOOM, the "jocks and nerds" divide straight out of a highschool movie. Sometimes Columbine feels like a giant fanfic. I was reading the Wikipedia article recently and it felt like I was reading a book. Isn't that weird? The image of the boys in the cafeteria always hits it home to me that it actually happened.
Anyhoo, I haven't watched the Christchurch footage and don't plan to. The thought of neckbeards sitting around watching this footage while sipping on a Slurpee makes me want to puke. And you just know they've spread it around the 'Net so nobody can "censor" their right to watch people being murdered.
That's one of the drawbacks of the Internet. You give people a tool to communicate and share information instantly and it ends up a cesspool of death videos, deranged gore websites, degenerate "Internet culture" with doxxing and swatting and other bullshit. People are fucking terrible.
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Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:57 am
Subdomine wrote:
I had watched some of it live, and I'm usually a hardcore person, but I'll be damned if I said I didn't feel sick to my stomach seeing that woman beg for her life after being shot 4 times prior, only for Tarrant to shoot her two more times in her head.
I wouldn't mind watching the library video if one exists or ever existed. Personally I am of the opinion it would be much harder to watch considering how close range it would be.
She was asking for help, not begging for her life.
QuestionMark Top 10 Contributor
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Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:05 pm
sympathyforEandD wrote:
^ You're right on about Columbine being a microcosm of the 90's. The trenchcoats, DOOM, the "jocks and nerds" divide straight out of a highschool movie. Sometimes Columbine feels like a giant fanfic. I was reading the Wikipedia article recently and it felt like I was reading a book. Isn't that weird? The image of the boys in the cafeteria always hits it home to me that it actually happened.
I'm reminded of Eric's statement "it feels like a god damn movie sometimes". I get that impression with Parkland to some extant, really.
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Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:16 pm
QuestionMark wrote:
sympathyforEandD wrote:
^ You're right on about Columbine being a microcosm of the 90's. The trenchcoats, DOOM, the "jocks and nerds" divide straight out of a highschool movie. Sometimes Columbine feels like a giant fanfic. I was reading the Wikipedia article recently and it felt like I was reading a book. Isn't that weird? The image of the boys in the cafeteria always hits it home to me that it actually happened.
I'm reminded of Eric's statement "it feels like a god damn movie sometimes". I get that impression with Parkland to some extant, really.
I get this impression for all mass shootings given that it is something that we don't have in France, until a particular details reminds me that this is real and usually forces me to identify to the victims: seeing the families of those killed by Dylann Roof cry, seeing Brenton Tarrant go back to the mosque and shoot again whereas the victims probably had started to think that the shooting was over, hearing about survivors who are still traumatized...
Jessieo011
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Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:32 pm
Screamingophelia wrote:
I think this is been asked before but would anybody watch the video of the library?
I’ve watched the live stream of ChCh out of curiosity so I would watch the video of the library for the same reason. I think it would of been interesting if they did a live stream but it wouldn’t of been the same as there wouldn’t be so many questions left in answered etc.
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NeedaHaircut
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Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:24 pm
I'm kind of surprised they didn't try to take the camera with them. Obviously it wouldn't be a live stream in '99 but they really wanted to make an impression. We would never be allowed to see it though.
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Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:40 pm
Screamingophelia wrote:
I think this is been asked before but would anybody watch the video of the library?
Absolutely, assuming that it was suppressed like how they're trying to suppress the NZ shooting the demand for the vid would probably be very high given the notoriety of the shooting (assuming that this live-streamed Columbine took place in 1999 and not 2019) and peoples innate morbid curiosity
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Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:41 pm
LPorter101 wrote:
When you watch a video of a mass shooting taking place, it really changes your perspective. When it's over, there really is nothing more to say. It's just a guy with a gun putting bullets in people's heads and blowing their brains out as easily as he might stomp on a cockroach. You're not left with any genuine insights into anything, except that you understand more fully that there really is such a thing as true evil, and that, at his heart, man truly is a savage, savage beast.
Very well said, and an excellent point at that too. Kind of reminds me of the whole idea of the "banality of evil", given that people more than likely picture events like Columbine, Parkland, etc. as much more stylistic or dramatic or incorrect than they actually are. But then this NZ video has shown that it's pretty much extremely brutal but at the same time very anti-climaticish. And also shows how calm or chill people can be despite doing some horrific shit (ie. Tarrant nonchalantly talking to the camera after the attack when he's driving away despite the fact he just shot 50+ people).
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Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:42 pm
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I think the main difference in how a mass shooting plays out could be considered in time to kill ratio. For example, Eric and Dylan, Pekka Auvinen, Matti Saari, and even Dimitrios Pagourtzis all had a long time to kill but didn't inflict too many casualties. Nikolas Cruz, Brenton Tarrant, Adam Lanza, and several others just sprayed up the place over a span of minutes within the single digits and said little.
If Columbine, Jokela, Kauhajoki, and Santa Fe were livestreamed, it would probably play out like some sort of incredibly gory end to a storyline. However, with the other shootings I mentioned, it would come off as being nothing but a quick, simple, and calculated massacre. That also has to do with how E&D, Pekka, and Pagourtzis (but not Saari) all failed to some extent despite having extra time and putting in plenty of planning. The bombs of E&D and Pagourtzis generally failed, and Pekka was unsuccessful in setting a proper fire, unlike Saari.
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Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:19 am
I think no simple livestreamed shooting could be similar to the one by Brenton Tarrant. Tarrant's one was not only filmed but almost directed although I don't really like the word because it sounds a little positive.
"Stuart Bender, a research fellow at Curtin University in Perth, noted that the use of live video as an integral part of the attacks "makes [them] a form of 'performance crime' where the act of video recording and/or streaming the violence by the perpetrator is a central component of the violence itself, rather than being incidental." "
First there was the point of view, we were forced to see the event through his point of view. Then we didn't see the shooting only, we were put in the car before the shooting, he showed the weapon to us so that we could imagine what would happen, it created almost a kind of suspense, fear, even excitation to some (given that it was posted on 8chan where many members were probably glad about it)? And he talked, he joked, he laughed so the first image we had of him was not the monstrous one. We first saw the troll and we were in the car with him. And then, obviously, the most striking element was the music, chosen to fit each step of the event as if it were a soundtrack (I used "us" and "we" but I should say "I" given that I based my post on my own experience of watching the video):
1) Serbia Strong -> We discover that something horrible will happen and yet the song sounds funny, it adds to the trolling and it creates an almost ironic contrast between the horror and the surrealism of the situation that makes us detach ourselves from the event. I was afraid and yet I couldn't help to think "Oh, that song is funny!". Silly thing to think about a song when 50 people were about to be murdered.
2) British Grenadiers -> Again, same as Serbia Strong + many people will notice the song because they know it well + military themed. He prepares himself for his "war", he parks his car and takes his weapons
3) Grün ist Ünser Fallschirm Remix -> during the shooting, military, political, choir of soldiers, as if he was not alone, as if he did this for many people, dynamic to fit the action, the shooting
4) Arthur Brown - Fire -> I think it is during the end of the shooting and when he drives away. "I am the god of hell fire, and I bring you! / Fire, I'll take you to burn. [...] / I'll see you burn! / Fire, to destroy all you've done. / Fire, to end all you've become. / I'll feel you burn" I think it is self-explanatory.
5) Gas Gas Gas -> drives away from the mosque, speeds up, we hear some police cars, almost like in a movie or video game, tension: Will he get arrested?
Given that the video was seen by many, gained many attraction and that even the songs used became famous, I wouldn't be surprised if other mass shooters will now try to live-stream and especially "direct" their video too. Unfortunately I am sure some of them are already thinking about their soundtrack...
LPorter101 Top 10 Contributor
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Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:11 pm
Another "Oh, crap" moment for me was when I realized that I had interacted with Adam Lanza on the old board. Knowing that I had made a connection - however tenuous and impersonal - with a guy who ended up killing a bunch of six-year-olds was deeply unsettling. It took all the fun out of it.
Part of me has always had a "It was all for the lulz" sense about Columbine. There is something darkly comic about the sheer grandiosity of Eric and Dylan's demented dreams. At times I see them as nothing more than a couple of stupid kids playing with fire, toying with forces beyond their control or comprehension. But I'm just enough of a misanthrope to appreciate their sheer contempt for humanity.
When I was 17 years old - half a lifetime ago - I, too, masked my deep-seated feelings of self-loathing behind a thin veneer of smug superiority. I kept telling myself that I was the only "self-aware" kid in a vast hive of mindless drones. I never had strong homicidal or suicidal impulses*, but I loathed most of my classmates and I hated going to school.
The part of me that wants to make excuses for Eric and Dylan is still convinced that, at some level, they truly didn't understand the true magnitude of what they were doing. They compartmentalized their thoughts and actions to such a degree that they could convince themselves that going NBK was really just a LARP of Doom.
But, as I said earlier, I can make excuses and joke around about 4/20 because a) I've never had to look at their carnage first-hand, and b) I don't feel that I had anything at all to do with it.
With Sandy Hook, it's different. On an intellectual level, I find the massacre interesting. (It doesn't fascinate me the way that NBK did so for many years, but neither does any other massacre that I've studied.) But on an emotional level, I feel a real personal connection to it. I know that Adam Lanza read things that I wrote. I spent *a lot* of time on the board during the years that he was active. I can't help but wonder whether something I wrote had even a tiny bit of influence on his decision to kill.
The thought that a future killer is reading these words right now, thinking, "One day, you will be saying the same thing about me," is pretty fucking terrifying. It's one of the main reasons why I've kind of disconnected from this board, why I don't want to form any strong associations here. I like to hang out by the fire, but I've been burned too many times to want to get too close to the flame.
tl;dr Don't kill anyone, please.
*I used to fantasize about doing this to people:
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QuestionMark Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 4349 Contribution Points : 120928 Forum Reputation : 3191 Join date : 2017-09-04
Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:08 pm
LPorter101 wrote:
Another "Oh, crap" moment for me was when I realized that I had interacted with Adam Lanza on the old board. Knowing that I had made a connection - however tenuous and impersonal - with a guy who ended up killing a bunch of six-year-olds was deeply unsettling.
I know how it feels. I hardly interacted with Atchison at all (in fact I believe I had only ever talked with him once before the shooting), but after I learned who it was, it kind of fucked me up for a little bit. I can't imagine how people who've known him and talked with him for much longer must feel.
_________________ "My guns are the only things that haven't stabbed me in the back." -Kip Kinkel
Guest Guest
Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:32 pm
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Did you ever see the Vester Flanagan footage? That was also firsthand footage of a mass shooting, if you view three people being shot with two dead along with the suicide of the perpetrator as a mass shooting. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
justwatching
Posts : 23 Contribution Points : 50342 Forum Reputation : 50 Join date : 2019-02-12 Age : 25
Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:12 am
As it has been said, it is one thing to know that the person did, another thing is to see even the act, to kill people. If they had recorded the shooting in the library and I saw, for me they would just be monsters. but since there is no such video (although the audio in the library is terrifying), I can see them beyond that. But I also feel bad for it, because at the end of the day they killed innocent people and sometimes I put myself in the place of those who were killed and I feel bad for having so much curiosity and sometimes "understanding" for eric and dylan
Guest Guest
Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:17 am
justwatching wrote:
If they had recorded the shooting in the library and I saw, for me they would just be monsters. but since there is no such video (although the audio in the library is terrifying), I can see them beyond that.
I agree and I wonder what is the limit for seeing beyond something bad? Because obviously no-one is only black or only white, but sometimes I feel that when the bad things done are too bad and too numerous, mentioning the few good things that have been done is already starting to diminish the gravity of the bad things. Warning, Godwin's law! Let's take the most evil of them all as an example: Nazis. I think it is important to know the few good things done by Hitler and Nazis if you are interested in history because this is facts, but if you tell them in a documentary open to all along facts about the Shoah, I'm not sure it is good for children because they could be influenced and think: "It was not that bad."
Guest Guest
Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:57 pm
Tbh I would STILL watch it
V. Pascow
Posts : 68 Contribution Points : 50335 Forum Reputation : 55 Join date : 2019-04-19
Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:07 pm
I hate to be that guy but seeing these videos doesn't really effect me at all. I guess that's the price you pay for being aware that humans are inherently evil. People are gonna kill, people are gonna die. I mean sure, there was a "holy shit" feeling while watching the NZ video but other than that, not really. We're all just matter floating through the universe waiting to fizz out. No use in attaching emotions to things you cannot stop nor even begin to fathom. That's just my radical opinion though.
V. Pascow
Posts : 68 Contribution Points : 50335 Forum Reputation : 55 Join date : 2019-04-19
Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:09 pm
The one and only video that has ever made me legitimately saddened was the 9/11 jumpers video. The next event that made me sad was Sandy Hook, but that event more or less killed my remaining belief in God so there's that.
bradt93
Posts : 721 Contribution Points : 91581 Forum Reputation : 255 Join date : 2016-12-21 Location : United States
Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:53 am
I wonder if Eric and Dylan were old fashioned and would have liked today's technology?
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Adzybear
Posts : 169 Contribution Points : 61386 Forum Reputation : 100 Join date : 2018-06-30 Age : 44 Location : UK
Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:13 pm
bradt93 wrote:
I wonder if Eric and Dylan were old fashioned and would have liked today's technology?
That question would deserve its own thread.
I wonder this too though
QuestionMark Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 4349 Contribution Points : 120928 Forum Reputation : 3191 Join date : 2017-09-04
Subject: Re: If E&D had livestreamed Columbine... Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:37 am
Guest wrote:
The main differences are that E&D committed a 49 minute shooting with 13 deaths not blatantly done in the name of a certain ideology.
Now, Tarrant murdered around 40 people in a span of roughly 7 minutes while saying almost nothing during the actual shooting.
Honestly the former would be a hell of a lot worse to stomach than Tarrant's video. The sheer length of Eric and Dylan's kill spree would already make squeamish viewers squirm, now couple that with the fact that Eric and Dylan were sadistically taunting victims who were writhing in pain from injuries they had inflicted the whole time.
If you've ever seen the video of the Dnepropetrovsk maniacs (3 guys 1 hammer) you'll get a much better idea of what Columbine was like than the Tarrant video. I can't speak any Russian or Ukrainian, but the genuine laughter and smiles those killers displayed while bludgeoning and stabbing a guy for six minutes straight speaks volumes.
_________________ "My guns are the only things that haven't stabbed me in the back." -Kip Kinkel