Isla Vista University Shooting 05/23/13

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A video the Shooter posted on Youtube:

Transcript of the Video:

"Hi, Elliot Rodger here. Well, this is my last video. It all has to come to this. Tomorrow is the day of retribution, the day I will have my revenge against humanity, against all of you.

For the last eight years of my life, since I hit puberty, I’ve been forced to endure an existence of loneliness, rejection and unfulfilled desires, all because girls have never been attracted to me. Girls gave their affection and sex and love to other men, never to me.

I’m 22 years old and still a virgin, never even kissed a girl. And through college, 2 1/2 years, more than that actually, I’m still a virgin. It has been very torturous.

College is the time when everyone experiences those things such as sex and fun and pleasure. In those years I’ve had to rot in loneliness, it’s not fair.

You girls have never been attracted to me. I don’t know why you girls aren’t attracted to me but I will punish you all for it. It’s an injustice, a crime because I don’t know what you don’t see in me, I’m the perfect guy and yet you throw yourselves at all these obnoxious men instead of me, the supreme gentleman. I will punish all of you for it. [laughs]

On the day of retribution, I am going to enter the hottest sorority house at UCSB and I will slaughter every single spoiled, stuck-up, blond slut I see inside there. All those girls I’ve desired so much. They have all rejected me and looked down on me as an inferior man if I ever made a sexual advance toward them, while they throw themselves at these obnoxious brutes.

I take great pleasure in slaughtering all of you., You will finally see that I am, in truth, the superior one, the true alpha male. [laughs] Yes, after I have annihilated every single girl in the sorority house, I’ll take to the streets of Isla Vista and slay every single person I see there. All those popular kids who live such lives of hedonistic pleasure while I’ve had to rot in loneliness all these years. They all look down upon me every time I tried to join them, they’ve all treated me like a mouse.

Well, now I will be a god compared to you, you will all be animals, you are animals and I will slaughter you like animals. I’ll be a god exacting my retribution on all those who deserve it and you do deserve it just for the crime of living a better life than me.

The popular kids, you never accepted me and now you will all pay for it. Girls, all I ever wanted was to love you, be loved by you. I wanted a girlfriend. I wanted sex, love, affection, adoration.

You think I’m unworthy of you. That’s I crime I can never get over. If I can’t have you girls, I will destroy you. [laughs] You denied me a happy life and in turn I will deny all of you life, it’s only fair. I hate all of you.

Humanity is a disgusting, wretched, depraved species. If I had it in my power I would stop at nothing to reduce every single one of you to mountains of skulls and rivers of blood and rightfully so. You deserve to be annihilated and I will give that to you. You never showed me any mercy so I will show you none. [laughs]

You forced me to suffer all my life, now I will make you all suffer. I waited a long time for this. I’ll give you exactly what you deserve, all of you. All you girls who rejected me, looked down upon me, you know, treated me like scum while you gave yourselves to other men. And all of you men for living a better life than me, all of you sexually active men. I hate you. I hate all of you. I can’t wait to give you exactly what you deserve, annihilation.”

He sounds so programmed and detached.

At this time, to me, that indicates that he was truly void of any semblance of emotion, or on the other extreme end of the spectrum, this was an act.

There is just something so "rehearsed" about this, and the fact that he comes from a family that has ties in Hollywood/films makes that element even more curious to me.

But again, if someone can garner the mindset to do such a thing, they are completely "switched off" mentally and emotionally, and that is why they would sound like that.

I have known an immense number of incredibly disturbed, shattered people throughout almost all of my life, and I have known severe drug users for more than half of my life. The things I have witnessed them do, and the things that have come out of their mouths are indescribable. However, none of them ever sounded as removed as this guy. Not one of them.

When I say these different people I have known were messed up, I mean they were utterly and entirely out of their minds, often on drugs or desperate to get their drugs, or they were just completely destroyed souls for other reasons-- who were losing all contact with reality. But not one of them ever sounded like this; that tone he has.

I wonder if this soulless, switched off, checked out, completely disconnected tone was similar to how Dylan and Eric sounded during the massacre.

It's insane how he sounds like a mash-up of Dylan and Eric. Revenge against wretched humanity, popular kids/girls rejecting him, how he's a supreme human being, a god compared to them etc etc. Even his fake laughter sounds like Dylan's in the Radioactive clothes video.

Hale-Bopp wrote:

A graphic Elliot Rodger posted somewhere:

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His voice definitive is odd, yes. And his laughter sounds very fake, like he wanted to imitate a sinister evil mastermind laughter from a movie.

Hi, Thanks for starting this thread.

Where do you have this graphic from? Can you post a link?

Here is a link to the full retribution video: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] (The one you posted is only 6.25 long and this here is 6.56.)

This guy also posted his manifesto called "My Twisted World": [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

And his youtube [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and his facebook [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] are still up.

Dunkelziffer wrote:

Hale-Bopp wrote:

A graphic Elliot Rodger posted somewhere:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


His voice definitive is odd, yes. And his laughter sounds very fake, like he wanted to imitate a sinister evil mastermind laughter from a movie.

Hi, Thanks for starting this thread.

Where do you have this graphic from? Can you post a link?

Here is a link to the full retribution video: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] (The one you posted is only 6.25 long and this here is 6.56.)

This guy also posted his manifesto called "My Twisted World": [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

And his youtube [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and his facebook [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] are still up.

Its from this article: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

And thanks for the other links!

I now came across several articles who say, that Elliot Rodger had Asperger. That may be the reason for his unusual voice.

I watched a few of his videos this afternoon.

The way he talks in the park and the first part of the golf course video did make me feel quite bad for him. Quite bad indeed.

Radioactive_Clothing wrote:

I watched a few of his videos this afternoon.

The way he talks in the park and the first part of the golf course video did make me feel quite bad for him. Quite bad indeed.

I felt the same way especially when he mentions how incredibly lonely he is. And how his life is filled with misery.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone see any similarities between him and E/D? I think his deep longing to find love, a girlfriend, companionship sounded very similar to Dylan. He was a virgin who never kissed anyone and it wouldn't surprise me if Dylan never kissed anyone either. Plus he ranted about how much he hated humanity, how he was superior to his classmates and wanted revenge which also reminded me of E/D.

CatherineM813 wrote:

Radioactive_Clothing wrote:

I watched a few of his videos this afternoon.

The way he talks in the park and the first part of the golf course video did make me feel quite bad for him. Quite bad indeed.

I felt the same way especially when he mentions how incredibly lonely he is. And how his life is filled with misery.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone see any similarities between him and E/D? I think his deep longing to find love, a girlfriend, companionship sounded very similar to Dylan. He was a virgin who never kissed anyone and it wouldn't surprise me if  Dylan never kissed anyone either. Plus he ranted  about how much he hated humanity, how he was superior to his classmates and wanted revenge which also reminded me of E/D.

Yes, he has some similarities with them. But for some reason, I don't believe E+D did behave that awkward...sure, the only possibility to really know this would be too see the Basement Tapes. But in his "Why do girls hate me?"-Video, Elliot simply appears so totally out of it. He behaves like he is acting really bad, but at the same time, he seems to have no awareness about how bizarre his way of talking is. Especially, when he tries to be arrogant or gives his strange villain-laughter. I don't know if this was because of Aspergers or something else, but he seems really, really odd for me. I still feel sorry for him.

I've read some of his manifesto.  He was a vile piece of garbage, and I don't feel one ounce of sympathy for him.

I feel so bad for this guy, thats what rejection from the society does and is very sad. I am also agree about how he awkward and odd he spoke in the video and acted, it seems a bit rehearsed too or at least already thought but it could be for the awareness of his voice. I find similarities with Eric and Dylan too, specially with Eric because this guy seemed to have the same narcissistic problem that Eric had and that is a result of the same rejection that they have experienced, also I find similarities with the sex situation and women rejection because Eric and Dylan went through the same. But two of the three victims already identified are girls and I wouldnt be surprise if most of the 6 victims are girls and the targets while the shooting was happening were girls as resentment for the things that he said on the video, while Eric andn Dylan targeted everybody on the shooting. Of course, I am only speculating but it really wouldnt surprise me at all because I feel, with the graphic that he made and the things that said, that it could be possible.

He talks about wanting to murder his little brother because the thought of his little brother having a more successful life than him is too much.

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sergeant hartman wrote:

I've read some of his manifesto.  He was a vile piece of garbage, and I don't feel one ounce of sympathy for him.

I agree with you about him being a vile piece of garbage.

I'm not sure what it was in his videos that made me feel bad on him. I'd guess it was just with the way he talked and what he (excluding the murderous comments) said enabled me to see why people didn't want anything to do with him. And that makes me sad and a little disappointed in myself for thinking that way.

The complete manifesto:

Manifesto

Right now, I'm reading his manifesto. And wow, he sounds so insane and obsessed with sex..

I can't say that I feel bad for this guy.

Is it me or is this Eric Harris 2.0?

Coincidence?
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JDM87 wrote:

Is it me or is this Eric Harris 2.0?

They're similar in some ways. I'd be ready to believe Rodger copied straight from Eric Harris' ideas with the manifesto and the videos like many shooters have done before. The ranting about women and people who don't deserve to live, the narcissistic anger, the morning ride video even (although that one was Dylan's).

Only thing is, no doubt Eric and Dylan would have thought his music choice ''really gay''. Whitney Houston? George Michael? There sure are similarities between the two, some of them may even be calculated to appear like Eric. Other than that, the two stand apart in tastes and personality. And they don't have the same family background nor did they run in the same circles (Hollywood, etc.).

I didn't read too far into his Manifesto yet, but he certainly starts to give me an Eric-like vibe now, in the way he speaks about his childhood.

Here's some information about the victims:
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Yes Eric and Rodger are kind of similar, but I watched his videos today and although both were narsisistic and suffered of women's rejection, I notice that while Eric's anger was against everybody and always complained about the rejection from everybody that he was suffering, Rodger was more superficial and complained more in his videos about the "gorgeous blonde" girls that ignored him and the "loser" guys that have a girlfriend while he that is so "awesome" doesnt. Eric complained about women's rejection too but not always like him, he could had a resentment against everyone too but specially in those blonde girls that didnt want to be with him. Also, I am agree, their taste in music are too different and for Eric and Dylan, he could be very "gay".

JayJay wrote:

Only thing is, no doubt Eric and Dylan would have thought his music choice ''really gay''. Whitney Houston? George Michael? There sure are similarities between the two, some of them may even be calculated to appear like Eric. Other than that, the two stand apart in tastes and personality. And they don't have the same family background nor did they run in the same circles (Hollywood, etc.).

True. Rodger's aggression and hatred bear many parallel's to Eric Harris', but it seemed to nothing more than a play. His giggle/laugh was clearly put on. Eric's hatred was more pure, especially in the Hitmen for Hire video when he's ranting. Either way, RIP to the victims of the incident.

...So 7 people, including this "Supreme Gentleman" had to die, because he couldn't get it through his thick head that girls aren't obligated to have sex with him? Why the hell is anyone supporting this guy? I'm pretty sure if he didn't do the shooting, everyone would just laugh at him for being another whiny white boy who cries about the friendzone and how he's a "nice guy".
"If I can’t have you girls, I will destroy you. [laughs]"
Yep, what a nice guy over here. Apparently, it's a crime for girls to say no to people they aren't interested in. Men can sleep peacefully at night, even when saying no, and women get stabbed or shot.
I bet he wouldn't have been a possessive, abusive boyfriend even if someone came to love him. Nope, not at all! He couldn't even wait a few more years for some girl to come along, so instead, he gunned down a few people and then committed suicide.
Plus, his manifesto sounds so poorly written. You can clearly see he was trying to sound evil but he failed at that too. I have no idea why he's being compared to E&D. Even Eric & Dylan were a bit more honest than that. Better writers, higher intelligence. The only thing they all had in common was being downright sexist.
In short, I hope rigor mortis gets him right in the dick. (As well as other parts of his body while he rots.)

Lananas wrote:

...So 7 people, including this "Supreme Gentleman" had to die, because he couldn't get it through his thick head that girls aren't obligated to have sex with him? Why the hell is anyone supporting this guy? I'm pretty sure if he didn't do the shooting, everyone would just laugh at him for being another whiny white boy who cries about the friendzone and how he's a "nice guy".
"If I can’t have you girls, I will destroy you. [laughs]"
Yep, what a nice guy over here. Apparently, it's a crime for girls to say no to people they aren't interested in. Men can sleep peacefully at night, even when saying no, and women get stabbed or shot.
I bet he wouldn't have been a possessive, abusive boyfriend even if someone came to love him. Nope, not at all! He couldn't even wait a few more years for some girl to come along, so instead, he gunned down a few people and then committed suicide.
Plus, his manifesto sounds so poorly written. You can clearly see he was trying to sound evil but he failed at that too. I have no idea why he's being compared to E&D. Even Eric & Dylan were a bit more honest than that. Better writers, higher intelligence. The only thing they all had in common was being downright sexist.
In short, I hope rigor mortis gets him right in the dick. (As well as other parts of his body while he rots.)

Where in his Manifesto does he try to sound evil? Im now at the point where he reaches puberty and until now it is a sad and intimate portray of a sensitive and lonely boy, which I can't do otherwise as of course feel sorry for. And I can't agree, that it shows no signs of intelligence, he clearly tries to give an accurate picture of the circumstances, which he feels to be as causes for his development. For example, I definitive think he has a point in stating that children usually treat each other equal and fair, while this condition gets lost as soon as puberty takes the lead.
And sure he was not "nice". Mass Shooters are not nice per definition, because murdering other people isn't exactly an expression of altruism and kindness. But I don't see how he is in any form any more assholish than all these other perpetrators, just because his hate was centered around women, rather than against mankind, society etc.
I can only imagine how it must feel, to be a virgin or to have never kissed a girl at the age of 22, when it is something you desire with such an intense. Sure, girls were not obligated to have sex with him. But were the kids at Columbine obligated to like or accept Eric and Dylan? No. But I bet most people would agree with me, that they can understand the level of hurt it must have caused for Eric and Dylan.

Does this sound for you, like the writings of someone who simply "couldn't get in his head, that girls didnt want to fuck him"?
For me it does sound like the writing of someone, who clearly had an obvious and severe disorder:

Elliot Rodger wrote:

At this camp, an incident happened that would scar me for life. The first time that I was treated badly by a girl occurred at this camp. I was innocently playing with the friends I made, and they were tickling me, something people always did because I was very ticklish. I accidently bumped into a pretty girl the same age as me, and she got very angry. She cursed at me and pushed me, embarrassing me in front of my friends. I didn’t know who this girl was... She was only at Pinecrest for summer camp... But she was very pretty, and she was taller than me. I immediately froze up and went into a state of shock. One of my friends asked me if I was ok, and I didn’t answer. I remained very quiet for the rest of the day.

I couldn’t believe what had happened. Cruel treatment from women is ten times worse than from men. It made me feel like an insignificant, unworthy little mouse. I felt so small and vulnerable. I couldn’t believe that this girl was so horrible to me, and I thought that it was because she viewed me as a loser. That was the first experience of female cruelty I endured, and it traumatized me to no end. It made me even more nervous around girls, and I would be extremely weary and cautious of them from that point on.

George Sodini

Marc Lépine (born Gamil Rodrigue Liass Gharbi)

Elliot Rodger

All 3 of these shooters were driven by their hatred for women

sororityalpha wrote:

George Sodini

Marc Lépine (born Gamil Rodrigue Liass Gharbi)

Elliot Rodger

All 3 of these shooters were driven by their hatred for women

Yes, I see alot of resemblance between this guy and George Sodini. I believe we have spoken about one attributes of most spree killers is the desire to be loved/have sex yet unable to achieve it as a factor is the shooting.

Harris
Klebold
Cho
Sodini
Rodger

I am sure there are more, but off the top of my head these all come to mind.

I once tried to collect all information about Mass Shooters and Love/Sex/Girls, I could find. Of course, the list is still incomplete, since you could include basically every Mass Shooter in it. I don't think there is a single one, who did not experience a great amount of frustration in that field:

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Just thought this was worth a mention. Not sure if any Brits saw the 6 o'clock news tonight but there was a short interview with Coni Sanders (Dave Sanders daughter) The segment was mainly talking about failures in the mental health treatment and mass shooters.

Hale-Bopp wrote:

Its from this article: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

And thanks for the other links!

Thank you for the link!

I think he either was a homosexual or bisexual and that he hated that so much about himself that he would try to surpress these feelings. So maybe he didnt hate girls at all but just wouldnt admit the fact he was gay/bi and used it as a cover (since the majority of his victims were male)

I don't think he was homosexual. I've read through most of the manifesto and he never once mentions attraction to any man. He also seems to have a very specific type of girl that he wanted. He always mentions hot blondes. Maybe a not as hot brunette could have liked him but he never gave them a chance. This guy was very self absorbed and I believe that is what led him to not having many friends. He made some bad choices in life and blames everyone else. I don't have much sympathy for him.

Like I've said he might be bisexual, ofcourse I could be wrong but I think he was bi and emberassed of it thats why he didnt mentioned it in his manifesto.

chachernov wrote:

Like I've said he might be bisexual, ofcourse I could be wrong but I think he was bi and emberassed of it thats why he didnt mentioned it in his manifesto.

What makes you think that? I don't see any indication for that at all.

Hale-Bopp wrote:

chachernov wrote:

Like I've said he might be bisexual, ofcourse I could be wrong but I think he was bi and emberassed of it thats why he didnt mentioned it in his manifesto.

What makes you think that? I don't see any indication for that at all.

If you watch carefully how he talks, acts and even how he dresses you can clearly see lots of signs (none of these things alone but combined).

chachernov wrote:

Hale-Bopp wrote:

chachernov wrote:

Like I've said he might be bisexual, ofcourse I could be wrong but I think he was bi and emberassed of it thats why he didnt mentioned it in his manifesto.

What makes you think that? I don't see any indication for that at all.

If you watch carefully how he talks, acts and even how he dresses you can clearly see lots of signs (none of these things alone but combined).

Sexual orientation isn't determined by the way you talk/act/dress. E.g. not all homosexuals are sassy, effeminate and obsessed with fashion. Sometimes it's as hard to see as mental illness, when they don't tell you.

Lananas wrote:

chachernov wrote:

Hale-Bopp wrote:

chachernov wrote:

Like I've said he might be bisexual, ofcourse I could be wrong but I think he was bi and emberassed of it thats why he didnt mentioned it in his manifesto.

What makes you think that? I don't see any indication for that at all.

If you watch carefully how he talks, acts and even how he dresses you can clearly see lots of signs (none of these things alone but combined).

Sexual orientation isn't determined by the way you talk/act/dress. E.g. not all homosexuals are sassy, effeminate and obsessed with fashion. Sometimes it's as hard to see as mental illness, when they don't tell you.

If you know where to pay attention to you can see/notice their sexuality. I'm btw not the only one who thinks this, you can find plenty of articles and youtube videos on this subject.

chachernov wrote:

Hale-Bopp wrote:

chachernov wrote:

Like I've said he might be bisexual, ofcourse I could be wrong but I think he was bi and emberassed of it thats why he didnt mentioned it in his manifesto.

What makes you think that? I don't see any indication for that at all.

If you watch carefully how he talks, acts and even how he dresses you can clearly see lots of signs (none of these things alone but combined).

I think the way how he talks, acts is sometimes very awkward (like in the "Why girls hate me?" video), but not homosexual at all. From personal experience, I would say that a lot of male homosexuals (my mother works in a theatre and a high amount of actors there are homosexual) have a certain way of how they are behave in social situations (very expressive, kind of binged up and also somewhat feminine). But as I already mentioned, most homosexual people I met were actors and I would bet, that this kind of behaviour is more common among homosexual actors than homosexual people, who are not actors.
At the other hand, I also know a few male homosexuals who are not actors and they show the same kind of behaviour- but they do it rarely and only under certain circumstances (like when they are drunken). So I wouldn't be surprised if a great majority of male homosexuals behave like this in social interaction.

However, the way Elliot behaves and talks is in no way similar to the behaviour of these homosexuals. He is not expressive at all, he is quite the opposite: affect and voice are flat and monotonous. He also does not appear binged up or feminine to me.
I did notice, that his behaviour appears odd, but I think the reasons for that are more likely his Asperger and possibly a great deal of narcissism.

Hale-Bopp wrote:

chachernov wrote:

Hale-Bopp wrote:

chachernov wrote:

Like I've said he might be bisexual, ofcourse I could be wrong but I think he was bi and emberassed of it thats why he didnt mentioned it in his manifesto.

What makes you think that? I don't see any indication for that at all.

If you watch carefully how he talks, acts and even how he dresses you can clearly see lots of signs (none of these things alone but combined).

I think the way how he talks, acts is sometimes very awkward (like in the "Why girls hate me?" video), but not homosexual at all. From personal experience, I would say that a lot of male homosexuals (my mother works in a theatre and a high amount of actors there are homosexual) have a certain way how they are behave in social situations (very expressive, kind of binged up and also somewhat feminine). But as I already mentioned, most homosexual people I met were actors and I would bet, that this kind of behaviour is more common among homosexual actors than homosexual people, who are not actors.
At the other hand, I also a few male homosexuals who are not actors and they show the same kind of behaviour- but they do it rarely and only under certain circumstances (like when they are drunken). So I wouldn't be surprised if a great majority of male homosexuals behave like this in social interaction.

However, the way Elliot behaves and talks is in no way similar to the behaviour of these homosexuals. He is not expressive at all, he is quite the opposite: affect and voice and flat and monotonous. He also does not appear binged up or feminine to me.
I did notice, that his behaviour appears odd, but I think the reasons for that are more likely his Asperger and possibly a great deal of narcissism.

You bring up very interesting points, maybe you're right.

Lananas wrote:

...So 7 people, including this "Supreme Gentleman" had to die, because he couldn't get it through his thick head that girls aren't obligated to have sex with him? Why the hell is anyone supporting this guy? I'm pretty sure if he didn't do the shooting, everyone would just laugh at him for being another whiny white boy who cries about the friendzone and how he's a "nice guy".
"If I can’t have you girls, I will destroy you. [laughs]"
Yep, what a nice guy over here. Apparently, it's a crime for girls to say no to people they aren't interested in. Men can sleep peacefully at night, even when saying no, and women get stabbed or shot.
I bet he wouldn't have been a possessive, abusive boyfriend even if someone came to love him. Nope, not at all! He couldn't even wait a few more years for some girl to come along, so instead, he gunned down a few people and then committed suicide.
Plus, his manifesto sounds so poorly written. You can clearly see he was trying to sound evil but he failed at that too. I have no idea why he's being compared to E&D. Even Eric & Dylan were a bit more honest than that. Better writers, higher intelligence. The only thing they all had in common was being downright sexist.
In short, I hope rigor mortis gets him right in the dick. (As well as other parts of his body while he rots.)

Is this really necessary to say? This guy is dead so if you wanted him dead, you got what you wanted. I guess I wonder why that can't be enough? And we all know what happens to a deceased body unless it is cremated. It starts to decay so if he was buried, then rigor mortis will get him along with everyone else who has died again unless they were cremated. I also feel sorry for this guy. What he did was awful and wrong and tragic. But I can only imagine what a dark mental place he was in to go through with something like this. I think that like Cho, he probably totally lost it mentally.

Peter Langmans opinion about Elliot Rodger: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Hale-Bopp wrote:

Peter Langmans opinion about Elliot Rodger: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Very interesting. I agree with what he had to say. Thanks for sharing!

I'm in the midst of reading Rodger's manifesto. It's crazy how vividly he remembers his entire life. I can hardly remember what I did two days ago. What I wrote initially was quite harsh, as it was in a flash of anger. I'll use that as a reminder to look deeper into things before making any statements.

As I go deeper into the manifesto, I find that there wasn't only something wrong with Rodger, but the society we're living in.

We teach girls that they're only good for certain jobs, pregnancy, and sex. People say they're the weaker gender, and that they're too emotional to be in power. However, there are awful messages sent out to boys as well.

They can't cry, they have to be manly, and if they're a virgin after 18 they're losers. If you're in sports it has to be a "masculine" one like football or basketball. At age 10, kids in Rodger's camp cabin already started swooning over scantily clad girls in magazines. If that's not a sign that society is teaching young boys that they have to be promiscuous and like girls to stay the "alpha male" they should be, then I don't know what is.

Lananas wrote:

I'm in the midst of reading Rodger's manifesto. It's crazy how vividly he remembers his entire life. I can hardly remember what I did two days ago. What I wrote initially was quite harsh, as it was in a flash of anger. I'll use that as a reminder to look deeper into things before making any statements.

As I go deeper into the manifesto, I find that there wasn't only something wrong with Rodger, but the society we're living in.

We teach girls that they're only good for certain jobs, pregnancy, and sex. People say they're the weaker gender, and that they're too emotional to be in power. However, there are awful messages sent out to boys as well.

They can't cry, they have to be manly, and if they're a virgin after 18 they're losers. If you're in sports it has to be a "masculine" one like football or basketball. At age 10, kids in Rodger's camp cabin already started swooning over scantily clad girls in magazines. If that's not a sign that society is teaching young boys that they have to be promiscuous and like girls to stay the "alpha male" they should be, then I don't know what is.

Hmm, I don't agree about the part with girls. I don't know how it is in America, but feminism is quite mainstream in Germany, to the point that it is a taboo to speak against it. In school they are definitive not encouraged to engage in traditional roles.
Also, judging from the media (TV shows, movies etc.) I know from the USA, it does appear to me that american media have a similar positive attitude towards feminism. Can you mention me an example for an American TV show or an American movie who is portraying women in a way contrary to feminism? I can't.
I believe it would make no sense for society to teach women to adopt roles contrary to feminism, since feminism in necessary for modern society (employers need females as workers, Universities need females as students etc.) Rather I think it makes sense for society to teach women to believe that the way they are raised is contrary to feminism, since that will encourage them to support feminism and adopt this attitude in their private life.
I will write more about the man-issue later.

Hale-Bopp wrote:

Lananas wrote:

I'm in the midst of reading Rodger's manifesto. It's crazy how vividly he remembers his entire life. I can hardly remember what I did two days ago. What I wrote initially was quite harsh, as it was in a flash of anger. I'll use that as a reminder to look deeper into things before making any statements.

As I go deeper into the manifesto, I find that there wasn't only something wrong with Rodger, but the society we're living in.

We teach girls that they're only good for certain jobs, pregnancy, and sex. People say they're the weaker gender, and that they're too emotional to be in power. However, there are awful messages sent out to boys as well.

They can't cry, they have to be manly, and if they're a virgin after 18 they're losers. If you're in sports it has to be a "masculine" one like football or basketball. At age 10, kids in Rodger's camp cabin already started swooning over scantily clad girls in magazines. If that's not a sign that society is teaching young boys that they have to be promiscuous and like girls to stay the "alpha male" they should be, then I don't know what is.

Hmm, I don't agree about the part with girls. I don't know how it is in America, but feminism is quite mainstream in Germany, to the point that it is a taboo to speak against it. In school they are definitive not encouraged to engage in traditional roles.
Also, judging from the media (TV shows, movies etc.) I know from the USA, it does appear to me that american media have a similar positive attitude towards feminism. Can you mention me an example for an American TV show or an American movie who is portraying women in a way contrary to feminism? I can't.
I believe it would make no sense for society to teach women to adopt roles contrary to feminism, since feminism in necessary for modern society (employers need females as workers, Universities need females as students etc.) Rather I think it makes sense for society to teach women to believe that the way they are raised is contrary to feminism, since that will encourage them to support feminism and adopt this attitude in their private life.
I will write more about the man-issue later.

Ah, I apologize. I meant that girls were being taught that for a very long time. Though it's getting better now, there are still people who think of women in that negative way. At least that's the case here.

Lananas wrote:

Hale-Bopp wrote:

Lananas wrote:

I'm in the midst of reading Rodger's manifesto. It's crazy how vividly he remembers his entire life. I can hardly remember what I did two days ago. What I wrote initially was quite harsh, as it was in a flash of anger. I'll use that as a reminder to look deeper into things before making any statements.

As I go deeper into the manifesto, I find that there wasn't only something wrong with Rodger, but the society we're living in.

We teach girls that they're only good for certain jobs, pregnancy, and sex. People say they're the weaker gender, and that they're too emotional to be in power. However, there are awful messages sent out to boys as well.

They can't cry, they have to be manly, and if they're a virgin after 18 they're losers. If you're in sports it has to be a "masculine" one like football or basketball. At age 10, kids in Rodger's camp cabin already started swooning over scantily clad girls in magazines. If that's not a sign that society is teaching young boys that they have to be promiscuous and like girls to stay the "alpha male" they should be, then I don't know what is.

Hmm, I don't agree about the part with girls. I don't know how it is in America, but feminism is quite mainstream in Germany, to the point that it is a taboo to speak against it. In school they are definitive not encouraged to engage in traditional roles.
Also, judging from the media (TV shows, movies etc.) I know from the USA, it does appear to me that american media have a similar positive attitude towards feminism. Can you mention me an example for an American TV show or an American movie who is portraying women in a way contrary to feminism? I can't.
I believe it would make no sense for society to teach women to adopt roles contrary to feminism, since feminism in necessary for modern society (employers need females as workers, Universities need females as students etc.) Rather I think it makes sense for society to teach women to believe that the way they are raised is contrary to feminism, since that will encourage them to support feminism and adopt this attitude in their private life.
I will write more about the man-issue later.

Ah, I apologize. I meant that girls were being taught that for a very long time. Though it's getting better now, there are still people who think of women in that negative way. At least that's the case here.

Although girls are now taught to be as powerful as men and have more opportunities, many people still expect that they get married and get pregnant and many others still see them as human beings only good for sex or for cook, television also portray the women as an sexual object sometimes and many of the things Ive seen about it on tv, are from The United States and all over the world. Rodger is a victim of this society full of contradictions and cliche, like many other people and is very sad, because the system and society teach us to live like everybody and do what everybody do, the system wants to control us and the society participate in that. Thats why I dont understand the people that condemn other kind of people like Elliot Rodger when they are responsible of that and must wonder what they are doing wrong as a community that now are young men killing and planning massacres and I dont understand why everyone talk about feminism or how the women is suppose to have the same chances that men and should take advantage of that and later they are supporting stuff where the women is portray as a princess or something very superficial and sexual.

Sometimes, the traditional idea's about gender roles, still appear in society, yes. But I think this is not because they are taught by society, but because they are remnants of the past. A cultural tradition, that was active over a span of thousands of years, does not disappear in a few decades, though it can get damaged.

In case of the traditional role of men, I think that the media is more likely to portray it a positive light, simply because this role is not as inconsistent with the needs of modern civilization as the traditional role of women is. Like I wrote before, modern civilization needs women to be feminists, since they need women to be active in education and work. Modern civilization also needs traditional family structures to be weakened, because it needs people to be dependent on the system and strong family boundaries would make families more independent. Modern civilization however, does not care if men are dominant machos or "modern men", since this is irrelevant to the system.

However, besides the influence of media, I think the strongest factor for men to behave in accord to the traditional role, is simply that women encourage them to do. Feminism changed the way how women work, born and raise children, engage in sexual acts etc. It did rarely change the way women choose partners. Women still prefer dominant, self-confident, "bad boy" men, even those who consider themselves feminists. And of course they send a message to men with this: "If you want to be sexually and/or romantically successful, you have to fit the traditional role for men. You have to be dominant, self-confident and in cases of doubt you should tend to be indifferent towards womens emotions etc."
I find it very funny, that feminists talk a lot about "patriarchy" and the way media/society teaches men to behave, but always fail to acknowledge the impact it has to men when they see which kind of males women choose to have relationships and/or sex with.
You could say that women are simply attracted to the kind of men, media and society teaches them to be worthy, but I think the reason for this behaviour are more likely to be evolutionary than a result of upbringing.

Hale-Bopp wrote:

Sometimes, the traditional idea's about gender roles, still appear in society, yes. But I think this is not because they are taught by society, but because they are remnants of the past. A cultural tradition, that was active over a span of thousands of years, does not disappear in a few decades, though it can get damaged.

In case of the traditional role of men, I think that the media is more likely to portray it a positive light, simply because this role is not as inconsistent with the needs of modern civilization as the traditional role of women is. Like I wrote before, modern civilization needs women to be feminists, since they need women to be active in education and work. Modern civilization also needs traditional family structures to be weakened, because it needs people to be dependent on the system and strong family boundaries would make families more independent. Modern civilization however, does not care if men are dominant machos or "modern men", since this is irrelevant to the system.

However, besides the influence of media, I think the strongest factor for men to behave in accord to the traditional role, is simply that women encourage them to do. Feminism changed the way how women work, born and raise children, engage in sexual acts etc. It did rarely change the way women choose partners. Women still prefer dominant, self-confident, "bad boy" men, even those who consider themselves feminists. And of course they send a message to men with this: "If you want to be sexually and/or romantically successful, you have to fit the traditional role for men. You have to be dominant, self-confident and in cases of doubt you should tend to be indifferent towards womens emotions etc."
I find it very funny, that feminists talk a lot about "patriarchy" and the way media/society teaches men to behave, but always fail to acknowledge the impact it has to men when they see which kind of males women choose to have relationships and/or sex with.
You could say that women are simply attracted to the kind of men, media and society teaches them to be worthy, but I think the reason for this behaviour are more likely to be evolutionary than a result of upbringing.

Thats a good point and I am agree. In our families and society we still find traditions from the past, is something cultural that make us to act like that, mostly because the people like to live from the past and is always thinking on the past, but I sure that in a future generation it will change, because we still can see that some things are changing, although other things not yet and we have to wait. Sadly, the superciality and cliche will stay or thats what Ive noticed and thats the problem.

Hale-Bopp wrote:

And finally....Elliot got chicks!! (Just saw a post on tumblr from a girl who writes, that he would have "dated him in a heartbeat".)

I knew this would happen. We should play a game of "How many days before a mass murderer gets fangirls". Winner gets chipotle.

A little off topic but for any members in England who are interested, there is a program about Elliot Rodger tonight on Channel 4, it's called 'The Virgin Killer' and starts at 10:05 pm.

queenfarooq wrote:

A little off topic but for any members in England who are interested, there is a program about Elliot Rodger tonight on Channel 4, it's called 'The Virgin Killer' and starts at 10:05 pm.

Can someone photoshop Elliot Rodger's head on the virgin mary because of that name?