Pure ignorance in action

1. GiuliaNovember 9, 2012 at 6:22 AM
For me, giving support for those parents is denying support for the victims. I really cannot imagine it without screaming, thinking that we want to give them the easy way out.
After all, since they raise the bloody murderer, why shouldn't be hold responsible for their child's murder ?
I cannot believe at all that they did their best to raise their child.

My childhood ex-friend has now problems with alcohol, and maybe drugs. Yet, her mother prefers smoking and spending all the money in useless stuff instead of giving her children healthy diet and finding a psychiatrist for her younger daughter (that same mother has a now 9 years old child).
Now, that same ex friend believes that she can get the easy way out and wonders why the consequence X happen and why the consequence Y happened.
Her mother didn't love her daughter no matter what my mom wants to make me believe. That mother didn't try hard to raise correctly her daughter and wonders why her oldest daughter became like she became (dropping school without even a diploma, drinking and maybe doing drugs).
I gave up with those both because they always tried to find an easy way out.
Exactly like parents of teen-murders try to get the easy way out for their teens murders.

I really have no reason to offer them the slightest compassion.
Not after those teenagers did murder other people. Victims didn't ask to die that dread day, they didn't choose to die.

Offering compassion to parents of teen-murders = denying that there are victims who didn't ask anything but living and making believe that murdering is a non-issue. It's more than an issue, it means not being a human being.
After all, why Klebold’s mother (IMO, she fakes her child's love, especially after that teen murdered without any reason) would cry because "she prayed for her son to kill himself" ? Klebold did the only reasonable action he could do after he took away lives of victims who didn't ask anything but live. The non-mother has no reason to cry because her child killed himself after he murdered other students and teachers.
There is no reason to cry for that murderer because he is not there any more and cannot kill anyone else, thanks Godness. A mother whom teenage is a murderer does not love her child and is a non-mother. Because if that non-mother really loved her son, she would had given limits and consequences to her son, brought him to a psy(-chiatrist -chologist) when the son had symptoms of mental illness, the non-mother would had really been there instead of having better do than taking care of her son.

No, sorry. I really cannot buy into such a lie. Or it means that you ask us to accept murders.
It's really beyond any reasonable request and any decency the victims deserve. Such a murderer should deserve a decency he denied to his victims ? No way, he does not deserve such a decency.
It means we can use any excuse to deny what happened. I cannot buy it, I cannot accept it and I cannot even consider it as a remote possibility.

1. GiuliaNovember 9, 2012 at 2:58 PM
Question. Who raise the kids ? Especially when they are in middle school or high school.
I doubt that they raise by themselves, unless someone can prove me otherwise.

I have never ever said that raising a kid is easy. No way I can say this.
But when a murderer is a teenager, he is still under parental responsibility unless otherwise decided by a Court.

So, in such a situation, we cannot withhold the parental responsibility.
Not only legally speaking (I am studying law, I know that the French legal system is different, but a minor is still a minor and legally, considered as incapable), but also morally speaking.

When a young adult is away for college, he is an adult legally speaking (even if morally speaking, the story is a bit different).
But when your adult child is away, he is an adult, so he is considered as capable to consent unless otherwise stated by the Court (guardianship).
So, good luck to oblige an adult to get medical care (unless if proven that he is unable to decide and dangerous for himself and the others).
After all, I cannot consider someone who murdered without legitimate defence as nothing but a garbage. I cannot consider him as a human being, only a garbage.
I am absolutely for death penalty in the case of teenage murder because those murderers are not amenable and cannot live with other human beings. Therefore, or we really lock them for all their life without possibility of parole or death penalty.

When we deal with teenage murder, we cannot consider those "parents" (I don't believe neither their love nor their pain : it's too gross to be true) because they are part of the whole package. The teenager does not raise by himself, unless you can prove me otherwise. Also, who provides a roof, food, clothes... to the teen ?
Those non-parents have no reason to drop some crocodile tears and claim their fake love for their teenage child who murdered. And if those non-parents prefer to deny their child's illness, they are absolute responsible for not providing their child the needed medical care.

I resent that we can support those non-parents. It means forgetting what happened to the victims who never asked anything, and not being dead like that.
Don't forget the victims, first and foremost.
Those non-parents are part of the whole package. We must never ever forget it, their fake pain and their crocodile tears are not acceptable.
Their teenage actions prove only that they cannot be good parents, no matter what you can sell me. Those non-parents want to drop crocodile tears and fake the pain because their aim is gaining sympathy while you forget the true victims. They play the victim whereas they try to cover up their neglect toward their teen.
Exactly like my ex-childhood friend and her mother who tried to cover up all her neglect.

You cannot live without boundaries. Not giving support to those non-parents and instead, considering that they deserve being reminded their whole responsibility even when those fake a pain they don't feel is part of my personal boundaries. Otherwise, if you cry out of fake pain from those non-parents (and even more the murderer), I can only say that I lose my sanity.
To keep my sanity, these kind of boundaries are essential. I don't buy people who pretend to suffer like those non-parents.
Offering support to them means we accept that they don't have the sense of the responsibilities.

Anyway, could it be a legal possibility to put them under guardianship, not letting a non-parent of a teenager murderer to decide anything about his life ? No possibility about his finance and assets, not deciding about his health, not deciding about how to raise his children...
Making those non-parents being minor for all their life because they didn't show any capacity to raise their child. So, they don't have the capacity to consent beyond the reasonable doubt.

The person who's debating this is doing so on the notion that everything is black and white, which is false. "Non-parent"? Now that's just messed up. That's like saying my dad doesn't love me because I got really drunk when I was seventeen and started yelling at him, so he called the cops and I was sent to jail for a day and a half and got probation for six months after. Parents can't be held fully responsible for their kids' actions because they aren't the ones making decisions as to what their kids are doing when the parents aren't around. What Eric and Dylan did was their choice, not their parents'. Their parents put them in psychiatric care, Eric's parents searched his room a few times. The whole essence of the "parents need yo tighten down on their kids, yadda yadda yadda" is based on the notion that all kids are up to no good. Granted, one is more likely to make bad decisions as a child rather than an adult, it's just ridiculous to me that our culture acts like every kid could be a potential murderer. Sorry if this is a bit incoherent, it's 11:13 where I live and I'm sleepy. That's just my two cents.

Who the fuck wrote this??

I was about to stop reading several times. Some people is very ignorant and just like to talk and talk without know nothing. Exactly what I hate.

I found this on a blog a lady runs in which she talks about raising a son that has some mental issues. Its called something like "My son with two brains". She had read "Far from the Tree" and made a post expressing sympathy for the H &K parents. Then the other poster I shared here disagreed with her and said all of the above.

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little. What a dick.

The scariest and most disheartening thing to me is that I believe that this is the way the majority of people think.

PaintItBlack wrote:

The scariest and most disheartening thing to me is that I believe that this is the way the majority of people think.

Agreed. People want everything to be black and white, and they want to assume that it can't happen to them. Never mind that there is no such as a perfect parent who has never made a mistake, and that we can't always control what our children think/do/become even with the best of intentions.

I don't blame the parents for anything related to Columbine but I really do believe that Wayne Harris should have inquired further or sought counseling for Eric when he found the pipe bomb, and all that stuff with Brooks Brown.

Yes, and most people don't have an ounce of sympathy for the loss of the H &K parents or anyone else in their situation. They refuse to see their loss as valid, when their loss is just as great as the victims families ,I think even more so because they are in a worse situation. This kind of mindset sickens me.

Wideawake wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

The scariest and most disheartening thing to me is that I believe that this is the way the majority of people think.

Agreed. People want everything to be black and white, and they want to assume that it can't happen to them. Never mind that there is no such as a perfect parent who has never made a mistake, and that we can't always control what our children think/do/become even with the best of intentions.

I can assure you that this is NOT how the majority thinks.

I can only tell you that it seems to me that the majority thinks this way from what I've seen over the years.

It just seems this way to you, but few of those intersted in columbine consider their pain "fake". This has to be the worst I've seen. It's, like you said, ignorance. But the majority does not share this person's opinion. The claim most people who look up columbine "don't have an ounce of sympathy" is not accurate, but seems to be made out of mood congruent memory bias.

I just know that over 15 years of observation I've seen their parents harshly criticized and denied sympathy a much,much more than I've seen the opposite. Take from that what you will.

From that, I stand by what I said. You can't seriously believe that most columbine researchers find their pain to be "fake", do you? Take comfort that you are more knowledgable on the subject than that insensitive troll who called them non-parents.

I'd also like to share with you that on tumblr someone is sending the Klebolds a heartwarming card for Dylan's upcoming would have been 33rd birthday and got 40 signatures so far. If you have a tumblr there still might be time to sign. I can't remember her username though. You might want to check the "columbine" or "dylan klebold" tag and see if it comes up.

When I spoke of "most people" I did not mean Columbine researchers or Columbiners.I meant just people in general,society at large. And although its impossible to tell for sure,I don't think the poster above was trolling.I think that is what she sincerely feels and believes.