Why did they not kill more?

Hello, new to the forum good thing that I've found people that I can talk about Columbine. I am sure that this has been discussed but what do you think about E/D not killing more. I don't think that they were so concerned about the police that they would commit suicide so early. And what about wandering in the halls not doing anything for 20 minutes(IRRC). Maybe they were bummed out about the bombs not going off but why not shoot everyone?

They were too busy shooting lockers, the ceiling and bathroom doors.

But in all seriousness, I think they didn't kill more people for several reasons. 1. Eric was extremely upset that his bombs didn't blow up. That is what was supposed to kill most of the people. This wasn't supposed to be a shooting. It was supposed to be a bombing. 2. Eric broke his nose. He probably had a lot of adrenaline running though him but breaking his nose had to have hurt. It was probably very distracting and caused him not to enjoy it as much as he expected, and therefore, he lost interest in shooting people not long after it happened. And not to mention, he probably spent the entire time in the Library pissed off that those bombs didn't blow up. And 3. They would have killed more people but they were terrible at aiming. They were only able to successfully kill people who were pretty close to them.

I think the main reason though is because those bombs failed and they, or Eric at least, was very disappointed and probably realized that the entire thing was nothing but a big fail. So he improvised. Even though they did manage to kill people, I'd say Karma got them pretty good. Well, for Eric at least. He died extremely disappointed and probably felt that it was a big failure and waste of time.

That is just my take on it anyway.

Something I've been wondering... A few minutes after 11:17, why didn't they simply go back to the cafeteria to pick up the duffel bags, put their gear back where they had taken it that morning, and work again on the bombs for next time?

I suppose the thought of not going NBK immediately at this point, of going back to normal life for a few more days at least, was absolutely out of question for them, fail or not.

Still, I know that in Eric's shoes I'd have been "damn, didn't blow up, let's abort discreetly and fix whatever the problem was" considering that the cafeteria explosion was their one true goal.

I sometimes wonder why when they went to inspect the bombs they didn't just shoot them from a couple of feet away instead of aiming quite a distance away.

Jenn wrote:

They were too busy shooting lockers, the ceiling and bathroom doors.

But in all seriousness, I think they didn't kill more people for several reasons. 1. Eric was extremely upset that his bombs didn't blow up. That is what was supposed to kill most of the people. This wasn't supposed to be a shooting. It was supposed to be a bombing. 2. Eric broke his nose. He probably had a lot of adrenaline running though him but breaking his nose had to have hurt. It was probably very distracting and caused him not to enjoy it as much as he expected, and therefore, he lost interest in shooting people not long after it happened. And not to mention, he probably spent the entire time in the Library pissed off that those bombs didn't blow up. And 3. They would have killed more people but they were terrible at aiming. They were only able to successfully kill people who were pretty close to them.

I think the main reason though is because those bombs failed and they, or Eric at least, was very disappointed and probably realized that the entire thing was nothing but a big fail. So he improvised. Even though they did manage to kill people, I'd say Karma got them pretty good. Well, for Eric at least. He died extremely disappointed and probably felt that it was a big failure and waste of time.

That is just my take on it anyway.

This explanation is more believable than the idea Eric was bored by the killings themselves because of his perceived character.

Radioactive_Clothing wrote:

I sometimes wonder why when they went to inspect the bombs they didn't just shoot them from a couple of feet away instead of aiming quite a distance away.

Yeah, same here.

In the cafeteria footage Eric seems to act like he wants to keep a safe distance when shooting at the propane tank... Same attitude with Dylan when he throws a Molotov cocktail... Weirdly normal/self-preserving behavior for people who not only were totally willing to die but actually knew they were going to die then and there, and soon.

Why not tell the other "hey, let's both synchronize to shoot the bomb at point blank each with a gun in each hand, maybe we'll get it to detonate then" and attempt that? Worst case, at 12:08 at least try it! What do you risk at that point?...

Conservation.

They stopped shooting in the library because they believed SWAT would be there any minute and they wanted another crack at the bombs while they still had ammunition to make a stand (when Eric and Dylan left the library, someone, maybe Evan Todd, reported that they made sweeping motions with their guns--they feared SWAT entrance through the west doors).

In the cafeteria, too, they feared a SWAT entrance. At one point a student in the cafeteria (I forget who in the 11K) heard them say, "One's coming in," in reference to the SWAT team--a false alarm that shows their paranoia.

If you look at the ballistic breakdown, they were almost out of bullets when they committed suicide.

I don't believe there was any change of heart.

lasttrain wrote:

Conservation.

They stopped shooting in the library because they believed SWAT would be there any minute and they wanted another crack at the bombs while they still had ammunition to make a stand (when Eric and Dylan left the library, someone, maybe Evan Todd, reported that they made sweeping motions with their guns--they feared SWAT entrance through the west doors).

In the cafeteria, too, they feared a SWAT entrance. At one point a student in the cafeteria (I forget who in the 11K) heard them say, "One's coming in," in reference to the SWAT team--a false alarm that shows their paranoia.

If you look at the ballistic breakdown, they were almost out of bullets when they committed suicide.

I don't believe there was any change of heart.

Nice observation, man. I don't think they had a change of heart either. I do have a question for you though. Do you know how much ammo they went with that day? I read somewhere that Klebold had saved a bullet in case he ran out of ammo but I haven't found a clear answer on just how much ammo they brought with them.

Here's your answer:

mattmatthew1337 wrote:

I think it is likely that lack of ammunition contributed to them offing themselves when they did.
Eric had expended 10 of his 12x10 round clips. He was found with only 2 clips in his pocket with one having 10x9mm rounds and the other having 8x9mm rounds. Eric was found with 14 shotgun shells in 5 green pouches attached to black shoulder straps, and he had another green pouch in his left pocket containing 10 shotgun shells. 1 more shotgun shell was unfired in the internal magazine of his pump action shotgun. Dylan left a 36 round magazine in his car (loaded with 34 rounds), his 50 round magazine was dropped outside possibly because of malfunction (it was found with 40 rounds in it), and he had just about emptied a 36 round magazine which malfunctioned in the hallway. His final 24 round magazine was found with 3 rounds in it, there was a round in the Tec-9 chamber which meant before he shot himself Dylan had a total of 5x9mm rounds left. Dylan was found with 14 shotgun shells in his black nylon belt, and a green pouch found near the entrance to the library in the hallway contained 7 shotgun shells (this would have been worn around Dylan's right shin as it can be seen in the cafateria footage. Dylan was found with 7 crickets and 1 pipebomb in his pocket while Eric had 5 crickets in his pocket. A further 5 crickets were found on the floor near their bodies. So here is the total ammunition that they had available unfired which they could have used:

Eric: 18x9mm rounds
     23x12 ga shotgun shells
Dylan: 5x9mm rounds
        14x12 ga shotgun shells
Both: 17 crickets, 1 pipebomb

While they both had an adequate amount of shotgun shells remaining, their shotguns were the secondary weapons and they could not hope to engage any SWAT with shotguns as it takes time to reload them. Their primary semi-automatic weapons were very low on ammunition. I think multiple reasons contributed to their suicide. 1.) Their cafateria bombs had failed to detonate and their master plan failed. 2.) They failed to initiate a detonation even after shooting the tanks and throwing a molotov cocktail at it. 3.) their car bombs failed to go off creating the casualties they wanted to cause. 4.) Eric had his nose broken which would have been hurting him by this point. 5.) They would have witnessed hundreds of police outside their windows showing the gravity of what had occurred and the impossible force they now would have to face. 6.) When they returned to the library possibly to continue the massacre, everyone was gone, and it appeared a majority in the school had already fled. 7.) after 40+ minutes their adrenaline would have worn down, they would have experienced a crash 8.) they were low on ammunition at this point, they might have heard SWAT approaching from their gunfire shooting out locked doors and searching them.

For the two of them, being taken alive was not an option. With them probably feeling depressed from their main plan failing, only small numbers of kids left to shoot, hundreds of police outside, low ammunition, adrenaline drop and the prospect of being captured alive, they probably felt that the alone time they had in the library was the best time to off themselves.

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], hey thanks for that info, man. How long have you been into studying the Columbine shooting?

Well--these guys were not evil geniuses ya know...I think over thinking this is a good way of chasing your own tail. They were still kids...no matter what crap they pulled off...the main plan tanked...panic and a hefty dose of fear ran the program from then on...they had no idea what they were doing...only that they were in in midst of it and had to carry on. And its just as dumb as that.

........ Peace.

What's always surprised me is, they were planning this big spectacular bombing, but they never once tested out this idea. (Not that I can tell anyways). If they would have at least gave it a test run, they would have realized that the bombs were doomed to fail for many reasons. They would have been better off making this a shooting only. They probably would have killed more people if it was just a shooting because they spent so much time during the shooting preoccupied with 'why didn't those bombs go off?'. That's my take on it anyways.

Excellent analysis, mattmatt1337 (I'm assuming that's meant to be pronounced 'leet'? ).

I would suggest though that you might be wrong on the "no kids left to shoot" part. As we all know, they taunted kids who were hiding in classrooms and restrooms but didn't show any interest in doing anything to try to kill them (which they could have).

They'd been looking forward to this for a super long time, they planned and planned and planned again for that day, ended up having to improvise, they had their fun, and after a while adrenaline went down and they kinda lost interest in killing (which, at that moment, is essentially the same thing as saying that they lost interest in continuing to live past that point). It's pretty obvious that they weren't focusing on trying to get the highest kill count for their entries in the history books by then, otherwise their behavior would have been very different.

In short, I'd replace "no kids left to kill" by "the novelty and excitation of killing kids had worn off by that point and they had become blasé with it".