Eric and Dylan's shooting accuracy.

Does anyone know the ratio of shots fired to "targets" hit? I know the boys weren't very good shots and the ones they did land were up close, but I've always wondered just how accurate shooters they really were. Here's a break down of total shots fired between them:

Harris:
Shotgun- Library 21, Inside 4, Outside 0 = 25
Carbine- Library 13, Inside 36, Outside 47 = 96
Total shots fired E - 121

Klebold:
Shotgun- Library 6, Inside 4, Outside 2 = 12
Tech9- Library 21, Inside 31, Outside 3 = 55
Total shots fired D - 67

Total shots fired by Eric and Dylan = 188


They fired 188 times total and yet only managed to kill 13 and injure 24. I was hoping someone may know how many shots actually hit someone. I know it lists in the deceaseds autopsies how many times they were shot, but in most articles on the wounded it mentions them being shot without saying how many times. I've never seen it discussed in detail in my time studying the case, but I figure after all this time someone has to at least have a semi-accurate number.

Here is a list (so far) of how many times each surviving victim was shot. I will add to it if I can find definite amounts of times the rest were shot.

Lance Kirklin - Shot 5 times.

Mark Taylor - Shot 8 times.

Richard Castaldo - Shot 5-8 times.

Anne Marie Hochhalter - Shot twice.

Sean Graves - Shot 4 times.

Stephanie Munson - Shot once.

Daniel Steepleton - Shot once.

Patrick Ireland - Shot 3 times.

Michael Johnson - Shot 3 times.

Patricia Nielson - Shot once.

Jenna Park - Shot 3 times.

Makai Hall - Shot once.

Thanks a lot Jenn! So that's 37-40 (depending on Castaldo) shots total. I did the math and 20% of 188 is 37.6, which means they weren't very accurate at all. I know their guns weren't meant for long range targets, but you'd think after a year of planning they would have been a bit better at shooting. This along with the bombs failing to detonate and the relatively small body count (compared to the number of kills they expected to get) just goes to show how inefficient the boys really were. Its almost funny how big a failure NBK was when you go back and read their writings on the subject. I wonder if either of the boys felt regret before they committed suicide? I'm sure Eric did.

Nirvana92 wrote:

Its almost funny how big a failure NBK was when you go back and read their writings on the subject. I wonder if either of the boys felt regret before they committed suicide? I'm sure Eric did.

I'm not sure how much time they spent thinking about it at that point, but I've wondered if Eric didn't feel like an absolute fool before his death. To make such big plans and purposely leave evidence behind intending for it to be found and the world to see it... and see how wrong your plan went. I imagine he would've been incredibly embarrassed. But maybe he was too focused on other things to think about that part of it... who knows.

But I do think Eric must have died disappointed, at the very least.

ellie z wrote:

Nirvana92 wrote:

Its almost funny how big a failure NBK was when you go back and read their writings on the subject. I wonder if either of the boys felt regret before they committed suicide? I'm sure Eric did.

I'm not sure how much time they spent thinking about it at that point, but I've wondered if Eric didn't feel like an absolute fool before his death. To make such big plans and purposely leave evidence behind intending for it to be found and the world to see it... and see how wrong your plan went. I imagine he would've been incredibly embarrassed. But maybe he was too focused on other things to think about that part of it... who knows.

But I do think Eric must have died disappointed, at the very least.

I'm not sure if I agree. They may have been bummed out a little bit that the bombs were a bust, but if you look at the big picture they didn't COMPLETELY fail in what they intended. They took 13 lives that day. Yes, I know that's a small number in comparison to what they had planned but those are still 13 people dead because of Eric and Dylan. I think they were aware that things might not go as planned. Granted, they didn't really have a plan b, but they didn't need a plan b. They had guns. That's all they really needed. They wanted to strike fear in the heart of their school. They wanted to "leave a lasting impression on the world". I would say that they accomplished these things. They became the poster kids for school shooters (even though they weren't the first and they don't have the highest body count) Whenever a school shooting happens, who is it compared to? Columbine. Always Columbine. Hell its been sixteen years and we are STILL talking about them and trying to figure it all out. I'd say if they are able to see the aftermath now...they'd probably be pretty pleased with themselves.

Also, I'm not sure if they knew how many people they killed. They wounded quiet a few, they may have thought they killed more people than they actually did.

browneyes11 wrote:

I'm not sure if I agree. They may have been bummed out a little bit that the bombs were a bust, but if you look at the big picture they didn't COMPLETELY fail in what they intended. They took 13 lives that day. Yes, I know that's a small number in comparison to what they had planned but those are still 13 people dead because of Eric and Dylan. I think they were aware that things might not go as planned. Granted, they didn't really have a plan b, but they didn't need a plan b. They had guns. That's all they really needed. They wanted to strike fear in the heart of their school. They wanted to "leave a lasting impression on the world". I would say that they accomplished these things. They became the poster kids for school shooters (even though they weren't the first and they don't have the highest body count) Whenever a school shooting happens, who is it compared to? Columbine. Always Columbine. Hell its been sixteen years and we are STILL talking about them and trying to figure it all out. I'd say if they are able to see the aftermath now...they'd probably be pretty pleased with themselves.

Also, I'm not sure if they knew how many people they killed. They wounded quiet a few, they may have thought they killed more people than they actually did.

I actually don't really disagree with you on much here. I should have worded what I said differently, or expanded on it, because what I said actually seems to misrepresent what I think. I do think Eric was disappointed that the bombs didn't work, based on what I think of his personality and his actions during the attack. But I don't think Eric was disappointed overall. The method of the attack failed, but the end results didn't. They were successful with the reaction they wanted to get and the impression they wanted to leave. I think they'd be very pleased overall.

The issue of embarrassment for Eric is just something I've honestly wondered about. I mostly doubt he was focused on that, but I can also imagine him thinking about it. I do think he was disappointed over the bombs, but I wonder if he felt like an idiot over being so confident in his plan and leaving the evidence behind, then failing at it. Of course this is personal opinion, he just strikes me as the one who may care about the method failing even if the overall plan was a success. But I can also see him not worrying too much about it, since they got the reaction they wanted anyway. His disappointment could have been superficial and short lived. Clearly, I'm not even sure what I think on this part.

I think he felt like a failure. He used to call people who just shot up schools and ended up doing the same after his bombs didn't go off.

browneyes11 wrote:

Also, I'm not sure if they knew how many people they killed. They wounded quiet a few, they may have thought they killed more people than they actually did.

Most went unconscious and would of looked pretty dead, and there probably around 5-6 at least that looked fairly dead. So they probably thought that their victim list was a decent amount higher.

I think the they probably were slightly disappointed with how things turned out, but Eric probably would of been less pleased than Dylan. Main knew his goal of killing him self would finally be accomplished whereas Eric's goal of creating mass destruction and chaos turned out less than he planned. I saying that if they saw the outcome of 16 years to date of pain, fangirls, media attention, somewhat infamous trendsetters/legends then they would probably be happy. The aftermath definitely was bigger than the initial event.

Nirvana92 wrote:

They fired 188 times total and yet only managed to kill 13 and injure 24. I was hoping someone may know how many shots actually hit someone. I know it lists in the deceaseds autopsies how many times they were shot, but in most articles on the wounded it mentions them being shot without saying how many times. I've never seen it discussed in detail in my time studying the case, but I figure after all this time someone has to at least have a semi-accurate number.

thing is, some people they shot several times. Moreover, they fired a lot of shots with a deliberate "hail mary" chances of hitting anyone, examples being Eric shooting at kids way over at the other side of the football field, or later on the long-range fire exhcange with cops who were hiding behind cover, vehicles etc.

Also, both shot at inanimate objects many times deliberately.

My point is: this was never a "make every shot count" and "let us have the highest bodycount possible" type of massacre. Forget Eric's rant in his writing, becaus ein this case his own actions on 4/20 invalidate that.

Falcolus wrote:

I saying that if they saw the outcome of 16 years to date of pain, fangirls, media attention, somewhat infamous trendsetters/legends then they would probably be happy. The aftermath definitely was bigger than the initial event.

And with this conclusion, let us all hope that in a possible afterlife there is in fact no memory of you pevious life. Its better this way.

Sabratha wrote:

Nirvana92 wrote:

They fired 188 times total and yet only managed to kill 13 and injure 24. I was hoping someone may know how many shots actually hit someone. I know it lists in the deceaseds autopsies how many times they were shot, but in most articles on the wounded it mentions them being shot without saying how many times. I've never seen it discussed in detail in my time studying the case, but I figure after all this time someone has to at least have a semi-accurate number.

thing is, some people they shot several times. Moreover, they fired a lot of shots with a deliberate "hail mary" chances of hitting anyone, examples being Eric shooting at kids way over at the other side of the football field, or later on the long-range fire exhcange with cops who were hiding behind cover, vehicles etc.

Also, both shot at inanimate objects many times deliberately.

My point is: this was never a "make every shot count" and "let us have the highest bodycount possible" type of massacre. Forget Eric's rant in his writing, becaus ein this case his own actions on 4/20 invalidate that.

Falcolus wrote:

I  saying that if they saw the outcome of 16 years to date of pain, fangirls, media attention, somewhat infamous trendsetters/legends then they would probably be happy. The aftermath definitely was bigger than the initial event.

And with this conclusion, let us all hope that in a possible afterlife there is in fact no memory of you pevious life. Its better this way.

True but that brings up the question of how hard they were trying to actually kill. Did they shoot some people multiple times to "get the job done" or were they just shooting them that much for the hell of it? When youre shooting a semi automatic gun sometimes its just fun to pop off rounds rapidly. Anyone whos shot can tell you that just poping off three or four rounds in quick succession is almost cathartic. It makes you feel powerful. I guess what I'm saying is were they having fun shooting people to kill, or having fun shooting at targets that just happen to be real people? They could have killed so many more with their guns alone, but they instead they wasted ammo shooting at lockers and taking pot shots at police. There are instances of them shooting with the definite intent to kill (Shoels, Bernall, Kirklin), but then there are also times like with Townsend where they just seemed to shoot to shoot.

I hope I'm wording that right. I know they had HOPED that every round would cause a fatality. That just didnt happen though and the evidence points to them not trying as hard you would think they'd have. Of course were still not sure whether they thought the bombs might still detonate or not. Its logical to think their urge to have some twisted fun before the explosion would overtake their want to make every shot count. They'd be all be dead at any moment as far as they knew.

I think Eric felt some amount of disappointment before ending his life. By the time they realized the bombs weren't going to blow they had expended most of their ammo, a wall of police had arrived, and a good deal of students had already made it out. NBK hadnt turned out anything like hed planned. A year and all the money hed worked for down the drain for 13 deaths. Sure the boys ended up famous with followers as they thought they would, but they had no idea of knowing that would happen or not.

That's why I find this subject interesting. They could have killed so many more and yet they didnt. When they did kill they were sloppy about it, far from the tactical soldiers they invisioned themselves as. Did they place too much faith in their bombs? Or did the simple fact that they were enacting their grand plan of NBK cloud their thinking? Maybe they were having so much fun and so into it that they just didnt notice the actual body count. Dylan was very excited during the time in the library. People were dead and he would join them soon. Eric broke his nose too which is a major factor. There's just so many angles and its frustrating that well never know for sure.

I think in some cases they were not trying to kill, or even injure. I am sure that some of the people in the library who saw them walk past them or bang on the table they were hiding under would of probably had many issues with dealing with things like PTSD afterwards. The victims died, and most quickly, so there was little to none suffering for them. For some of the survivors the fact that their friends were shot and killed around them was more than enough pain to deal with for anyone.

They also probably wanted witnesses of their acts, so they could be "glorified" even further by the media.

Nirvana92 wrote:

There's just so many angles and its frustrating that well never know for sure

I suppose that is why we are still pondering the acts of two teenagers 16 years later :\

Nirvana92 wrote:

True but that brings up the question of how hard they were trying to actually kill. Did they shoot some people multiple times to "get the job done" or were they just shooting them that much for the hell of it?

I'm pretty sure that they shot some people several times, including up-close execution style killings. They certainly wanted to kill and in some cases made sure someone is dead (or so they thought - Lance Kirklin case in point).

However there was certainly no "make every bullet count" and "kill as many people as possible" objective. Most of what they did seems to have been done "for the hell of it". They shot at many inanimate objects. They seen a lot of kids who were in range, but never shot at them.

Cho or Adam Lanza seems to have gone for the highest possible bodycount. Taking extra effort to contain their victims, trying to kill everyone in sight to the point of shooting dead and unconscious woudned kids in the head point blank just to make sure they are dead.

Eric and Dylan behaved in a totally different manner in comparison. If Eric and Dylan really went for a max bodycount like Cho did, they would have shot a lot more wounded people in the head point blank. they would have shot at numerous students still hiding in the cafeteria. They wouldn't leave so many people alive in the library.

This needs to be stressed. Columbien had the potential to have many more victims, Eric and Dylan just didn't have the "make every shot count" mindset. This was not a "competition" for them. They cared mroe about kicks, fun, "getting of" on power trips or playing God.