Jeffco and the basement tapes - Sabratha's theory on why they are gone

Dylan'sgirl wrote:

I don't even know where to begin. I feel like Dylan and Eric should give it to someone who would publish it while the shooting was happening or something. It really bugs me that the Basement Tapes won't see public light.

Well, never been much of a conspiracy nut as far as police went.

However, the more I learn about this case the more I was becoming suspicious. I read Krabbe's book and he goes on a small tangent about JEFFCO being given tips on Eric's pipe bombs and ignoring these. At some point a bomb expert even compared some pipebomb evidence and he foudn it match exactly the size and shape of pipebombs Eric deacibed on his website.

Then for some reason the case is never take up, JEFFCO seems to forget all about it.

Now, the more i look at it, the more i see this may be the key evidence that JEFFCO probably wants to hide. They knew Eric was making bombs, they had people reporting this, they found a match with what he wrote in the website and did nothing.

So... given what we know about Eric, I think we can imagine that at some part of the basement tapes he goes on some sort of rant about his pipebombs. The rant probably revealed something that would serve as evidence that JEFCO neglected the case and failed to prevent the shooting. Just imagine all the lawsuits...

I was lookign for a reason why JEFFCO would destroy evidence in a controversial case (which itself might fuel lawsuits), but until recently did not piece this togeather. Now I think I did - to avoid an even bigger lawsuit problem.

Which is strange. I figured those idiots would have been sued when the 11K reports were released, and Brooks and his parents finally have evidence that the police did have a search warrant that they did nothing about.

What a corrupted, and dirty department. The Basement Tapes will never see public light. It's a shame really. We all know Jeffco is a dirty corrupted police department that did nothing about said incidents. They also failed to respond that Eric had a criminal record prior. Two months before that Brooks and his parents filed a police report Eric and Dylan both got in trouble for a van-break in. Truly unbelievable.

It's sobering indeed to think that the whole Columbine incident could have been simply averted by police responding to even one of the myriad of complaints, tips, or info that they had at their inept, negligent (which is the key here), and corrupt disposal.
Like many tragedies before and since, it's a confluence of many, many little things along a lengthy continuum in which, if only ONE item is interrupted or averted, the whole situation would never have happened.

ThoughtBox wrote:

It's sobering indeed to think that the whole Columbine incident could have been simply averted by police responding to even one of the myriad of complaints, tips, or info that they had at their inept, negligent (which is the key here), and corrupt disposal.
Like many tragedies before and since, it's a confluence of many, many little things along a lengthy continuum in which, if only ONE item is interrupted or averted, the whole situation would never have happened.

The police responded to some of Brown's complaints and tips, but tehse were mostly relatively minor harassment&vandalism stuff. I really think the key is them failing to follow up the pipebomb issue, especially since a bomb specialist already matched teh evidence with the description of the bombs from Eric's website. They should have followed that up link Eric with the bombs and charge him for this.

Minor harrassment? Eric was threatening onkilling Brooks Brown, and threw his phone number out there for others to call him. A "terroristic threat" was not a minor thing, even in the 90s, even before 9/11

lol wrote:

Minor harrassment?  Eric was threatening onkilling Brooks Brown, and threw his phone number out there for others to call him. A "terroristic threat" was not a minor thing, even in the 90s, even before 9/11

Ok, i should be more clear: Minor in comparison with making bombs with the intent to kill.

I'm not big on conspiracies either, but there was most certainly something on those tapes JeffCo doesn't want seen. I find it odd that both Cho and Elliot Rodgers manifestos are available online, and yet E and D's words were kept under tight lock and key. I could understand if they had been released with some parts censored, but no even that happened. Cho killed 32 people and his words were aired all over television in the days after V-tech. He even referred to Harris and Klebold as martyrs in his video. What could honestly be so bad about 2 angry teenagers ranting about how they're "gods"? It had to be something more than just the pipebombs, as that info came out a couple years after the fact.

What do you think about Mark Taylor's molestation claims Sabratha? I've never taken them seriously, but it would make sense for them to destroy the tapes if there really was evidence to support that claim. The BT being withheld and now destroyed is one of the sketchiest parts of the case. We cant even be sure we have all the boys journal entries. It just gives me the feeling there was a little more to the relationship between Eric and Dylan and JeffCo than they wanted us to know.

Nirvana92 wrote:

I'm not big on conspiracies either, but there was most certainly something on those tapes JeffCo doesn't want seen. I find it odd that both Cho and Elliot Rodgers manifestos are available online, and yet E and D's words were kept under tight lock and key. I could understand if they had been released with some parts censored, but no even that happened. Cho killed 32 people and his words were aired all over television in the days after V-tech. He even referred to Harris and Klebold as martyrs in his video. What could honestly be so bad about 2 angry teenagers ranting about how they're "gods"? It had to be something more than just the pipebombs, as that info came out a couple years after the fact.

What do you think about Mark Taylor's molestation claims Sabratha? I've never taken them seriously, but it would make sense for them to destroy the tapes if there really was evidence to support that claim. The BT being withheld and now destroyed is one of the sketchiest parts of the case. We cant even be sure we have all the boys journal entries. It just gives me the feeling there was a little more to the relationship between Eric and Dylan and JeffCo than they wanted us to know.

I have seen somewhere online that they have been abused by cops? However I don't know how much truth is in this statement..

Sabartha- I just realised you have quoted me!

Nirvana92 wrote:

What do you think about Mark Taylor's molestation claims Sabratha? I've never taken them seriously, but it would make sense for them to destroy the tapes if there really was evidence to support that claim. The BT being withheld and now destroyed is one of the sketchiest parts of the case. We cant even be sure we have all the boys journal entries. It just gives me the feeling there was a little more to the relationship between Eric and Dylan and JeffCo than they wanted us to know.

I think that abuse theory is BS. That would be far too obvious. Remember there were some journalists, victims and families of victims who seen the tapes. Anything as obvious as sexual absuse would have been picked up by someone.

So I think whatever as on the tapes it was subtle enough so as not to be too blaring and too compromising for Jeffco at first glance, but that must have been very damaging in hindsight. So I guess the bomb details were probably it, as they fit both criteria.

I still don't believe that every single copy is gone, but I realized long ago that I would probably never see them.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], interesting theory. Certainly if I were JeffCo, I would be very careful to keep that information about the pipe bombs quiet. As far as the molestation theory, or just general abuse by cops, I have never seen or heard anything to support that other than the particular file that emerged years ago (I believe it was called "walshbuttrape" or something similar) that someone came forward and stated they had drawn and posted by accident.

But the information about the Browns complaints and the polices prior knowledge came out a few years after the fact any way. If that were it they'd have no reason to continue to hide them. I'm not saying the abuse theory is correct. In fact I think its ridiculous to think E and D wouldn't have told someone or snapped earlier instead of planning for a year+ time. I do believe what ever it might be may only be subtlety hinted at by the boys on the tapes. Police corruption is a serious problem and its understandable that JeffCo would want to hide any evidence that they could have caused or stopped NBK. After the leak that they knew Eric was making bombs the whole time any new scandal could cause trouble on both a local and country wide level. Citizens look for any reason to hate the law it seems.

I really doubt that the sexual abuse theory holds any water. Dylan's parents have watched the basement tapes, they know the contents. In "Far from the tree" one can read: "She [Sue] has wondered whether he might have endured some precipitating trauma, even if he'd been raped by someone, but has never found any evidence to that effect" (p. 591). If there had been any hints in this direction on the basement tapes, Sue would have definitely picked up on that.

I really want to see how Dylan really is in the Basement Tapes. Sue, and Tom kept saying "That's not my son." Apparently, he was completely different.

lol wrote:

I really want to see how Dylan really is in the Basement Tapes. Sue, and Tom kept saying "That's not my son." Apparently, he was completely different.

They're sailing up De Nile...

Dylan had a side that he kept from them. They don't want to believe that the boy whose diapers they changed was a blood-thirsty murderer. Can't blame them - no one wants to think that his or her son is an ugly, awful, kid-killing monster. But that's what he was, at least on 4/20.

Unfortunately. It seems like Dylan really wanted to do this, even as far as back late '97.

Everyone always says how Dylan was suicidal, but what about homicidal as well? He wrote about killing people. I don't know where people get that "Eric was the homicidal and Dylan was the suicidal". Eric was suicidal. He cut himself. He hated how he looked. Hell, he flatly admits he picks on people who looks like him because he hates himself, and has no self esteem. He even admitted in the Juvenile Diversion Files to being suicidal, and he checked off suicidal at the maximum level if I recall. It is unfortunate how Dylan was too scared, and stopped caring about his life. He lied throughout Juvenile Diversion. He never admitted to any homicidal or suicidal thoughts when he clearly had those feelings.

It must have been a huge slap in the face to Eric when he admitted being suicidal and homicidal, and yet they did nothing. They prescribed him the wrong medication too. Dylan, on the other hand wanted to help himself and decided to take St. John's Wort. Very sad. I can just imagine this desperate boy severely depressed, and he has no idea who to turn to that he goes to a CVS, or a Walmart to buy this herb that I've heard only helps slightly, and only with mild depression.

lol wrote:

Unfortunately. It seems like Dylan really wanted to do this, even as far as back late '97.

Everyone always says how Dylan was suicidal, but what about homicidal as well? He wrote about killing people. I don't know where people get that "Eric was the homicidal and Dylan was the suicidal". Eric was suicidal. He cut himself. He hated how he looked. Hell, he flatly admits he picks on people who looks like him because he hates himself, and has no self esteem. He even admitted in the Juvenile Diversion Files to being suicidal, and he checked off suicidal at the maximum level if I recall. It is unfortunate how Dylan was too scared, and stopped caring about his life. He lied throughout Juvenile Diversion. He never admitted to any homicidal or suicidal thoughts when he clearly had those feelings.

It must have been a huge slap in the face to Eric when he admitted being suicidal and homicidal, and yet they did nothing. They prescribed him the wrong medication too. Dylan, on the other hand wanted to help himself and decided to take St. John's Wort. Very sad. I can just imagine this desperate boy severely depressed, and he has no idea who to turn to that he goes to a CVS, or a Walmart to buy this herb that I've heard only helps slightly, and only with mild depression.

OT, but they don't have CVSes in Colorado. They do have Walgreenses.

I say this because I once knew a woman from Denver who would not go to any pharmacy but Walgreens. She said that "CVS sounds like a disease, not a store." LOL.

lol wrote:

Eric was suicidal. He cut himself.

4/20 is the best evidence. They were both homicidal and suicidal, though by their journals we can guess Dylan was more focuised on suicide and personal romantic/creepy stalker issues, Eric more focused on how society is messed up and how he doesn't want to be a part.

Eric's self-harm theory doesn't hold water though. IIRC its all based on some superficial cuts found on one of his arms after he was dead. Its not even stated if these were fresh or old. Seeing as there was all kinds of stuff happening on 4/20, including shrapnel, broken glass all over the floor etc (not to mention Eric's garage activities), we need more evidence before we speculate about teh cause of said marks.

I'm pretty certain people at school would notice self-cutting if he did it. They did know about the chest scar, so they would also know about self-cut scars if there were any prior to his final weeks.

lol wrote:

They prescribed him the wrong medication too.

I already mentioned this is my "why luvox didn't help?" thread. My opinion is that they prescribed him the rigth medication given the info they had. Intrusive homicidal and suicidal thoughts are actually very typicall for OCD. Eric just didn't give them the whole story, or more likley deceived the shrink on purpose.

Eric either lied to his shrink from the start all along saying that there are just are intrusive thoughts, or at least decided go along with the deception when the shrink asked if these are intrusive thoughts.

Came across a post by somebody a month ago at some site that I found interesting surrounding a potential reason why the tapes weren't released.

[–]Javin007 -1 points 1 month ago
You are either incredibly naive, or incredibly uneducated. Read about the Sandy Hook and Virginia Tech shootings, and the motivations of shooters behind them. Both were inspired by Columbine, going off what little they saw.
Look at the history of serial killings. Each time a famous killer comes to light, suddenly a rash of copy-cat murders spring up.
People are sheep, and that even goes for the psychos. They will, and do, emulate their heroes. When no "heroes" are around to be emulated, things are quiet for awhile.
What's silly is to "assume" anything in those videos would have possibly been of any value to anyone beyond gore porn, media frenzy, and stimulating other murderers. Even if psychologists could have gleaned some magical bit out of them that they haven't managed to get from hundreds of years of studying thousands of other serial killers, would it be enough to prevent more deaths than the release of that information would inspire?
You should really read about just how serial killers, and the media that glorifies them continues to be a cycle. Some people are just sick, but (as said by the Virginia Tech killer) when they have an idol to look up to, they strive to be "bigger, badder, and with a bigger body count" than the last guy.
The very last thing we need to do is keep thrusting these psychos into the spotlight. And that's PRECISELY what the media would have done if that stuff had been released.
And yes, ISIS is no better. Thus the "new muslim"-driven attacks that have been spawning worldwide that didn't exist before hand.
So your solution is, "since we have this giant pile of shit, who cares if we dump out some more shit?"