Dylan Klebold

What's the consensus about him?

I don't really know much on him, what's your views?

I've heard a lot of conflicting stories about him, which are just that. Stories.

But I'm interested in what he's perceived as being, besides the lapdog of dictator Eric Harris.
I just find that very demeaning to his memory, that he would be remembered not only as a murderer but as a helpless follower.
Maybe that's what he wanted? I don't know. As I've said, I don't know much about him.

Help a brother out?

I don't think Dylan was a follower, in fact, I think that 'NBK' was Dylan's idea. He seemed to talk about a 'killing spree' and 'guns' way before Eric ever did. I do think Dylan was lazy with the whole planning of 'NBK' though and I think Eric did most of the work and that is how Dylan wanted it.

I think Eric followed Dylan in a lot of things, actually. Music, style of dressing, band sticks on the rear window of their cars. I also think that Dylan only moved onto to Eric as a new 'best friend' because he felt ditched by his true 'best friend', Zack Heckler.

Eric wrote about Dylan being his 'best friend' in school papers. 'My best friend and I', 'Dylan and I'..All Dylan wrote about was feeling betrayed by Zack and girls he had crushes on. Dylan also had no problems betraying his 'best friend', Eric, to Brooks Brown.

I think Dylan meant a lot more to Eric than Eric meant to Dylan. I honestly don't understand where this whole 'Dylan is a follower' comes from. I mean, looking at the facts, it doesn't seem that way to me at all.

I'm much more fascinated by Eric so I want to know more about him than Dylan. But I think Dylan was clearly very depressed, insecure who probably had just as much rage as Eric but hid it extremely well. I think his slacking off in school and drinking a ton could be due to his depression. But very intelligent, very shy and self conscious. I see him as also being very introverted.
I don't see him as a follower in NBK though mainly since he had the idea in the first place and Eric seemed to be the type of person who turns ideas and plans into actions. It's an Aries trait. I think the whole follower comes from Dylan's classmates describing him as a follower, thought he was a very nice and non violent person and their journals.

Most people seems to think, that depression is the point of Dylans Personality. I however, think, that Dylan experienced some kind of light psychotic-thinking, which you can see in his journal and that that (added to his depressions, also he seemed not continuous depressed, there is also a part, where he wrote about "Being at the zombie bliss side" and that he hates that, too) was the main reason, why Dylan was the person he was, and did what he did.
A lot of things seemed to had a secret meaning for him, these symbolsm for example, which he used to describe powers, which controls things (or existences, how Dylan would probably say). Too bad, that we dont know for sure, what the Ankh, that double-cross, the sunwheels and stars meant for him.
Than there is possession with the afterlife/halcyon, his fear of being unhuman, his belief, that he was some kind of god-like, which he definitive seemed to think in another way, than Eric. To be god, meant to Eric, that he had power over other people. Dylan never mentions anything of that. To be god, seemed to mean for him, that he was dropped out of humanity, was ready to explore the eternities of existence...whatever. His claim to be god seems clearly more psychotic, than Erics.
There are a lot of speculations about Dylans mental state. Peter Langman suggests, that Dylan had a schizotypical-personality disorder, and he has a lot of good arguments. Someone at the old board suggested, that Dylan could be pre-schizophrenic, which seems also legit.

Well, I hope this wasnt to clouded and I got clear, what I mean.

Jenn wrote:

I don't think Dylan was a follower, in fact, I think that 'NBK' was Dylan's idea. He seemed to talk about a 'killing spree' and 'guns' way before Eric ever did. I do think Dylan was lazy with the whole planning of 'NBK' though and I think Eric did most of the work and that is how Dylan wanted it.

I think Eric followed Dylan in a lot of things, actually. Music, style of dressing, band sticks on the rear window of their cars. I also think that Dylan only moved onto to Eric as a new 'best friend' because he felt ditched by his true 'best friend', Zack Heckler.

Eric wrote about Dylan being his 'best friend' in school papers. 'My best friend and I', 'Dylan and I'..All Dylan wrote about was feeling betrayed by Zack and girls he had crushes on. Dylan also had no problems betraying his 'best friend', Eric, to Brooks Brown.

I think Dylan meant a lot more to Eric than Eric meant to Dylan. I honestly don't understand where this whole 'Dylan is a follower' comes from. I mean, looking at the facts, it doesn't seem that way to me at all.

I agree with everything you've said. I can see why it would appear that way because he was apparently so nice and sweet, when he wasn't killing people or anything.
Just the fact that no-one saw it coming with Dylan kind of freaks me out. Eric I can understand to a certain extent but some for reason, Dylan escapes me. I believe he was a lot more disturbed than was reported. My personal belief is that maybe the B.T's show that and that's why they won't be shown publicly because our understanding of the whole situation would change. That might not be why but I'm an over-thinker so my brain comes up with all sorts of reasons.

Hale-Bopp wrote:

Well, I hope this wasnt to clouded and I got clear, what I mean.

You made perfect sense! That's an interesting take on matters. I hadn't thought about it that way before although I have considered the "God complex" theory before.
You've given me a lot to think about. Thank you

CatherineM813 wrote:

Eric seemed to be the type of person who turns ideas and plans into actions.

That's exactly why the plan took off the ground, in my opinion. Dylan planted the seed but Eric followed through.

Another Aries trait I found is when a plan takes to long an Aries will eventually get bored and will drop the plan. I really wish Eric would have decided to drop it.

It didn't take too long though, I don't think it because serious for them until November.

Eric wrote "its all over now. this capped it off, the point of no return." 11/22/98. Until then I think they were just hypothetically speaking if something were to happen.

I wonder how Robyn feels about it. She bought them after all, I know that she had no clue but if she hadn't have bought them then maybe they would have given up. Who knows? What's done is done.

Good points. I was actually thinking about that today and If I were Robyn I would have felt used, betrayed, embarrassed and angry. I got the feeling that she really liked Dylan romantically and he probably knew and they used that to their advantage.

Ah the things a stupid love sick teenager will do. She knew that they went to the shooting range I think right? So it wasn't completely out of the ordinary. I do feel really bad for her. She was betrayed be the people that she called friends.

I feel really bad for her. But I also feel really bad for Philip Duran and Mark Manes for having to serve time in jail because of them. Also Chris Morris he went through so many awful things by people he was really good friends with and many others.

I don't feel as bad for them. Weren't they grown men who should have known better? Besides Robyn was somewhat legal, what they did was wrong. Okay they didn't know what they would be used for but it's not the point, it's the principle behind it

I find it funny how contradictory the statements that people make about Eric and Dylan are. Obviously, we show different sides of ourselves to various people, but you have one side saying Dylan was a sweetheart and a follower while Eric was crazy and manipulative, and another (albeit much smaller) side saying Eric was sweet, polite and followed Dylan around while Dylan was weird, intimidating and had a much larger group of friends than Eric.

I find it incredibly hard to believe that anyone is charismatic enough to talk someone else into mass murder if the inclination is not already there. Particularly when we're talking about Eric Harris - who comes across to me in videos as being sort of silly and awkward and generally uncomfortable with himself.

Everyone wants to name a leader and a follower, but it seems to me that each of them were both at different points in time. Just sayin'.

(After lurking for so long, it's frustrating to try and put my thoughts into a cohesive answer to be read by others! Argh!)

I think this sounded like a really great answer and I understand what you are trying to say and where you are coming from.

There is also a point in Dylans diary, where he wrotes: " *blackened out* will get me a gun and it will be NBK for us".
It cant be Eric, because Erics name wouldnt be blackened out. So it seems, that Dylan had already thoughts about mass-murder, but wanted it to do with someone else. So when he decided to let come his fantasies real with Eric, this was more sort of a plan B. Therefore its very unlikely, that he just followed Erics leadership.

Many people also mentions, that Dylan diary shows ideas of mass-murder already in 1997, when Erics doesnt start until 1998. Thats true, but keep in mind, that Erics had his webpage in 1997, where he wrote about wanting commit a killing spree. So it seems, their initial ideas of committing murder, come up at the same time/the same year, or at least their expression.

Hale-Bopp wrote:

Many people also mentions, that Dylan diary shows ideas of mass-murder already in 1997, when Erics doesnt start until 1998. Thats true, but keep in mind, that Erics had his webpage in 1997, where he wrote about wanting commit a killing spree. So it seems, their initial ideas of committing murder, come up at the same time/the same year, or at least their expression.

Does he mention mass murder? I thought that it was just when talking about something he'd mention wanting to kill/harm whoever he was talking about.

Dylan just doesn't make sense to me. I build a framework around Eric to a certain extent. Everyone knew that he had anger management problems and a short fuse and no1 was particularly surprised by his actions, as sad as that is.

Dylan shocked everyone. Not only what he done and how he behaved that day (laughing and hollering up a storm) but what he managed to hide from them.

Quote :

I find it funny how contradictory the statements that people make about Eric and Dylan are. Obviously, we show different sides of ourselves to various people, but you have one side saying Dylan was a sweetheart and a follower while Eric was crazy and manipulative, and another (albeit much smaller) side saying Eric was sweet, polite and followed Dylan around while Dylan was weird, intimidating and had a much larger group of friends than Eric.

I find it incredibly hard to believe that anyone is charismatic enough to talk someone else into mass murder if the inclination is not already there. Particularly when we're talking about Eric Harris - who comes across to me in videos as being sort of silly and awkward and generally uncomfortable with himself.

Everyone wants to name a leader and a follower, but it seems to me that each of them were both at different points in time. Just sayin'.

WORD

areyoulistening wrote:

Hale-Bopp wrote:

Many people also mentions, that Dylan diary shows ideas of mass-murder already in 1997, when Erics doesnt start until 1998. Thats true, but keep in mind, that Erics had his webpage in 1997, where he wrote about wanting commit a killing spree. So it seems, their initial ideas of committing murder, come up at the same time/the same year, or at least their expression.

Does he mention mass murder? I thought that it was just when talking about something he'd mention wanting to kill/harm whoever he was talking about.

Dylan just doesn't make sense to me. I build a framework around Eric to a certain extent. Everyone knew that he had anger management problems and a short fuse and no1 was particularly surprised by his actions, as sad as that is.

Dylan shocked everyone. Not only what he done and how he behaved that day (laughing and hollering up a storm) but what he managed to hide from them.

Somewhere in an early entry he wrote: " *blackened out* will get me a gun, Ill go on my killing spree against anyone I want." That entry is from 11-3-97
I see now, that I mixed that entry up with another, in my last post. Dylan wrote: "either Ill commit suicide or Ill get with *blackened out* and it will be NBK for us". Well, the meaning is the same- Dylan inital plan was to commit mass-murder alone, or with an another person, which wasnt Eric.

Hale-Bopp wrote:

Somewhere in an early entry he wrote: " *blackened out* will get me a gun, Ill go on my killing spree against anyone I want." That entry is from 11-3-97
I see now, that I mixed that entry up with another, in my last post. Dylan wrote: "either Ill commit suicide or Ill get with *blackened out* and it will be NBK for us". Well, the meaning is the same- Dylan inital plan was to commit mass-murder alone, or with a another person, which wasnt Eric.

Okay yeah that makes more sense. I've seen that. Always makes me think that it was his idea. I wonder what he meant by "get with" did he intend it to be a female? In the film Natural Born Killers the guys who do it are lovers. Did he want the same thing going into it?

Things that make me wonder...

He might have wanted to do it with a female but I'm not
Sure what female he would do it with. From what I remember reading on school shooters website Peter Langham suggested that Dylan might have been referring to
Zach Heckler.

Yeah I've read that. Peter Langham uses Dave Cullen as a source, now I don't know how I feel about him... is that bad?
It was something like he wanted Zach to do it with him but then he got with Devon Adams so he and Dylan weren't as close anymore and in swooped Harris right?

No not at all. As you know Dave Cullen isn't very credible. And if I remember the story correctly according to Devon Adams Eric had a huge crush on her. That caused a falling out between him and Zach because Zach was with Devon and Eric believed Devon was trying to break up their group. He then threatened her life and she didn't like him anymore. There was a rumor that she reported him to the principal too. But Zach and Dylan remained close friends and would talk on the phone many times a week.
I think one of the reasons why Dylan chose Eric because they had a strong influence on each other.

CatherineM813 wrote:

=according to Devon Adams Eric had a huge crush on her.

I've always wondered how she knew that. Did someone tell her?

I never knew that he threatened her. What an ass.

Maybe he told one of his friends and that friend told Devon. Or maybe he would try flirting with her and acted all clingy. Many girls said that he was very clingy and persistent.
Some girls also said that he threatened their lives as well like in emails when they didn't want to date him. He DIDNT handle rejection very well.

He was like a dog chasing cars. I think if he got a girl, he wouldn't know what to do with her.

No he didn't take it well at all. I understand being upset but have some dignity and let them go. Getting mad and doing stuff like that doesn't solve anything. It backs up a point though, theirs.

areyoulistening wrote:

It was something like he wanted Zach to do it with him but then he got with Devon Adams so he and Dylan weren't as close anymore and in swooped Harris right?

Zach Heckler seems the only likely choice. They touched base almost every night by phone, and I remember reading somewhere that they shared a bond in their depression. I think Dylan must have always considered Zach his number one best friend and it must've really cut him deeply when Zach found a girlfriend (July '97) that he could share personal stuff with and in so doing, could feel happier because a relationship would distance the loneliness. It was probably like his sounding board (or therapist?) was gone and he felt all alone with his suicidal thoughts, anger and jealousy.

Oct '97
"[edited] lucky bastard gets a perfect soulmate, who he can admit FUCKIN SUICIDE to & I get rejected for being honest about fuckin hate for jocks."

a little later on in the same entry: [i]"Abandonment is present for the martyr"

Dylan's bond with Eric was more like a rebound friendship. Dylan must have transferred his bond to Eric because anything was better than feeling lonely and abandoned.


Nov '97
"[edited] will get me a gun, ill go on my killing spree against anyone I want."

Here, I don't think he's referring to Zach. I've never read anywhere that Zach was into guns the way Eric was. Maybe Dylan heard around from Eric or via Blackjacks about someone that could supply guns such as Mark Manes? That someone was edited out. This must have been before Eric and Dylan had a meeting of the minds for NBK.

Dylan may have vocalized the notion of a spree first but I also think in his state of despair that he toyed with the fantasy of a spree like he fantasied about suicide in his journal. Just not equally. Suicide thoughts still outnumber the 'spree' thoughts. I believe that suicide was his number one - but he couldn't manage doing that all by himself. I'm certain that there are many depressed teens out there that freely say whatever they like in their journal in a state of angst. Many that talk about killing people, having revenge, going on sprees, raping (yes Eric did that but I don't think his rape fantasy makes him a mastermind rapist). But expressing it doesn't mean they will do it. It's emotional cartharsis, a way to get the feelings out and relieve the frustration. Doesn't mean that at that moment they are dead seriously planning anything.

Eric hadn't even started his journal around the time that Dylan did. I would wager that if Eric had started his journal before Dylan did or around the time Dylan did, you could bet there would be plenty of spree-isms in it. Eric did have his website and he was quite specific about the violence he had in mind. He was quite the active, goal oriented, check-off-the-list Aries. He was what Dylan needed to help put him on track and make the goal realized.

Feb '98
Soon... either ill commit suicide, or I'll get w. [edited] & it will be NBK for us. My hapiness. her hapiness. NOTHING else matters.

Once again, Dylan's first choice is suicide. Then he fantasies the homicide solution.. maybe Zach? or..maybe the girl of his dreams? will go NBK with him. Because he can't stand the thought of doing it alone. He needed someone with him or else he didn't quite have the guts to follow through. You can chalk that up to depression. It has nothing to do with being simply the 'passive follower.' Depression just kills self motivation. Just look at the struggle with his grades in school.

June '98
1.5 human years... so much changed in small time, my friends (at my choice) are depleting & collapsing under each other (Eric & ___) like I thought they would. I'm ready to be with ______. This is prob. my last entry. I love myself a close second to _____ my everlasting love. goodbye.

Dylan thinks that not only Zach has left him but now also Eric. Not sure why he is thinking this of Eric at this point in time unless his parents have tried to separate them? Or maybe Dylan is distancing himself voluntarily? "(at my choice)" Again, Toying with suicide: "goodbye" and then I can be with my soulmate on the other side. He actually spends a lot of time in entries saying essentially 'goodbye everyone' or along the lines of 'yep, no really, this will be the last journal entry.' But, he just doesn't have the guts to go alone.

Jan '99
I hate this non thinking statis. I'm stuck in humanity. maybe going "NBK" (gawd) with Eric is the way to break free. I hate this.

Still stuck. Hm..suicide alone (can't do it) or homicide with Eric (GAWD) and then we can both end it together. Decisions, decisions..I hate this. So, by Jan '99, he has been planning this whole thing with Eric over the course of a year and yet still vascillating on how to break free from the world. I was always wondering what the emphasis of (gawd) meant. When I read it, it seems like an exasperation. heh. I mean, if he was happy and thrilled about going on a rampage, why not put (hahahah! YES!) in parentheses?

Anyway, that's about how I see it. I know some of you here think he is the original mastermind of NBK but to me, Dylan originally started his journal with the intent to "throw out his thoughts". That would include exorcising all his dark demons (like most people do) sadness, anger, jealousy. He tosses out the idea of a spree and people jump on that as if he is the Dr. Evil beyond the entire operation. Mind you, during that time, shooting sprees were taking place in schools. So, why wouldn't he toss out that idea in a fit of journal anger? It was in fashion in the '90s! But to be fair, Dylan spends a great deal more time contemplating suicide rather than homicide in his journal. Yes, his spree statement is written first before Eric but technically, Eric didn't start his journal at the same time as Dylan so it's not quite a fair assessment. Dylan just had a head start with the personal journal and Eric had the webpage to exorcise and direct his anger. Dylan was too caught up in his vascillation of depression, self loathing, resentment/jealousy of others that he, at least in my perspective, didn't have the momentum. Once both Eric and Dylan had a meeting of the minds about the idea of NBK, Dylan was a deligent and loyal soldier to their joint cause. The icing on the cake for him was to die, to be free of the world.

Well, that's my .50 cents worth and, hey, no offense to 'Team Eric' ;)

InFiNiNcEX5 wrote:

areyoulistening wrote:

It was something like he wanted Zach to do it with him but then he got with Devon Adams so he and Dylan weren't as close anymore and in swooped Harris right?

Zach Heckler seems the only likely choice. They touched base almost every night by phone, and I remember reading somewhere that they shared a bond in their depression. I think Dylan must have always considered Zach his number one best friend and it must've really cut him deeply when Zach found a girlfriend (July '97) that he could share personal stuff with and in so doing, could feel happier because a relationship would distance the loneliness. It was probably like his sounding board (or therapist?) was gone and he felt all alone with his suicidal thoughts, anger and jealousy.

Oct '97
"[edited] lucky bastard gets a perfect soulmate, who he can admit FUCKIN SUICIDE to & I get rejected for being honest about fuckin hate for jocks."

a little later on in the same entry: [i]"Abandonment is present for the martyr"

Dylan's bond with Eric was more like a rebound friendship. Dylan must have transferred his bond to Eric because anything was better than feeling lonely and abandoned.


Nov '97
"[edited] will get me a gun, ill go on my killing spree against anyone I want."

Here, I don't think he's referring to Zach. I've never read anywhere that Zach was into guns the way Eric was. Maybe Dylan heard around from Eric or via Blackjacks about someone that could supply guns such as Mark Manes? That someone was edited out. This must have been before Eric and Dylan had a meeting of the minds for NBK.

Dylan may have vocalized the notion of a spree first but I also think in his state of despair that he toyed with the fantasy of a spree like he fantasied about suicide in his journal. Just not equally. Suicide thoughts still outnumber the 'spree' thoughts. I believe that suicide was his number one - but he couldn't manage doing that all by himself. I'm certain that there are many depressed teens out there that freely say whatever they like in their journal in a state of angst. Many that talk about killing people, having revenge, going on sprees, raping (yes Eric did that but I don't think his rape fantasy makes him a mastermind rapist). But expressing it doesn't mean they will do it. It's emotional cartharsis, a way to get the feelings out and relieve the frustration. Doesn't mean that at that moment they are dead seriously planning anything.

Eric hadn't even started his journal around the time that Dylan did. I would wager that if Eric had started his journal before Dylan did or around the time Dylan did, you could bet there would be plenty of spree-isms in it. Eric did have his website and he was quite specific about the violence he had in mind. He was quite the active, goal oriented, check-off-the-list Aries. He was what Dylan needed to help put him on track and make the goal realized.

Feb '98
Soon... either ill commit suicide, or I'll get w. [edited] & it will be NBK for us. My hapiness. her hapiness. NOTHING else matters.

Once again, Dylan's first choice is suicide. Then he fantasies the homicide solution.. maybe Zach? or..maybe the girl of his dreams? will go NBK with him. Because he can't stand the thought of doing it alone. He needed someone with him or else he didn't quite have the guts to follow through. You can chalk that up to depression. It has nothing to do with being simply the 'passive follower.' Depression just kills self motivation. Just look at the struggle with his grades in school.

June '98
1.5 human years... so much changed in small time, my friends (at my choice) are depleting & collapsing under each other (Eric & ___) like I thought they would. I'm ready to be with ______. This is prob. my last entry. I love myself a close second to _____ my everlasting love. goodbye.

Dylan thinks that not only Zach has left him but now also Eric. Not sure why he is thinking this of Eric at this point in time unless his parents have tried to separate them? Or maybe Dylan is distancing himself voluntarily? "(at my choice)" Again, Toying with suicide: "goodbye" and then I can be with my soulmate on the other side. He actually spends a lot of time in entries saying essentially 'goodbye everyone' or along the lines of 'yep, no really, this will be the last journal entry.' But, he just doesn't have the guts to go alone.

Jan '99
I hate this non thinking statis. I'm stuck in humanity. maybe going "NBK" (gawd) with Eric is the way to break free. I hate this.

Still stuck. Hm..suicide alone (can't do it) or homicide with Eric (GAWD) and then we can both end it together. Decisions, decisions..I hate this. So, by Jan '99, he has been planning this whole thing with Eric over the course of a year and yet still vascillating on how to break free from the world. I was always wondering what the emphasis of (gawd) meant. When I read it, it seems like an exasperation. heh. I mean, if he was happy and thrilled about going on a rampage, why not put (hahahah! YES!) in parentheses?

Anyway, that's about how I see it. I know some of you here think he is the original mastermind of NBK but to me, Dylan originally started his journal with the intent to "throw out his thoughts". That would include exorcising all his dark demons (like most people do) sadness, anger, jealousy. He tosses out the idea of a spree and people jump on that as if he is the Dr. Evil beyond the entire operation. Mind you, during that time, shooting sprees were taking place in schools. So, why wouldn't he toss out that idea in a fit of journal anger? It was in fashion in the '90s! But to be fair, Dylan spends a great deal more time contemplating suicide rather than homicide in his journal. Yes, his spree statement is written first before Eric but technically, Eric didn't start his journal at the same time as Dylan so it's not quite a fair assessment. Dylan just had a head start with the personal journal and Eric had the webpage to exorcise and direct his anger. Dylan was too caught up in his vascillation of depression, self loathing, resentment/jealousy of others that he, at least in my perspective, didn't have the momentum. Once both Eric and Dylan had a meeting of the minds about the idea of NBK, Dylan was a deligent and loyal soldier to their joint cause. The icing on the cake for him was to die, to be free of the world.

Well, that's my .50 cents worth and, hey, no offense to 'Team Eric' ;)

Whoa, great aggregation!

OMG: A Dylan Klebold threat!! This guy is bugging me like you wouldn't believe, really stuck inside my head! GTFO!

This guy has been such a big mistery! So many questions, Gaaaawd!!! How can anybody fool the world like he did? And so many contradictions on his personallity. And then this really vague diary.

On the one hand there are his friends and parents, who say he was this sweet, shy, akward, goofy, intelligent and funny guy, on the other hand we have witnesses who say he was an angry, mean motherfucker, who was violent to women.

In his jounal he is just a sad sad grazy person, with sometimes really smart remarks, wise beyond his years, other times very childish(poor little me, I lost my Zippo and some money, and now I want to die). Declares himself to be some kind of perv, but only reveals fantasies of cuddling with some girl. And who is this girl...or were these girls?

He doesn't seem to care much for Eric in his writings, but yet they were together a lot and in the end he died together with the very same guy.

I agree with InFININcEX5 that I am not sure that Dylan is the one that came up with the whole idea, but Eric wasn't some leader...IMO Dylan used Eric to finally kill himself. I stiil don't understand why that would be easier after killing a couple of hundreds of kids first???

I guess I will never know

tragedy79 wrote:

OMG: A Dylan Klebold threat!! This guy is bugging me like you wouldn't believe, really stuck inside my head! GTFO!

This guy has been such a big mistery! So many questions, Gaaaawd!!! How can anybody fool the world like he did? And so many contradictions on his personallity. And then this really vague diary.

On the one hand there are his friends and parents, who say he was this sweet, shy, akward, goofy, intelligent and funny guy, on the other hand we have witnesses who say he was an angry, mean motherfucker, who was violent to women.

In his jounal he is just a sad sad grazy person, with sometimes really smart remarks, wise beyond his years, other times very childish(poor little me, I lost my Zippo and some money, and now I want to die). Declares himself to be some kind of perv, but only reveals fantasies of cuddling with some girl. And who is this girl...or were these girls?

He doesn't seem to care much for Eric in his writings, but yet they were together a lot and in the end he died together with the very same guy.

I agree with InFININcEX5 that I am not sure that Dylan is the one that came up with the whole idea, but Eric wasn't some leader...IMO Dylan used Eric to finally kill himself. I stiil don't understand why that would be easier after killing a couple of hundreds of kids first???

I guess I will never know

I think the "I'll kill with you if you die with me" theory works quite well here actually. It's interesting to note the dichotomy between the two journals. Dylan rarely talks about Eric and when he does always refers to him as simply Eric whilst Eric is caught up in using nicknames and usually refers to Dylan as Vodka. Some people have gone so far as to say Eric cared about Dylan more than Dylan reciprocated (the Browns said this as well).

It's hard to imagine either of them as a true "leader." They were both horribly insecure with themselves. But Eric had homicidal fantasies and Dylan had suicidal fantasies and NBK seemed to be the aggregate of these two fantasies coming together. Both parts are essential axioms to the plan happening, and I don't think either one was more important than the other. Whoever had the idea first matters not because the collective sum of these two children led to Columbine.

I really can't match the Dylan from his journals with the Dylan of the massacre day

Laeda wrote:

I really can't match the Dylan from his journals with the Dylan of the massacre day

Exactly!! I can´t even match the Dylan from his jounals with friends/family descriptions and then on the massacre day he is completely different again!!

It just doesn't add up to say that Dylan was the passive follower. He was the one hollering up a storm the day of and looking like he was enjoying himself the most. He wasn't shy then.

I just find it strange that nobody saw it coming with Dylan. Eric couldn't hide the fact that he had a temper, heck he wrote on his website about wanting to kill people. Dylan never broke character, his mask never slipped. That's just baffling to me. I know I'll never have a definite answer but I'd like to make some sense of him.

Hale-Bopp wrote:

InFiNiNcEX5 wrote:

areyoulistening wrote:

It was something like he wanted Zach to do it with him but then he got with Devon Adams so he and Dylan weren't as close anymore and in swooped Harris right?

Zach Heckler seems the only likely choice. They touched base almost every night by phone, and I remember reading somewhere that they shared a bond in their depression. I think Dylan must have always considered Zach his number one best friend and it must've really cut him deeply when Zach found a girlfriend (July '97) that he could share personal stuff with and in so doing, could feel happier because a relationship would distance the loneliness. It was probably like his sounding board (or therapist?) was gone and he felt all alone with his suicidal thoughts, anger and jealousy.

Oct '97
"[edited] lucky bastard gets a perfect soulmate, who he can admit FUCKIN SUICIDE to & I get rejected for being honest about fuckin hate for jocks."

a little later on in the same entry: [i]"Abandonment is present for the martyr"

Dylan's bond with Eric was more like a rebound friendship. Dylan must have transferred his bond to Eric because anything was better than feeling lonely and abandoned.


Nov '97
"[edited] will get me a gun, ill go on my killing spree against anyone I want."

Here, I don't think he's referring to Zach. I've never read anywhere that Zach was into guns the way Eric was. Maybe Dylan heard around from Eric or via Blackjacks about someone that could supply guns such as Mark Manes? That someone was edited out. This must have been before Eric and Dylan had a meeting of the minds for NBK.

Dylan may have vocalized the notion of a spree first but I also think in his state of despair that he toyed with the fantasy of a spree like he fantasied about suicide in his journal. Just not equally. Suicide thoughts still outnumber the 'spree' thoughts. I believe that suicide was his number one - but he couldn't manage doing that all by himself. I'm certain that there are many depressed teens out there that freely say whatever they like in their journal in a state of angst. Many that talk about killing people, having revenge, going on sprees, raping (yes Eric did that but I don't think his rape fantasy makes him a mastermind rapist). But expressing it doesn't mean they will do it. It's emotional cartharsis, a way to get the feelings out and relieve the frustration. Doesn't mean that at that moment they are dead seriously planning anything.

Eric hadn't even started his journal around the time that Dylan did. I would wager that if Eric had started his journal before Dylan did or around the time Dylan did, you could bet there would be plenty of spree-isms in it. Eric did have his website and he was quite specific about the violence he had in mind. He was quite the active, goal oriented, check-off-the-list Aries. He was what Dylan needed to help put him on track and make the goal realized.

Feb '98
Soon... either ill commit suicide, or I'll get w. [edited] & it will be NBK for us. My hapiness. her hapiness. NOTHING else matters.

Once again, Dylan's first choice is suicide. Then he fantasies the homicide solution.. maybe Zach? or..maybe the girl of his dreams? will go NBK with him. Because he can't stand the thought of doing it alone. He needed someone with him or else he didn't quite have the guts to follow through. You can chalk that up to depression. It has nothing to do with being simply the 'passive follower.' Depression just kills self motivation. Just look at the struggle with his grades in school.

June '98
1.5 human years... so much changed in small time, my friends (at my choice) are depleting & collapsing under each other (Eric & ___) like I thought they would. I'm ready to be with ______. This is prob. my last entry. I love myself a close second to _____ my everlasting love. goodbye.

Dylan thinks that not only Zach has left him but now also Eric. Not sure why he is thinking this of Eric at this point in time unless his parents have tried to separate them? Or maybe Dylan is distancing himself voluntarily? "(at my choice)" Again, Toying with suicide: "goodbye" and then I can be with my soulmate on the other side. He actually spends a lot of time in entries saying essentially 'goodbye everyone' or along the lines of 'yep, no really, this will be the last journal entry.' But, he just doesn't have the guts to go alone.

Jan '99
I hate this non thinking statis. I'm stuck in humanity. maybe going "NBK" (gawd) with Eric is the way to break free. I hate this.

Still stuck. Hm..suicide alone (can't do it) or homicide with Eric (GAWD) and then we can both end it together. Decisions, decisions..I hate this. So, by Jan '99, he has been planning this whole thing with Eric over the course of a year and yet still vascillating on how to break free from the world. I was always wondering what the emphasis of (gawd) meant. When I read it, it seems like an exasperation. heh. I mean, if he was happy and thrilled about going on a rampage, why not put (hahahah! YES!) in parentheses?

Anyway, that's about how I see it. I know some of you here think he is the original mastermind of NBK but to me, Dylan originally started his journal with the intent to "throw out his thoughts". That would include exorcising all his dark demons (like most people do) sadness, anger, jealousy. He tosses out the idea of a spree and people jump on that as if he is the Dr. Evil beyond the entire operation. Mind you, during that time, shooting sprees were taking place in schools. So, why wouldn't he toss out that idea in a fit of journal anger? It was in fashion in the '90s! But to be fair, Dylan spends a great deal more time contemplating suicide rather than homicide in his journal. Yes, his spree statement is written first before Eric but technically, Eric didn't start his journal at the same time as Dylan so it's not quite a fair assessment. Dylan just had a head start with the personal journal and Eric had the webpage to exorcise and direct his anger. Dylan was too caught up in his vascillation of depression, self loathing, resentment/jealousy of others that he, at least in my perspective, didn't have the momentum. Once both Eric and Dylan had a meeting of the minds about the idea of NBK, Dylan was a deligent and loyal soldier to their joint cause. The icing on the cake for him was to die, to be free of the world.

Well, that's my .50 cents worth and, hey, no offense to 'Team Eric' ;)

Whoa, great aggregation!

TY. :-) I know some think Dylan's journal comes across chaotic and nutty but in my mind the feeling and motivations are clear. There's a definitive, gradual arc of devolution via each dated entry.

areyoulistening wrote:

What's the consensus about him?

I don't really know much on him, what's your views?

I've heard a lot of conflicting stories about him, which are just that. Stories.

But I'm interested in what he's perceived as being, besides the lapdog of dictator Eric Harris.
I just find that very demeaning to his memory, that he would be remembered not only as a murderer but as a helpless follower.
Maybe that's what he wanted? I don't know. As I've said, I don't know much about him.

Help a brother out?

Overall, I get why people think Dylan was just crazy:

-he could be immature
-he could be an asshole when he wanted to be
-he fooled alot of people
-he supposedly drank alot
-he depended too heavily on others for his identity
-he had a unique (some may say warped) view of love
-he fell in "love" easily
-he developed strong infatuations w/ girls he barely knew
-he wrote about (not necessarily thought up) killing first in his journal & said "my killing spree" (ahem, the only two references he makes to killing in his journal, as opposed to Eric's nearly entire journal being about anger & killing)
-he laughed while killing people (Eric did that as well)

However, I see it as:

-the boy was 17 years old {that might account for some of the immaturity  }
-people, especially young boys, can be assholes sometimes; it's not uncommon
-he was too ashamed to talk about his problems openly (agreeing w/ his mother on that)
-drinking was one of several coping mechanisms he was trying (in addition to writing, fantasizing, taking St. John's Wort, & so forth)
-he was still figuring out who he was
-I personally think his views on love are BEAUTIFUL
-he was desperate for a human connection of real substance with a friend and/or a female
-he was starved for affection
-he was licking his wounds w/ that first mention of killing (mad/sad that Devon "stole" the best friend he ever had)
-the killing spree comment was either him blowing off steam and/or his demons getting the better of him (I could swear above that in the same journal entry it says "I get more depressed with each day.....more EVIL....& I can't ever stop it!!" Every translation I've seen says the word is "shit" instead of "evil." I'm not really disputing it, just making an observation. You know..his handwriting sometimes  )
-his laughing during the ordeal was a combination of: the adrenaline rush, trying to impress Eric, scaring the shit out of everyone even more to make it stick (if you're gonna do a massacre, you don't wanna be the guy who folded during; gotta keep up a badass image), the hope that he'd soon be with his love in the halycon, the "letting go" of it all, & not caring because he was dying momentarily. {not that any of that excuses what he did}
-he's BEAUTIFUL (yeah, I said it--whatcha gonna do? )

I don't think this is as easy as putting one down as a follower and one as a leader. I don't think they could've made this thing work on their own. They both needed the other in order to make this happen at all. Eric took on the preparation work more than Dylan did, sure, but that doesn't make him the evil genius in all of this. Dylan was smart enough to be able to make the same sort of plans and preparations, but he got in his own way due to his depression and his underachieving laziness. They must've talked their plans and the prep work over a fair few times, so it's just not likely to me that Dylan had no part in the plotting. I think that Eric had more of a 'take charge'-personality overall, whereas Dylan was more the quiet driving force. (I've described this relationship before as Dylan having the puzzle pieces and Eric having the glue to stick them together.) I don't think Dylan was in the kind of space that allowed him to reciprocate Eric's friendship fully, because his one true best friend was Zach and Zach 'left him'. It's an injured Dylan who finally connects with Eric. Eric sees Dylan as a best friend.. Dylan sees Eric as a means to an end. Yet, they eventually build up a relationship so trusting and 'equal' that they kill together and die together. They clicked with one another over a mutual loathing of the human race, but their motivations for the eventual NBK-plan were never truly the same. They worked well enough together, though, and they established a working relationship. (I have always, always wondered if and to what extent Dylan surprised Eric on 4/20.)

I think Dylan was very intelligent, possibly even gifted, and that he had some trouble connecting with/relating to his peers because of this. I think that he was an introverted person who became very shy over the course of the years. I think that he bottled a lot of what he was feeling up until something made him 'snap', which would explain some of the reports about him pushing people in gym class and that sort of thing. I suspect that he felt so 'different' from almost everybody around him that he began to see himself as non-human to the point where he fashioned himself a god. Dylan was very self-reliant in a way that didn't allow him to stop and think about asking for help. He was starved for affection, but didn't always know how to connect. I think he could be a sweetheart with people he really liked, but I also think that he would've kept any dislikes to himself without visibly demonstrating that dislike directly to that person. I think he was the better actor of the duo, really. Everybody expected this from Eric, who was far more vocal in his anger, but nobody saw it coming from 'sweet shy Dylan'. Dylan could uphold this façade of the nice but underachieving kid throughout diversion, throughout school, and throughout his homelife. He dropped that mask only in his journal, probably in the basement tapes, and on the final day of his life. It must have been liberating for him, that day, to let go of that last fragment of 'humanity'. The laughter really says it all: he was, finally, a free man doing what he wanted to do. I don't believe he cared much about anything outside of the reunion with his True Love and leaving the human race behind forever. Eric is still in the apologetic zone at the time of the basement tapes, even on that very last morning of their lives, but Dylan has no such thing holding him back. Why should he apologise for taking a few more of those pesky humans out on his road to the halcyon? Why should he apologise to his family, when the decision on what to do with the life they gave him is not theirs to make? Dylan's the more callous one of the two, in my opinion. There are no regrets for his own death and everyone he kills leading up to that should be thanking him for doing them a favour. (I believe Dylan was the more dangerous and terrifying one of the duo. That doesn't mean I discount the part of him that could obviously be very kind, goofy, and sweet. It just means that he had a lot more people fooled about the other side of the coin.)

tragedy79 wrote:

OMG: A Dylan Klebold threat!! This guy is bugging me like you wouldn't believe, really stuck inside my head! GTFO!

This guy has been such a big mistery! So many questions, Gaaaawd!!! How can anybody fool the world like he did? And so many contradictions on his personallity. And then this really vague  diary.

On the one hand there are his friends and parents, who say he was this sweet, shy, akward, goofy, intelligent and funny guy, on the other hand we have witnesses who say he was an angry, mean motherfucker, who was violent to women.

In his jounal he is just a sad sad grazy person, with sometimes really smart remarks, wise beyond his years, other times very childish(poor little me, I lost my Zippo and some money, and now I want to die). Declares himself to be some kind of perv, but only reveals fantasies of cuddling with some girl. And who is this girl...or were these girls?

He doesn't seem to care much for Eric in his writings, but yet they were together a lot and in the end he died together with the very same guy.

I agree with InFININcEX5 that I am not sure that Dylan is the one that came up with the whole idea, but Eric wasn't some leader...IMO Dylan used Eric to finally kill himself. I stiil don't understand why that would be easier after killing a couple of hundreds of kids first???

I guess I will never know

"Declares himself to be some kind of perv..."

This bit just got me thinking:

I know this doesn't apply to everyone; I just wonder if some chicks get into or are into Dylan because of the foot fetish/bondage/masturbation/porno thing. Not saying it's the only thing they're interested in of course, just wonder how big of a role it played/plays. Like Eric & his "rape" fantasy (it's too tame for rape in my opinion; I think it's just hormones/wanting to be manly). As if, for Dylan, they may think something to the effect of: he's just inhibited..I'd bring him right out of that...show him it's natural to be 'naughty' LOL. That could work, but I think he really felt that his love wouldn't approve of him doing certain things such as looking at/masturbating to porn---the women, the scenes & such. And, he was so big on 'purity' that he was ashamed of associating with something 'impure' not just because society might say it's vulgar, but a real internalization of that concept. Just another one of my (probably useless) passing thoughts  Carry on.

I personally believe that both Eric and Dylan were equally involved in the planning process, and that's why the whole of the basement tapes haven't been released, as it would contradict the theory cobbled together by the FBI and make them look bad in the process. Also, I believe that Dylan was a lot angrier than most people seem to bring up, he was likely on Eric's level of anger. It was simply different things that tipped him off. Take the arguments at Blackjack for example. Also, I think both Eric and Dylan were both a part of the process of making NBK a reality. After all, speaking from experience, it takes a lot of damn practice to fire a sawn-off shotgun with one hand, and one of the bombs was named "VoDka's Revenge" if I remember correctly.

All in all, Dylan was a lot more involved, and more disturbed, than most seem to believe.