Another Columbine Shooting?

Is the school a better place now? Worse? Do you think there could be a second shooting there someday?

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A second shooting can occur pretty much everywhere. Malls, other shcools, public buildings, government offices.

Sabratha wrote:

A second shooting can occur pretty much everywhere. Malls, other shcools, public buildings, government offices.

Right. But do you think a shooting is more or less likely to happen at Columbine today than on 4-20-99?

A "repeat" of the crime is unpredictable, it may or may not happen depending on the people within the vicinity, and the likelihood of someone (a duo, more rather) devoting themselves towards repeating a pre-existing crime. Taking into consideration the publicity of the Columbine shootings, I'd say the odds are higher than the default risk, but definitely not as likely to be carried out any time soon.

The best examples of this would obviously be the Fort Hood Shootings, which occurred in 2009 and 2014 respectively. Oh, and there were two Isla Vista killings (2001 and 2014).

Pretty certain that another event like it will happen again. There's already been a few, as we all know. Although it hasn't happened, to that extent, at a US High School in last 16 years. It's just gotten to the point now where you should always expect to hear them talk about Columbine in the aftermath of something even slightly associated with gun violence. And it seems to be only getting more frequent.

This is a tad off topic, I guess. But I had two different people who were in high school (Freshman and Senior) when Columbine happened, write on a anniversary gifset I made for a social media this past April 20th. Since there's the 'no linking to any SM account rule' on here, i'll just quote them.

Person 1: "You wouldn’t know it from watching the news today, but this didn’t used to be commonplace. I was a senior in high school when the Columbine shooting happened, and because I was in the eastern time zone, was already at my afterschool job when this story broke. I, along with almost all of my colleagues and our customers, watched the televisions, horrified as the details came out supplemented by the live feed. These were kids OUR AGE. This wasn’t a thing that people did.

I don’t mean this to sound “pollyanna-ish,” just to remind you that there was a time, not so long ago, that school shootings were rare. Rare enough that the entire country stood still and wept."

Person 2: "I was a freshman when this occurred. We all sat in disbelief the next day and each of our teachers from 1st to 7th period addressed the issues as if we had just lost loved ones and needed counseling. It was unheard of. Reckless evil being unloaded upon an innocent crowd. The few that had cell phones back then called their parents and police to alert them of the rampage. No texting, no internet, no camera, which is the saddest part of our technological advances over 16 years in that the majority of people utilize these features to spread hatred, fear, mockery, and snippets of life events to distort the truth for their own selfish ambition or destruction of someone else’s. The teens that I coach and mentor today have so much information lying and gossiping in the form of “entertainment” that there is such de-sensitivity to the things that once made us cringe growing up. It breaks my heart."

It just made someone like me (who was obviously young when Columbine happened) sit and think about how much everything has changed since 1999, & IMO hasn't changed for the better when it comes to some things. So, I don't think we'll even be able to compare them if it happens again in the near future.

Gustopoet2 wrote:

Sabratha wrote:

A second shooting can occur pretty much everywhere. Malls, other shcools, public buildings, government offices.

Right. But do you think a shooting is more or less likely to happen at Columbine today than on 4-20-99?

I think its more likely that a columbine-style will occur, though perhaps not much more likley that it will succeed.

People are more aware now, there were possible shooting plans foiled becuase people seen warning signs.

However, on the flip side shooters (E&D in particular) became famous and the potential for copycats is big. Moreover people who would have otherwise just commited suicide now often start asking themselves questions like: "If I'm gonna go anywyas, why not leave a burning hole behind?". Columbine and other shootings helped to enable this sort of reasoning amongst suicidal people.

I also thi9nk that schools, especially US ones after Sandy Hook, are better prepared and armed guards as well as simple elements like procedures and each class being locked from the inside etc... these will hopefully help lower the bodycount during the next shooting.

Perhaps the school security will be seen as such detrimental to the outcome, that future school shooters will change their minds and choose to become "mall shooters", "church shooters" or otherwise bring violence ouside of the shcool and into the wider community.

Dataverse wrote:

A "repeat" of the crime is unpredictable, it may or may not happen depending on the people within the vicinity, and the likelihood of someone (a duo, more rather) devoting themselves towards repeating a pre-existing crime. Taking into consideration the publicity of the Columbine shootings, I'd say the odds are higher than the default risk, but definitely not as likely to be carried out any time soon.

The best examples of this would obviously be the Fort Hood Shootings, which occurred in 2009 and 2014 respectively. Oh, and there were two Isla Vista killings (2001 and 2014).

Nice points, Dataverse.

paradisedreams wrote:

Pretty certain that another event like it will happen again. There's already been a few, as we all know. Although it hasn't happened, to that extent, at a US High School in last 16 years. It's just gotten to the point now where you should always expect to hear them talk about Columbine in the aftermath of something even slightly associated with gun violence. And it seems to be only getting more frequent.

This is a tad off topic, I guess. But I had two different people who were in high school (Freshman and Senior) when Columbine happened, write on a anniversary gifset I made for a social media this past April 20th. Since there's the 'no linking to any SM account rule' on here, i'll just quote them.

Person 1: "You wouldn’t know it from watching the news today, but this didn’t used to be commonplace. I was a senior in high school when the Columbine shooting happened, and because I was in the eastern time zone, was already at my afterschool job when this story broke. I, along with almost all of my colleagues and our customers, watched the televisions, horrified as the details came out supplemented by the live feed. These were kids OUR AGE. This wasn’t a thing that people did.

I don’t mean this to sound “pollyanna-ish,” just to remind you that there was a time, not so long ago, that school shootings were rare. Rare enough that the entire country stood still and wept."

Person 2: "I was a freshman when this occurred. We all sat in disbelief the next day and each of our teachers from 1st to 7th period addressed the issues as if we had just lost loved ones and needed counseling. It was unheard of. Reckless evil being unloaded upon an innocent crowd. The few that had cell phones back then called their parents and police to alert them of the rampage. No texting, no internet, no camera, which is the saddest part of our technological advances over 16 years in that the majority of people utilize these features to spread hatred, fear, mockery, and snippets of life events to distort the truth for their own selfish ambition or destruction of someone else’s. The teens that I coach and mentor today have so much information lying and gossiping in the form of “entertainment” that there is such de-sensitivity to the things that once made us cringe growing up. It breaks my heart."

It just made someone like me (who was obviously young when Columbine happened) sit and think about how much everything has changed since 1999, & IMO hasn't changed for the better when it comes to some things. So, I don't think we'll even be able to compare them if it happens again in the near future.

Paradisedreams -- excellent post. I do think that cyber-bullying has made things much worse for teens and outcasts of all types. You also make a very good point about the way we've become desensitized to mass shootings and school shootings. I think Columbine was a "wake up call" for America and we as a culture are ignoring that call on every level. Instead of learning from Columbine (like those in the forum try to do) the culture as a whole just went into denial.

Sabratha wrote:

Gustopoet2 wrote:

Sabratha wrote:

A second shooting can occur pretty much everywhere. Malls, other shcools, public buildings, government offices.

Right. But do you think a shooting is more or less likely to happen at Columbine today than on 4-20-99?

I think its more likely that a columbine-style will occur, though perhaps not much more likley that it will succeed.

People are more aware now, there were possible shooting plans foiled becuase people seen warning signs.

However, on the flip side shooters (E&D in particular) became famous and the potential for copycats is big. Moreover people who would have otherwise just commited suicide now often start asking themselves questions like: "If I'm gonna go anywyas, why not leave a burning hole behind?". Columbine and other shootings helped to enable this sort of reasoning amongst suicidal people.

I also thi9nk that schools, especially US ones after Sandy Hook, are better prepared and armed guards as well as simple elements like procedures and each class being locked from the inside etc... these will hopefully help lower the bodycount during the next shooting.

Perhaps the school security will be seen as such detrimental to the outcome, that future school shooters will change their minds and choose to become "mall shooters", "church shooters" or otherwise bring violence ouside of the shcool and into the wider community.

Do you (or anyone else) know what kind of security measures were enacted at Columbine after the shooting? Metal detectors? Armed teachers?  As a rule I am against arming to the teeth to prevent violence, but it would not surprise me in the least if that was the path the powers that be have decided is the best way to deal with potential shootings.

I think it's likely to happen at Columbine again, yes. I also think that the bullying is a lot worse now than it was back in 1999. Mostly because of the access to social media/text messaging. And from the sounds of things, Columbine is no better than they were back in 1999. The kids in sports/jocks being favored. They are still big on sports and as far as I know, the principal still claims bullying never went on there. Did they even fix the root of the problem to begin with? I don't think so.

And not only that but there is the fact that it's already happened there once before. All it will take is one student who sympathizes with Dylan and Eric and feels like they are getting the same kind of treatment the boys did to commit another Columbine.  

And sure, you can tighten security, put up metal detectors and have as many school cops on the property as you want but that isn't going to stop one determined student who hates that school and feels neglected, left out and bullied to find some way to sneak a gun onto the property and cause another school shooting. It is still happening 16 years AFTER Columbine happened and more frequently now too. Back then, you rarely heard about school shootings. Now? When you hear about a school shooting it's just 'oh, another school shooting happened today'. I know that sounds terrible but that is the harsh truth of the matter.

So yes, another Columbine could happen and is more likely to happen now than back in 1999. That is my thoughts on it anyways.

Gustopoet2 wrote:

paradisedreams wrote:

Pretty certain that another event like it will happen again. There's already been a few, as we all know. Although it hasn't happened, to that extent, at a US High School in last 16 years. It's just gotten to the point now where you should always expect to hear them talk about Columbine in the aftermath of something even slightly associated with gun violence. And it seems to be only getting more frequent.

This is a tad off topic, I guess. But I had two different people who were in high school (Freshman and Senior) when Columbine happened, write on a anniversary gifset I made for a social media this past April 20th. Since there's the 'no linking to any SM account rule' on here, i'll just quote them.

Person 1: "You wouldn’t know it from watching the news today, but this didn’t used to be commonplace. I was a senior in high school when the Columbine shooting happened, and because I was in the eastern time zone, was already at my afterschool job when this story broke. I, along with almost all of my colleagues and our customers, watched the televisions, horrified as the details came out supplemented by the live feed. These were kids OUR AGE. This wasn’t a thing that people did.

I don’t mean this to sound “pollyanna-ish,” just to remind you that there was a time, not so long ago, that school shootings were rare. Rare enough that the entire country stood still and wept."

Person 2: "I was a freshman when this occurred. We all sat in disbelief the next day and each of our teachers from 1st to 7th period addressed the issues as if we had just lost loved ones and needed counseling. It was unheard of. Reckless evil being unloaded upon an innocent crowd. The few that had cell phones back then called their parents and police to alert them of the rampage. No texting, no internet, no camera, which is the saddest part of our technological advances over 16 years in that the majority of people utilize these features to spread hatred, fear, mockery, and snippets of life events to distort the truth for their own selfish ambition or destruction of someone else’s. The teens that I coach and mentor today have so much information lying and gossiping in the form of “entertainment” that there is such de-sensitivity to the things that once made us cringe growing up. It breaks my heart."

It just made someone like me (who was obviously young when Columbine happened) sit and think about how much everything has changed since 1999, & IMO hasn't changed for the better when it comes to some things. So, I don't think we'll even be able to compare them if it happens again in the near future.

Paradisedreams -- excellent post. I do think that cyber-bullying has made things much worse for teens and outcasts of all types. You also make a very good point about the way we've become desensitized to mass shootings and school shootings. I think Columbine was a "wake up call" for America and we as a culture are ignoring that call on every level. Instead of learning from Columbine (like those in the forum try to do) the culture as a whole just went into denial.

I know that the security was upped for the outside of most schools. When we all know 98% of the shootings are done by student(s) who were currently attending them. And from what I remember is that the "doors locked on every classroom door & non main entrances" law wasn't completely forced until about 2006/2007. The only noticeable major change has been how long law enforcement waits until they enter the school.

People always say that maybe if there was social media, smart phones, etc. back then could have made some kind of a difference. But how I see it is that there is nothing more that kids could do now, than what most did back in 1999. Except you would be able to ask for help without actually saying anything.

Jenn wrote:

I think it's likely to happen at Columbine again, yes. I also think that the bullying is a lot worse now than it was back in 1999. Mostly because of the access to social media/text messaging. And from the sounds of things, Columbine is no better than they were back in 1999. The kids in sports/jocks being favored. They are still big on sports and as far as I know, the principal still claims bullying never went on there. Did they even fix the root of the problem to begin with? I don't think so.

And not only that but there is the fact that it's already happened there once before. All it will take is one student who sympathizes with Dylan and Eric and feels like they are getting the same kind of treatment the boys did to commit another Columbine.  

And sure, you can tighten security, put up metal detectors and have as many school cops on the property as you want but that isn't going to stop one determined student who hates that school and feels neglected, left out and bullied to find some way to sneak a gun onto the property and cause another school shooting. It is still happening 16 years AFTER Columbine happened and more frequently now too. Back then, you rarely heard about school shootings. Now? When you hear about a school shooting it's just 'oh, another school shooting happened today'. I know that sounds terrible but that is the harsh truth of the matter.

So yes, another Columbine could happen and is more likely to happen now than back in 1999. That is my thoughts on it anyways.

We're in agreement here on all points.

I would just add that cyber-bullying makes the problem 'invisible" for most people so it is very troubling to consider the gauntlet kids now have to run just to have the privilege to grow up and spend their lives working for rich people someday and still have some shed of self-esteem left intact. Bullying on steroids, pretty much.

paradisedreams wrote:

People always say that maybe if there was social media, smart phones, etc. back then could have made some kind of a difference. But how I see it is that there is nothing more that kids could do now, than what most did back in 1999. Except you would be able to ask for help without actually saying anything.                                                                                                                                                                                    

You could also use social media to coordinate a mass attack (or attacks). That's something I am afraid we may see at some point. Like ten Eric and Dylans get going all at once.

Jenn wrote:

And sure, you can tighten security, put up metal detectors and have as many school cops on the property as you want but that isn't going to stop one determined student who hates that school and feels neglected, left out and bullied to find some way to sneak a gun onto the property and cause another school shooting. It is still happening 16 years AFTER Columbine happened and more frequently now too. Back then, you rarely heard about school shootings. Now? When you hear about a school shooting it's just 'oh, another school shooting happened today'. I know that sounds terrible but that is the harsh truth of the matter.

So yes, another Columbine could happen and is more likely to happen now than back in 1999. That is my thoughts on it anyways.

sure, just saying taht even if a shooting occurs, the shooter will not have a walk in the park like E&D did. He's gonna have less time and the students will more quickly realize what's going on. Teahcers will be more aware and will more quickly jumpt to claose all doors available. Not sayign tis a full proof defence, but it will make things harder on the shooter to get a high bodycount.

But most imporant, I trust taht the US population is more aware now. That a kid who writes a story like the one that Dylan wrote, will be noticed. That if a kid tells others taht he plans to bomb or shoot up his school, kids are going to report this and treat it seriously.

I think more plans will be foiled by witnessess who report threats than by metal detectors.

Sabratha wrote:

Jenn wrote:

And sure, you can tighten security, put up metal detectors and have as many school cops on the property as you want but that isn't going to stop one determined student who hates that school and feels neglected, left out and bullied to find some way to sneak a gun onto the property and cause another school shooting. It is still happening 16 years AFTER Columbine happened and more frequently now too. Back then, you rarely heard about school shootings. Now? When you hear about a school shooting it's just 'oh, another school shooting happened today'. I know that sounds terrible but that is the harsh truth of the matter.

So yes, another Columbine could happen and is more likely to happen now than back in 1999. That is my thoughts on it anyways.

sure, just saying taht even if a shooting occurs, the shooter will not have a walk in the park like E&D did. He's gonna have less time and the students will more quickly realize what's going on. Teahcers will be more aware and will more quickly jumpt to claose all doors available. Not sayign tis a full proof defence, but it will make things harder on the shooter to get a high bodycount.

But most imporant, I trust taht the US population is more aware now. That a kid who writes a story like the one that Dylan wrote, will be noticed. That if a kid tells others taht he plans to bomb or shoot up his school, kids are going to report this and treat it seriously.

I think more plans will be foiled by witnessess who report threats than by metal detectors.

High body count is irrelevant. Just one innocent child killed by a school shooter is too many. And security in America better now than it was in 1999? I don't think so. Look at Sandy Hook, look at the Aurora shooting and Virginia Tech even. All of these shootings happened years after Columbine. There has been plenty of time to try and fix the root of the problem when it comes to school shootings. It's almost certain another Columbine will happen. The question is just when and where? And why not at Columbine? It's happened once before. Surely, it could happen again.

And like I said, which I still say, you can do whatever you want to tighten up security but that is not going to stop a determined student to find some way to commit another school shooting. Like I said, school shootings happen MORE now than they did back then. If the schools have all these said plans to stop school shootings then how come they are still going on and going on daily? I don't think there has been more than a month or so that has gone by in the past 10 years that there hasn't been some kind of school shooting or threat to shoot up a school. Yes, a couple have been foiled but that was only because those kids planning it got sloppy. They told friends or they told other students not to show up that day or even posted their plans on social media. That has nothing to do with security tighten up or schools taking more precautions. That is because someone got messy when planning their attack.

Columbine is an excellent example. Here this school had a school shooting that clearly had to do with where these kids fit in on the social ladder. They've said it many, many times. They did it because they were ignored, felt left out and felt that jocks and popular kids got special treatment. That the jocks got away with treating the less popular kids like they owned the school and could do whatever they wanted to them and suffer no consequences from the teachers.

And here it is 16 years later and the jocks/popular kids are still getting treated better, treated like the whole school revolves around them. The school is all about 'sports, sports and more sports'. What they should be spending money on instead of more baseball bats, footballs and sports uniforms is programs and classes to help kids learn how to treat each other with respect, that everyone should be treated equal and that bullying is wrong. Instead, they still claim bullying doesn't go on there and never has. They should have more programs for kids who are troubled either be it from school or home. I don't see any of that happening. Yea, there are programs like Rachel's Challenge that charges school thousands upon thousands of dollars just to have a 1 hour school assembly. In my opinion, that does nothing for them. Schools need to address these problems every day not just once a year for an hour.

Then there is cyber bullying which is almost always never taken seriously. Kids have committed suicide, cut themselves, starve themselves and also plan or go through with school shootings because of how they've been treated and humiliated online. The problems just get worse and worse not any better.

In my opinion, the 2 biggest reasons for school shootings besides easy access to guns is bullying and mental illness. If these 2 things were addressed more and taken more seriously than they currently are, maybe then there would be some progress and decline in school shootings. If schools were as adamant about teaching kids not to bullying and helping them address and treat their mental illnesses as they are about sports things might be a lot better. But apparently how many games a school wins is more important than how many students are spared the pain, humiliation and sadness millions of them go through on a daily basis because of bullying and mental illness.

Sabratha wrote:

Jenn wrote:

And sure, you can tighten security, put up metal detectors and have as many school cops on the property as you want but that isn't going to stop one determined student who hates that school and feels neglected, left out and bullied to find some way to sneak a gun onto the property and cause another school shooting. It is still happening 16 years AFTER Columbine happened and more frequently now too. Back then, you rarely heard about school shootings. Now? When you hear about a school shooting it's just 'oh, another school shooting happened today'. I know that sounds terrible but that is the harsh truth of the matter.

So yes, another Columbine could happen and is more likely to happen now than back in 1999. That is my thoughts on it anyways.

sure, just saying taht even if a shooting occurs, the shooter will not have a walk in the park like E&D did. He's gonna have less time and the students will more quickly realize what's going on. Teahcers will be more aware and will more quickly jumpt to claose all doors available. Not sayign tis a full proof defence, but it will make things harder on the shooter to get a high bodycount.

But most imporant, I trust taht the US population is more aware now. That a kid who writes a story like the one that Dylan wrote, will be noticed. That if a kid tells others taht he plans to bomb or shoot up his school, kids are going to report this and treat it seriously.

I think more plans will be foiled by witnessess who report threats than by metal detectors.

I do wonder if one of these days we'll see a disgruntled 18-year-old kid who knows how to build a bomb. If that happens, then all bets are off.

I think there is a good chance of another shooting at Columbine. I think it is more likely that some NBK obsessed person(s) would wish to reenact the shooting (perhaps not even students) than for someone to do it because of their own, unrelated reasons, but I do think it would be much harder to get away with the second time, so perhaps they would not succeed. Maybe next time they will have success with bombs. Who knows.

eli27 wrote:

I think there is a good chance of another shooting at Columbine. I think it is more likely that some NBK obsessed person(s) would wish to reenact the shooting (perhaps not even students) than for someone to do it because of their own, unrelated reasons, but I do think it would be much harder to get away with the second time, so perhaps they would not succeed. Maybe next time they will have success with bombs. Who knows.

Good point. That is probably why info on the bomb-mechanisms the boys tried to use is kinda hard to come by. You can figure it out but it's not on the first layer of information.

Just to show how right you are, Eric Veik wanted to "try to finish the job" not long after NBK and he had a crap-load of gas and road-flares stored up. You are spot on imho that the next attempt might be from someone who learned from Eric and Dylan's failures. If I am not mistaken, an FBI report did conclude that if the bombs had gone off as the boys intended almost everyone in the cafeteria would have been killed or injured and the pillar would probably have collapsed bringing the library down.

Jenn wrote:

High body count is irrelevant. Just one innocent child killed by a school shooter is too many. And security in America better now than it was in 1999? I don't think so. Look at Sandy Hook, look at the Aurora shooting and Virginia Tech even. All of these shootings happened years after Columbine. There has been plenty of time to try and fix the root of the problem when it comes to school shootings. It's almost certain another Columbine will happen. The question is just when and where? And why not at Columbine? It's happened once before. Surely, it could happen again.

And like I said, which I still say, you can do whatever you want to tighten up security but that is not going to stop a determined student to find some way to commit another school shooting. Like I said, school shootings happen MORE now than they did back then. If the schools have all these said plans to stop school shootings then how come they are still going on and going on daily? I don't think there has been more than a month or so that has gone by in the past 10 years that there hasn't been some kind of school shooting or threat to shoot up a school. Yes, a couple have been foiled but that was only because those kids planning it got sloppy. They told friends or they told other students not to show up that day or even posted their plans on social media. That has nothing to do with security tighten up or schools taking more precautions. That is because someone got messy when planning their attack.

Columbine is an excellent example. Here this school had a school shooting that clearly had to do with where these kids fit in on the social ladder. They've said it many, many times. They did it because they were ignored, felt left out and felt that jocks and popular kids got special treatment. That the jocks got away with treating the less popular kids like they owned the school and could do whatever they wanted to them and suffer no consequences from the teachers.

And here it is 16 years later and the jocks/popular kids are still getting treated better, treated like the whole school revolves around them. The school is all about 'sports, sports and more sports'.  What they should be spending money on instead of more baseball bats, footballs and sports uniforms is programs and classes to help kids learn how to treat each other with respect, that everyone should be treated equal and that bullying is wrong. Instead, they still claim bullying doesn't go on there and never has. They should have more programs for kids who are troubled either be it from school or home. I don't see any of that happening. Yea, there are programs like Rachel's Challenge that charges school thousands upon thousands of dollars just to have a 1 hour school assembly. In my opinion, that does nothing for them. Schools need to address these problems every day not just once a year for an hour.

Then there is cyber bullying which is almost always never taken seriously. Kids have committed suicide, cut themselves, starve themselves and also plan or go through with school shootings because of how they've been treated and humiliated online. The problems just get worse and worse not any better.

In my opinion, the 2 biggest reasons for school shootings besides easy access to guns is bullying and mental illness. If these 2 things were addressed more and taken more seriously than they currently are, maybe then there would be some progress and decline in school shootings. If schools were as adamant about teaching kids not to bullying and helping them address and treat their mental illnesses as they are about sports things might be a lot better. But apparently how many games a school wins is more important than how many students are spared the pain, humiliation and sadness millions of them go through on a daily basis because of bullying and mental illness.

Wow, this is a great post and I hope everyone reads it because that is what Columbine was/is all about. If we don't learn from it -- and the almost weekly proliferation of  shootings says we are not learning from it -- then our culture is worse than doomed, it is inhuman.

We're talking about children here. And we are also talking about the treasure of individualism and self-determination that is just crushed out of people through the present kind of society we are living in. If Columbine had been looked at seriously and thoroughly by the powers that be and action taken on all of the unconscionable things from physical bullying, to evangelical brainwashing, to a corrupt and absolutely untrustworthy Sheriff's dept, to cowardly SWAT respondents, and to the childish and clique-loving CHS administration,to the lethal potential of psychotropic drugs, to the failure of anyone to intervene when Eric admitted he was mentally ill, let alone the failure of JeffCo to make a move on the Browns' search warrant then we would have learned many things that could help make a better society.  

Instead it is just... "they were psychos." Rachel was a Saint. Throw another parade. Play ball.

Gustopoet2 wrote:

If I am not mistaken, an FBI report did conclude that if the bombs had gone off as the boys intended almost everyone in the cafeteria would have been killed or injured and the pillar would probably have collapsed bringing the library down.  

Worst case sscenario, assuming the full potrential of the substance and amount they had was used in an effective way. I'm not gonna go into details, but to my knowledge E&D either didn't have the technology or skills to make full use of the otential of the propane they had. Even if their clocks etc worked fine, they would cause a fire (eventually put down by sprinklers), but not an explosion.

That's I'm really not gonna debate this in detail, that's dangerous information. Suffice to say that trheir bombs were very far from professional. The substance power and the amount they had would contain a potential to release a blast comparabale to the bali bombing. But E&D certainly didn't have the technology or know-how to release said potential.

Gustopoet2 wrote:

eli27 wrote:

I think there is a good chance of another shooting at Columbine. I think it is more likely that some NBK obsessed person(s) would wish to reenact the shooting (perhaps not even students) than for someone to do it because of their own, unrelated reasons, but I do think it would be much harder to get away with the second time, so perhaps they would not succeed. Maybe next time they will have success with bombs. Who knows.

Good point. That is probably why info on the bomb-mechanisms the boys tried to use is kinda hard to come by. You can figure it out but it's not on the first layer of information.

Just to show how right you are, Eric Veik wanted to "try to finish the job" not long after NBK and he had a crap-load of gas and road-flares stored up. You are spot on imho that the next attempt might be from someone who learned from Eric and Dylan's failures. If I am not mistaken, an FBI report did conclude that if the bombs had gone off as the boys intended almost everyone in the cafeteria would have been killed or injured and the pillar would probably have collapsed bringing the library down.  

Isn't the world just such a great place?!

I have wondered this too... If there is some fanboy/girl(s) that would "Finish" what they started. Could you imagine the backlash that would have!

Sounds like we have two convo's going.. will we see another Columbine type massacre (attempts by more than one student & use of weaponry that could cause high numbers of victims) & secondly, will CHS itself see another attack.

In regards to another Columbine type mass attack? Yes, without doubt & it's just a matter of time, a group of 2 or more students will likely plan a massive attack on a school with more than fire arms.

Will Columbine see another attack? Odds are no, but I wouldn't rule it out.

Fatheroftwo wrote:

Sounds like we have two convo's going..  will we see another Columbine type massacre (attempts by more than one student & use of weaponry that could cause high numbers of victims) & secondly, will CHS itself see another attack.

In regards to another Columbine type mass attack?  Yes, without doubt & it's just a matter of time, a group of 2 or more students will likely plan a massive attack on a school with more than fire arms.

Will Columbine see another attack?  Odds are no, but I wouldn't rule it out.

Yeah, we're drifting off-topic. That's OK, the original thread topic was kind of limited. I agree we will see a mass attack at a school probably sooner than later. There is always the chance someone or someones will pick CHS because of its symbolic value and history.

Gustopoet2 wrote:

Fatheroftwo wrote:

Sounds like we have two convo's going..  will we see another Columbine type massacre (attempts by more than one student & use of weaponry that could cause high numbers of victims) & secondly, will CHS itself see another attack.

In regards to another Columbine type mass attack?  Yes, without doubt & it's just a matter of time, a group of 2 or more students will likely plan a massive attack on a school with more than fire arms.

Will Columbine see another attack?  Odds are no, but I wouldn't rule it out.

Yeah, we're drifting off-topic. That's OK, the original thread topic was kind of limited. I agree we will see a mass attack at a school probably sooner than later. There is always the chance someone or someones will pick CHS because of its symbolic value and history.

Agreed. Some kids somewhere are gonna be like, 'why don't we finish NBK and use bombs that actually work this time!', the question is if they are actually gonna do it or not/if they are able to succeed.

Gustopoet2 wrote:

Fatheroftwo wrote:

Sounds like we have two convo's going..  will we see another Columbine type massacre (attempts by more than one student & use of weaponry that could cause high numbers of victims) & secondly, will CHS itself see another attack.

In regards to another Columbine type mass attack?  Yes, without doubt & it's just a matter of time, a group of 2 or more students will likely plan a massive attack on a school with more than fire arms.

Will Columbine see another attack?  Odds are no, but I wouldn't rule it out.

Yeah, we're drifting off-topic. That's OK, the original thread topic was kind of limited. I agree we will see a mass attack at a school probably sooner than later. There is always the chance someone or someones will pick CHS because of its symbolic value and history.

There was a case of a female student attacking another student with a knife @ CHS a few years after 4/20/99 I believe, just looked for an article but found nothing.

deathmedic wrote:

I have wondered this too... If there is some fanboy/girl(s) that would "Finish" what they started. Could you imagine the backlash that would have!

Watch out for disturbed lurkers....

Gustopoet2 wrote:

deathmedic wrote:

I have wondered this too... If there is some fanboy/girl(s) that would "Finish" what they started. Could you imagine the backlash that would have!

Watch out for disturbed lurkers....  

Man I'm just scared someones gonna do some stupid shit that gets the forum shut down, this forum is my life :'(

I think it could be possible if some obsessed person started going there and was borderline psychosis or something other issue that would make them want/capable of doing a shooting. This would be incredibly rare but the chances are there.

Falcolus wrote:

I think it could be possible if some obsessed person started going there and was borderline psychosis or something other issue that would make them want/capable of doing a shooting. This would be incredibly rare but the chances are there.

Probably, the chances of a true copycat grow a bit lower with every passing year. But I'd say they are still high, probably better than 50/50.

I think there are at least two sub-categories to this topic:

1) Copycats who might want to "finish the job."

2) That idea that the bullying culture at CHS will simply provoke the some other "victim/outcast" regardless of the specific desire to "finish" NKB.

@Gustopoet, I would have to say that the first one would be more likely, and besides who knows how the bullying is at CHS now.

Falcolus wrote:

@Gustopoet, I would have to say that the first one would be more likely, and besides who knows how the bullying is at CHS now.

I'm guessing, if anything, it's worse as Jenn mentioned upstream. I included a link to the school homepage in the original post --looks like the cult of the athlete is still intact anyway. The first two links are "home" and "athletics."

But you're right, a copycat attack is also possible, irrespective of bullying.



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Hmm true, So maybe both are just as equally possible?

Falcolus wrote:

Hmm true, So maybe both are just as equally possible?

Yeah, probably so.

Another thing is the "outcasts" at Columbine are probably treated even worse now since their "outcast" heritage includes actual mass-murder and all the jocks and in-crowd and administration are guilty of is bullying people so bad they wish they could die on a daily basis.

I'm not saying it makes any sense to hold the present day outcasts there responsible for NBK but that's typically how things go, isn't it?

After NBK, some jocks supposedly were plotting to get revenge by going after Brooks Brown. Brooks writes in No Easy Answers:

"At Matt Ketcher's funeral, a few of the football players had been talking about getting together and coming after me." (169)

Fatheroftwo wrote:

Gustopoet2 wrote:

Fatheroftwo wrote:

Sounds like we have two convo's going..  will we see another Columbine type massacre (attempts by more than one student & use of weaponry that could cause high numbers of victims) & secondly, will CHS itself see another attack.

In regards to another Columbine type mass attack?  Yes, without doubt & it's just a matter of time, a group of 2 or more students will likely plan a massive attack on a school with more than fire arms.

Will Columbine see another attack?  Odds are no, but I wouldn't rule it out.

Yeah, we're drifting off-topic. That's OK, the original thread topic was kind of limited. I agree we will see a mass attack at a school probably sooner than later. There is always the chance someone or someones will pick CHS because of its symbolic value and history.

There was a case of a female student attacking another student with a knife @ CHS a few years after 4/20/99 I believe, just looked for an article but found nothing.

Never heard of that one -- maybe someone can dig up some info somewhere.

Someone posted a video awhile back (I'll have to look around in the threads to see if I can find it) and it was a current Columbine student (I think she was in 9th or 10th grade) and she uploaded a video to Youtube talking about how bad the bullying still was at Columbine and all they care about are sports.

Another user who was actually a student when Columbine happened also uploaded videos to Youtube and she said for a year or so after the shooting everyone was nice to each other but by the end of the following year, things had gone back to how they were before the shooting.

Drifting off topic a little but here is a supposed copycat (not at CHS though) from back in May:

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Sabratha wrote:

Moreover people who would have otherwise just commited suicide now often start asking themselves questions like: "If I'm gonna go anywyas, why not leave a burning hole behind?". Columbine and other shootings helped to enable this sort of reasoning amongst suicidal people.

That's basically exactly that Germanwings pilot's thought process -- and he ended up with a body count over ten times higher than what E&D managed to get, combined.

This "suicide followed by celebrity" trend goes beyond shootings only.

lio45 wrote:

Sabratha wrote:

Moreover people who would have otherwise just commited suicide now often start asking themselves questions like: "If I'm gonna go anywyas, why not leave a burning hole behind?". Columbine and other shootings helped to enable this sort of reasoning amongst suicidal people.

That's basically exactly that Germanwings pilot's thought process -- and he ended up with a body count over ten times higher than what E&D managed to get, combined.

This "suicide followed by celebrity" trend goes beyond shootings only.

Yep. Back in 2008 That's what I though was most likley to happen - that a fame-seeking copycat is the most probable threat and the type that needs to be watched out for on forums. Auvinen seems to have in part confirmed that. But then we had Adam.

Just proves not all shooters are all alike and that Langman's typology (traumativezd vs psychotic vs psychopathic) holds water.

Jenn wrote:

Someone posted a video awhile back (I'll have to look around in the threads to see if I can find it) and it was a current Columbine student (I think she was in 9th or 10th grade) and she uploaded a video to Youtube talking about how bad the bullying still was at Columbine and all they care about are sports.

This is it, and it was uploaded in 2011:

tfsa47090 wrote:

Jenn wrote:

Someone posted a video awhile back (I'll have to look around in the threads to see if I can find it) and it was a current Columbine student (I think she was in 9th or 10th grade) and she uploaded a video to Youtube talking about how bad the bullying still was at Columbine and all they care about are sports.

This is it, and it was uploaded in 2011:

Whoa nice catch! I looked for this myself yesterday for about 20 mins and found nothing. I din't go back further than 2014 tho.

Watching this video makes me so angry. Have they not learnt a thing?! Do they want another shooting?! Or do they not care because people are only hurting themselves when they get bullied? FUCK FUCK FUCK

good find tho

tfsa47090 wrote:

Jenn wrote:

Someone posted a video awhile back (I'll have to look around in the threads to see if I can find it) and it was a current Columbine student (I think she was in 9th or 10th grade) and she uploaded a video to Youtube talking about how bad the bullying still was at Columbine and all they care about are sports.

This is it, and it was uploaded in 2011:

I would have eventually gotten around to it! Lol. But yes, thank you, that is the video I was referring to.

Also, here is the thread that the video was originally posted in. It was during the very early days of the forum, so there wasn't too much discussion.

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Is it just me that finds that girl infuriating? Even the video is shot!

One second she says she gets on with everyone but then says she's an outcast.

Talks about her friend who I assume is more of an acquaintance if she isn't even sure what country she's from.

I reckon she didn't get picked for the cheerleading team so this was her way of punishing the school for it.

Everyone has their reasons as to why certain people affect them the way that they do, and for whatever reason, there seems to be quite a few who aren't fond of the young girl who made this video.

However, I don't feel negatively toward her. She does not bother me. I find her to be quite sweet. She's very young there, no more than 15 years old.

I feel that she's saying that she gets along with everyone; meaning she doesn't fit into (or doesn't want to fit into or be labeled as being in) a "clique" or "group". And while she gets along with everyone (doesn't judge everyone), she is still an outcast herself. She feels she is one, at least in that environment.

I'm not implying that you (Radioactive_Clothing) feel this way at all, BUT, I've noticed LOTS of derogatory commentary about this girl from other females---particularly on tumblr a few years back, and at one point on this forum from one or two (female) members.

Again, people can like or loathe whatever and whoever they please for whatever reason(s), but the backlash against her (particularly on tumblr years back) from all of these females reeked of seething jealousy to me.

Just because someone is attractive (or is viewed as being attractive by a good deal of other people), it doesn't mean they're not picked on, bullied, or ostracized. It doesn't mean they're not intensely struggling or even suffering. I know this for a personal fact. (AGAIN, I'm NOT trying to say this is why you feel as you do, Radioactive_Clothing).

I can see that in some ways she's not acutely articulate about everything...but she sounds just like a typical 15 year old kid during those portions.

Personally, I thank her for sharing the video. Despite any portions of it that are overtly "teenage", I feel that what she said here speaks volumes about what is still (and obviously always has been) going on in that school.

Just because someone is attractive (or is viewed as being attractive by a good deal of other people), it doesn't mean they're not picked on, bullied, or ostracized.

***

Sometimes being attractive, or smart, or creative brings on the hostility and bullying. Same goes for size. Big people get bullied, too. Sometimes because they are big.

Gustopoet2 wrote:

Whoa nice catch!    I looked for this myself yesterday for about 20 mins and found nothing. I din't go back further than 2014 tho.

I have it saved in bookmarks.

eli27 wrote:

Watching this video makes me so angry. Have they not learnt a thing?! Do they want another shooting?! Or do they not care because people are only hurting themselves when they get bullied? FUCK FUCK FUCK

good find tho

I felt the same way the first few times I watched it. It's infuriating.

Jenn wrote:

I would have eventually gotten around to it! Lol. But yes, thank you, that is the video I was referring to.

Also, here is the thread that the video was originally posted in. It was during the very early days of the forum, so there wasn't too much discussion.

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Like I said above in response to Gustopoet2, I had it bookmarked.

Gustopoet2 wrote:

Just because someone is attractive (or is viewed as being attractive by a good deal of other people), it doesn't mean they're not picked on, bullied, or ostracized.

***

Sometimes being attractive, or smart, or creative brings on the hostility and bullying. Same goes for size. Big people get bullied, too. Sometimes because they are big.

The phrase "hitting the nail on the head" doesn't do this comment any justice, Gustopoet2. But, you've indeed hit the nail on the head!

Thanks, tfsa47090.

My last comment (not making the cheerleading team) was supposed to be a bit tongue in cheek but I stand by my comments.

I just found it frustrating when she talked about the previous things I mentioned, and like when she was making fun out of the girls who wore a certain type of bra then shook her own titties at the camera.

To me, her video comes across of her being jealous rather than the "bullies" being jealous of her (I don't think this girl is bullied either btw).

I dunno, maybe I'm judging the book by the cover here... but she comes off as superficial and attention-seeking. Its her way of talking, her setting the camera to be centered on her cleveage mor ethan her face.

Also her complaining about girls putting on a ton of makeup? She's either hypocritical or it really is a ton of makeup. Also her way of talking annoys me - the "Its ummm like... yeah... and like..." thing.

But not to concentrate on the person or the way she says things, but rather what she says:

Her complaints about jocks etc seem sincere, but also very normal and average. Teenagres making such complaints about their HS are a dmine a dozen. CHS still sucks apparently and teenagres prefer to cut themselves rather than face the problem or go to the authorities. The authorities don't seem to care too much, that's at least one thing this girl states openly and clearly.

Either way, at leats this vid convinced me I'd rather work for my corporation than be a HS counselor. Or a HS student again.