Did anyone ever manage to spot the duffel bags?

On the cafeteria surveillance tapes...?

I've seen it said more than once that appear and are "clearly visible" on the tapes after the janitor re-started the recording, but I could never distinguish them clearly with the before and after. Does anyone have, say, hints about how to spot which table, and which of the four alternating views is the best? (and how many of the four views show them)

Basically, any info that would help me (and probably others) see them...

Not to hijack your thread, but how...in the hell did 500 students not see Eric and Dylan bring in a damn Duffel bag? How did none of their friends (who were in the cafeteria) did not see them come in with the duffel bags?

It just completely baffles me.

lol wrote:

Not to hijack your thread, but how...in the hell did 500 students not see Eric and Dylan bring in a damn Duffel bag? How did none of their friends (who were in the cafeteria) did not see them come in with the duffel bags?

It just completely baffles me.

They probably just didn't think twice since all the sports kids etc. must have needed to bring big bags to school all the time.

Its not that. Its more like NO ONE saw Eric or Dylan inside the cafeteria, or leaving the cafeteria

500 kids and not one saw them in the cafeteria. They must be damn ninjas.

It really supports what the boys have said though: no one cared about them in the slightest. They could have well not existed for the entirety of Colorado's population except for a few select people. No one ever paid attention or even just looked at them, except on those moments when it was time to find a target to bully.

lol wrote:

Its not that. Its more like NO ONE saw Eric or Dylan inside the cafeteria, or leaving the cafeteria

500 kids and not one saw them in the cafeteria. They must be damn ninjas.

People might have seen them and just paid them no attention because they were nobodies.

Gustopoet2 wrote:

lol wrote:

Its not that. Its more like NO ONE saw Eric or Dylan inside the cafeteria, or leaving the cafeteria

500 kids and not one saw them in the cafeteria. They must be damn ninjas.

People might have seen them and just paid them no attention because they were nobodies.

Yep. One of the reasons that contributed to making them want to walk in there and place these big, weird duffel bags containing bombs was that they knew they COULD walk in there and place these big, weird duffel bags containing bombs and NO ONE (out of ~500 people) would show the slightest hint of having noticed the pair's existence.

A more popular individual would likely have been stopped by others saying wazzup bro a couple times, and someone might have asked WTF he was doing with those big duffel bags, especially if trying to drop the bags somewhere then leave... "dude, what are you doing?"

lio45 wrote:

Gustopoet2 wrote:

lol wrote:

Its not that. Its more like NO ONE saw Eric or Dylan inside the cafeteria, or leaving the cafeteria

500 kids and not one saw them in the cafeteria. They must be damn ninjas.

People might have seen them and just paid them no attention because they were nobodies.

Yep. One of the reasons that contributed to making them want to walk in there and place these big, weird duffel bags containing bombs was that they knew they COULD walk in there and place these big, weird duffel bags containing bombs and NO ONE (out of ~500 people) would show the slightest hint of having noticed the pair's existence.

A more popular individual would likely have been stopped by others saying wazzup bro a couple times, and someone might have asked WTF he was doing with those big duffel bags, especially if trying to drop the bags somewhere then leave... "dude, what are you doing?"

Yeah, plus they carried bags around all the time, particularly for video shoots etc.

If they would have walked in and said "Hey Jocks, we just planted a propane bomb under your table!!!" They probably would have just got pelted with candy and ketchup and everyone would've just laughed. Until the gas-cans ignited anyway...

Even after they started shooting and killing people -- it took a couple of minutes before anyone believed it. They thought it was a class-project or a senior prank.

Whats the best source that maps & details their steps on 4/20?

Try this:

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lio45 wrote:

It really supports what the boys have said though: no one cared about them in the slightest. They could have well not existed for the entirety of Colorado's population except for a few select people. No one ever paid attention or even just looked at them, except on those moments when it was time to find a target to bully.

Yep.

lol wrote:

Its not that. Its more like NO ONE saw Eric or Dylan inside the cafeteria, or leaving the cafeteria

500 kids and not one saw them in the cafeteria. They must be damn ninjas.

I think it is. Tied with what Gustopoet said about them being nobodies.

It is weird that they were not seen at all. There are witness reports of them in other places but not in the cafeteria lugging heavy bags in. I'm sure on a normal day that wouldn't have been remembered at all but this wasn't normal obviously. Shortly afterwards those same guys were shooting at them. I would think that would enhance the chances that someone would remember just glancing around and seeing them.

These are also the same kids who barely turned their heads to close and continuous gun fire for over 2 minutes. Not trying to sound like a complete smartass. But I would guess they saw those bags as being normal and usual placements, or maybe even apart of some type of senior prank? As we know most people thought the gunshots were. Good question, though. We've never had much insight on that situation.

paradisedreams wrote:

These are also the same kids who barely turned their heads to close and continuous gun fire for over 2 minutes. Not trying to sound like a complete smartass.

You don't sound that way at all. It's a very good point. The kids on the "inside" of CHS (those who weren't considered "losers") had a sense of being entitled and protected. In the run up to NBK they definitely were entitled and protected by the school admin so any kind of tragedy was only supposed to happen to other people.

Gustopoet2 wrote:

paradisedreams wrote:

These are also the same kids who barely turned their heads to close and continuous gun fire for over 2 minutes. Not trying to sound like a complete smartass.

You don't sound that way at all. It's a very good point. The kids on the "inside" of CHS (those who weren't considered "losers") had a sense of being entitled and protected. In the run up to NBK they definitely were entitled and protected by the school admin so any kind of tragedy was only supposed to happen to other people.

Exactly. Watching the cafeteria footage (in retrospect) knowing who is being murdered and injured right outside at that exact moment, & then you look at everyone, inside, sitting and continuing with what they were doing. It took Dave Sanders realizing and alerting everyone for anyone to make any sudden movements. It's truly a miracle there were no fatalities inside the cafeteria itself. I just wish Dave had the chance to know that was all because of him.

paradisedreams wrote:

Gustopoet2 wrote:

paradisedreams wrote:

These are also the same kids who barely turned their heads to close and continuous gun fire for over 2 minutes. Not trying to sound like a complete smartass.

You don't sound that way at all. It's a very good point. The kids on the "inside" of CHS (those who weren't considered "losers") had a sense of being entitled and protected. In the run up to NBK they definitely were entitled and protected by the school admin so any kind of tragedy was only supposed to happen to other people.

Exactly. Watching the cafeteria footage (in retrospect) knowing who is being murdered and injured right outside at that exact moment, & then you look at everyone, inside, sitting and continuing with what they were doing. It took Dave Sanders realizing and alerting everyone for anyone to make any sudden movements. It's truly a miracle there were no fatalities inside the cafeteria itself. I just wish Dave had the chance to know that was all because of him.

True that.

So, I'm guessing that the lack of reply to the initial post means you're all like me on that one?

The bags were approximately in the middle of the cafeteria, right? (i.e. pretty far away from every one of the four corner cameras, and with tables in the way.)

Sorry lio45 -- if I understand your original question correctly, my answer would be try watching when Dylan hits them with a  Molotov @ 0:27

They should be right by the support pillar:

Them being nobodies is not a good explanation because in the 11k there are dozens of people listed as their friends and dozens more who know them by name and sight.

The reason they were not seen is because they planted the bombs as lunch was beginning. At the time they brought in the bombs, everyone was either quickly going into the lunch room themselves or leaving to get lunch off campus. When people are walking to and from somewhere they don't stop to look around. Tons of people left backpacks, gym bags, instruments, etc. in the cafeteria, so that would not be unusual either.

lasttrain wrote:

Them being nobodies is not a good explanation because in the 11k there are dozens of people listed as their friends and dozens more who know them by name and sight.

The reason they were not seen is because they planted the bombs as lunch was beginning. At the time they brought in the bombs, everyone was either quickly going into the lunch room themselves or leaving to get lunch off campus.  When people are walking to and from somewhere they don't stop to look around.  Tons of people left backpacks, gym bags, instruments, etc. in the cafeteria, so that would not be unusual either.

You can know someone's name and still think of them as a "nobody" and not care what they are doing. They were well-known, yes, well-known as outcasts. @ 2:26



***

"The reason they were not seen is because they planted the bombs as lunch was beginning."

***

Sounds plausible.

Gustopoet2 wrote:

lasttrain wrote:

Them being nobodies is not a good explanation because in the 11k there are dozens of people listed as their friends and dozens more who know them by name and sight.

The reason they were not seen is because they planted the bombs as lunch was beginning. At the time they brought in the bombs, everyone was either quickly going into the lunch room themselves or leaving to get lunch off campus.  When people are walking to and from somewhere they don't stop to look around.  Tons of people left backpacks, gym bags, instruments, etc. in the cafeteria, so that would not be unusual either.

You can know someone's name and still think of them as a "nobody" and not care what they are doing. They were well-known, yes, well-known as outcasts. @ 2:26



***

"The reason they were not seen is because they planted the bombs as lunch was beginning."

***

Sounds plausible.

I don't think you're going to be able to convince this guy they weren't popular. I mean he's read the 11k, don't you know.

Gustopoet2 wrote:

Try this:

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Gracias Gusto

De nada, Fatheroftwo.

Gustopoet2 wrote:

lasttrain wrote:

Them being nobodies is not a good explanation because in the 11k there are dozens of people listed as their friends and dozens more who know them by name and sight.

The reason they were not seen is because they planted the bombs as lunch was beginning. At the time they brought in the bombs, everyone was either quickly going into the lunch room themselves or leaving to get lunch off campus.  When people are walking to and from somewhere they don't stop to look around.  Tons of people left backpacks, gym bags, instruments, etc. in the cafeteria, so that would not be unusual either.

You can know someone's name and still think of them as a "nobody" and not care what they are doing. They were well-known, yes, well-known as outcasts. @ 2:26



***

"The reason they were not seen is because they planted the bombs as lunch was beginning."

***

Sounds plausible.

The debate is about whether anyone recognized their faces, not about whether they liked them. You said no one recognized them because they were unknown. I pointed out to you that according to the 11K dozens and maybe hundreds of people knew them by sight.

You are moving the goalposts of the debate from facial recognition to social esteem.

I will repeat my point and stand by it: dozens and maybe hundreds of people recognized Eric's and Dylan's faces, so them being "nobodies" is NOT an explanation for why no one in the cafeteria recognized them that morning. The real reason is that they planted the bombs as lunch was beginning.

I've watched the cafeteria video multiple times trying to spot it. Haven't spotted it yet. The FBI might have been able to see it when they enhanced it. I'm sure there was lots of "zooming" in on the photo when they went over it too. Even then I'd have my doubts that even they were able to see it clearly.

lasttrain wrote:

I will repeat my point and stand by it: dozens and maybe hundreds of people recognized Eric's and Dylan's faces, so them being "nobodies" is NOT an explanation for why no one in the cafeteria recognized them that morning.  The real reason is that they planted the bombs as lunch was beginning.

OK, lasttrain -- I concede the point. As I said, it sounds plausible. No-one saw them because it was as lunch was beginning. I still maintain that if people had spotted them and recognized them, they wouldn't have cared what they were doing because they were nobodies.

If "dozens and maybe hundreds of people recognized Eric's and Dylan's faces" does that work the other way around, as well? Did they know most of their classmates, they being so popular and all?