What did we learn tonight?

What do we know now that we didn't know before?

The big takeaway for me is knowing that the Klebolds are now divorced. They did a good job of keeping that one under wraps.

It was interesting to hear Dylan speak in the RNN clip, and to see the new (to us) pictures. It was a bit surprising to see Dylan wearing glasses on prom night, as well. He wore them more often than we realize.

About that RNN clip: Dylan's mannerisms seem somewhat ... effeminate. I mean, this isn't the first time that we've seen him talk, but his facial expressions looked kind of "girly" in that interview.

I don't know if Susan Klebold said anything that she hasn't said before, in one way or another. I mean, it's one thing to read her words in a newspaper interview or a magazine article, and another thing to see and hear her say them ... but I didn't hear anything that gave me a better sense of why Dylan did what he did, or even what kind of a guy he was.

The pictures were more revealing than anything she said - it was striking to get new never-before-seen glimpses of Dylan in his childhood and early adolescence. At one point they showed a montage where he "grew up" in a matter of seconds.

I really do hope that one day we hear from the Harrises. I doubt that we will, but you never know.

Really, besides the divorce(which was truly shocking) and a couple of incidents(the Mother's day happening being the biggest), I have to agree with LPorter that not much was actually spoken that long time Columbiners and other followers of this event didn't already know.
I am hoping the book will contain more insight and information, but am sort of doubtful there will be much.
I'm sure we will learn a few things but realistically Sue is going to keep most of her memories of her life with Dylan to herself. A person can't really blame her as her memories, pictures and whatever possessions of his she kept (or got if she and Tom divided his things up when they separated) are all she will ever have left of him.
And all those things must be unbelievably precious to her.

And let me add that my heart goes out to Susan, and Tom and Byron, and Wayne and Kathy and Kevin, and the parents and other relatives of all of the other victims. They've gone through so much.

I wasn't expecting any bombshells tonight, and (aside from the divorce) we didn't get any. But we did get our first real glimpse at Susan Klebold, and that's something.

Dylan asking his Mom to get him a gun.

To me that was real surprising, especially given his age & the liberal nature of the home.

Fatheroftwo wrote:

Dylan asking his Mom to get him a gun.

To me that was real surprising, especially given his age & the liberal nature of the home.

Yes, that was. It's telling that it didn't raise more of a red flag in her own mind.

And the Mother's Day anecdote was interesting, as well.

LPorter101 wrote:

And let me add that my heart goes out to Susan, and Tom and Byron, and Wayne and Kathy and Kevin, and the parents and other relatives of all of the other victims. They've gone through so much.

I wasn't expecting any bombshells tonight, and (aside from the divorce) we didn't get any. But we did get our first real glimpse at Susan Klebold, and that's something.

Nicely said, LPorter.All 15 of these families will forever be missing and longing for their loved ones.It's a heavy weight to carry.
I think Dylan's Mom is a wonderful woman who is very caring ,sincere and courageous.

The part where Sue writes that she wants to die and then she gets diagnosed with breast cancer in 2001. Then while going through chemotherapy she talks about having a new hope in life again

I don't know if i'd say his mannerisms were "girly", but he definitely seemed awkward. Is this the first clip we've seen of Dylan speaking when he's not around his friends? its proof of how shy he really was.

@LPorer101, @Mrpunz

I don't think Dylan was gay at all but from his mannerisms there I can see why people would be jerks and make fun of him that way. What a shame.

I just watched the interview now, the things that stood out for me:

The mothers day incident seemed a little bit of an odd interaction for me to hear.

The divorce as others have said was quite shocking.

I found it interesting that Sue said she had talked to the Harris family occasionally, I'd always wondered if she had done.

LPorter101 wrote:

About that RNN clip: Dylan's mannerisms seem somewhat ... effeminate. I mean, this isn't the first time that we've seen him talk, but his facial expressions looked kind of "girly" in that interview.

The RNN video clip was interesting to finally see. I actually had a similar thought.

At one moment I wondering if they were going to go down the Eric was the bad influence over Dylan and the videogame route.

It wasn't a surprise that Danny Roborough Dad seems still very angry in his comments.

The major thing for me was Dylan asking his mother to get him a gun. I know the whole gun thing is different in the U.S. so that might be kind of a normal request a young man might make when he's nearly old enough to get one himself anyway?

Also, the threatening Susan thing stood out a lot for me. I've read a few other posts saying how sweet it was of him to go and buy the flowers afterwards and Susan herself tried to downplay it by saying it wasn't scary. It was a threat. I don't know if Tom ever found out about that but if I'd have been Dylan's dad I'd have had some serious words with him for threatening his mum like that.

Aside from "Dylan had achieved superhuman levels of kawaii..."

The Mother's Day anecdote, how he reacted in a home setting. It was an unfortunate thing for Sue to do, but it's typical to be frustrated when a teenage son is despondent and sullen--back then people didn't know as much about depression or how it worked. That Dylan was so politely assertive and mature, and bought his mom a gift after she indicated she was upset about not getting one, makes me think he did care about her deep down.

Didn't know about Dylan asking Susan to buy him a gun, or that he had plans to get a scholarship before the January incident.

The media not only deliberately withholds certain kinds of information about mass shooters, but they outright say they are not telling us everything.

There is a threat assessment protocol for catching would-be school shooters.

Calling poor Eric a disease, like some toxic fungus--some depressed suicidal people, it appears, are more deserving of sympathy by the public than others. If you're crying out for help, don't be the wrong kind of depressed or you too will be treated like a slime mold instead of a person who is sad and hurting. *headdesk*

Dylan built a model battleship when he was a kid.

"Sunshine Boy." Apt nickname, but sad in retrospect.

Sue and the Harrises are in contact with each other.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I noticed that too with his mannerisms.

I think you guys have covered everything. I was sad to hear that Sue and Tom are divorced. Especially at their age and so long after Columbine. I hope they're not alone.

One thing I noticed was that Patrick Ireland, who I have heard in at least two interviews where he seems very calm and forgiving, said something like he wanted nothing to do with them (Klebolds) and just forget their names. I wonder if ABC got that wrong and that he perhaps meant Eric and Dylan.

I didn't expect anything "huge" but that Dylan asked Sue for a gun and that the Klebolds are divorced is something we did not know here.

Yeah, Dylan asking his mother for a gun was intriguing to learn. Incidentally, Cullen just published an article with Vanity Fair about the interview and mistakenly said Eric asked Sue to buy him a gun.  

"Still, one of her biggest revelations concerned Eric. At one point, she said, he asked Sue to buy him a gun. She scoffed and declined, and did not permit guns in her house... I was fascinated to discover Eric acting even bolder than we had realized, throwing every possible line in the water to acquire his firepower. And his ability to charm—even awe—one more crucial adult in his way."

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

joeyjoejoe wrote:

Yeah, Dylan asking his mother for a gun was intriguing to learn. Incidentally, Cullen just published an article with Vanity Fair about the interview and mistakenly said Eric asked Sue to buy him a gun.  

"Still, one of her biggest revelations concerned Eric. At one point, she said, he asked Sue to buy him a gun. She scoffed and declined, and did not permit guns in her house... I was fascinated to discover Eric acting even bolder than we had realized, throwing every possible line in the water to acquire his firepower. And his ability to charm—even awe—one more crucial adult in his way."

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I simply cannot believe that imbecile. I'm at an absolute loss for words. Give me a fucking BREAK.

Truly, I don't think it was an accident that he wrote the name Eric at all. It seems deliberate, but he'll say it was a "mistake" or "typo", if he even addresses it at all.

I sincerely thought this was from a parody site at first.

tfsa47090 wrote:

joeyjoejoe wrote:

Yeah, Dylan asking his mother for a gun was intriguing to learn. Incidentally, Cullen just published an article with Vanity Fair about the interview and mistakenly said Eric asked Sue to buy him a gun.

"Still, one of her biggest revelations concerned Eric. At one point, she said, he asked Sue to buy him a gun. She scoffed and declined, and did not permit guns in her house... I was fascinated to discover Eric acting even bolder than we had realized, throwing every possible line in the water to acquire his firepower. And his ability to charm—even awe—one more crucial adult in his way."

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I simply cannot believe that imbecile. I'm at an absolute loss for words. Give me a fucking BREAK.

Truly, I don't think it was an accident that he wrote the name Eric at all. It seems deliberate, but he'll say it was a "mistake" or "typo", if he even addresses it at all.

I sincerely thought this was from a parody site at first.

I completely agree. This "mistake" is simply ridiculous and the follow up sentences even more so. I can't even believe this man.

"One of the biggest curiosities about the Klebold and Harris families is whether they confer with each other—I get asked that all the time. Now, we have an answer. Yes, periodically, Sue said, though she didn't feel comfortable representing them, and wanted to respect their privacy. Still, one of her biggest revelations concerned Eric. At one point, she said, he asked Sue to buy him a gun. She scoffed and declined, and did not permit guns in her house. Before the broadcast had even ended last night, I had gotten my first appalled tweet: “Red flags everywhere that were missed.” But this is Colorado. Lots of teen boys have guns. It's ballsy for a kid to ask another adult, but not necessarily a sign of something nefarious.

I was fascinated to discover Eric acting even bolder than we had realized, throwing every possible line in the water to acquire his firepower. And his ability to charm—even awe—one more crucial adult in his way. So many teachers at that school have given me similar accounts, with tears in their eyes—of all the problem kids tormenting them, Eric Harris was the sort of wonder that made them happy they had gone into teaching."



I just re-read and re-read and RE-READ this to make sure I'm not losing my damn mind.


This LYING buffoon needs to be stopped from continuing his nonsensical propaganda. Enough's enough.

He is a BLATANT liar and manipulator, and anyone who comes to his defense concerning this HAS to be a paid shill. There's no longer any room for argument about this.

Let's get real here.

Yes, that CERTAINLY is a misrepresentation by Cullen of what Sue said.

Somebody should notify him of this ASAP.

Lots of new pictures of Dylan as a kid, the RNN video with sound, the Mother's Day incident, and the fact that Dylan had asked his parents to buy him a gun. Also they "confirmed" that the BT were destroyed. There wasnt a whole lot of new information, but it was enough to make me change my personal view of Dylan. What kind of asshole asks their parents to buy them a gun so they can shoot up their school/kill themselves with it?

sororityalpha wrote:

Yes, that CERTAINLY is a misrepresentation by Cullen of what Sue said.

Somebody should notify him of this ASAP.

With all due respect, he doesn't need to be notified, as he knows exactly what it is he's doing. This was deliberate.

What he also knows is that very few people are in possession of attention spans any longer, and that they primarily look to twitter-sized snippets of information for the "truth", and that by writing out this blatant LIE, he'll be able to push his agenda even further with a large bulk of the populace.

In its own bizarre way, it almost seems as though it might even be a bit retaliatory. It's as if he's angry with Susan for shattering his little fantasy about Dylan by saying some of the things she said.

It is a misprint and should be corrected.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],

It should immediately be corrected, but his lies are intentional. He knows what he's doing.

He did the same thing in his book with the "Brenda Parker story", and he has no intention of correcting it or admitting that it's a bold faced lie.

Well, I have emailed him about the misprint and will see what happens.

tfsa47090 wrote:

joeyjoejoe wrote:

Yeah, Dylan asking his mother for a gun was intriguing to learn. Incidentally, Cullen just published an article with Vanity Fair about the interview and mistakenly said Eric asked Sue to buy him a gun.  

"Still, one of her biggest revelations concerned Eric. At one point, she said, he asked Sue to buy him a gun. She scoffed and declined, and did not permit guns in her house... I was fascinated to discover Eric acting even bolder than we had realized, throwing every possible line in the water to acquire his firepower. And his ability to charm—even awe—one more crucial adult in his way."

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I simply cannot believe that imbecile. I'm at an absolute loss for words. Give me a fucking BREAK.

Truly, I don't think it was an accident that he wrote the name Eric at all. It seems deliberate, but he'll say it was a "mistake" or "typo", if he even addresses it at all.

I sincerely thought this was from a parody site at first.

Oh! Oh ! Oh! I can't believe it. This is a new low even for Cullen.Despite whatever behavior that was risky or foolish that Eric did before the shootings, he would have NEVER been stupid enough to ask Sue to buy him a gun. WHAT A JOKE!

tfsa47090 wrote:

sororityalpha wrote:

Yes, that CERTAINLY is a misrepresentation by Cullen of what Sue said.

Somebody should notify him of this ASAP.

With all due respect, he doesn't need to be notified, as he knows exactly what it is he's doing. This was deliberate.

What he also knows is that very few people are in possession of attention spans any longer, and that they primarily look to twitter-sized snippets of information for the "truth", and that by writing out this blatant LIE, he'll be able to push his agenda even further with a large bulk of the populace.

In its own bizarre way, it almost seems as though it might even be a bit retaliatory. It's as if he's angry with Susan for shattering his little fantasy about Dylan by saying some of the things she said.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
Excellent insight.I totally agree.

PaintItBlack wrote:

tfsa47090 wrote:

sororityalpha wrote:

Yes, that CERTAINLY is a misrepresentation by Cullen of what Sue said.

Somebody should notify him of this ASAP.

With all due respect, he doesn't need to be notified, as he knows exactly what it is he's doing. This was deliberate.

What he also knows is that very few people are in possession of attention spans any longer, and that they primarily look to twitter-sized snippets of information for the "truth", and that by writing out this blatant LIE, he'll be able to push his agenda even further with a large bulk of the populace.

In its own bizarre way, it almost seems as though it might even be a bit retaliatory. It's as if he's angry with Susan for shattering his little fantasy about Dylan by saying some of the things she said.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
Excellent insight.I totally agree.

Thank you very kindly, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

And you know what else this steaming pile of dung he wrote more than likely equates to, aside from anger at having his own delusions shattered?

"Damage control" on behalf of his most known and "accepted" fallacy: his book.

There's not much of a question about that. All he has done is push this preposterous nonsense about a supposed angel (Dylan) and the supposed venomous devil (Eric) for years and years. The MOTHER of "the angel" has come out and publicly discussed this in a manner that helps tear the veil off of his ludicrous fairy tale. And there's more to come with her book.

He knows the end is nigh.

sororityalpha wrote:

Well, I have emailed him about the misprint and will see what happens.

Well, he replied back to my email:


Thank you VERY much.

I went back to the DVR and you're right. I'm very sorry, and we're correcting it now.

d

Dave Cullen  
Writer

tfsa47090 wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

tfsa47090 wrote:

sororityalpha wrote:

Yes, that CERTAINLY is a misrepresentation by Cullen of what Sue said.

Somebody should notify him of this ASAP.

With all due respect, he doesn't need to be notified, as he knows exactly what it is he's doing. This was deliberate.

What he also knows is that very few people are in possession of attention spans any longer, and that they primarily look to twitter-sized snippets of information for the "truth", and that by writing out this blatant LIE, he'll be able to push his agenda even further with a large bulk of the populace.

In its own bizarre way, it almost seems as though it might even be a bit retaliatory. It's as if he's angry with Susan for shattering his little fantasy about Dylan by saying some of the things she said.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
Excellent insight.I totally agree.

Thank you very kindly, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

And you know what else this steaming pile of dung he wrote more than likely equates to, aside from anger at having his own delusions shattered?

"Damage control" on behalf of his most known and "accepted" fallacy: his book.

There's not much of a question about that. All he has done is push this preposterous nonsense about a supposed angel (Dylan) and the supposed venomous devil (Eric) for years and years. The MOTHER of "the angel" has come out and publicly discussed this in a manner that helps tear the veil off of his ludicrous fairy tale. And there's more to come with her book.

He knows the end is nigh.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
I sure hope that you are right but Cullen and his narrative is so engrained in the basic Columbine story, I do not know if he will ever be totally discredited.

sororityalpha wrote:

sororityalpha wrote:

Well, I have emailed him about the misprint and will see what happens.

Well, he replied back to my email:


Thank you VERY much.

I went back to the DVR and you're right. I'm very sorry, and we're correcting it now.

d

Dave Cullen  
Writer

What I'm about to write is not anything personal toward you, sororityalpha. It's about Cullen. Please just know that.



This is ridiculous.

He shouldn't have written an article without thoroughly watching and listening to the program in question.

I don't think he watched it at all. He watched it when this was pointed out to him by you, and who knows who else.

It wasn't a misprint. It was an entire set of paragraphs ranting about how satan (aka Eric) tried to charm his friend's mother into buying him a gun; that Eric was stopping at nothing to create his arsenal. This pile of bullshit was composed by him in an attempt to further push his agenda.

Anyone who actually sat and watched this program knows that Susan said that her son Dylan asked her for a gun. There was no confusion or vagueness in this portion of her discussion, or any part of her discussion for that matter.

In fact, Susan didn't really speak of Eric at all. The "profiler" did, and the interviewer narrated about him and his parents here and there. Susan only referenced Eric's parents in a very succinct and respectful fashion and left it alone after that.

He HAS to correct this because it's too much of an obvious lie.

To my dismay, but not surprise, even Sue basically says in her Guardian article that she accepts that Eric was a psychopath, but that he like Dylan was a victim of his own pathology.
Very sad and disheartening overall.

PaintItBlack wrote:

To my dismay, but not surprise, even Sue basically says in her Guardian article that she accepts that Eric was a psychopath, but that he like Dylan was a victim of his own pathology.
Very sad and disheartening overall.

she says basically the same thing in her Washington post article. On the one hand, she's a mother and maybe it's easier for her to think this way. On the other hand, she had access to lots more stuff than we do and spoken to different people, including Eric's parents. I myself never thought Eric was a psychopath, but I'm starting to think maybe he was. They say that psychopathy is on a spectrum, so while he wasn't completely devoid of compassion, maybe he was more cold-hearted than the norm (whatever the norm is)

LPorter101 wrote:

It was a bit surprising to see Dylan wearing glasses on prom night, as well.

It would've been cool to see the video the Klebolds took of Dylan getting ready for prom.

I can totally see the "soft side" of Dylan that a lot of people said he had from the rnn video. I know it's short, but it's just blatantly obvious how good he could act.

maninthebox wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

To my dismay, but not surprise, even Sue basically says in her Guardian article that she accepts that Eric was a psychopath, but that he like Dylan was a victim of his own pathology.
Very sad and disheartening overall.

she says basically the same thing in her Washington post article. On the one hand, she's a mother and maybe it's easier for her to think this way. On the other hand, she had access to lots more stuff than we do and spoken to different people, including Eric's parents. I myself never thought Eric was a psychopath, but I'm starting to think maybe he was.  They say that psychopathy is on a spectrum, so while he wasn't completely devoid of compassion, maybe he was more cold-hearted than the norm (whatever the norm is)

Then so was Dylan. What did Eric do that day or in life that Dylan didn't do, really? Fire more shots, kill a few more people?
In all the chaos and confusion of that day and all that lead up to it, does that even matter?

They were both willing to kill every human inside the school that day with their bombs, friends included.  So if Eric was a psychopath, then how was Dylan not one as well?

Also, in a Guardian interview (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/12/columbine-massacre-killer-dylan-klebold-mother-sue-guilt), it states that Dylan's mom "clings to the scrap of comfort that her son killed fewer people".  This baffles me.  Dylan killed 5 people, and Eric killed 8......but both had planned to kill so many more with the bombs.