Sue's book: "Eric was a failed Hitler"; she DOES blame Eric

The Hitler quote is not hers - it's from the introduction by Andrew Solomon:

Andrew Solomon wrote:

“Eric was a failed Hitler; Dylan was a failed Holden Caulfield.”

But she does imply that she does blame Eric:

Susan Klebold wrote:

For years after the attack, I resisted blaming Eric for Dylan’s participation,” Sue writes. “Given what I have learned about psychopathy, I now feel differently. I find the violence and hatred seething off the page in Eric’s journals almost unreadably dark.”

Sue repeatedly asserts that Dylan was responsible for his actions, but she highlights multiple factors enabling his descent. “We cannot dedicate ourselves to preventing violence if we do not take into account the role depression and brain dysfunction can play in the decision to commit it,” she writes. There is also Dylan’s co-conspirator. “For years after the attack, I resisted blaming Eric for Dylan’s participation,” Sue writes. “Given what I have learned about psychopathy, I now feel differently. I find the violence and hatred seething off the page in Eric’s journals almost unreadably dark.” Or as Andrew Solomon, author of “The Noonday Demon,” suggests in the book’s introduction: “Eric was a failed Hitler; Dylan was a failed Holden Caulfield.”

Sue also blames herself, in part. “Dylan did not learn violence in our home,” she stresses. Her fault was not amorality or indifference, she says, but ignorance. “Dylan did show outward signals of depression,” Sue writes. “. . . If we had known enough to understand what those signs meant, I believe that we would have been able to prevent Columbine.”

**It sounds like she blames Eric, Dylan, and herself

Quote :

“Dylan did not learn violence in our home,”

But he sure as shit didn't learn it at school, oh no, anything but that. Not like being a belittled social outcast and seeing a world where his intellect made him a pariah would possibly make him what he became or add to his rage in any conceivable way.

This is ridiculous. Simply ridiculous. Dylan shared a lot of Eric's same feelings and beliefs!!!!!!!
They had a lot of the same outlook on life, the world, people.
Why does Sue or anybody else think they formed such a bond with each other?
Plus Dylan tried to blow people up and did execute people himself. IT MAKES ME WANT TO SCREAM!!!! DYLAN IS NO BETTER THAN ERIC!

PaintItBlack wrote:

This is ridiculous. Simply ridiculous. Dylan shared a lot of Eric's same feelings and beliefs!!!!!!!
They had a lot of the same outlook on  life, the world, people.
Why does Sue or anybody else think they formed such a bond with each other?
Plus Dylan tried to blow people up and did execute people himself. IT MAKES ME WANT TO SCREAM!!!! DYLAN IS NO BETTER THAN ERIC!

I completely agree.

While it's "understandable" that his own mother would do something like this in a certain context, why Cullen does it, and why SO many others do it is truly beyond the scope of my comprehension.

She blames Dylan. She says he was "a mass murderer," that she is "the mother of a murderer," that "he committed an atrocity" and "participated in an atrocity," that she is the "mother of a murderer" who "raised a murderer," that he is a "sadistic killer" and a "vicious killer" and that she is the "mother of a killer."

That's blaming Dylan.

It seems like she's still struggling today as to who she blames.

She will say in one section how Dylan was absolutely a murderer, and in the next implies that he was a victim of his own pathology and the whole plan was Eric's.  She says that Eric had tried to get others to participate in plans of mass destruction with him, but Dylan was the only one who bit.  

I thought the plan was originally Dylan's idea?  
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From her NPR interview in which she talks about watching the Basement Tapes, Sue sort of gives the impression that, while horrified with Dylan's actions and words on the tapes, she views it as more of a performance for Eric and the camera, rather than her real, beloved little Dylan.

Freezingmoon wrote:

It seems like she's still struggling today as to who she blames.

She will say in one section how Dylan was absolutely a murderer, and in the next implies that he was a victim of his own pathology and the whole plan was Eric's.  She says that Eric had tried to get others to participate in plans of mass destruction with him, but Dylan was the only one who bit.  

I thought the plan was originally Dylan's idea?  
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It was Dylan's idea. It was an idea he wanted to do with a girl, not Eric. That is why he called it 'NBK'. And another thing, Eric did not meet Mark Manes until he AND DYLAN went through Phil Duran to buy a Tec 9 that was actually for Dylan. So how did Eric approach him about murder before Dylan?

I mean seriously, if people are going to make flat out lies, they should at least make it sound believable.

lasttrain wrote:

She blames Dylan.  She says he was "a mass murderer," that she is "the mother of a murderer," that "he committed an atrocity" and "participated in an atrocity," that she is the "mother of a murderer" who "raised a murderer," that he is a "sadistic killer" and a "vicious killer" and that she is the "mother of a killer."

That's blaming Dylan.

I think SK has come to terms with a lot of things, but still feels Dylan wouldn't have done this without Eric's influence. It may be a cop out, but typical as Dylan was her baby.

Jenn wrote:

Freezingmoon wrote:

It seems like she's still struggling today as to who she blames.

She will say in one section how Dylan was absolutely a murderer, and in the next implies that he was a victim of his own pathology and the whole plan was Eric's.  She says that Eric had tried to get others to participate in plans of mass destruction with him, but Dylan was the only one who bit.  

I thought the plan was originally Dylan's idea?  
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It was Dylan's idea. It was an idea he wanted to do with a girl, not Eric. That is why he called it 'NBK'. And another thing, Eric did not meet Mark Manes until he AND DYLAN went through Phil Duran to buy a Tec 9 that was actually for Dylan. So how did Eric approach him about murder before Dylan?

I mean seriously, if people are going to make flat out lies, they should at least make it sound believable.

Caught that as well.. I was thinking "Mark Maynes"? Unless Eric thought DK might flake & brought it up to Maynes (and Mayne's shared that with the Feds) it's still highly unlikely to have happened & it couldn't have been prior to Dylan.

Fatheroftwo wrote:

lasttrain wrote:

She blames Dylan.  She says he was "a mass murderer," that she is "the mother of a murderer," that "he committed an atrocity" and "participated in an atrocity," that she is the "mother of a murderer" who "raised a murderer," that he is a "sadistic killer" and a "vicious killer" and that she is the "mother of a killer."

That's blaming Dylan.

I think SK has come to terms with a lot of things, but still feels Dylan wouldn't have done this without Eric's influence.  It may be a cop out, but typical as Dylan was her baby.

It's not really her fault because it's basically just what the experts told her (that Eric was the violent psychopathic influence that led to their destruction) but I feel like it's more than a cop out here. She ignored the facts and made them fit that understanding, instead of putting things together to find the truth of the situation. We can all pretend that Dylan, who was suicidal and exceedingly unhappy for a long time and having delusions or homicidal thoughts privately would have been just fine if he never met the evil psychopathic sadist that Eric was. And maybe the massacre wouldn't have happened like it did, but Dylan was in his own serious trouble that had nothing to do with Eric. Maybe it's not up to Sue Klebold to make that point, because it's probably hard to accept as a mother, but I feel like she's not helping at all by printing the words "Dylan did not have the profile of killer." As much as she referred to him as a murderer, this seems to suggest a basic innocence about him that Eric had corrupted and I don't know if that's really accurate. Eric may have enhanced and enabled it, but Dylan was already going there in his mind and he was not getting any useful treatment even though it must have been clear that something was wrong. Basically, if they're going to blame Eric for his mental deterioration into a killer, then they also need to blame the adults around him for not noticing the effect that Eric's friendship was having.

Does anyone know if either family tried to keep the two of them apart for any length of time? Especially after the van break-in, when there was clear proof that together, the two of them were making made stupid, reckless, anti-social choices?

I'm pretty sure it was Dylan's idea and he planted that seed in Eric's mind, it all snowballed from there. I don't think Eric thought about mass shooting before Dylan mentioned it, but was fairly dissatisfied with the world, I also think Eric got fascinated by the idea and then pushed it harder than Dylan later.

I think it's kind of ridiculous for the blame to be entirely shifted onto Eric's shoulders. Doesn't Sue remember when Dylan was intimidating people at a restaurant? The fact he harassed kids in the special education program so badly they didn't even want to show up at school? The fact he approached classmates at a service station brandishing a shotgun mere months before the shooting? The fact he wrote about wanting to go on a shooting rampage 6 months before Eric even created his "journal"?

No, Dylan was not innocent. I'd argue he was more "dangerous" than Eric.


No half-assed report written by a pseudo intellectual "psychologist" is going to convince me otherwise.

Ivan wrote:

I think it's kind of ridiculous for the blame to be entirely shifted onto Eric's shoulders. Doesn't Sue remember when Dylan was intimidating people at a restaurant? The fact he harassed kids in the special education program so badly they didn't even want to show up at school? The fact he approached classmates at a service station brandishing a shotgun mere months before the shooting? The fact he wrote about wanting to go on a shooting rampage 6 months before Eric even created his "journal"?

No, Dylan was not innocent. I'd argue he was more "dangerous" than Eric.


No half-assed report written by a pseudo intellectual "psychologist" is going to convince me otherwise.

She doesn't shift the blame entirely onto Eric's shoulders. She says Dylan was "a mass murderer," that she is "the mother of a murderer," that "he committed an atrocity" and "participated in an atrocity," that she is the "mother of a murderer" who "raised a murderer," that he is a "sadistic killer" and a "vicious killer" and that she is the "mother of a killer."

Unlike LPorter's Hitler quote, these are all quotations directly from Sue Klebold.

I think some of you did not read the same book I did.

She does state several times that Dylan was a murderer. But she also alludes to the fact that she thinks he was persuaded by Eric and that Dylan wouldn't have done any of it on his own. That's the upsetting part.

Freezingmoon wrote:

She does state several times that Dylan was a murderer.  But she also alludes to the fact that she thinks he was persuaded by Eric and that Dylan wouldn't have done any of it on his own.  That's the upsetting part.  

Why is that upsetting? I can see why you think it might be wrong. But why upsetting?

lasttrain wrote:

Freezingmoon wrote:

She does state several times that Dylan was a murderer.  But she also alludes to the fact that she thinks he was persuaded by Eric and that Dylan wouldn't have done any of it on his own.  That's the upsetting part.  

Why is that upsetting?  I can see why you think it might be wrong.  But why upsetting?

Because in the book Sue only focuses on Dylan speaking of suicide. She failed to mention Dylan was having homicidal thoughts. She failed to mention Dylan wanted to go on a shooting spree with people other than Eric. She failed to mention that Dylan brought up killing kids first, and it was his shooting spree, no one else. She failed to mention Dylan was very sadistic, and wrote plans in Eric's planner. She failed to mention Dylan's yearbook entry to Eric about killing people. Lastly, she failed to mention that Dylan on seperate occasions wrote "Have Fun" on the day to kill people.

Or she didn't fail to mention it...she just is still in denial.

lasttrain wrote:

Freezingmoon wrote:

She does state several times that Dylan was a murderer.  But she also alludes to the fact that she thinks he was persuaded by Eric and that Dylan wouldn't have done any of it on his own.  That's the upsetting part.  

Why is that upsetting?  I can see why you think it might be wrong.  But why upsetting?

Because that's not something we'll ever know, so making that assumption is pointless. If you want to look at the journals as evidence though, Dylan was the one to come up with the idea of NBK, so I'm unsure as to why anyone would feel that he wouldn't have carried it out without Eric when it was his idea to begin with.

I felt it I should post this again here because it's my response to this thread as well:
Every time I read it, the book gets worse.
Eric is blamed for the majority of what happened.He just is.
All kinds of excuses and explanations are made for Dylan but some of it makes him look worse to those who have followed this A long time.
Like Dwayne Fuseiler saying that "Eric went to school and didn't care if he died while Dylan just wanted to die but didn't care if others died too."
HUH? That makes Dylan look even worse!
It's worse to kill out of that kind of callousness and apathy than if you are sincerely and honestly pissed off.


Eric never asked his parents to buy him a gun.
Eric didn't refuse to go to therapy saying"I don't need any help."
Eric didn't tell his parents how trustworthy he was 4 days before it happened.

And Andrew Solomon who is incredibly patronizing and smug in his writings said in the foreword"The death of someone who has committed a great crime is for the best."
Obviously, hes talking about Dylan.Why would Sue have that in her book about her son?

lol wrote:

Because in the book Sue only focuses on Dylan speaking of suicide. She failed to mention Dylan was having homicidal thoughts.

There is an entire chapter in the book called "Pathway to Violence." Did you even read the book?

lol wrote:

She failed to mention Dylan was very sadistic.

She refers to him as a "sadistic killer." That is a direct quote from the book.  She also calls him a "vicious killer."

Not to mention, she calls him "a mass murderer," says she is "the mother of a murderer," that "he committed an atrocity" and "participated in an atrocity," that she "raised a murderer," that he is a "sadistic killer" and that she is "the mother of a killer."

How is that denial?

Quote :

To me, his death was one manifestation of suicide. If I were to explain it to a child, I would say that Dylan became very sick in his brain and his thinking wasn't the same, and because of that sickness he killed himself and other people.

How would she explain it to the parents of the kids her son killed?

"Gee, sorry, my kid was sick in the head. What could I do?"

LPorter101 wrote:

Quote :

To me, his death was one manifestation of suicide. If I were to explain it to a child, I would say that Dylan became very sick in his brain and his thinking wasn't the same, and because of that sickness he killed himself and other people.

How would she explain it to the parents of the kids her son killed?

"Gee, sorry, my kid was sick in the head. What could I do?"

That seems to be the message, along with Eric being just plain bad and more to blame.

Sue tried to downplay a lot of what Dylan did...at the end of the day Dylan had a choice

The more I read about SK the more she rubs me the wrong way.
I've said it in another thread but Sue comes across as very insincere to me.

Multiple times in the book and her interviews she repeats the same trite and cliché metaphors. Her use of flowery language really distracts from what she's saying and to me makes it sounds like a piece of literature, a story. And in my opinion further adds to the idea that she deep deep down is still in denial

astrospace92 wrote:

The more I read about SK the more she rubs me the wrong way.
I've said it in another thread but Sue comes across as very insincere to me.

Multiple times in the book and her interviews she repeats the same trite and cliché metaphors. Her use of flowery language really distracts from what she's saying and to me makes it sounds like a piece of literature, a story. And in my opinion further adds to the idea that she deep deep down is still in denial

What do you think of the lengths she goes to to blame and blast Eric?
She says she doesn't blame him but everything else she says proves that she does and sees him as one thoroughly bad seed that led her baby into destruction and death.

PaintItBlack wrote:

astrospace92 wrote:

The more I read about SK the more she rubs me the wrong way.
I've said it in another thread but Sue comes across as very insincere to me.

Multiple times in the book and her interviews she repeats the same trite and cliché metaphors. Her use of flowery language really distracts from what she's saying and to me makes it sounds like a piece of literature, a story. And in my opinion further adds to the idea that she deep deep down is still in denial

What do you think of the lengths she goes to to blame and blast Eric?
She says she doesn't blame him but everything else she says proves that she does and sees him as one thoroughly bad seed that led her baby into destruction and death.

I think she's treading on dangerous ground, because lets face it, the only people who will ever truly understand her are other school shooter / mass shooter relatives. She's further ostracising the Harris family, as far as I'm concerned. We can all point fingers and blame Wayne and Kathy, but I feel Sue's book is going reignite the hatred towards Wayne and Kathy so they can't move on. I wouldn't be surprised if Sue was the one encouraging them not to come forward.

Why was Sue the one who gave permission for the tapes to be destroyed. I think she knows it would show Dylan's true colours and destroy everything she's done to help perpetuate the media myth of Dylan being an "innocent" participant.

I also believe her book is going to ruffle feathers in the mental health community, she's blaming it on depression specifically. Depression, let alone other psychiatric disorders are far misunderstood as it is. Now, people are going to be stigmatising people even more thinking their capable of mass murder simply for having depression. Depression does not cause someone to shoot up their classmates, Sue!


Sidenote: I'm skeptical about Sue's motives, the incidences surrounding her divorce and the fact that Tom hasn't commented at all, to me speaks a thousand words.

astrospace92 wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

astrospace92 wrote:

The more I read about SK the more she rubs me the wrong way.
I've said it in another thread but Sue comes across as very insincere to me.

Multiple times in the book and her interviews she repeats the same trite and cliché metaphors. Her use of flowery language really distracts from what she's saying and to me makes it sounds like a piece of literature, a story. And in my opinion further adds to the idea that she deep deep down is still in denial

What do you think of the lengths she goes to to blame and blast Eric?
She says she doesn't blame him but everything else she says proves that she does and sees him as one thoroughly bad seed that led her baby into destruction and death.

I think she's treading on dangerous ground, because lets face it, the only people who will ever truly understand her are other school shooter / mass shooter relatives. She's further ostracising the Harris family, as far as I'm concerned. We can all point fingers and blame Wayne and Kathy, but I feel Sue's book is going reignite the hatred towards Wayne and Kathy so they can't move on. I wouldn't be surprised if Sue was the one encouraging them not to come forward.

Why was Sue the one who gave permission for the tapes to be destroyed. I think she knows it would show Dylan's true colours and destroy everything she's done to help perpetuate the media myth of Dylan being an "innocent" participant.

I also believe her book is going to ruffle feathers in the mental health community, she's blaming it on depression specifically. Depression, let alone other psychiatric disorders are far misunderstood as it is. Now, people are going to be stigmatising people even more thinking their capable of mass murder simply for having depression. Depression does not cause someone to shoot up their classmates, Sue!


Sidenote: I'm skeptical about Sue's motives, the incidences surrounding her divorce and the fact that Tom hasn't commented at all, to me speaks a thousand words.

I agree with some of what you said. I think Tom doesn't speak out simply because of what Sue said. He is internalizing his pain/possibly trying to forget what happened. I think he wants to remember Dylan the way he was growing up instead of the way he died. I don't blame him for that. Sue seems to be one of those people that thinks everything is logical and needs to be dealt with so she is trying to share her feelings and thoughts. My parents are very similar. My dad prefers to keep everything inside and my mom is the opposite. I do think Sue kept a lot of things inside of herself for a long time. When I saw her on 20/20 shaking like a leaf and holding back tears I didn't see a person who was trying to just make a penny or stir up trouble...she is a victim too and she deserves a right to share her story too. I don't agree with all of what is in her book but I did enjoy reading it.

Lizpuff wrote:

astrospace92 wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

astrospace92 wrote:

The more I read about SK the more she rubs me the wrong way.
I've said it in another thread but Sue comes across as very insincere to me.

Multiple times in the book and her interviews she repeats the same trite and cliché metaphors. Her use of flowery language really distracts from what she's saying and to me makes it sounds like a piece of literature, a story. And in my opinion further adds to the idea that she deep deep down is still in denial

What do you think of the lengths she goes to to blame and blast Eric?
She says she doesn't blame him but everything else she says proves that she does and sees him as one thoroughly bad seed that led her baby into destruction and death.

I think she's treading on dangerous ground, because lets face it, the only people who will ever truly understand her are other school shooter / mass shooter relatives. She's further ostracising the Harris family, as far as I'm concerned. We can all point fingers and blame Wayne and Kathy, but I feel Sue's book is going reignite the hatred towards Wayne and Kathy so they can't move on. I wouldn't be surprised if Sue was the one encouraging them not to come forward.

Why was Sue the one who gave permission for the tapes to be destroyed. I think she knows it would show Dylan's true colours and destroy everything she's done to help perpetuate the media myth of Dylan being an "innocent" participant.

I also believe her book is going to ruffle feathers in the mental health community, she's blaming it on depression specifically. Depression, let alone other psychiatric disorders are far misunderstood as it is. Now, people are going to be stigmatising people even more thinking their capable of mass murder simply for having depression. Depression does not cause someone to shoot up their classmates, Sue!


Sidenote: I'm skeptical about Sue's motives, the incidences surrounding her divorce and the fact that Tom hasn't commented at all, to me speaks a thousand words.

I agree with some of what you said.  I think Tom doesn't speak out simply because of what Sue said.  He is internalizing his pain/possibly trying to forget what happened.  I think he wants to remember Dylan the way he was growing up instead of the way he died.  I don't blame him for that.  Sue seems to be one of those people that thinks everything is logical and needs to be dealt with so she is trying to share her feelings and thoughts.  My parents are very similar.  My dad prefers to keep everything inside and my mom is the opposite.  I do think Sue kept a lot of things inside of herself for a long time.  When I saw her on 20/20 shaking like a leaf and holding back tears I didn't see a person who was trying to just make a penny or stir up trouble...she is a victim too and she deserves a right to share her story too.  I don't agree with all of what is in her book but I did enjoy reading it.

Whilst I agree, I really believe she's still in denial to a certain degree.
I hope we'll hear more from her so certain things can be cleared up.

astrospace92 wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

astrospace92 wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

astrospace92 wrote:

The more I read about SK the more she rubs me the wrong way.
I've said it in another thread but Sue comes across as very insincere to me.

Multiple times in the book and her interviews she repeats the same trite and cliché metaphors. Her use of flowery language really distracts from what she's saying and to me makes it sounds like a piece of literature, a story. And in my opinion further adds to the idea that she deep deep down is still in denial

What do you think of the lengths she goes to to blame and blast Eric?
She says she doesn't blame him but everything else she says proves that she does and sees him as one thoroughly bad seed that led her baby into destruction and death.

I think she's treading on dangerous ground, because lets face it, the only people who will ever truly understand her are other school shooter / mass shooter relatives. She's further ostracising the Harris family, as far as I'm concerned. We can all point fingers and blame Wayne and Kathy, but I feel Sue's book is going reignite the hatred towards Wayne and Kathy so they can't move on. I wouldn't be surprised if Sue was the one encouraging them not to come forward.

Why was Sue the one who gave permission for the tapes to be destroyed. I think she knows it would show Dylan's true colours and destroy everything she's done to help perpetuate the media myth of Dylan being an "innocent" participant.

I also believe her book is going to ruffle feathers in the mental health community, she's blaming it on depression specifically. Depression, let alone other psychiatric disorders are far misunderstood as it is. Now, people are going to be stigmatising people even more thinking their capable of mass murder simply for having depression. Depression does not cause someone to shoot up their classmates, Sue!


Sidenote: I'm skeptical about Sue's motives, the incidences surrounding her divorce and the fact that Tom hasn't commented at all, to me speaks a thousand words.

I agree with some of what you said.  I think Tom doesn't speak out simply because of what Sue said.  He is internalizing his pain/possibly trying to forget what happened.  I think he wants to remember Dylan the way he was growing up instead of the way he died.  I don't blame him for that.  Sue seems to be one of those people that thinks everything is logical and needs to be dealt with so she is trying to share her feelings and thoughts.  My parents are very similar.  My dad prefers to keep everything inside and my mom is the opposite.  I do think Sue kept a lot of things inside of herself for a long time.  When I saw her on 20/20 shaking like a leaf and holding back tears I didn't see a person who was trying to just make a penny or stir up trouble...she is a victim too and she deserves a right to share her story too.  I don't agree with all of what is in her book but I did enjoy reading it.

Whilst I agree, I really believe she's still in denial to a certain degree.
I hope we'll hear more from her so certain things can be cleared up.

I have watched all of the interviews I could get my hands on that Sue has given over the past few months and just pull my hair out. The interviewers all ask the same questions over and over. I would love for someone to do like an open QA so that others can ask her questions. IDK I am just tired of hearing the same stuff over and over.

Lizpuff wrote:

astrospace92 wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

astrospace92 wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

astrospace92 wrote:

The more I read about SK the more she rubs me the wrong way.
I've said it in another thread but Sue comes across as very insincere to me.

Multiple times in the book and her interviews she repeats the same trite and cliché metaphors. Her use of flowery language really distracts from what she's saying and to me makes it sounds like a piece of literature, a story. And in my opinion further adds to the idea that she deep deep down is still in denial

What do you think of the lengths she goes to to blame and blast Eric?
She says she doesn't blame him but everything else she says proves that she does and sees him as one thoroughly bad seed that led her baby into destruction and death.

I think she's treading on dangerous ground, because lets face it, the only people who will ever truly understand her are other school shooter / mass shooter relatives. She's further ostracising the Harris family, as far as I'm concerned. We can all point fingers and blame Wayne and Kathy, but I feel Sue's book is going reignite the hatred towards Wayne and Kathy so they can't move on. I wouldn't be surprised if Sue was the one encouraging them not to come forward.

Why was Sue the one who gave permission for the tapes to be destroyed. I think she knows it would show Dylan's true colours and destroy everything she's done to help perpetuate the media myth of Dylan being an "innocent" participant.

I also believe her book is going to ruffle feathers in the mental health community, she's blaming it on depression specifically. Depression, let alone other psychiatric disorders are far misunderstood as it is. Now, people are going to be stigmatising people even more thinking their capable of mass murder simply for having depression. Depression does not cause someone to shoot up their classmates, Sue!


Sidenote: I'm skeptical about Sue's motives, the incidences surrounding her divorce and the fact that Tom hasn't commented at all, to me speaks a thousand words.

I agree with some of what you said.  I think Tom doesn't speak out simply because of what Sue said.  He is internalizing his pain/possibly trying to forget what happened.  I think he wants to remember Dylan the way he was growing up instead of the way he died.  I don't blame him for that.  Sue seems to be one of those people that thinks everything is logical and needs to be dealt with so she is trying to share her feelings and thoughts.  My parents are very similar.  My dad prefers to keep everything inside and my mom is the opposite.  I do think Sue kept a lot of things inside of herself for a long time.  When I saw her on 20/20 shaking like a leaf and holding back tears I didn't see a person who was trying to just make a penny or stir up trouble...she is a victim too and she deserves a right to share her story too.  I don't agree with all of what is in her book but I did enjoy reading it.

Whilst I agree, I really believe she's still in denial to a certain degree.
I hope we'll hear more from her so certain things can be cleared up.

I have watched all of the interviews I could get my hands on that Sue has given over the past few months and just pull my hair out.  The interviewers all ask the same questions over and over.  I would love for someone to do like an open QA so that others can ask her questions.  IDK I am just tired of hearing the same stuff over and over.

Me too, I mean, in retrospect I can't really blame her for repeating her answers word for word, one semantic slip and people tear her apart.
An Open Q&A would be a great idea, like you said.

What would you ask her?

It would be interesting but very unfair. You see politicians who are trained for that sort of thing tripping up and saying things they don't fully mean or people twisting their words.

astrospace92 wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

astrospace92 wrote:

The more I read about SK the more she rubs me the wrong way.
I've said it in another thread but Sue comes across as very insincere to me.

Multiple times in the book and her interviews she repeats the same trite and cliché metaphors. Her use of flowery language really distracts from what she's saying and to me makes it sounds like a piece of literature, a story. And in my opinion further adds to the idea that she deep deep down is still in denial

What do you think of the lengths she goes to to blame and blast Eric?
She says she doesn't blame him but everything else she says proves that she does and sees him as one thoroughly bad seed that led her baby into destruction and death.

I think she's treading on dangerous ground, because lets face it, the only people who will ever truly understand her are other school shooter / mass shooter relatives. She's further ostracising the Harris family, as far as I'm concerned. We can all point fingers and blame Wayne and Kathy, but I feel Sue's book is going reignite the hatred towards Wayne and Kathy so they can't move on. I wouldn't be surprised if Sue was the one encouraging them not to come forward.

Why was Sue the one who gave permission for the tapes to be destroyed. I think she knows it would show Dylan's true colours and destroy everything she's done to help perpetuate the media myth of Dylan being an "innocent" participant.

I also believe her book is going to ruffle feathers in the mental health community, she's blaming it on depression specifically. Depression, let alone other psychiatric disorders are far misunderstood as it is. Now, people are going to be stigmatising people even more thinking their capable of mass murder simply for having depression. Depression does not cause someone to shoot up their classmates, Sue!


Sidenote: I'm skeptical about Sue's motives, the incidences surrounding her divorce and the fact that Tom hasn't commented at all, to me speaks a thousand words.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
Would you share more of your thoughts on the divorce?I'd love to hear you elaborate further.

I think that Susan can't be completely objective, because Dylan is her son. A loving mother always (even unconsciously) will protect her child. Her mind will always find workarounds, regardless of the evidence.

Love wrote:

I think that Susan can't be completely objective, because Dylan is her son. A loving mother always (even unconsciously) will protect her child. Her mind will always find workarounds, regardless of the evidence.

add in the fact that most everyone from E&D's friends to the FBI leaned heavily toward's Eric as the "alpha" and bearer of blame.. of course Sue is going to follow suit.

Fatheroftwo wrote:

Love wrote:

I think that Susan can't be completely objective, because Dylan is her son. A loving mother always (even unconsciously) will protect her child. Her mind will always find workarounds, regardless of the evidence.

add in the fact that most everyone from E&D's friends to the FBI leaned heavily toward's Eric as the "alpha" and bearer of blame..  of course Sue is going to follow suit.

I don't understand how Eric's parents could just ignore all of this for all this time and not even try to refute some of the claims made against their son. They could've written a book, or made some sort of written statement, if they didn't want to do public speaking like Sue. Or do they agree with the whole Eric was an evil psychopath who led Dylan astray narrative as well.

BlackandWhite wrote:

Fatheroftwo wrote:

Love wrote:

I think that Susan can't be completely objective, because Dylan is her son. A loving mother always (even unconsciously) will protect her child. Her mind will always find workarounds, regardless of the evidence.

add in the fact that most everyone from E&D's friends to the FBI leaned heavily toward's Eric as the "alpha" and bearer of blame..  of course Sue is going to follow suit.

I don't understand how Eric's parents could just ignore all of this for all this time and not even try to refute some of the claims made against their son. They could've written a book, or made some sort of written statement, if they didn't want to do public speaking like Sue. Or do they agree with the whole Eric was an evil psychopath who led Dylan astray narrative as well.

I would like to believe that they do not believe their son was a psychopath, he so obviously wasn't. I don't think they will ever speak out about Eric, they just want to leave this tragedy in the past. I remember reading somewhere that his mom wanted to but, Wayne didn't want her to. I wish they would speak out and clear up some misconceptions.

Scarletmoon wrote:

BlackandWhite wrote:

Fatheroftwo wrote:

Love wrote:

I think that Susan can't be completely objective, because Dylan is her son. A loving mother always (even unconsciously) will protect her child. Her mind will always find workarounds, regardless of the evidence.

add in the fact that most everyone from E&D's friends to the FBI leaned heavily toward's Eric as the "alpha" and bearer of blame..  of course Sue is going to follow suit.

I don't understand how Eric's parents could just ignore all of this for all this time and not even try to refute some of the claims made against their son. They could've written a book, or made some sort of written statement, if they didn't want to do public speaking like Sue. Or do they agree with the whole Eric was an evil psychopath who led Dylan astray narrative as well.

I would like to believe that they do not believe their son was a psychopath, he so obviously wasn't. I don't think they will ever speak out about Eric, they just want to leave this tragedy in the past. I remember reading somewhere that his mom wanted to but, Wayne didn't want her to. I wish they would speak out and clear up some misconceptions.

Of course I understand they'd want to leave it in the past. It's just that's not really happening and I don't think it's a realistic possibility. People are still interested in the shooting, Sue is still talking about it, and there was even a movie recently made about it ("I'm Not Ashamed"). And they're still portraying Eric as the mastermind behind the whole thing. It must be so much worse for his parents to just sit there, listen to people say that Dylan was just a follower, and not say anything when they might've actually had some valuable input on the situation.

Ivan wrote:

I think it's kind of ridiculous for the blame to be entirely shifted onto Eric's shoulders. Doesn't Sue remember when Dylan was intimidating people at a restaurant? The fact he harassed kids in the special education program so badly they didn't even want to show up at school? The fact he approached classmates at a service station brandishing a shotgun mere months before the shooting? The fact he wrote about wanting to go on a shooting rampage 6 months before Eric even created his "journal"?

No, Dylan was not innocent. I'd argue he was more "dangerous" than Eric.


No half-assed report written by a pseudo intellectual "psychologist" is going to convince me otherwise.

Wow, I've never heard of this, can someone direct me to a source of this? Thanks in advance!

Holloka wrote:

Ivan wrote:

I think it's kind of ridiculous for the blame to be entirely shifted onto Eric's shoulders. Doesn't Sue remember when Dylan was intimidating people at a restaurant? The fact he harassed kids in the special education program so badly they didn't even want to show up at school? The fact he approached classmates at a service station brandishing a shotgun mere months before the shooting? The fact he wrote about wanting to go on a shooting rampage 6 months before Eric even created his "journal"?

No, Dylan was not innocent. I'd argue he was more "dangerous" than Eric.


No half-assed report written by a pseudo intellectual "psychologist" is going to convince me otherwise.

Wow,  I've never heard of this, can someone direct me to a source of this? Thanks in advance!

Look for Adam Kyler in the 11k. He was the student that was bullied by Dylan and other members of the TCM

BlackandWhite wrote:

Scarletmoon wrote:

BlackandWhite wrote:

Fatheroftwo wrote:

Love wrote:

I think that Susan can't be completely objective, because Dylan is her son. A loving mother always (even unconsciously) will protect her child. Her mind will always find workarounds, regardless of the evidence.

add in the fact that most everyone from E&D's friends to the FBI leaned heavily toward's Eric as the "alpha" and bearer of blame..  of course Sue is going to follow suit.

I don't understand how Eric's parents could just ignore all of this for all this time and not even try to refute some of the claims made against their son. They could've written a book, or made some sort of written statement, if they didn't want to do public speaking like Sue. Or do they agree with the whole Eric was an evil psychopath who led Dylan astray narrative as well.

I would like to believe that they do not believe their son was a psychopath, he so obviously wasn't. I don't think they will ever speak out about Eric, they just want to leave this tragedy in the past. I remember reading somewhere that his mom wanted to but, Wayne didn't want her to. I wish they would speak out and clear up some misconceptions.

Of course I understand they'd want to leave it in the past. It's just that's not really happening and I don't think it's a realistic possibility. People are still interested in the shooting, Sue is still talking about it, and there was even a movie recently made about it ("I'm Not Ashamed"). And they're still portraying Eric as the mastermind behind the whole thing. It must be so much worse for his parents to just sit there, listen to people say that Dylan was just a follower, and not say anything when they might've actually had some valuable input on the situation.

I agree with you, it's not going anywhere there are too many researchers and columbiners and I don't think it's dying down anytime soon. with Sue's book, the movie and constant mentioned of E&D in the news when there is a "copycat" shooting, I can see why they would want to hide from it all. Eric is looked at as a crazy, psychopathic neo nazi that lead poor Dylan to commit murder/suicide. If they came forward and said "This isn't true, our son wasn't a psychopath" or whatever else they decided to say, they would be in the spotlight because people are interested in this crime as much now as they were when it happened. They would also receive a lot of hate and being very private people I'm sure they don't want any of that. It must be a huge trigger for them constantly seeing things about Columbine even 17 years later, I can't imagine what they went through and how painful it is to see news about it and other school shootings.

As for the book, I definitely thought Sue was putting almost all of the blame on Eric, I even said out loud "Holy shit shes blaming everything on Eric". In my opinion, this started off as Dylans idea and then when he mentioned it to Eric they both built on the idea together. I do sympathize with both E&D I think they had severe mental health issues, they had so much hate in them and I believe by the middle of junior year, they were dead inside. Their senior school pics where Eric is wearing a Rammstein shit and Dylan is wearing a shirt that says "Serial Killer" (holy fuck was he trying to tell people something?" those pictures are so haunting, they are pictures of 2 teens that are just so done with everything and want to get their lives over with but not before taking as many people as they can with them.

Scarletmoon wrote:

BlackandWhite wrote:

Scarletmoon wrote:

BlackandWhite wrote:

Fatheroftwo wrote:

Love wrote:

I think that Susan can't be completely objective, because Dylan is her son. A loving mother always (even unconsciously) will protect her child. Her mind will always find workarounds, regardless of the evidence.

add in the fact that most everyone from E&D's friends to the FBI leaned heavily toward's Eric as the "alpha" and bearer of blame..  of course Sue is going to follow suit.

I don't understand how Eric's parents could just ignore all of this for all this time and not even try to refute some of the claims made against their son. They could've written a book, or made some sort of written statement, if they didn't want to do public speaking like Sue. Or do they agree with the whole Eric was an evil psychopath who led Dylan astray narrative as well.

I would like to believe that they do not believe their son was a psychopath, he so obviously wasn't. I don't think they will ever speak out about Eric, they just want to leave this tragedy in the past. I remember reading somewhere that his mom wanted to but, Wayne didn't want her to. I wish they would speak out and clear up some misconceptions.

Of course I understand they'd want to leave it in the past. It's just that's not really happening and I don't think it's a realistic possibility. People are still interested in the shooting, Sue is still talking about it, and there was even a movie recently made about it ("I'm Not Ashamed"). And they're still portraying Eric as the mastermind behind the whole thing. It must be so much worse for his parents to just sit there, listen to people say that Dylan was just a follower, and not say anything when they might've actually had some valuable input on the situation.

I agree with you, it's not going anywhere there are too many researchers and columbiners and I don't think it's dying down anytime soon. with Sue's book, the movie and constant mentioned of E&D in the news when there is a "copycat" shooting, I can see why they would want to hide from it all. Eric is looked at as a crazy, psychopathic neo nazi that lead poor Dylan to commit murder/suicide. If they came forward and said "This isn't true, our son wasn't a psychopath" or whatever else they decided to say, they would be in the spotlight because people are interested in this crime as much now as they were when it happened. They would also receive a lot of hate and being very private people I'm sure they don't want any of that. It must be a huge trigger for them constantly seeing things about Columbine even 17 years later, I can't imagine what they went through and how painful it is to see news about it and other school shootings.

That's true, I suppose they think there's no way they'd ever be able to convince people to look at it from a different perspective (that Eric wasn't a psychopath) no matter what they said. They receive hate for not speaking up about it, as if they don't even care enough to do so, but the hate would be worse if they did speak up.

Scarletmoon wrote:

As for the book, I definitely thought Sue was putting almost all of the blame on Eric, I even said out loud "Holy shit shes blaming everything on Eric". In my opinion, this started off as Dylans idea and then when he mentioned it to Eric they both built on the idea together. I do sympathize with both E&D I think they had severe mental health issues, they had so much hate in them and I believe by the middle of junior year, they were dead inside. Their senior school pics where Eric is wearing a Rammstein shit and Dylan is wearing a shirt that says "Serial Killer" (holy fuck was he trying to tell people something?" those pictures are so haunting, they are pictures of 2 teens that are just so done with everything and want to get their lives over with but not before taking as many people as they can with them.

It never fails to surprise me that people, even researchers, come to the conclusion that it was Eric's idea when Dylan was writing about it way before he even considered doing it with Eric!

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I don't understand how anyone can think it was Eric's idea either. From the evidence we have, Dylan was clearly talking about going NBK with his "love" long before Eric even started writing about the plan. As I said, it's my opinion that Dylan brought the idea up to Eric and then they built on the idea together. They were both equals and of course both equally responsible. I actually find that Dylan was better at hiding his anger and hate, he fooled everyone whereas Eric was obvious.

A year after the publication of Sue's book and her media blitz, I am still and will always be profoundly disappointed that she chose to go the "Eric was a psychopath who is mostly to blame, he took advantage of Dylan's depression to lead him into this " route the way she did but I've given the whole thing a lot of the thought over the past year and I've realized that we all should have seen this coming.
If you think about it what else could she do to raise some sympathy and understanding for her son but that?  There is really no other route she could have taken.
Of course her book was to share what she and her family went through in this terrible ordeal but I am sure she hoped it would make at least a minority of people who read it see DK in a more sympathetic light and remember him a little more kindly.

I say this however not meaning that Sue only said and did the above for that reason.I am sure that she over the years especially has convinced herself the this is the truth and Eric was a psycho was is mostly to blame and he preyed on DK in his depression leading Dylan down this hopeless path and it wouldn't have happened otherwise.
If Sue didn't truly believe that and if she saw it the way most of us do here, I don't think she could have went on living. Living through such an nightmare is enough to almost kill someone from stress and grief as it is.
Tom and Bryon may believe the same thing as Sue does and that's how they will all able to go on living.
I do regret that yet another false narrative is out there about what happened and  by one  of the boy's Mothers too but there is nothing to be done about it.

That was very well put [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] .Although I am disappointed as well, we have to accept that this is the route she chose. Overall I have a lot of respect for her.

Even if I am still convinced that Eric was at least a little bit more normal than Dylan, I can understand Mrs. Klebold.
It must be incredibly hard to live with this horror for the rest of her life, and no wonder that she tries to give explanations! I cannot blame her for her - sometimes contradictory - opinions. I just cannot imagine how I would feel if I was a parent and had to deal with the mass murder-suicide of my son.
As she had known Dylan completely differently than anyone else did, it would be irrational to expect her to be absolutely objective and justiceful.

(But when it comes to Dylan having had no chance to learn aggression at home, I am a bit sceptical.
I might not remember right, but I read something about Byron Klebold having been thrown out from home, after his parents discovered his substance abuse! And - again, my brain might trick me - if I remember well, he worked at a gas station - in itself, this says nothing, but this is not something I would expect.
Having grown up in a "good family" without serious problems, it is more probable that one would go to college or something, not being kicked out from home and having a low-status job.
I cannot help but think that there were serious problems in that family, problems that no-one recognized or talked about.
Nothing happens without a reason - and, of course, I definitely DON'T mean that hidden problems would justify any violent or murderous action -, but I do think that Byron's story was - maybe - the very first signalizator of the fact that "something went really wrong here".
Maybe it is only me who is lost in combining things?)

In addition: yes, every expert seems to have confirmed that Eric was the leader, so this surely seemed natural for Mrs. Klebold to accept it. This might made the whole tragedy somehow understandable.

And, I absolutely don't blame Eric's family for not speaking or writing about the story in public. They seem to be very private people, and I am sure they would feel even worse if they exposed themselves to all of this... They have the right to not take up the scapegoat role (as both families are seen by certain individuals.) Even if I would like to hear their opinions and maybe some extra info's, I would never bother them.

Just finished to read Sue Klebold's book. Now I understand why so many people said she blamed Eric, because she DOES. It's ridiculous how much she blames him and tries to defend her son. Obviously that's a normal behaviour but I thought/hoped she would have been more unbiased in writing this book. Well, at the end of the day I'm satisfied with it, because now I know more things about what type of guy Dylan was and I feel I'm a little closer to him somehow. I really hope Eric's parents one day will release something more about Eric too. Every little piece will help to complete the puzzle.