E/D followers

(This maybe is the wrong topic? i can't decide.)

I know that Eric said they would have followers because they are so "godlike". And every school shooter you've ever heard of has some interest in Columbine. But reality check here, their plan was pretty much a failure. Bombs didn't go off, only 13 dead, the infamous basement tapes haven't been revealed and last I heard neither Spielberg or Tarantino is making the movie. If you're going to follow someone, shouldn't you follow someone successful?

Anything concerning Columbine, Eric/Dylan, I'd like to keep it in the 'Shooting' section, so I will be moving this. Sorry, I just prefer it to be that way. Misc is for anything else that has nothing to do with Columbine.

It's ironic that the rampage was such a failure when Tuesdays were supposed to be Eric's lucky day according to his astrology. Despite many things that went wrong during the rampage it instantly became the biggest event that happened in the late 90s, considered the most iconic and deadliest school shooting ,E/D gained tons of infamy, we're still talking about it 14 years later, CHS is the most famous high school and people are probably more interested in Columbine than any other school shooting so I think in those regards they were successful.

Wideawake wrote:

I know that Eric said they would have followers because they are so "godlike".

Sorry nitpicking but Dylan said that. I agree with everything else, although I can see the appeal for some people.

Wideawake wrote:

(This maybe is the wrong topic? i can't decide.)

I know that Eric said they would have followers because they are so "godlike". And every school shooter you've ever heard of has some interest in Columbine. But reality check here, their plan was pretty much a failure. Bombs didn't go off, only 13 dead, the infamous basement tapes haven't been revealed and last I heard neither Spielberg or Tarantino is making the movie. If you're going to follow someone, shouldn't you follow someone successful?

They kind of were successful. Maybe not as much as they wanted, but still. And I wonder if they would even think that somobody will make a game about them.

Jenn, thanks for moving this. I went back and forth about where to post it.

I guess my point is, at what point does Columbine get overruled as THE school shooting? Virginia Tech had a bigger body count, Adam Lanza's spree had it's own special bran of horror due to the nature of his victims. But who worships them?

And thanks to areyoulistening for straightening me out on who said it. It just sounds like such an Eric thing to say.

Eric & Dylan were first + they left some interesting insights to puzzle about, while Adam Lanza left pretty much nothing.

Eric & Dylan were first + they left some interesting insights to puzzle about, while Adam Lanza left pretty much nothing.

Depends. Dylan and Eric are nonetheless infamous for their actions. Perhaps someone would follow them purely because of that substantial infamy, rather than the actual failure and nature of the crime.

Wideawake wrote:

Jenn, thanks for moving this. I went back and forth about where to post it.

I guess my point is, at what point does Columbine get overruled as THE school shooting? Virginia Tech had a bigger body count, Adam Lanza's spree had it's own special bran of horror due to the nature of his victims. But who worships them?

And thanks to areyoulistening for straightening me out on who said it. It just sounds like such an Eric thing to say.

Maybe it's because they seemed like such ordinary teenagers? It was during a time when that kind of thing wasn't regular, I guess it set a "standard" of such. The media also plays a massive part in how these things are received. They made Eric and Dylan almost superstars overnight.

You're welcome I thought it was to until I read Dylan's journal and I saw it

I think having followers is more about the action itself, not how it ended up being - as you said, most of the later school shooters had an interest in Columbine.
I think they've been partly unsuccessful with their plan (bombs fucked up, didn't kill the big amount of people they planned to) but also successfull on the other side (other shootings inspired by them, fangirls lol, shocking event, they got known to the public for what they did that day, people still talk and research about it)

This shooting stands out above the rest because Eric and Dylan looked like they were having a good time during the attack. They also looked like they were having a great time planning this whole thing for a year.

Other school shooters come across as tormented loners. People don't look up to those guys because they're not somebody you'd want to be. Who wants to be in pain?

When watching Eric and Dylan I get the feeling they would be a lot of fun to hang out with. They give the impression that shooting up your school would be a fun thing to do.

Wideawake wrote:

(This maybe is the wrong topic? i can't decide.)

I know that Eric said they would have followers because they are so "godlike". And every school shooter you've ever heard of has some interest in Columbine. But reality check here, their plan was pretty much a failure. Bombs didn't go off, only 13 dead, the infamous basement tapes haven't been revealed and last I heard neither Spielberg or Tarantino is making the movie. If you're going to follow someone, shouldn't you follow someone successful?

I know this is old, but I just want to add something. I skipped sleeping last night, so who knows what this is going to sound like...

Maybe E/D have followers because they looked like they were having such a great time both before and during the attack. Personally, I miss that kind of crazy youthful teenage energy. There's something special about it...

It's also touching that E/D were so close to each. It's extremely rare to be able to trust someone else that much.

What I'm trying to say is that maybe E/D achieved some things in life that many people (particularly teenagers) want -passion, genuine friendship etc.

And one more stupid thing: Why would they want Spielberg to produce their movie? WTF? I can understand Tarantino, but Spielberg?

I guess it's because Speilburg is a really famous movie director and maybe they enjoyed some of his movies.

RaiseTheFist wrote:

I skipped sleeping last night, so who knows what this is going to sound like...

Do you ever sleep? Coz I think this is the 2nd or 3rd time I've read you saying you didn't sleep. Insomnia? I used to have it pretty bad, but has gone away as I got old.

Maybe you're right, both with how much fun they appeared to be having and how close they were. (Although do you think it's a little weird how many people said Zach Heckler was Dylan's best friend when police interviewed them? I think it's weird.) I have 2 best friends who I have known basically my whole life and who I am incredibly close to. And there are still things I don't tell them. Imagining telling my best friends that I was thinking about committing a mass murder, well, I think they'd laugh their assess off until they decided I was serious and then they would probably tie me up and drive me straight to the nearest ER for a psych evaluation. The idea of having a friend that you could say something like that to and them be like, "Cool, I want in" blows my mind.

RaiseTheFist wrote:

And one more stupid thing: Why would they want Spielberg to produce their movie? WTF? I can understand Tarantino, but Spielberg?

I'm guessing because he was huge in the 90s? I wonder if a Tarantino-style depiction of Columbine might actually be too much. Like insanity on top of insanity. Would be interesting.

Spielberg's done a lot of great movies and probably owns enough Oscars he could use them as bowling pins.

Wideawake,

Wideawake wrote:

RaiseTheFist wrote:

I skipped sleeping last night, so who knows what this is going to sound like...

Do you ever sleep? Coz I think this is the 2nd or 3rd time I've read you saying you didn't sleep. Insomnia? I used to have it pretty bad, but has gone away as I got old.

I'm grumpy and sick. I got out of hospital a week ago. I was born with internal birth defects that make it difficult for me to make proper use of food. I try my fucking hardest to live a healthy and fit life, but nutritional deficiencies cause me pain. I don't really sleep at all unless I overdose on painkillers.

I let people know that I haven't slept to try and explain why most of time my posts are complete nonsense or just plain weird. I'm also an angry, bitter asshole and hope that people on the forum know that it's nothing personal.

Quote :

Maybe you're right, both with how much fun they appeared to be having and how close they were. (Although do you think it's a little weird how many people said Zach Heckler was Dylan's best friend when police interviewed them? I think it's weird.)

Yeah. That is weird actually. I'm going to think about that for a while and get back to you. Maybe Dylan had more classes with Zack, so they were seen together more often? I'm also not sure that Eric had a lot of close friends beside Dylan, whose social circle seems wider. I honestly haven't read much of the 11k yet, but does anyone claim to be Eric's "best friend" or just "someone who knows him/hung out with him"? Dylan has quite a few people who claim to have been very close to him, but as for Eric...?

Quote :

I have 2 best friends who I have known basically my whole life and who I am incredibly close to. And there are still things I don't tell them. Imagining telling my best friends that I was thinking about committing a mass murder, well, I think they'd laugh their assess off until they decided I was serious and then they would probably tie me up and drive me straight to the nearest ER for a psych evaluation. The idea of having a friend that you could say something like that to and them be like, "Cool, I want in" blows my mind.

If a friend of mine told me they were going to go on a rampage, I honestly wouldn't stop them. Is that evil? I'd feel torn between getting my friend in serious trouble and preventing innocent deaths. In the end, I care more about my friends than I do about society. How evil is that? If I'd known E/D and they told me what they were going to do, I will be honest and say that I wouldn't have prevented it. I probably would have cheered them on.

But still, E/D's friendship is basically the "ideal" for friendships, IMHO.

CatherineM813, Wideawake, MnM,
I know Spielberg was famous in the 90s and is a popular director, but his movies usually have a sentimental happiness about them. What sort of movie did E/D think Spielberg would make if he based it on them? I don't think they'd be happy with the end product...

Quote :

I wonder if a Tarantino-style depiction of Columbine might actually be too much. Like insanity on top of insanity. Would be interesting.

Here I go being an insensitive jerk again, but I would like to see a Tarantino-style depiction of Columbine. I would also like to see the makers of the movie Kick-Ass take on Columbine (the First Person Shooter scene in that movie would be good for Eric, the wanking scene might be good for Dylan ).

I could be wrong but I think Eric's only real best friend was Dylan. Sure he had a lot of other good friends like Chris, Zach, Nate and Brooks for awhile. But Chris was drifting away from them when he started dating Nicole. Eric had falling outs with Zach and Nate over girls but they eventually got over it. And after everything that happened with Brooks I could see why they stopped being friends. But Eric remained loyal to Dylan and vice versa until the very end. They had a very special and unique bond obviously. Eric was also had close friendships with girls
Like Sara Arbogast who would often have hearts to hearts with him, Kim Carlin, Kristi Epling
Who would listen to his problems and I believe things could have worked out between him
And Susan Dewitt.

If it were me and I thought my friends were serious about committing mass murder I would definitely do something about it. This way they can get the help they desperately need and innocent lives would not be taken away and people wouldn't have to go through the devestation Alot of times doing nothing is just as bad as doing something.

CatherineM813 wrote:

I could be wrong but I think Eric's only real best friend was Dylan.

I get the feeling that Dylan made friends easier than Eric.

Quote :

Eric was also had close friendships with girls Like Sara Arbogast who would often have hearts to hearts with him

I don't mean to be a pain in the ass, but do you know the exact whereabouts of this information? I've never read this part and would be keen to.

Quote :

If it were me and I thought my friends were serious about committing mass murder I would definitely do something about it. This way they can get the help they desperately need and innocent lives would not be taken away and people wouldn't have to go through the devestation Alot of times doing nothing is just as bad as doing something.

I don't feel I have a duty to protect society. I don't believe it's immoral to do nothing. I believe the responsibility always lies with the mass murderer themselves.

You don't have to answer this question, but... If you'd been friends with E/D and had stopped them from attacking Columbine, getting them in serious legal trouble, and this legal trouble had then made E/D even more angry, and they'd gone on to commit something bigger than Columbine... How would you feel?

If one of my friends were so angry that they were willing to commit mass murder, I'm pretty sure that any "help" would make it worse.

I also get that feeling. Dylan grew up in Colorado and probably went to high school with a lot of people that he also went to grade school with. Plus it doesn't seem that Dylan had falling outs with friends and didn't get mad at people over the smallest of things like Eric. I obviously didn't know him so I could be wrong but that's just the impression that I get.

Don't worry you are not being a pain. I enjoy finding this stuff up actually. It makes me feel useful. And here is the information. I found this on the Columbine Tag on Tumblr but it came from an actual article.

“Two co-workers, Kim Carlin and Sara Arbogast, were in the same grade as Eric and Dylan.
Sara: “Eric was nice and talkative and funny and just a cool guy. He never expressed any hate toward anything, just the normal teen-age angst. A lot of people say they don’t like school. I said it all the time.”
Kim: “Dylan and me never got heart-to-heart like me and Eric would. I don’t think Dylan fit into us very well. He was too quiet. We would get into massive food fights or water fights. He wasn’t into playing with us. If you would ask him something embarrassing he’d turn red and give you this little grin.”
On slow nights, the crew would sit behind the building and set off firecrackers or homemade explosives.
“We used to make dry-ice balls behind the store,” Kim said. “You put dry ice and hot water in a 2-liter bottle. It just shoots up. We stole a cone one time when they did road construction in the parking lot. We would see how high we could shoot the cone.”
One night Dylan brought a pipe bomb to work. The manager wrote him up and told him to never do that again.
Shortly afterward, Dylan quit Blackjack. Eric stayed.
Kim and Sara grew closer to Eric. He complained that some jocks were bullying him.
Sara never witnessed any taunting, but she did see classmates give Eric weird looks. She thought it was because of how he dressed. The boy who wore khaki when he started at Blackjack now draped himself in black cargo pants and black T-shirts, just like his friend Chris Morris.
But Eric drew the line at wearing a beret like Chris, opting for a baseball cap worn backward.
Kim and Sara couldn’t understand why their classmates didn’t like Eric.
“No one ever gave him a chance,” Kim said. “People always looked at me because I would go over and hug him in the morning.”
Sara would tease him about a co-worker he briefly dated. He would call Sara “Ohzay BooBoo,” a phrase he picked up from the movie Ace Ventura, Pet Detective.
When Eric got his senior pictures taken and whined about how “stupid” he looked, Kim and Sara cooed about how cute he was and helped him choose prints.
When Eric harped that girls wouldn’t have anything to do with him, Kim and Sara invited him to hang out with them. Sometimes he went bowling, but many times he refused, telling them he thought he wouldn’t fit in.
Eric did join Kim and Sara and their friends homecoming night of their junior year. They had skipped the school dance for dinner at the Old Spaghetti Factory in downtown Denver. When they arrived to pick up Eric, they had to wait 10 minutes until his mother got home.”

And as for Eric thanking Kristi for listening to all his problems can be found on The Columbine Tag thread. The yearbook entry is quite amusing. Incase you also want to read that as well.

CatherineM813 wrote:

I also get that feeling. Dylan grew up in Colorado and probably went to high school with a lot of people that he also went to grade school with. Plus it doesn't seem that Dylan had falling outs with friends and didn't get mad at people over the smallest of things like Eric. I obviously didn't know him so I could be wrong but that's just the impression that I get.

Don't worry you are not being a pain. I enjoy finding this stuff up actually. It makes me feel useful. And here is the information. I found this on the Columbine Tag on Tumblr but it came from an actual article.

“Two co-workers, Kim Carlin and Sara Arbogast, were in the same grade as Eric and Dylan.
Sara: “Eric was nice and talkative and funny and just a cool guy. He never expressed any hate toward anything, just the normal teen-age angst. A lot of people say they don’t like school. I said it all the time.”
Kim: “Dylan and me never got heart-to-heart like me and Eric would. I don’t think Dylan fit into us very well. He was too quiet. We would get into massive food fights or water fights. He wasn’t into playing with us. If you would ask him something embarrassing he’d turn red and give you this little grin.”
On slow nights, the crew would sit behind the building and set off firecrackers or homemade explosives.
“We used to make dry-ice balls behind the store,” Kim said. “You put dry ice and hot water in a 2-liter bottle. It just shoots up. We stole a cone one time when they did road construction in the parking lot. We would see how high we could shoot the cone.”
One night Dylan brought a pipe bomb to work. The manager wrote him up and told him to never do that again.
Shortly afterward, Dylan quit Blackjack. Eric stayed.
Kim and Sara grew closer to Eric. He complained that some jocks were bullying him.
Sara never witnessed any taunting, but she did see classmates give Eric weird looks. She thought it was because of how he dressed. The boy who wore khaki when he started at Blackjack now draped himself in black cargo pants and black T-shirts, just like his friend Chris Morris.
But Eric drew the line at wearing a beret like Chris, opting for a baseball cap worn backward.
Kim and Sara couldn’t understand why their classmates didn’t like Eric.
“No one ever gave him a chance,” Kim said. “People always looked at me because I would go over and hug him in the morning.”
Sara would tease him about a co-worker he briefly dated. He would call Sara “Ohzay BooBoo,” a phrase he picked up from the movie Ace Ventura, Pet Detective.
When Eric got his senior pictures taken and whined about how “stupid” he looked, Kim and Sara cooed about how cute he was and helped him choose prints.
When Eric harped that girls wouldn’t have anything to do with him, Kim and Sara invited him to hang out with them. Sometimes he went bowling, but many times he refused, telling them he thought he wouldn’t fit in.
Eric did join Kim and Sara and their friends homecoming night of their junior year. They had skipped the school dance for dinner at the Old Spaghetti Factory in downtown Denver. When they arrived to pick up Eric, they had to wait 10 minutes until his mother got home.”

And as for Eric thanking Kristi for listening to all his problems can be found on The Columbine Tag thread. The yearbook entry is quite amusing. Incase you also want to read that as well.

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!

I wonder if one of these girls mentioned above are the girl that Eric wants to "just fuck like hell", in his journal? I wonder if they've read Eric's journal and know who he's talking about?

The writing in Kristi's yearbook is VERY interesting, especially comparing it to Eric's journal. The anger is present in both, as is the emphasis Eric places on "self awareness", which makes me believe that Eric REALLY wanted to chat about his disappointment in the world with someone. Also, Eric definitely doesn't sound insecure, as some people have said he was. Ranting like that in a girl's yearbook isn't an insecure thing to do, and I can't imagine Dylan doing it.

The interview with Kim and Sara makes me believe that Eric was perfectly kind and friendly towards people who treated him that way.

Did Eric ever date any of these girls? If not, I wonder why?

WELCOME!! I'm glad I could help

One of those girls could have been the person Eric was talking about in that fantasy. He did say that she practically made him drool when she wore those shorts to work. And Sara and Kim also Worked at Blackjack.


I laughed the entire time I was reading the yearbook entry. Most people in high school don't
Write stuff like that in people's yearbooks but it doesn't suprise me one bit that Eric did. And yes I completely agree.


And I don't think he dated Sara, Kim or Kristi. I think they remained good friends though and Eric actually had a falling out with Nate over Kristi. Once I'm on a laptop instead of an iPhone I can show you where I found their pictures. They were all very pretty.

RaiseTheFist, that really sucks. It's hard to NOT be an asshole when you don't sleep well. So far we're getting along fabulously so I don't think you're an asshole. But if you ever are, I'll keep this in mind. I don't have any reason for my attitude, seems to be my personality, but feel free to call me on it if I ever get bitchy at you.

I think Zach and Dylan were close for a long time and people kinda assumed they were still close. And from the sound of things, they still talked on the phone every night and such. I guess Dylan had more friends because he had lived in the area his whole life. And really, he was probably easier to get along with. For the most part, he generally just stayed in the background and rolled with it. Eric, on the other hand, did pretty well with females (as friends) but most guys didn't seem to care for him. Again, wonder if this relates to his whininess and complaints about being picked on, etc. A girl will want to comfort someone, whereas guys are more likely to ignore it.

Talking about their friendships...Eric Veik. I read somewhere that he pretty much idolized Eric and Dylan. He's in several of their videos, as the cameraman usually. He admits in the 11K to being the one who physically typed the message into the system about "Today is going to be a bad day" or whatever it was. (And funny that no one seems to know just what the message said. I would think it'd be easy to check. Huh.) The next year, he was investigated by police after threatening to "finish the job Eric and Dylan started" or something along those lines. I think that would constitute a pretty close friendship, but I've never read anybody saying that he was good friends with them.

Wideawake wrote:

The next year, he was investigated by police after threatening to "finish the job Eric and Dylan started" or something along those lines.

Dude what! I had no idea about that, insane. Wasn't Nate Dykeman and Chris Morris also better friends with Eric? I know that Chris had said a couple of years ago that he now hated them both because they had ruined his life, I don't know how he feels now though.

areyoulistening wrote:

Wideawake wrote:

The next year, he was investigated by police after threatening to "finish the job Eric and Dylan started" or something along those lines.

Dude what! I had no idea about that, insane. Wasn't Nate Dykeman and Chris Morris also better friends with Eric? I know that Chris had said a couple of years ago that he now hated them both because they had ruined his life, I don't know how he feels now though.

I went back to check the dates on that, didn't realize until then that 1) he was investigated by police in May 1999 after he made statements about how easy it would be to smuggle explosives into Chatfield and 2) arrested in October 1999 for threatening to finish the job. This website I found also says he was also investigated in relation to a plot to blow up another school, but I've never heard that anywhere else and have no info to back that up.

If I remember correctly, Nate was actually closer to Dylan and Chris was closer to Eric. A lot of people thought Chris was involved because he apparently had a reputation for being pretty violent. One of them, or maybe both, actually failed their police-issued lie detector tests. Of course, we know those things aren't 100% accurate. In any case, I don't blame Chris for being pissed off at them. Hopefully after 14 years he has found a way to move on and forgive them. For his sake, not theirs.

Wideawake wrote:

I went back to check the dates on that, didn't realize until then that 1) he was investigated by police in May 1999 after he made statements about how easy it would be to smuggle explosives into Chatfield and 2) arrested in October 1999 for threatening to finish the job. This website I found also says he was also investigated in relation to a plot to blow up another school, but I've never heard that anywhere else and have no info to back that up.

Wow that's insane, any idea what happened to him?

Wideawake wrote:

If I remember correctly, Nate was actually closer to Dylan and Chris was closer to Eric.

Sorry my mistake

Wideawake wrote:

In any case, I don't blame Chris for being pissed off at them. Hopefully after 14 years he has found a way to move on and forgive them. For his sake, not theirs.

I do not blame him at all, his life was a complete shambles afterwards the poor guy. I do hope that he's moved on to. It's not healthy to keep holding on to rage like that, I hope he's alright.

areyoulistening wrote:

Wideawake wrote:

I went back to check the dates on that, didn't realize until then that 1) he was investigated by police in May 1999 after he made statements about how easy it would be to smuggle explosives into Chatfield and 2) arrested in October 1999 for threatening to finish the job. This website I found also says he was also investigated in relation to a plot to blow up another school, but I've never heard that anywhere else and have no info to back that up.

Wow that's insane, any idea what happened to him?

Wideawake wrote:

If I remember correctly, Nate was actually closer to Dylan and Chris was closer to Eric.

Sorry my mistake

Wideawake wrote:

In any case, I don't blame Chris for being pissed off at them. Hopefully after 14 years he has found a way to move on and forgive them. For his sake, not theirs.

I do not blame him at all, his life was a complete shambles afterwards the poor guy. I do hope that he's moved on to. It's not healthy to keep holding on to rage like that, I hope he's alright.

I have heard he does some kind of lighting or similar for theater companies in the Denver area, but I couldn't even tell you where I got that from.

As for Chris and Nate, like I said, that's IF I remember correctly. I could be way off. Over the last year, I have read and watched so much Columbine-related stuff and for the first 6 months or so I didn't bother to take notes or archive anything, just absorbed it. I have been doing better, but I still don't have it all together.

CatherineM813 wrote:

And I don't think he dated Sara, Kim or Kristi. I think they remained good friends though and Eric actually had a falling out with Nate over Kristi. Once I'm on a laptop instead of an iPhone I can show you where I found their pictures. They were all very pretty.

I was just going to ask if you knew what these girls looked like! Please do, if you get the chance, post a link to their pictures...

As for Eric's rant in Kristi's yearbook. Sometimes, I take a look at all the Columbine stuff, but imagine that E/D never got around to attacking their school. Without the attack to make Eric look all scary and evil, his writing just looks very immature and lacking in self-control. Since I imagine that most girls would want to eventually have children later in life, Eric's anger might have been off-putting to females, yet he shares it with them as if he personally believes it's something to be proud of.

RaiseTheFist wrote:

he shares it with them as if he personally believes it's something to be proud of.

I think that he was. It was his personality, it's how he saw the world so naturally that's going to reflect and pour out into his everyday life.
He wasn't putting on a show or a mask of pleasantries with these girls which makes me think that he was genuinely relaxed with them and could show this side of himself in their company.

Wideawake wrote:

RaiseTheFist, that really sucks. It's hard to NOT be an asshole when you don't sleep well. So far we're getting along fabulously so I don't think you're an asshole. But if you ever are, I'll keep this in mind. I don't have any reason for my attitude, seems to be my personality, but feel free to call me on it if I ever get bitchy at you.

Thank you. And a REALLY mean that. You're "attitude" is so darn nice. For me, I'm probably going to regret 99% of the stuff I say on this forum. If people who know me in real life came across this forum, they'd definitely know it was me.

Quote :

I think Zach and Dylan were close for a long time and people kinda assumed they were still close. And from the sound of things, they still talked on the phone every night and such. I guess Dylan had more friends because he had lived in the area his whole life. And really, he was probably easier to get along with. For the most part, he generally just stayed in the background and rolled with it. Eric, on the other hand, did pretty well with females (as friends) but most guys didn't seem to care for him. Again, wonder if this relates to his whininess and complaints about being picked on, etc. A girl will want to comfort someone, whereas guys are more likely to ignore it.

Do you know how much Eric hung out socially with these females? Did the ones he worked with hang out with him socially, or was it just that they were friends at work mostly?

I wonder if Eric was ever pissed off that Dylan had more friends?

Quote :

Talking about their friendships...Eric Veik. I read somewhere that he pretty much idolized Eric and Dylan. He's in several of their videos, as the cameraman usually. He admits in the 11K to being the one who physically typed the message into the system about "Today is going to be a bad day" or whatever it was. (And funny that no one seems to know just what the message said. I would think it'd be easy to check. Huh.) The next year, he was investigated by police after threatening to "finish the job Eric and Dylan started" or something along those lines. I think that would constitute a pretty close friendship, but I've never read anybody saying that he was good friends with them.

I've seen you post somewhere else that you think some of E/D friends must have known about the attack (in some incomplete way) but they kept it to themselves. I completely agree. Eric couldn't keep quiet and ranted to seemingly everyone. I had NO idea that Eric Veik made threats... I'm going to go and research that more now! I want to know more!

areyoulistening wrote:

RaiseTheFist wrote:

he shares it with them as if he personally believes it's something to be proud of.

I think that he was. It was his personality, it's how he saw the world so naturally that's going to reflect and pour out into his everyday life.
He wasn't putting on a show or a mask of pleasantries with these girls which makes me think that he was genuinely relaxed with them and could show this side of himself in their company.

I just wonder where Eric thought he was heading with these girls. He basically tells a girl, "People are so fucking dumb. I fucking want to burn [certain people]. And I love building bombs!" I get that he was comfortable with these girls, but was he trying to get them to comfort him, or fuck him? Why share your problems with someone who almost certainly isn't going to feel the same? Surely he didn't expect them to turn around and say, "Yeah. I want to burn the world too. I totally understand your urges to kill, kill, kill."

Was Eric fishing around, looking for other people with homicidal thoughts? Or were his homicidal thoughts his entire world and he had nothing else upon which to forge a friendship?

RaiseTheFist wrote:

I just wonder where Eric thought he was heading with these girls. He basically tells a girl, "People are so fucking dumb. I fucking want to burn [certain people]. And I love building bombs!" I get that he was comfortable with these girls, but was he trying to get them to comfort him, or fuck him? Why share your problems with someone who almost certainly isn't going to feel the same? Surely he didn't expect them to turn around and say, "Yeah. I want to burn the world too. I totally understand your urges to kill, kill, kill."

Was Eric fishing around, looking for other people with homicidal thoughts? Or were his homicidal thoughts his entire world and he had nothing else upon which to forge a friendship?

Maybe it was something that he "joked" about every so often but secretly meant what he said. We don't know anything about him other than what he had left and peoples word on things. We don't know how he said things, his tone of voice, facial expressions or body language. We don't know much about his sense of humor either so it's impossible to know how they picked up what he meant when he said things like this. It obviously wasn't worrying to them so they must have taken it either as sarcasm or brushed it off as a rant that was just words.

Side note:

This is Kristi Epling.
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This is Kim Carlin.
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And last but not least Sara Aborgast

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areyoulistening wrote:

Maybe it was something that he "joked" about every so often but secretly meant what he said. We don't know anything about him other than what he had left and peoples word on things. We don't know how he said things, his tone of voice, facial expressions or body language. We don't know much about his sense of humor either so it's impossible to know how they picked up what he meant when he said things like this. It obviously wasn't worrying to them so they must have taken it either as sarcasm or brushed it off as a rant that was just words.

I agree with much of what you said here, I've often wondered how much of his behavior was simply tolerated by others because either they didn't care or they just accepted his personality was just like that. Like you said we don't know what the intention behind what he said was or how others may have interpreted this. He could have been joking, could have been analyzing peoples reactions, he may have even said some things just for fun to scare people. I wonder how much of what he did say to others was almost like some kind of power trip, like he knew exactly what he was going to do and was teasing people, perhaps laughing internally about how stupid they are for not taking what he said seriously. Or he could have meant everything he said.

Sometimes looking over the things he said to people coupled with the fact his hit list was basically public knowledge, it astounds me to think he really didn't understand why people may have considered him weird or not wanted to hang out with him.

queenfarooq wrote:

Sometimes looking over the things he said to people coupled with the fact his hit list was basically public knowledge, it astounds me to think he really didn't understand why people may have considered him weird or not wanted to hang out with him.

This was my point. What reaction was he expecting from people? He doesn't seem to think he's being weird and sometimes it seems that he was actively trying to find people like himself by being so public. The rant in Kristi's yearbook is OTT, but it's so detailed that I feel like Eric wanted genuine validation from her.

RaiseTheFist wrote:

queenfarooq wrote:

Sometimes looking over the things he said to people coupled with the fact his hit list was basically public knowledge, it astounds me to think he really didn't understand why people may have considered him weird or not wanted to hang out with him.

This was my point. What reaction was he expecting from people? He doesn't seem to think he's being weird and sometimes it seems that he was actively trying to find people like himself by being so public. The rant in Kristi's yearbook is OTT, but it's so detailed that I feel like Eric wanted genuine validation from her.

Or a cry for help. Didn't he tell his therapist about his homicidal feelings?

areyoulistening wrote:

Side note:

This is Kristi Epling.
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This is Kim Carlin.
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And last but not least Sara Aborgast

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THANK YOU!

Yeah, they're all above average in looks.

I read somewhere that Kristi had a crush on Eric, but he wasn't interested at the time, and only took an interest in her after she started dating Nate? Is there any truth in that? I can't imagine that Eric would turn her down.

areyoulistening wrote:

RaiseTheFist wrote:

queenfarooq wrote:

Sometimes looking over the things he said to people coupled with the fact his hit list was basically public knowledge, it astounds me to think he really didn't understand why people may have considered him weird or not wanted to hang out with him.

This was my point. What reaction was he expecting from people? He doesn't seem to think he's being weird and sometimes it seems that he was actively trying to find people like himself by being so public. The rant in Kristi's yearbook is OTT, but it's so detailed that I feel like Eric wanted genuine validation from her.

Or a cry for help. Didn't he tell his therapist about his homicidal feelings?

But think about the EiC video when they're talking about the guy coming down the stairs. Eric says he wants to rip off some body part - heart, head, somebody help me coz I just blanked - and eat it. And somebody else says me too. But the way Eric said it was totally at odds with the statement. It was nonchalant, non-threatening, even apathetic. And the fact that somebody echoed the sentiment seems to say that this was normal and socially acceptable.

RaiseTheFist wrote:

THANK YOU!

Yeah, they're all above average in looks.

I read somewhere that Kristi had a crush on Eric, but he wasn't interested at the time, and only took an interest in her after she started dating Nate? Is there any truth in that? I can't imagine that Eric would turn her down.

YOU'RE WELCOME!

I read that wrong! I read it as "Yeah, they're all pretty average in looks" I was going to ask if you if you were blind!

They're very pretty, if Kim is the girl that he's talking about in his sex rant, I can see why he'd be attracted to her.

Yeah I've heard that to but I have no idea if it's true or not. I can't see Eric turning anyone down (is that bad?) especially someone as pretty as her.

Wideawake wrote:

But think about the EiC video when they're talking about the guy coming down the stairs. Eric says he wants to rip off some body part - heart, head, somebody help me coz I just blanked - and eat it. And somebody else says me too. But the way Eric said it was totally at odds with the statement. It was nonchalant, non-threatening, even apathetic. And the fact that somebody echoed the sentiment seems to say that this was normal and socially acceptable.

That's what I meant earlier up the post when I said about the comments in that girls yearbook. We have no idea how commonplace his comment actually was and how they would have taken it. I'm under the personal opinion that it was just how he said things on the regular so they were used to it and took in a sarcastic manner.

areyoulistening wrote:

RaiseTheFist wrote:

queenfarooq wrote:

Sometimes looking over the things he said to people coupled with the fact his hit list was basically public knowledge, it astounds me to think he really didn't understand why people may have considered him weird or not wanted to hang out with him.

This was my point. What reaction was he expecting from people? He doesn't seem to think he's being weird and sometimes it seems that he was actively trying to find people like himself by being so public. The rant in Kristi's yearbook is OTT, but it's so detailed that I feel like Eric wanted genuine validation from her.

Or a cry for help. Didn't he tell his therapist about his homicidal feelings?

Yeah. He ticked off Homicidal Thoughts as one the problems he suffered from. I believe that Eric wanted to talk about his worldview with others, but I'm not sure he actually wanted to be talked out of it. This is why I feel sorry for him -he seemed, in my eyes anyway, to be genuinely exploring himself, but the people around him couldn't/weren't interested in having a serious discussion with him.

areyoulistening wrote:

Wideawake wrote:

But think about the EiC video when they're talking about the guy coming down the stairs. Eric says he wants to rip off some body part - heart, head, somebody help me coz I just blanked - and eat it. And somebody else says me too. But the way Eric said it was totally at odds with the statement. It was nonchalant, non-threatening, even apathetic. And the fact that somebody echoed the sentiment seems to say that this was normal and socially acceptable.

That's what I meant earlier up the post when I said about the comments in that girls yearbook. We have no idea how commonplace his comment actually was and how they would have taken it. I'm under the personal opinion that it was just how he said things on the regular so they were used to it and took in a sarcastic manner.

I know that teenagers talk this way all the time (especially video game players -on a side note, Eric's superiority thing -calling himself "God"- is pretty common amongst gamers too, which is something you-know-fucking-who never takes into account). And if one of them makes a violent comment, the others aren't going to look like a douche by taking them seriously. I know that Eric's comments were probably very normal amongst his group of friends.

But I do feel like Eric took it further than the average teen, like his comments were said non-seriously, but he was fishing for further discussion.

I wonder how much E/D's friends made these kind of violent comments first or how much Eric made them and his friends simply agreed.

When I watch the Rampart Range video, I find it easy to imagine that E/D are thinking about killing real people while they shoot. And (to me anyway) it looks like the other guys in the video pick up on E/D's violent mood and have fun with it too, maybe without consciously realizing it.

I also like to wonder about how E/D came to the realization that they were both willing to commit real life mass murder... Who made the first move, so to speak?

Did Dylan first say something like, "I think about killing myself" and Eric say something like, "Nah. Don't kill yourself, take other people with you before you do it."

Or did Eric say something like, "Man. I want to do a real life mass murder" and Dylan say, "What a strange coincidence, I want to do that too."

Sorry... just some stupid thoughts of mine.

It's not stupid. I would LOVE to hear how it first got brought up. Maybe they were talking about previous school shootings and then they were saying how much they wished they could do the same. Or maybe they had a terrible day at school and one of them said something like man I would really love to blow/shoot this place up. And the other agreed.

And here is Alyssa Sechler. Another girl Eric had a crush on. She's also very pretty.
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I'd also be fascinated to know how the whole idea was originally brought up. How would you actually raise the topic? I always believed it was more than likely said as a joke and somewhere along the lines became serious. But the more I think about it the more I ponder other alternatives. Perhaps one of them had a bad day at school, vented their frustrations and anger, made some comments about blowing up the school and the other agreed and it went from there. There's so many possibilities and unfortunately it's one of those topics we may never know the answer to but one we could go on to constantly speculate.

queenfarooq wrote:

I'd also be fascinated to know how the whole idea was originally brought up. How would you actually raise the topic? I always believed it was more than likely said as a joke and somewhere along the lines became serious. But the more I think about it the more I ponder other alternatives. Perhaps one of them had a bad day at school, vented their frustrations and anger, made some comments about blowing up the school and the other agreed and it went from there. There's so many possibilities and unfortunately it's one of those topics we may never know the answer to but one we could go on to constantly speculate.

Dylan after drinking a fifth of vodka: We should blow up that fucking place.
Eric, totally sober: Dude, I like it.

The next day...
Eric: We need to start making plans. Here's how we're going to do it. I was up all night researching how to make bombs.
Dylan: Are you for real? (shrugs) Well, I kinda want to die anyway. So cool.


And so it began. No, I don't think this is how it really went. But I can see it.

CatherineM813 wrote:

It's not stupid. I would LOVE to hear how it first got brought up. Maybe they were talking about previous school shootings and then they were saying how much they wished they could do the same. Or maybe they had a terrible day at school and one of them said something like man I would really love to blow/shoot this place up. And the other agreed.

And here is Alyssa Sechler. Another girl Eric had a crush on. She's also very pretty.
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Thanks for that too! Is it just the girls that Eric hung out with that were pretty, or is it the whole school? They seem more attractive than the average school girl?

On E/D hooking up for mass murder: I read somewhere that it wasn't uncommon for kids at that school to joke about a shooting taking place. School shootings were kinda "cool" in the 90s anyway. E/D expressed contempt for previous school shooters, but this seems to be mostly due to disgust for the small body count the shooters achieved. Maybe Eric thought something like, "This makes me sick. I'm going to show them how to do a massacre properly. No slacking."

I also wonder about their conversations during the planning. Was it like, "Cool! You're left-handed and I'm right-handed so we can split a single pair of gloves between us during the shooting. Don't want sore hands."

Welcome! I've noticed that too but one of the girls he briefly dated was Sasha Jacobs. After they broke up he wrote in one his friends yearbook that she was a fat, trendy, ugly, whinny and an annoying bitch and only went out with her because he felt bad for her. Eric could definitely be an ass when he wanted to be.

I don't think it was to uncommon earlier. After all the school shootings that happened before Columbine, Brooks stated that everyone said Columbine would be next because of all the bullying that happens. I do remember E/D mentioning those things basement tapes(ughhhh release them already!!) but Eric was saying something like don't think we're copying anyone. We had the idea before the first one ever happened. Not like those kids in Jonesboro and Oregon. They were only trying to be accepted by others. And since they were hoping for followers they wanted to show other people how to do it the proper way like when Dylan said if you are going to follow us then do it right.

Out of all the things I've wondered about Columbine and wish I could know and ask them that thought has never crossed my mind. But their hands obviously did get pretty sore in Rampart Range after sawing them off.

CatherineM813 wrote:

Welcome! I've noticed that too but one of the girls he briefly dated was Sasha Jacobs. After they broke up he wrote in one his friends yearbook that she was a fat, trendy, ugly, whinny and an annoying bitch and only went out with her because he felt bad for her. Eric could definitely be an ass when he wanted to be.

He could be the ultimate ass when he wanted to be. It's one think to call her whinny and annoying, but it really bugs me when people call other people fat and ugly, it's unnecessary. I'm going to assume she ditched him first? He sounds butt-hurt in that note in the yearbook, knowing that those comments would get back to her.

Jackass.

They went out for a while if memory serves me right didn't they? Any idea what she's like? I going to assume she's another brunette. I don't know why I have just always imagined her as one.

True and yes I agree. Based on that entry I assume she broke up with him first. And he wrote all those mean things to get back at her. With his relationship with Sasha and others I wonder why they broke up in the first place. Maybe he complained to much about people being mean to him, possibly wasn't romantic enough, got jealous easily, acted too clingy and needy, etc. Who knows!


I don't know how long they dated but probably for a short period of time. I don't know much about Sasha or what she looked like in high school or today. But her dad was mentioned in Wayne's journal. I could be wrong but if I remember correctly he was a therapist and Wayne was looking into her dad being Eric's therapist.
Also I found Sara Arbogast on Facebook and many others and she looks the EXACT same. I'm positive it's her because she has tons of pictures of herself and friends.