Dylan to Sean Graves: "Sorry dude."

Anyone catch "Crime Watch Daily" today? They did a special Columbine episode with interviews from Sean Graves, Craig Scott, and Isiah Shoels' father Michael. I can't find the whole episode, but there are some clips up on YouTube.


According to Sean Graves Dylan stepped ON him as he entered the cafeteria. Sean had tried to play dead, but feeling the weight of Dylan's body caused him to flinch. Dylan's response? "Sorry dude." Thats cold blooded man.


He also said he finds it therapeutic to go on YouTube and play a game he calls "where am I in the security footage". He said there are still little things about that day that he does t have answers for, but that hell keep looking for them. I thought it was kind of interesting that the large wealth of information on the massacre has helped someone cope.

Nirvana92 wrote:

Anyone catch "Crime Watch Daily" today? They did a special Columbine episode with interviews from Sean Graves, Craig Scott, and Isiah Shoels' father Michael. I can't find the whole episode, but there are some clips up on YouTube.


According to Sean Graves Dylan stepped ON him as he entered the cafeteria. Sean had tried to play dead, but feeling the weight of Dylan's body caused him to flinch. Dylan's response? "Sorry dude."  Thats cold blooded man.


He also said he finds it therapeutic to go on YouTube and play a game he calls "where am I in the security footage". He said there are still little things about that day that he does t have answers for, but that hell keep looking for them. I thought it was kind of interesting that the large wealth of information on the massacre has helped someone cope.

Dylan indeed stepped on him, as he was wedged in between the cafeteria doors, but I've never heard that exchange of words.
As far as I know, he just played dead, which saved his life. I feel like if he were to say anything Dylan would of shot him like he did Lance Kirklin.

Thank you. I just went to look it up and watched it. Really really interesting stuff, as you said on Sean Graves and his coping method where he watches the security footage and look up information of the massacre. I always thought his whole cigar tribute to his friend danny is really bittersweet aswell.

Is this the clip?

Great post. I wish we could get Sean Graves here so we could ask him some questions about this. If he likes to research the case then maybe he would want to talk to us.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] yes babe. there're more clips on YT aswell where they specifically speak with Sean.

liquorvamp wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] yes babe. there're more clips on YT aswell where they specifically speak with Sean.

Thanks. I cannot watch it with sound at the moment so I will save it for later!

Could someone link all the clips here so we have them for archival purposes?

lasttrain wrote:

Could someone link all the clips here so we have them for archival purposes?

Yes

It was really cool to hear quite a few new coverages on this, especially from Sean. His expression and account of what Dylan said to him whilst playing dead, and the image of seeing Danny's dead body that still haunts him up till date. He's still so mad and sullen. Also, the interview with Isaiah's father. That was really heartbreaking, the interviewer broke down too aswell. and Craig, he's so grown, he's changed so much.

liquorvamp wrote:

It was really cool to hear quite a few new coverages on this, especially from Sean. His expression and account of what Dylan said to him whilst playing dead, and the image of seeing Danny's dead body that still haunts him up till date. He's still so mad and sullen. Also, the interview with Isaiah's father. That was really heartbreaking, the interviewer broke down too aswell. and Craig, he's so grown, he's changed so much.

I think I saw something in the news recently where Isaiah's father is very ill now or something to that effect. I'll have to see if I can find it again.

lasttrain wrote:

Great post.  I wish we could get Sean Graves here so we could ask him some questions about this.  If he likes to research the case then maybe he would want to talk to us.

Who knows? He may be lurking on here as a guest or something. It would be something if he could contribute to the forum!

slippy123 wrote:

Nirvana92 wrote:

Anyone catch "Crime Watch Daily" today? They did a special Columbine episode with interviews from Sean Graves, Craig Scott, and Isiah Shoels' father Michael. I can't find the whole episode, but there are some clips up on YouTube.


According to Sean Graves Dylan stepped ON him as he entered the cafeteria. Sean had tried to play dead, but feeling the weight of Dylan's body caused him to flinch. Dylan's response? "Sorry dude."  Thats cold blooded man.


He also said he finds it therapeutic to go on YouTube and play a game he calls "where am I in the security footage". He said there are still little things about that day that he does t have answers for, but that hell keep looking for them. I thought it was kind of interesting that the large wealth of information on the massacre has helped someone cope.

Dylan indeed stepped on him, as he was wedged in between the cafeteria doors, but I've never heard that exchange of words.
As far as I know, he just played dead, which saved his life. I feel like if he were to say anything Dylan would of shot him like he did Lance Kirklin.

This doesn't make any sense to me.I don't know why he wouldn't have been shot again at this point.I'm not saying he is deliberately lying;Maybe his memories have become confused over the years.

ThoughtBox wrote:

liquorvamp wrote:

It was really cool to hear quite a few new coverages on this, especially from Sean. His expression and account of what Dylan said to him whilst playing dead, and the image of seeing Danny's dead body that still haunts him up till date. He's still so mad and sullen. Also, the interview with Isaiah's father. That was really heartbreaking, the interviewer broke down too aswell. and Craig, he's so grown, he's changed so much.

I think I saw something in the news recently where Isaiah's father is very ill now or something to that effect. I'll have to see if I can find it again.

Actually its Kyle's father who is having the health issues. Mr. Valasquez is in urgent need of a kidney.

Thanks for posting those clips Lizpuff. I'm on mobile so I have trouble linking to YouTube. I'm glad everyone found it interesting. Its always good to hear new facts about the case, even if they are tiny and mostly insignificant.

PaintItBlack wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

Nirvana92 wrote:

Anyone catch "Crime Watch Daily" today? They did a special Columbine episode with interviews from Sean Graves, Craig Scott, and Isiah Shoels' father Michael. I can't find the whole episode, but there are some clips up on YouTube.


According to Sean Graves Dylan stepped ON him as he entered the cafeteria. Sean had tried to play dead, but feeling the weight of Dylan's body caused him to flinch. Dylan's response? "Sorry dude."  Thats cold blooded man.


He also said he finds it therapeutic to go on YouTube and play a game he calls "where am I in the security footage". He said there are still little things about that day that he does t have answers for, but that hell keep looking for them. I thought it was kind of interesting that the large wealth of information on the massacre has helped someone cope.

Dylan indeed stepped on him, as he was wedged in between the cafeteria doors, but I've never heard that exchange of words.
As far as I know, he just played dead, which saved his life. I feel like if he were to say anything Dylan would of shot him like he did Lance Kirklin.

This doesn't make any sense to me.I don't know why he wouldn't have been shot again at this point.I'm not saying he is deliberately lying;Maybe his memories have become confused over the years.

He didnt actually say anything to Dylan though. The flinch may not have registered as "alive and ok" in Dylan's mind. It could have been a death twitch for all he knew. Kirklin however did say something which alerted Dylan to the fact that he was still conscious. Plus smart ass Dylan may not have been able to help himself answering "sure ill help you" to Kirklins cries for help. Both responses are incredibly sadistic and IMO are more than enough evidence to invalidate the "Dylan wasnt into it" theories.

Man I can't believe even 17 years later there is still so much misinformation being spread. The whole coming up to Rachel Scott and having this conversation with her about God, and then saying "You believe in God, no go be with him". A teacher saying she heard them say 1,2,3 and then kill themselves. I feel like the Scott family knows that none of that altercation happened between the killers and Rachel, but they just keep it alive as it adds more of a "christian martyr" factor to her story.

Nirvana92 wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

Nirvana92 wrote:

Anyone catch "Crime Watch Daily" today? They did a special Columbine episode with interviews from Sean Graves, Craig Scott, and Isiah Shoels' father Michael. I can't find the whole episode, but there are some clips up on YouTube.


According to Sean Graves Dylan stepped ON him as he entered the cafeteria. Sean had tried to play dead, but feeling the weight of Dylan's body caused him to flinch. Dylan's response? "Sorry dude."  Thats cold blooded man.


He also said he finds it therapeutic to go on YouTube and play a game he calls "where am I in the security footage". He said there are still little things about that day that he does t have answers for, but that hell keep looking for them. I thought it was kind of interesting that the large wealth of information on the massacre has helped someone cope.

Dylan indeed stepped on him, as he was wedged in between the cafeteria doors, but I've never heard that exchange of words.
As far as I know, he just played dead, which saved his life. I feel like if he were to say anything Dylan would of shot him like he did Lance Kirklin.

This doesn't make any sense to me.I don't know why he wouldn't have been shot again at this point.I'm not saying he is deliberately lying;Maybe his memories have become confused over the years.

He didnt actually say anything to Dylan though. The flinch may not have registered as "alive and ok" in Dylan's mind. It could have been a death twitch for all he knew. Kirklin however did say something which alerted Dylan to the fact that he was still conscious. Plus smart ass Dylan may not have been able to help himself answering "sure ill help you" to Kirklins cries for help. Both responses are incredibly sadistic and IMO are more than enough evidence to invalidate the "Dylan wasnt into it" theories.

You could be right about what happened.It just strikes me as odd ,that's all.
As far as I know this is the first time he has ever shared this detail publicly.

PaintItBlack wrote:

Nirvana92 wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

Nirvana92 wrote:

Anyone catch "Crime Watch Daily" today? They did a special Columbine episode with interviews from Sean Graves, Craig Scott, and Isiah Shoels' father Michael. I can't find the whole episode, but there are some clips up on YouTube.


According to Sean Graves Dylan stepped ON him as he entered the cafeteria. Sean had tried to play dead, but feeling the weight of Dylan's body caused him to flinch. Dylan's response? "Sorry dude."  Thats cold blooded man.


He also said he finds it therapeutic to go on YouTube and play a game he calls "where am I in the security footage". He said there are still little things about that day that he does t have answers for, but that hell keep looking for them. I thought it was kind of interesting that the large wealth of information on the massacre has helped someone cope.

Dylan indeed stepped on him, as he was wedged in between the cafeteria doors, but I've never heard that exchange of words.
As far as I know, he just played dead, which saved his life. I feel like if he were to say anything Dylan would of shot him like he did Lance Kirklin.

This doesn't make any sense to me.I don't know why he wouldn't have been shot again at this point.I'm not saying he is deliberately lying;Maybe his memories have become confused over the years.

He didnt actually say anything to Dylan though. The flinch may not have registered as "alive and ok" in Dylan's mind. It could have been a death twitch for all he knew. Kirklin however did say something which alerted Dylan to the fact that he was still conscious. Plus smart ass Dylan may not have been able to help himself answering "sure ill help you" to Kirklins cries for help. Both responses are incredibly sadistic and IMO are more than enough evidence to invalidate the "Dylan wasnt into it" theories.

You could be right about what happened.It just strikes me as odd ,that's all.
As far as I know this is the first time he has ever shared this detail publicly.

You're all good man. Its a logical assumption to make that he'd shoot him again, or that Sean's memory of that day is hazy.

This is the first time I'd heard it too. As time goes on its probably easier for the victims to talk in detail. This little exchange may not seem like much, but your would be killer saying "sorry dude" is pretty horrifying.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] "This doesn't make any sense to me.I don't know why he wouldn't have been shot again at this point.I'm not saying he is deliberately lying;Maybe his memories have become confused over the years."
According to sean and what the interviewer asked, he said at that point he knew that Dylan knew he was alive. He was pissed off that Dylan exchanged those words to him when he stepped on him and Sean flinched. Hearing that I've asked myself too why Dylan had not finished Sean off, it's almost as if it's pointless Sean tried to play dead. At this point, I can only settle with the fact that Dylan had let him live or maybe in his mind, Sean was going to bleed to death or something.

I thought it's totally fascinating that Sean's way of coping was to ironically go into complete detail of what happened that day by watching the cafeteria footage over and over again, I completely understand the way his mind works; I guess like instead of being stressed out blocking everything out, he garnered up the courage to go through everything in great detail to come to terms with it, in a way facing the carnage.

Odd encounter, can't work out if its a cold thing to say purposefully and maliciously or the dissassociation was hitting him, what do you guys think?

I am wondering something.....totally off the wall I guess...
but after Sean was shot and people were trying to help him he just kept yelling "I can't move my legs I can't move my legs." So Dylan and Eric heard that. Do you think Dylan didn't finish Sean off because he thought he was paralyzed and maybe that would be a greater punishment than death?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I'm not sure of the timeline of Sean's account, but didn't his realization that he can't move his legs come in much much later? When he was going to be taken in by the paramedics? If he were yelling that Eric and Dylan would've been way long gone from his vicinity let alone to learn that he was paralyzed.

Nirvana92 wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

Nirvana92 wrote:

Anyone catch "Crime Watch Daily" today? They did a special Columbine episode with interviews from Sean Graves, Craig Scott, and Isiah Shoels' father Michael. I can't find the whole episode, but there are some clips up on YouTube.


According to Sean Graves Dylan stepped ON him as he entered the cafeteria. Sean had tried to play dead, but feeling the weight of Dylan's body caused him to flinch. Dylan's response? "Sorry dude."  Thats cold blooded man.


He also said he finds it therapeutic to go on YouTube and play a game he calls "where am I in the security footage". He said there are still little things about that day that he does t have answers for, but that hell keep looking for them. I thought it was kind of interesting that the large wealth of information on the massacre has helped someone cope.

Dylan indeed stepped on him, as he was wedged in between the cafeteria doors, but I've never heard that exchange of words.
As far as I know, he just played dead, which saved his life. I feel like if he were to say anything Dylan would of shot him like he did Lance Kirklin.

This doesn't make any sense to me.I don't know why he wouldn't have been shot again at this point.I'm not saying he is deliberately lying;Maybe his memories have become confused over the years.

He didnt actually say anything to Dylan though. The flinch may not have registered as "alive and ok" in Dylan's mind. It could have been a death twitch for all he knew. Kirklin however did say something which alerted Dylan to the fact that he was still conscious. Plus smart ass Dylan may not have been able to help himself answering "sure ill help you" to Kirklins cries for help. Both responses are incredibly sadistic and IMO are more than enough evidence to invalidate the "Dylan wasnt into it" theories.

Yes, it's Dylan's "Sure I'll help you" as well as Eric's smartass "Nice glasses" comment to Daniel Mauser are the two remarks which stick out to me so much and do not allow me to feel any sympathy for the killers.

liquorvamp wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I'm not sure of the timeline of Sean's account, but didn't his realization that he can't move his legs come in much much later? When he was going to be taken in by the paramedics? If he were yelling that Eric and Dylan would've been way long gone from his vicinity let alone to learn that he was paralyzed.

I am currently reading thru the 11k cafe witnesses. Apparently near the beginning of everything people noticed Sean was shot. A teacher went out to try to bring him in and Sean was yelling this to her and she looked over and saw Dylan and Eric with guns. There are other witnesses saying that Sean was saying this right after he got shot too.

Of course can't always trust witnesses but I think he was saying it right away.

ThoughtBox wrote:

Nirvana92 wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

Nirvana92 wrote:

Anyone catch "Crime Watch Daily" today? They did a special Columbine episode with interviews from Sean Graves, Craig Scott, and Isiah Shoels' father Michael. I can't find the whole episode, but there are some clips up on YouTube.


According to Sean Graves Dylan stepped ON him as he entered the cafeteria. Sean had tried to play dead, but feeling the weight of Dylan's body caused him to flinch. Dylan's response? "Sorry dude."  Thats cold blooded man.


He also said he finds it therapeutic to go on YouTube and play a game he calls "where am I in the security footage". He said there are still little things about that day that he does t have answers for, but that hell keep looking for them. I thought it was kind of interesting that the large wealth of information on the massacre has helped someone cope.

Dylan indeed stepped on him, as he was wedged in between the cafeteria doors, but I've never heard that exchange of words.
As far as I know, he just played dead, which saved his life. I feel like if he were to say anything Dylan would of shot him like he did Lance Kirklin.

This doesn't make any sense to me.I don't know why he wouldn't have been shot again at this point.I'm not saying he is deliberately lying;Maybe his memories have become confused over the years.

He didnt actually say anything to Dylan though. The flinch may not have registered as "alive and ok" in Dylan's mind. It could have been a death twitch for all he knew. Kirklin however did say something which alerted Dylan to the fact that he was still conscious. Plus smart ass Dylan may not have been able to help himself answering "sure ill help you" to Kirklins cries for help. Both responses are incredibly sadistic and IMO are more than enough evidence to invalidate the "Dylan wasnt into it" theories.

Yes, it's Dylan's "Sure I'll help you" as well as Eric's smartass "Nice glasses" comment to Daniel Mauser are the two remarks which stick out to me so much and do not allow me to feel any sympathy for the killers.

For me it is Isiah. How they treated that poor boy.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] hm I see. If that's the case, then Dylan realllly confuses me. I still can't understand why he spared some people or in this case, knew Sean was alive and leave him be. Yeah maybe he thought Sean being paralyzed would hurt more, idk.
But like you guys' discussion on the smartass remarks, it really brings us back to realize they were cold-blooded murderers.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I think that either he didn't realize Sean was alive or he thought he'd eventually bleed to death. Another possible scenario is that he just didn't care. We have to keep in mind that a lot of it was about " a psychological torture" (if you will). They didn't check each table in the library to make sure everybody gets shot. They wanted people to beg them for their life as they'd make fun of them and humiliate. Some were killed right after that ( Daniel Mauser) and some were not (Evan Todd). They clearly enjoyed "having people's lives in their hands" and being the one to decide who's coming out alive and who's not.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] that's what I thought too, that Dylan thought Sean would eventually bleed to death. so he was still being an ass making that remark to Sean after having heard him flinch when he stepped on him. but I agree, it's extremely evident that the boys caused psychological torment and trauma as that day was the only time they had power over everyone with a gun in their hands.

As far as the speculation about individuals or family reading through these. We do. Sometimes it helps. Sometimes it makes me ill.
Everyone works through things differently I suppose.

Does anyone think that if this exchange actually happened that Dylan saying "sorry dude" was just an automatic reaction and had no depth to it? I mean I've accidentally stepped on bugs before and said "sorry dude" automatically and then moved on...

Kiwik wrote:

Does anyone think that if this exchange actually happened that Dylan saying "sorry dude" was just an automatic reaction and had no depth to it? I mean I've accidentally stepped on bugs before and said "sorry dude" automatically and then moved on...

Well....sorry dude to a guy nearly bleeding to death on the floor whom he just shot. Automatic reaction? Does he not see what's happening to Sean?

Dylan was deliberately being an ass while out of it.

To me it just kinda shows how indifferent Dylan was to killing people. Like he didn't give a crap if he stepped on him and just automatically said it.

It's too bad Sean is still angry and aggravated about it.

Kiwik wrote:

Does anyone think that if this exchange actually happened that Dylan saying "sorry dude" was just an automatic reaction and had no depth to it? I mean I've accidentally stepped on bugs before and said "sorry dude" automatically and then moved on...

That was my first thought too... like maybe at that point he'd got inpatient and was not motivated (there's a load of evidence that points to that) all the adrenaline had gone etc etc and he was so fixated on dying that it was just an automatic reaction to say 'sorry dude'?

I really don't know how you react like you bumped into someone over stepping on a nearly-dying body.

Why are we giving Dylan the benefit of the doubt here? He killed people and he knew what he did.

Nah not giving Dylan the benefit at all, I took it as he didn't care that he stepped on a kid that had just been shot. Like he was so comfortable with it he automatically had that response as if he had stepped on an inanimate object, without really giving it a thought. I just didn't see any depth to it, Especially since his goal that day was to kill people then himself anyway. It just makes him look more cold to me.

I think between Dylan and Eric, Dylan was the colder of the two

Kiwik wrote:

Nah not giving Dylan the benefit at all, I took it as he didn't care that he stepped on a kid that had just been shot. Like he was so comfortable with it he automatically had that response as if he had stepped on an inanimate object, without really giving it a thought. I just didn't see any depth to it, Especially since his goal that day was to kill people then himself anyway. It just makes him look more cold to me.

I think between Dylan and Eric, Dylan was the colder of the two

Was this before or after Lance Kirklin asked for help and Dylan shot him in the jaw? I think this makes Dylan colder and Dylan knew he was going to die soon and wanted to kill and terrorize everyone and didn't care about anyone or anything.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

In his statement, Sean does not state that Eric/Dylan stepped on his back and said "sorry, dude".

Page 000209 (Interview on April 30 1999):

Sean [Graves] stated that he heard "more explosions in the Commons area" and then he heard the "swoosh of a huge fire ball".

Sean stated that the sprinklers came on because he remembers the "water coming down" at that time.

Sean stated that "the school was on fire and everybody started to run out and they were stepping on me, because they thought I was dead, I guess".


We know from the CCTV Cafeteria Video that the fireball happened at 11:46:10 AM. Sean Graves stated that people stepped on his back after that time. We know that Eric/Dylan were inside the cafeteria and nowhere near him at that time.

So, was it Eric/Dylan that stepped on his back and said sorry, dude? I am not so sure.

He told the reporter in this year's anniversary video about Columbine about this statement and said it was Dylan. The better question is whether he only recently remember it happening or he sort of made It up.

I Guess i get where you guys are coming from where he's so cold and nothing matters anymore so the sorry Dude was pretty candid. It sounds like something straight out of a movie.

Sean Graves, Lance Kirklin, Dan Rohrbough were all walking up the stairs together when they got shot.

Another reference that may have have never happened:

000234-000242: Lance Kirklin's Statements

The only thing Lance references is that he was looking up at the blue sky when he felt his face being jolted and felt pools of blood below his mouth.

Nothing about him saying "help me," and Dylan responding "sure, I'll help you" then firing.

I saw an interview with Lance Kirklin and in it he did say that he asked for help when he felt someone was close to him. He said the person ended up being "the gunman" that said "sure, ill help you" then shot him in the face. I don't remember which interview but it's pretty easy to find on YouTube.

sororityalpha wrote:

Sean Graves, Lance Kirklin, Dan Rohrbough were all walking up the stairs together when they got shot.

Another reference that may have have never happened:

000234-000242: Lance Kirklin's Statements

The only thing Lance references is that he was looking up at the blue sky when he felt his face being jolted and felt pools of blood below his mouth.

Nothing about him saying "help me," and Dylan responding "sure, I'll help you" then firing.

Is it a false memory?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Sororityalpha, I don't know how to reply directly so ill check in the FAQs how to do that.

You could very well be right about Kirklin though, it could be a false memory from what I read in the link you posted. Its possible that he heard it so many times that he started remembering it, as if it were fact. This has been known to happen, almost on the same lines as when someone lies so much they start to believe their own lies. I'm definitely not saying he is lying though, I'm simply giving an example.

Did Sean make that encounter up on the anniversary report? Just for shock value or something?

I haven't really thought about This before now, but why isn't Dylan's supposed comment to Lance (and even the "sorry dude" since it's been taken in different ways) held at the same level as Eric's supposed comments to Rachel?  None of them can be proved, and we all know the whole Eric/Rachel "God" conversation has multiple versions attached to it that questions the authenticity of it. If the exchange with Lance actually happened, it paints a very cruel picture of Dylan and also proves that he was pretty serious about what he was doing as opposed to the popular belief that he was being strung along by Eric.

I get that the Scott family has really pushed the belief that Rachel was martyred for her faith and that Cullenbine is one of the more popular versions of events (which works out on Dylan's favor), but I'm surprised this isn't mentioned more and people still hang onto the "Dylan was a depressed follower" theory.

This comment was a little on the rambling side so I hope I didn't confuse anyone!

I believe the Lance comment followed by shooting him after happened, but the "Sorry dude" is debatable. It might be true, but it took him years to remember it being said to him, as opposed to not bringing it up right after Columbine happened.