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 Things you've changed your mind about

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PostSubject: Things you've changed your mind about   Things you've changed your mind about Icon_minitimeMon Apr 25, 2016 11:40 pm

Over your days/ weeks/ months/ years researching Columbine, what are the main things you've changed your opinion on?

Did you once believe Eric and Dylan were vile creatures and now believe they had good souls?

Perhaps you thought there were more than two shooters?

Maybe you initially blamed the parents when you now blame the teachers?
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PostSubject: Re: Things you've changed your mind about   Things you've changed your mind about Icon_minitimeMon Apr 25, 2016 11:52 pm

I change my mind about Dylan. I always thought he just went with the flow but now I believe he was just as evil as Eric
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PostSubject: Re: Things you've changed your mind about   Things you've changed your mind about Icon_minitimeTue Apr 26, 2016 12:22 am

I've changed my mind about quite a few things especially now that I took a break from researching this and gained some perspective.

I have mostly been reading allot about psychopathy.

I now believe that if either one of the boys was a psychopath, than it was Dylan. I actually think it's very likely he was.

I now believe the shooting was originally Dylan's idea.

I think Eric built himself an alter ego, one who was strong and powerful I'm order to protect himself from his deep insecurities and his feeling of loneliness.

I think he wrote all the stuff about hating people and wanting to hurt people to take his power back. It's really simple when you think about it. Get them before they can get me.
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PostSubject: Re: Things you've changed your mind about   Things you've changed your mind about Icon_minitimeTue Apr 26, 2016 12:49 am

I don't think anyone is going to go from thinking Dylan and Eric were vile creatures to thinking they were Gods or vice versa, but...

I've changed my mind about Dylan. In my very early days of Columbine, I thought that the shooting was all Eric's idea and that Dylan just went along with it because he was depressed/suicidal. Basically, everything that Cullen was feeding us with his book. It wasn't until I started doing my own research that I came to the conclusion that Eric followed Dylan. That it was Dylan's idea and Eric just put it into motion. That Dylan was actually just lazy and the legacy fell upon Eric because he was the one who got it all together while Dylan was busy having a pity party and drawing hearts for all these random girls he wanted to spend forever with in the afterlife.

I've started to feel sorry for Eric over the years. I believe that Eric could have gone on. I believe he wanted to be liked, that he wanted to fit in and that he was extremely angry with his life because he always had to start at the bottom, never really had friends of his own. He felt like everyone hated him and he hated himself. The children he played with and who knew him before Colorado and before Dylan tell us of a completely different kid. They said things like he was always happy or smiling and that he was fun to be around. He was preppy and smart. That he was a good student and got good grades and that they couldn't even believe he was the same kid they knew.

Sadly, I think Dylan would have ended up committing suicide any way you look at it. But I at times feel bad for what Eric may have been. Ultimately though, he will just be remembered as a murderer, but I can't help but wonder what he could have been.

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PostSubject: Re: Things you've changed your mind about   Things you've changed your mind about Icon_minitimeTue Apr 26, 2016 1:00 am

I thought they were more than mere shooters, but that's solely because I researched Columbine more thoroughly than other shooting cases. Like some say, I humanized the boys, almost romanticizing their story. I would say the same for other killers I have looked into.
I really changed my mind thanks to the discussion on various forums, on the roles that Dylan and Eric played, which of the two was possibly the instigator and which of the two who could have been saved. The main look into their state of mind plays a huge role into my thoughts changing. That being said, I haven't and possibly could never settle on a reason why Columbine happened but in a way, I prefer it as so. Columbine being a huge grey area with unanswered mysteries is what makes it the case that it is. I really really want to know that moment inside of Eric and Dylan that finally snapped and they thought, 'You know what, I want do this, let's shoot up a school'.

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PostSubject: Re: Things you've changed your mind about   Things you've changed your mind about Icon_minitimeTue Apr 26, 2016 1:02 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] "That it was Dylan's idea and Eric just put it into motion. That Dylan was actually just lazy and the legacy fell upon Eric because he was the one who got it all together while Dylan was busy having a pity party and drawing hearts for all these random girls he wanted to spend forever with in the afterlife.

I've started to feel sorry for Eric over the years. I believe that Eric could have gone on. I believe he wanted to be liked, that he wanted to fit in and that he was extremely angry with his life because he always had to start at the bottom, never really had friends of his own. He felt like everyone hated him and he hated himself. The children he played with and who knew him before Colorado and before Dylan tell us of a completely different kid. They said things like he was always happy or smiling and that he was fun to be around. He was preppy and smart. That he was a good student and got good grades and that they couldn't even believe he was the same kid they knew.

Sadly, I think Dylan would have ended up committing suicide any way you look at it. But I at times feel bad for what Eric may have been. Ultimately though, he will just be remembered as a murderer, but I can't help but wonder what he could have been."


I agree with all of this very much. Eric really could have made it out of this.

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PostSubject: Re: Things you've changed your mind about   Things you've changed your mind about Icon_minitimeTue Apr 26, 2016 1:31 am

I think I did a complete 360 in terms of my understanding of Dylan. He had everyone fooled: parents, friends, teachers, even us Columbine researchers. It seems now, as [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] has suggested in the "Dylan's Journal" thread which has since been stickied, that the NBK idea was originated by him and that Eric was a "poor man's" substitute for the True Love with whom Dylan really wanted to go on his killing spree, highlighted by a final suicidal statement.

I wonder how much Dylan may have even manipulated Eric; I firmly believe he was the smarter of the two.

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PostSubject: Re: Things you've changed your mind about   Things you've changed your mind about Icon_minitimeTue Apr 26, 2016 1:56 am

Before I got into researching big time, I thought that Dylan was Eric's depressed lil follower. Now it is obvious that Dylan was as big a player in NBK as Eric - technically more so considering that the initial idea was his own, and that Eric was second choice of partner.

I was also once dead set on the idea that Eric was not a psychopath. In a way, I was siding with the opinions of people who I normally agreed with rather than thinking about it for myself. I now understand that the insane debate over Eric's possibly psychopathy is futile. We don't have enough evidence to diagnose either way. Post-mortem diagnosis would, in this case, be both innacurate and useless. Hence the never ending argument. I also don't see why people are arguing over Eric but not Dylan. Both were in it together.

I never really disliked either of them. But, I never got with the fandoming either. The more I research Columbine, the more it makes me feel happy and safe. When everyone I know is making me want to top myself, NBK is a sort of comfort blanket. I have my things that I do when I want to renounce my life, researching Columbine is one of them.

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PostSubject: Re: Things you've changed your mind about   Things you've changed your mind about Icon_minitimeTue Apr 26, 2016 8:51 am

I tend to change my mind a lot as I look into the case more and more and find out things that I had accepted as facts are actually false. There are a lot of false "facts" floating around and information about them being true is easier to find than the real information that proves them false. Such as the shouting 123 before the suicides.

It is def easier I think for people to feel bad for Dylan as he had this mushy love filled side that Eric did not leave evidence of behind. I don't know why it can be so hard for people to accept that perhaps Dylan was not as pitiful and a sad follower and that Eric just might have cared about his family. In any case I still have not read Cullen's book so I never really had his thoughts in my head at all

I will say though...the wikipedia article on Columbine is very inaccurate.

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PostSubject: Re: Things you've changed your mind about   Things you've changed your mind about Icon_minitimeTue Apr 26, 2016 9:34 am

Before I began researching Columbine, the first thing I read was Dave Cullen's book.  His book is inaccurate in so many ways, which skewed my view of everything.  I initially thought Eric was a manipulative psychopath who had talked Dylan into NBK.  

After reading some of the 11K, the boys' journals, interviews, watching videos of them, and researching everything I could find, I have completely changed my views.  I believe that if anyone was a manipulative psychopath, then it was Dylan.  I feel rather sorry for Eric and I believe that with meds and therapy there was hope for him.  I believe that Eric turned his self hatred into hatred for everyone in this world, hence the reason he is so contradictory and hypocritical in his journal. Everything he hated about himself, he projected onto the people in his school and the people he couldn't connect with.
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PostSubject: Re: Things you've changed your mind about   Things you've changed your mind about Icon_minitimeTue Apr 26, 2016 10:21 am

Initially I thought E&D were the scum of the earth , after opening my mind and viewing it objectively I've seen they were not . I don't condone their actions but better understand them now.
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PostSubject: Re: Things you've changed your mind about   Things you've changed your mind about Icon_minitimeTue Apr 26, 2016 2:15 pm

Freezingmoon wrote:
Before I began researching Columbine, the first thing I read was Dave Cullen's book.  His book is inaccurate in so many ways, which skewed my view of everything.  I initially thought Eric was a manipulative psychopath who had talked Dylan into NBK.  

After reading some of the 11K, the boys' journals, interviews, watching videos of them, and researching everything I could find, I have completely changed my views.  I believe that if anyone was a manipulative psychopath, then it was Dylan.  I feel rather sorry for Eric and I believe that with meds and therapy there was hope for him.  I believe that Eric turned his self hatred into hatred for everyone in this world, hence the reason he is so contradictory and hypocritical in his journal. Everything he hated about himself, he projected onto the people in his school and the people he couldn't connect with.

Same , I read the Cullen book before searching online for any info. At the start I was like "So these two had a ton of friends , went to parties, had good homes and ... they killed and killed themselves because...They had so many people in their life and life was good?". At first I believed it and got pretty pissed as people who have it all but then go all edgy really irk me. But in the back of my mind I felt things were missing and I finally got past all the myths like 2-3 years ago.

Though I gotta say, Dylan irks me to hell. He always gave me the impression that he had it well and he just HAD to find those little teeny tiny issues to cling on. I still feel that but I ALSO know that I basically know close to nothing about his life and the negative events that influenced him. Heck , I haven't let go of my kinder garden incidents either.

So I'm always 50/50. He annoys but also makes me feel bad for how miserable his life was to him. And honestly , in the other 50% of the thinking I do justify his need to "build up the rage". The other half says "oh, come on". It's good to be a 50-50 person ;)
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PostSubject: Re: Things you've changed your mind about   Things you've changed your mind about Icon_minitimeTue Apr 26, 2016 11:23 pm

Never read Cullen's book, to LPorter's credit.. I think the first reference I saw in detail on Cullen was on this site & I was privy to it's flaws before I could be influenced.

I'll eventually read it I think, I'm running out of fresh material to evaluate, be it good or bad.

Certainly won't pay for the book tho.
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PostSubject: Re: Things you've changed your mind about   Things you've changed your mind about Icon_minitimeWed Apr 27, 2016 12:18 am

I like many others believed Dylan had to be talking into it. For a while Eric was just evil to me, but then I read through the journals and his other writings where he says he hates people that do many, if not all, of the things he does. I guess that really opened up my eyes to the self-hatred he was dealing with.
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PostSubject: Re: Things you've changed your mind about   Things you've changed your mind about Icon_minitimeWed Apr 27, 2016 12:59 am

Definitely Dylan like others have said and for the same reasons too. Its actually surprising how many people that kid has duped. Eric is viewed as the monster mastermind, when in reality Dylan manipulated Eric the whole time. Feeding someone else's rage so they'll help force your hand in suicide is pretty fucked up.
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PostSubject: Re: Things you've changed your mind about   Things you've changed your mind about Icon_minitimeWed Apr 27, 2016 1:59 am

I'm with everyone else over the misconception that Dylan was the sad follower, and I never even read cullen's book. I used to assume that Dylan struggled more out of the two of them, but anymore I think Dylan's biggest problems were him just feeling dissatisfied with his life.

I now believe that Eric endured more suffering than Dylan. I think he had a lot of emotion and no outlets, and that he was encouraged to suppress his feelings at home (I get the impression That his parents are a little on the chilly side - not that they didn't love him, but maybe he needed more affection that what they were willing to give?). I look at how desperate and relentless he was to get a girlfriend, and deep down I think he was the one who really just wanted/needed love, but never would have admitted it.

I never read anything stating that he had anger issues his whole life, only that they seemed to show up in his teen years. So I wonder if he conditioned himself react with anger When he got upset since sadness and crying aren't considered as "masculine" traits...
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PostSubject: Re: Things you've changed your mind about   Things you've changed your mind about Icon_minitimeSat May 14, 2016 9:34 pm

The more I read about Eric and Dylan, the less empathy I feel for them. I know there's really a multitude of reasons why Columbine happened, but I feel that the main one was their mental issues. Of course I empathize with anyone who has mental issues, but ultimately, I don't buy into the nonsense about them being bullied to the point of wanting to kill.  I am sure they did endure some bullying.....like almost every other high student does at some point.....but I don't believe that was a driving factor in all of this. They weren't such outcasts that they had no friends whatsoever. They really don't fit the typical school shooter profile. They had more friends than I did in high school.  They endured less bullying than I did.  But I never had the desire to kill anyone.
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PostSubject: Re: Things you've changed your mind about   Things you've changed your mind about Icon_minitimeSat May 14, 2016 10:40 pm

Freezingmoon wrote:
The more I read about Eric and Dylan, the less empathy I feel for them. I know there's really a multitude of reasons why Columbine happened, but I feel that the main one was their mental issues. Of course I empathize with anyone who has mental issues, but ultimately, I don't buy into the nonsense about them being bullied to the point of wanting to kill.  I am sure they did endure some bullying.....like almost every other high student does at some point.....but I don't believe that was a driving factor in all of this. They weren't such outcasts that they had no friends whatsoever. They really don't fit the typical school shooter profile. They had more friends than I did in high school.  They endured less bullying than I did.  But I never had the desire to kill anyone.

Thank you! That's exactly how I feel. To be honest, the first time I started researching Columbine in depth when I was 16, I was actually a bit indifferent to them. Hell, I actually discovered KMFDM because of it and to this day, I still listen to their music and enjoy it. That being said, I always knew that what Eric and Dylan did was wrong since they day it occurred, but the older I've grown and the more research I've done has made me realise that I actually despise them for what they did and all the misinformation trying to paint Eric and Dylan in a purely sympathetic light that circulates the net disgusts me.

After reading the 11k and reading all the witness accounts in such excruciating detail and imagining myself in their victims' shoes, I find it incredibly hard to have any sympathy for Eric or Dylan. Not that they'd need it, anyway, since there's already a plethora of people out there who are ready to jump to their defence, or worse yet, support their actions.

After seeing all the pain they've subjected their victim's families and their own families to, again, I find it really hard to have sympathy for them. After watching footage of them shooting trees and objects at Rampart Range and actually really thinking to myself "holy shit, they fired those powerful weapons in an enclosed space just a few feet away into people's bodies", I find it immensely difficult to have sympathy for them. After listening to a clip of Patti Nielson's 911 call where you can hear shots being relentlessly fired in the library near table 2 (killing Lauren Townsend) and then hear Valeen Schnurr hysterically scream in agony and horror after being shot, again that makes it really hard to feel sorry them.

After growing up and reviewing Eric and Dylan's writings again and realising they were both privileged, self-entitled, hateful little bastards who shit on everyone close to them, again, it's hard to have sympathy for them after what they did, considering so many other people have been treated far worse than them yet they never killed innocent people (I myself was bullied in my early years of school and dealt with depression for years that lasted into my early 20s).

After seeing all the edgelords on youtube/tumblr commenting about how Eric and Dylan did this because it was [insert something here other than "Eric and Dylan"]'s fault, it just makes me hate Eric and Dylan more, because so many of their apologists are dense Bones-loving teenagers who seem to have not done any proper research about the case outside of tumblr. "Eric is daddy", "Sunshine boy is bae". How can we take these people seriously? And then you have the people who spew ignorant stuff like: "Fuck the victims, Eric and Dylan did this because they were bullied, they were just fighting back!". Eric and Dylan bullied people themselves. They didn't even know most of the people the shot at. Had any of us been in that library at the time, any one of us could have got shot. But their apologists don't seem to think of it that way.

Their apologists always have the most screwed up logic, like user Squid (who has thankfully been banned) who denounced Adam Lanza for killing 6 year olds, but said that Eric and Dylan killing teens they didn't even know was justifiable and honourable. How does that even make sense?! All these idiot followers of theirs just make me loathe Eric and Dylan even more, because if those are the type of people they have defending them, then that alone speaks volumes, let alone my own thoughts on what they've done based on facts of the case.
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PostSubject: Re: Things you've changed your mind about   Things you've changed your mind about Icon_minitimeSat May 14, 2016 10:42 pm

Different people react in different ways.Why does one person in a situation commit suicide while another person out there or many people out there in the exact same situation do not?
E&D had went over the edge by the time 4/20 happened.They needed help desperately.They were unwell and that affected their perception of everything.

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PostSubject: Re: Things you've changed your mind about   Things you've changed your mind about Icon_minitimeSat May 14, 2016 10:52 pm

PaintItBlack wrote:
Different people react in different ways.Why does one person in a situation commit suicide while another person out there or many people out there in the exact same situation do not?
E&D had went over the edge by the time 4/20 happened.They needed help desperately.They were unwell and that affected their perception of everything.

You could say that about violent child abusers, too:

"Oh, they couldn't cope with parenthood, they needed help"

You could say that about paedophiles as well:

"This child-rapist was sick, they needed help and couldn't control their actions"

Sorry, but I am not going to have any sympathy for people who do disgusting things or excuse their actions.
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PostSubject: Re: Things you've changed your mind about   Things you've changed your mind about Icon_minitimeSat May 14, 2016 10:59 pm

I don't expect you to have any sympathy.I would think there was anything I could ever say to make you have anything sympathy for E&D.I am sure you will always feel that way.
I do however have sympathy for them and a lot of other people whom I guess many people don't and I am happy I do.

I don't feel that a person can really be too compassionate or have too much compassion.~shrugs~

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PostSubject: Re: Things you've changed your mind about   Things you've changed your mind about Icon_minitimeSat May 14, 2016 11:07 pm

I'm not making any judgment on the level of your compassion btw.I don't know enough about you to even begin to measure such a thing.I guess we are just compassionate in different ways.

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PostSubject: Re: Things you've changed your mind about   Things you've changed your mind about Icon_minitimeSat May 14, 2016 11:33 pm

PaintItBlack wrote:
I'm not making any judgment on the level of your compassion btw.I don't know enough about you to even begin to measure such a thing.I guess we are just compassionate in different ways.

Yeah, I have compassion for the actual victims of Columbine, not the perpetrators. That's entirely reasonable given what Eric and Dylan ultimately chose to do. Just wondering, though, would you have compassion for a paedophile who repeatedly raped and tortured a child before brutally murdering them? I'd like to know where you draw the line or if you even have one.
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PostSubject: Re: Things you've changed your mind about   Things you've changed your mind about Icon_minitimeSat May 14, 2016 11:44 pm

bubbles wrote:
PaintItBlack wrote:
I'm not making any judgment on the level of your compassion btw.I don't know enough about you to even begin to measure such a thing.I guess we are just compassionate in different ways.

Yeah, I have compassion for the actual victims of Columbine, not the perpetrators. That's entirely reasonable given what Eric and Dylan ultimately chose to do. Just wondering, though, would you have compassion for a paedophile who repeatedly raped and tortured a child before brutally murdering them? I'd like to know where you draw the line or if you even have one.


If the pedophile had been raped as a child themselves then yes I would feel some compassion.
That kind of behavior often comes from some deep trauma in the individuals past.
No, it doesn't excuse the horrible action but the abused often grow up to be abusers although there are exceptions to every rule.
I'm not sure by what you mean if I even have a line. I have strict moral standards that I live by. They just may not be the same as yours or maybe the majority of folks but they are there and very important to me.

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PostSubject: Re: Things you've changed your mind about   Things you've changed your mind about Icon_minitimeSun May 15, 2016 12:08 am

PaintItBlack wrote:
bubbles wrote:
PaintItBlack wrote:
I'm not making any judgment on the level of your compassion btw.I don't know enough about you to even begin to measure such a thing.I guess we are just compassionate in different ways.

Yeah, I have compassion for the actual victims of Columbine, not the perpetrators. That's entirely reasonable given what Eric and Dylan ultimately chose to do. Just wondering, though, would you have compassion for a paedophile who repeatedly raped and tortured a child before brutally murdering them? I'd like to know where you draw the line or if you even have one.


If the pedophile had been raped as a child themselves then yes I would feel some compassion.
That kind of behavior often comes from some deep trauma in the individuals past.
No, it doesn't excuse the horrible action but the abused often grow up to be abusers although there are exceptions to every rule.
I'm not sure by what you mean if I even have a line. I have strict moral standards that I live by. They just may not be the same as yours or maybe the majority of folks but they are there and very important to me.

It just seems like if you would sympathize with Dylan and Eric and still see them as victims even after all they've done, then you would probably sympathize with virtually anyone, regardless of what they've done. As I've mentioned before, I don't condone any mistreatment/possible bullying Eric or Dylan may have been subjected to in high school, but we need to keep in mind that there were also reports that they bullied and mistreated people, too. I think a lot of their anger didn't actually stem from bullying, but more from their own inferiority complexes, hence why they targeted people indiscriminately for the most part on their spree (Isaiah possibly being the one exception due to his skin color that attracted their attention).

Not everyone is going to be the super popular athlete that gets the hot cheerleaders or whatever, most of us in high school either didn't care or accepted it without going on a mass-shooting spree because we were sick of being low on the totem pole. People are too quick to pull the "bullying card". Eric and Dylan came from privileged, loving homes and actually had friends. Eric even at least got to go on a few dates, more than what we can say for lonely kids out there. There are people in this world who lead far more miserable lives in high school and didn't even bully/intimidate people like Eric and Dylan did, yet you don't see them killing innocent people. Those kids who went through hell without taking their anger out of innocent people are the ones deserving of sympathy and praise, not some snotty suburban boys who threw their toys out of the cot because they hated humanity and wanted to take as many people with them as possible to the grave.
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PostSubject: Re: Things you've changed your mind about   Things you've changed your mind about Icon_minitimeSun May 15, 2016 12:28 am

bubbles wrote:
PaintItBlack wrote:
bubbles wrote:
PaintItBlack wrote:
I'm not making any judgment on the level of your compassion btw.I don't know enough about you to even begin to measure such a thing.I guess we are just compassionate in different ways.

Yeah, I have compassion for the actual victims of Columbine, not the perpetrators. That's entirely reasonable given what Eric and Dylan ultimately chose to do. Just wondering, though, would you have compassion for a paedophile who repeatedly raped and tortured a child before brutally murdering them? I'd like to know where you draw the line or if you even have one.


If the pedophile had been raped as a child themselves then yes I would feel some compassion.
That kind of behavior often comes from some deep trauma in the individuals past.
No, it doesn't excuse the horrible action but the abused often grow up to be abusers although there are exceptions to every rule.
I'm not sure by what you mean if I even have a line. I have strict moral standards that I live by. They just may not be the same as yours or maybe the majority of folks but they are there and very important to me.

It just seems like if you would sympathize with Dylan and Eric and still see them as victims even after all they've done, then you would probably sympathize with virtually anyone, regardless of what they've done. As I've mentioned before, I don't condone any mistreatment/possible bullying Eric or Dylan may have been subjected to in high school, but we need to keep in mind that there were also reports that they bullied and mistreated people, too. I think a lot of their anger didn't actually stem from bullying, but more from their own inferiority complexes, hence why they targeted people indiscriminately for the most part on their spree (Isaiah possibly being the one exception due to his skin color that attracted their attention).

Not everyone is going to be the super popular athlete that gets the hot cheerleaders or whatever, most of us in high school either didn't care or accepted it without going on a mass-shooting spree because we were sick of being low on the totem pole. People are too quick to pull the "bullying card". Eric and Dylan came from privileged, loving homes and actually had friends. Eric even at least got to go on a few dates, more than what we can say for lonely kids out there. There are people in this world who lead far more miserable lives in high school and didn't even bully/intimidate people like Eric and Dylan did, yet you don't see them killing innocent people. Those kids who went through hell without taking their anger out of innocent people are the ones deserving of sympathy and praise, not some snotty suburban boys who threw their toys out of the cot because they hated humanity and wanted to take as many people with them as possible to the grave.


All that is your beliefs or belief system.Obviously,I see it very differently.
I might be able to sympathize with most people in the sense of feeling sympathetic to some aspect of who they are or an event in their past or a mental illness they have or their ultimate fate.
You mentioned pedophiles in your earlier post. For an example, I don't think anyone chooses to become a pedophile on purpose.From what I understand its a mental disorder with no cure and not many effective treatments.
I could feel sorry for them for being inflicted with such a disorder that drives them to do such vile things.
You obviously see this as a bad thing and call it being a bleeding heart but I see it as positive.
I can't really control who or what I naturally have a sympathetic reaction to but such compassion and understanding is also a very,very important tenant of my religious beliefs.My natural compassion and my religion just happens to go hand in hand but my religion makes me try to live out my compassion and understanding even more.

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PostSubject: Re: Things you've changed your mind about   Things you've changed your mind about Icon_minitimeSun May 15, 2016 12:46 am

Fair enough, we all have different views. I'm certainly not a religious person so I personally don't feel the need to have compassion for every single person who has done unimaginably cruel things, but that's just me. I get sick and tired of Eric and Dylan sympathizers but if people view them as victims of their own actions, that's up to them, so long as they don't gloss over the pre-Columbine facts that paint Eric and Dylan in a less than flattering light. That being said, I have no tolerance for those who try and justify their actions (not referring to you specifically, but others).
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PostSubject: Re: Things you've changed your mind about   Things you've changed your mind about Icon_minitimeSun May 15, 2016 12:48 am

A combination of factors led to this tragedy but deep down I just think Eric wanted infamy and Dylan just wanted to die.

I also think everybody who hung around them knew this was going to happen but just didn't think they would actually do it.
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PostSubject: Re: Things you've changed your mind about   Things you've changed your mind about Icon_minitimeSun May 15, 2016 1:46 am

@SaneOne hmm.. do you really think so? I mean, if you were around friends who kept openly saying they wanted to kill people cause they hate the school what are the chances of it actually being true?
It's so tough to say, the boys let many red flags out but not everyone or almost no one took it seriously.
In another sense for example, it infuriates me everytime in an interview Sue Klebold gets asked how could she have not seen the signs or saw it coming. I mean no shit, it's easy to ask that after the massacre has happened but also, Dylan did everything he could to be as normal as possible, never let any of the arsenal/weapons to be found, went about his days as usual and went to prom and was polite to mom and etc. When you know you're going to die it's almost easy to dead inside and just go about your days.

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PostSubject: Re: Things you've changed your mind about   Things you've changed your mind about Icon_minitimeTue May 24, 2016 4:39 pm

I change my mind almost daily. I think i have something figured out then boom! Ill read something in the 11k or on the forum that sets me back to square one. Especially as far as e&d are concerned. At first like most people i thought dylan was the depressed follower and that eric was purely evil. No i never read cullens book. I came into this having no knowledge of columbine other than knowing that it happened. It didnt take long to see that dylan was not what i first thought. .... Oh yeah. What have i changed my mind about? One day ill think the cops were terrible and wonder how they live with themselves.. Then ill read the reports and i see that most of them were terribly traumatized by the experience. I go from anger at them to deep sympathy. Same with e&d. I see them as boys who were foolish and feel deep sadness for them. Then i remember what they did and they are no longer boys worthy of sympathy but utter monsters who i hope are burning in hell. I can only scratch the surface of the contradictory things i feel. I go from one end of the spectrum to the other... Its a wild ride for sure.

One thing that doesnt change is my feelings for the victims, their families and e&d's families.
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PostSubject: Re: Things you've changed your mind about   Things you've changed your mind about Icon_minitimeTue May 24, 2016 8:59 pm

rockiemontana wrote:
I change my mind almost daily. I think i have something figured out then boom! Ill read something in the 11k or on the forum that sets me back to square one.  Especially as far as e&d are concerned. At first like most people i thought dylan was the depressed follower and that eric was purely evil. No i never read cullens book.  I came into this having no knowledge of columbine other than knowing that it happened.  It didnt take long to see that dylan was not what i first thought. .... Oh yeah. What have i changed my mind about?  One day ill think the cops were terrible and wonder how they live with themselves.. Then ill read the reports and i see that most of them were terribly traumatized by the experience. I go from anger at them to deep sympathy.  Same with e&d. I see them as boys who were foolish and feel deep sadness for them. Then i remember what they did and they are no longer boys worthy of sympathy but utter monsters who i hope are burning in hell.  I can only scratch the surface of the contradictory things i feel.  I go from one end of the spectrum to the other... Its a wild ride for sure.

One thing that doesnt change is my feelings for the victims, their families and e&d's families.

RockieMontana,You don't actually wish that somebody would burn in Hell ?You are being symbolic right?

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PostSubject: Re: Things you've changed your mind about   Things you've changed your mind about Icon_minitimeTue May 24, 2016 9:25 pm

Yes PaintItBlack i was being symbolic. I used that phrase simply for lack of anything better. No offense intended. Its funny because as i wrote those words i fleetingly thought i might hear from you about it...
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PostSubject: Re: Things you've changed your mind about   Things you've changed your mind about Icon_minitimeTue May 24, 2016 9:41 pm

rockiemontana wrote:
Yes PaintItBlack i was being symbolic. I used that phrase simply for lack of anything better. No offense intended.  Its funny because as i wrote those words i fleetingly thought i might hear from you about it...  


I just wanted to understand if that's what you really meant.I guess it's because I've got a good picture of how horrible it is from the Bible and I always wonder if people knew/understood how horrific it is if they would still wish that?That's all.

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PostSubject: Re: Things you've changed your mind about   Things you've changed your mind about Icon_minitimeTue May 24, 2016 10:16 pm

I was trying to express the extreme range of emotions ive experienced since i started learning about columbine. "Burning in hell" represents the worst of the worst. I grew up in a catholic household so i too know the vision of hell. (What i believe however is for another thread. ) again no offense intended. I used those ill words for descriptive purposes. Still friends right?
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PostSubject: Re: Things you've changed your mind about   Things you've changed your mind about Icon_minitimeTue May 24, 2016 11:23 pm

rockiemontana wrote:
I was trying to express the extreme range of emotions ive experienced since i started learning about columbine.  "Burning in hell" represents the worst of the worst.  I grew up in a catholic household so i too know the vision of hell. (What i believe however is for another thread. ) again no offense intended.  I used those ill words for descriptive purposes.  Still friends right?

Oh, I wasn't offended.Of course!

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