Court proceedings and trial

If for some reason Eric and Dylan were apprehended by law enforcers before they could shoot themselves, how would they be tried and sentenced. In Eric's case, since he was legal I'm pretty sure life without parole or the death sentence. Would Dylan also face the same sentences if convicted? Dylan was still 17 at the time but it could be possible for him to be tried as an adult. What if the families filed an insanity plea for their sons?

Death penalty would be off the table since Colorado is considered a non-capital punishment state. I think it would come down to the boys journals and video tapes. E and D were clearly weren't insane since they planned NBK for a year before it happened. Eric's journal itself would have been quite damning. His talk of blowing up Denver and raping his female classmates would have been the cherry on top. Dylan might have been able to get some kind reduction if he really was as delusional as his journals make him out to be. Maybe he would have gotten the mental help he needed? Either way they'd have been locked up for a long time and they'd most likely both get life, possibly without the possibility of parole.

They both would have gotten the death penalty under the federal statues.
I'm glad for all involved a trial didn't happen.
It would have been an absolute circus.

Nirvana,this is a point of dispute but I really don't think Eric was talking about wanting to actually rape anybody.I think he just meant rough sex.
He talked about wanting to do certain acts to the girls that rapists aren't likely to do.
Anyone who has read the entry will know what I mean without me having to say it directly.
I guess you disagree which is cool.This is my honest belief on what he was speaking of.

Oh I'm aware that it was all a fantasy, but after pulling NBK a jury would have been more likely to take it literally. Its kind of like that cop with the cannibal fetish who was arrested a few years back. He just barely managed to beat the charges against him, and he hadn't helped massacre 13 people at a highschool. Eric's journal would have been a huge nail in his coffin had he gone to trial.

I'm not sure on the death penalty though. Colorado hasn't done an execution since '97 and as of today they're considered a defacto non-capital punishment state. Of course Columbine was a major crime so its not impossible that they would have executed them. I still think life without parole would be the most likely outcome.

Thank you paintitblack. I agree with you. Eric rant about rape was really just sexual frustration. I have wanted to bring up that point for a long time but couldnt think of a delicate way to put it.

Nirvana92 wrote:

Oh I'm aware that it was all a fantasy, but after pulling NBK a jury would have been more likely to take it literally. Its kind of like that cop with the cannibal fetish who was arrested a few years back. He just barely managed to beat the charges against him, and he hadn't helped massacre 13 people at a highschool. Eric's journal would have been a huge nail in his coffin had he gone to trial.

I'm not sure on the death penalty though. Colorado hasn't done an execution since '97 and as of today they're considered a defacto non-capital punishment state. Of course Columbine was a major crime so its not impossible that they would have executed them. I still think life without parole would be the most likely outcome.

Good point Nirvana.I agree.

A good example would be James Eagan Holmes. He was found guilty yet he escaped death because the jury failed to agree on the death penalty.

I feel like the jury might love them and save them.

Here's a thought. What if we were juries? Or the tumblr comm?

Lol... Liquorvamp did you bump your head? (I say that with a smile)..

rockiemontana wrote:

Lol... Liquorvamp did you bump your head? (I say that with a smile)..

Hahah lol no! I mean it. Majority of columbiners empathise the boys and find them to be the cookie-cutter, cute pitiful teenage white guys and if they were to face a jury, they might actually escape a death penalty. Bring this up to the tumblr community and they would save their asses so fast you haven't blinked.

and btw I live my days with a permanent head damage cause i'm blabbering :S

liquorvamp wrote:

I feel like the jury might love them and save them.

Here's a thought. What if we were juries? Or the tumblr comm?

That's actually very funny.

aquillina wrote:

That's actually very funny. LOL

lol to be honest I was sleepy when I wrote that I didn't even bother to make it sound formal lol

If it was up to me I'd have given Eric the death penalty and given Dylan a life sentence.

Draw_It_White wrote:

If it was up to me I'd have given Eric the death penalty and given Dylan a life sentence.

A life sentence seems like a great punishment for Dylan.

Lizpuff wrote:

Draw_It_White wrote:

If it was up to me I'd have given Eric the death penalty and given Dylan a life sentence.

A life sentence seems like a great punishment for Dylan.  

Exactly. I think Eric would have thrived on the first few years if they kept him alive while people wrote books, wanted interviews, girls getting moist over him etc so I would have liked to deprive him of that (even though he would likely have been on death row years).

Dylan would have been mortified with his life sentence. That would please me greatly.

Draw_It_White wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

Draw_It_White wrote:

If it was up to me I'd have given Eric the death penalty and given Dylan a life sentence.

A life sentence seems like a great punishment for Dylan.  

Exactly. I think Eric would have thrived on the first few years if they kept him alive while people wrote books, wanted interviews, girls getting moist over him etc so I would have liked to deprive him of that (even though he would likely have been on death row years).

Dylan would have been mortified with his life sentence. That would please me greatly.

yea when you first said death for Eric I was like hmmm IDK...but with your explanation it makes complete sense!

I think I'd have voted to sentence Dylan to a forensic mental health center. Eric, I'm not so sure about. Probably life because I don't support the death penalty.

lilypadlane wrote:

I think I'd have voted to sentence Dylan to a forensic mental health center. Eric, I'm not so sure about. Probably life because I don't support the death penalty.

I'm for sure Eric would receive the death penalty, unless his family pleaded otherwise. Dylan on the other hand, if Tom and Sue pleaded his case severely he would either be sent to a mental asylum or life imprisonment without parole.

aquillina wrote:

lilypadlane wrote:

I think I'd have voted to sentence Dylan to a forensic mental health center. Eric, I'm not so sure about. Probably life because I don't support the death penalty.

I'm for sure Eric would receive the death penalty, unless his family pleaded otherwise. Dylan on the other hand, if Tom and Sue pleaded his case severely he would either be sent to a mental asylum or life imprisonment without parole.

Again, I'm no expert but I don't think there's a chance in hell they'd have sent Dylan to a mental home.

I'm not sure about Colorado, meaning I'm too lazy to look , but a lot of states allow a 15-16 year old to be tried as an adult and thus face the same consequences, including the death penalty where allowed.

Can you imagine being the attorney who had to try to defend those two? They left behind NO reasonable (or even unreasonable) doubt that they premeditated and carried out the murder in cold blood of 13 people. As well as the attempted murder of countless others. There was nothing to defend. I dont think the devil himself could have defended them. Ill bet the jury would impose the maximum punishment that the law allowed. Including death. Ill also bet they wouldnt have deliberated long either.

I feel sympathy and sadness for eric and dylan. Its tragic that they didnt get help for their issues. Its tragic because i do believe they would have grown to be productive members of society. Heck even dylan may have found happiness. But it is what it is... No matter how tragic they are or how clean cut popular suburban middle class white guys who are pitiful and cute from good families... Did i mention cute?? Lol. At the end of the day they still committed this heinous act that destroyed so many peoples lives. That cannot be ignored.

Okay, I actually researched this, pertaining to the fact that Dylan was 17. According to Colorado law, minors between the ages of 14-17 can charged and tried the same as an adult. Had they lived, I would almost guarantee he would be charged as an adult.

rockiemontana wrote:

Can you imagine being the attorney who had to try to defend those two?  They left behind NO reasonable (or even unreasonable) doubt that they premeditated and carried out the murder in cold blood of 13 people. As well as the attempted murder of countless others.  There was nothing to defend. I dont think the devil himself could have defended them. Ill bet the jury would impose the maximum punishment that the law allowed. Including death. Ill also bet they wouldnt have deliberated long either.

I feel sympathy and sadness for eric and dylan. Its tragic that they didnt get help for their issues. Its tragic because i do believe they would have grown to be productive members of society. Heck even dylan may have found happiness.  But it is what it is... No matter how tragic they are or how clean cut popular suburban middle class white guys who are pitiful and cute from good families... Did i mention cute?? Lol. At the end of the day they still committed this heinous act that destroyed so many peoples lives.  That cannot be ignored.

Well said Rockie. "Did I mention cute" Of course they were cute.

How come Eric would get death and Dylan would get life? What separates the two from their punishment, realistically speaking? I do agree that life is perfect for Dylan. Sorry bud. But if the two were taken alive it's crucial their punishment has to be right.

Us playing jury has been quite a fun read though, hahah.

liquorvamp wrote:

Us playing jury has been quite a fun read though, hahah.

Well then we should keep doing it. hahahahahah

liquorvamp wrote:

How come Eric would get death and Dylan would get life? What separates the two from their punishment, realistically speaking? I do agree that life is perfect for Dylan. Sorry bud. But if the two were taken alive it's crucial their punishment has to be right.

Ya know I never really thought of that. You make a good point. Probably because Dylan was suicidal and Eric was just a plain psychopath. Or so that's what the public believe make him to be.

I wonder, had they been captured alive and gone to trial, regardless of the outcome, how they would feel about their actions today as grown men in their 30's?

I think everyone does stupid things in their teens, and with age, you realize how stupid, dangerous, etc. you were.

I wonder if they would be remorseful or would they still think they had done the right thing? I wonder, if at trial, they would have pulled a T.J. Lane and been a deplorable dickhead to victims' families? I could maybe see Eric doing this, but not so much Dylan.

I'd go the other way myself. I could see Dylan not really giving a fuck in court.

Eric seemed to think he could get himself out of anything. I believe he actually would attempt to talk himself out of trouble for the massacre!

Tomb wrote:

I wonder, had they been captured alive and gone to trial, regardless of the outcome, how they would feel about their actions today as grown men in their 30's?

I think everyone does stupid things in their teens, and with age, you realize how stupid, dangerous, etc. you were.

I wonder if they would be remorseful or would they still think they had done the right thing? I wonder, if at trial, they would have pulled a T.J. Lane and been a deplorable dickhead to victims' families? I could maybe see Eric doing this, but not so much Dylan.

I am not sure. I do not agree with the prison system as is. I think it makes criminals worse. I think it would depend on how they were treated in jail.

Sure they would have matured, but what if they were treated deplorably in jail? Would they be even more bitter? Would Dylan commit suicide just to get out of there? Maybe they would be remorseful at the end of their lives.....I have no idea and it is an interesting thing to think about

Would an insanity plea have worked in Dylan's case? Could Eric have also plead mentally ill?

aquillina wrote:

Would an insanity plea have worked in Dylan's case? Could Eric have also plead mentally ill?

Insanity is very hard to prove. I think his actions over the previous year would stand against him. He was sane enough to lead a normal life...go to school, work, hang out with friends and family...and all the while plotting.

Do you mean if they had survived the shooting?

I think it depends on how good advocates they would have had. A really good defense would surely have proved to the judge that their mental state was so bad that they cannot hold the responsibility for their actions.

But they had already decided to die, anyway. After the shootings, they would not have any reasons to live, in my humble opinion.
This may be off topic, but I think NBK might have been an extra motivation for them, to be absolutely determined to die. Earlier, they could have thought that they have some other chances - but, in a morbid way, NBK could have pushed them in this direction: "die, die, DIE, you too!"
It can happen that I am just in the usual over-analyzing modus, but I see that both of them had problems with dealing with shame. Dylan had already felt himself doomed for a lifetime, after the arrest and trial, and considered himself as a criminal. Maybe this is why he thought there were no other chances for him, and so "why not commit something even worse?"
I don't know about Eric... maybe he really wanted to live, but did not want to be a coward. Really have no idea.
Sorry for the off.

Lizpuff wrote:

Insanity is very hard to prove.  I think his actions over the previous year would stand against him.  He was sane enough to lead a normal life...go to school, work, hang out with friends and family...and all the while plotting.

Yes it is true... and this is why I think it was "better" that they did not survive the shootings. I would rather not think about how their trial would have been.

yeah insanity wouldn't cut it at all.

ultraviolencelv wrote:

yeah insanity wouldn't cut it at all.

I guess I can't argue with that.

Solitary confinement (and prison in general) drives people insane and makes them anti-social.  They become so detached from society that it is hard for them to come to grips with their own crimes. Victim impact statements aside, we don't have any procedure for making people face up to what they did.

Come to think of it, I don't think prison would have been any safer for Eric and Dylan. Most likely they would have become easy targets for other inmates which can be very deadly. Examples are Dylann Roof, James Eagan Holmes, and Jeffrey Dahmer.

You are right aquillina. Though I have thought that It would be pretty interesting to see how it'd turn out had they been alive and taken in; from how it would for them to be separated and if they still tried to keep in contact, how they would be eaten up so fast in prison, how they would be when they're older, kinda like that shooter Kip Kinkel, whose progress kept being accounted for through letters and pictures of him as he got older.

I can never imagine Dylan or Eric getting prison raped.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]: neither do I.

Otherwise, I am sure they had good reasons to be so determined to die. Surviving school was difficult enough for them and brewed enough anger in them to go NBK. I would rather not picture how much anger would have accumulated in them in jail. I assume it would have been worse than death. For everyone involved.