Footage of them placing the bombs?

I bet they chose the plaid jackets to look natural. The fact nobody noticed them placing bags down and timing the clocks inside was probably because they all just thought it was students with sport or video production equipment, a few minutes before Eric walks in you can see two teachers carrying equipment through the cafeteria also. But yeah just goes to show how invisible and unimportant these two guys were to the rest of the school for nobody to take notice to what they were doing.

Does anybody know if the police said about how much all that equipment weighted? at one point they said it would have been impossible for them to carry it in without help.

Archvile wrote:

Does anybody know if the police said about how much all that equipment weighted? at one point they said it would have been impossible for them to carry it in without help.

Hence Eric's wobbly difficulty as can be seen in the vid which I thought initially, plus a combination of not hitting anyone with it.

That day is probably the one day they're thankful nobody gave a shit about them. After dropping it off it must've been glee in their minds like hah, man if you only knew what's in there.
(despite, you know, it failing.)

What a find! Has anybody had any luck attempting to follow them further throughout the tapes? I think I've had some luck following the supposed Dylan since his unique gait and height make him easier to spot but after tape switches views a couple of times I lose him.

EDIT: Here's what I'm talking about - looks very blurry but playing the original at .25x speed you should be able to spot him. No idea if I'm even looking in the right spot but this person does have a long stride.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I think this is Dylan leaving. It looks like this person just got up, he is tall and he is walking alone. If that is Dylan he was there for little over a minute. Eric was there for about one and a half.

If the guys were bottom of the school food chain,without the Trenchcoats you can be almost certain they were unnoticed ,plus,not that anyone seems  in doubt,but if you watch Dylan come in,as his head moves across the pillar,you can make out the definition of the cap,and the wedge of his hair angling out.

well done CVA

For some reason, I tend to believe this is them placing the bombs. The video of Eric is not as convincing as the video of Dylan, whose gait and demeanor seem unmistakable. If I'm to believe that is actually Dylan then I must also believe that is Eric, based on clothing and the heavy duffel bag he's lugging through there. How did the police miss this?

Excellent find by the way!

Okay so It just got around on Tumblr, I won't state the blog name yet until I'm sure everyone has already seen it or confirmed it but there's a follow up to the footage of them placing the bombs through gif context of Eric crouching (placing the bag down I'd assume) and then getting up, followed by another gif in a different angle of him walking away. It looks like him. Anyone seen it? Can I insert the gif here with source?

ultraviolencelv wrote:

Okay so It just got around on Tumblr, I won't state the blog name yet until I'm sure everyone has already seen it or confirmed it but there's a follow up to the footage of them placing the bombs through gif context of Eric crouching (placing the bag down I'd assume) and then getting up, followed by another gif in a different angle of him walking away. It looks like him. Anyone seen it? Can I insert the gif here with source?

IDK if you can insert it but I would love to see it. If it is against rules could you message me the link?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] PM-ed.

I def think that the walking away is Eric. I am not sure about the getting up quite yet but am going to study it a bit more. It took me forever to even see him lol

Just a quick question for those that have seen it, if it is him...why is he there and not by a pillar? Wouldn't be by a pillar? That person getting up appears to be at a table

I am of little knowledge of the exact tables of the bags, table markings in the cafeteria etc so, I am open for some help.

ultraviolencelv wrote:

I am of little knowledge of the exact tables of the bags, table markings in the cafeteria etc so, I am open for some help.

OK so here is a rough draft of the cafe. I put an X where I think this person in the gif may be. And the posts that they put the bombs by roughly are marked. I am still unsure[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Thank you. Mmmm..I don't know. Maybe the finalised bag placement was a change of mind? Maybe eric thought to put it under a table first? But I'm also not saying that's him in the gif.
But the demeanour really looks like him and him walking away is only seconds after the first gif.

Which pillar in the diagram were the bags found?

ultraviolencelv wrote:

Which pillar in the diagram were the bags found?

IIRC the two middle ones in that photo. So close by but not right by that person in the gif

Lizpuff wrote:

IIRC the two middle ones in that photo. So close by but not right by that person in the gif

Oh okay thanks. You're right, they don't match up. But also like I said no confirmation that's Eric. But if it were him the only thing I can think of is, idk, bag placement moved.

This calls into question this statement:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

So....what does it mean? I'm so sorry I have tried reading that statement numerous times. Were the bags moved?

ultraviolencelv wrote:

So....what does it mean? I'm so sorry I have tried reading that statement numerous times. Were the bags moved?

I am thinking it means what they thought were the bags in the video they saw were not really the bags. IF this is Eric placing a bag earlier then it would have been there at 11:14. But in their version it wasn't

Now they could have moved the bags but since we don't have footage or proof of any of that I am hesitant to believe it just yet. I need to read some more opinions before I can decide I think.

Lizpuff wrote:

I am thinking it means what they thought were the bags in the video they saw were not really the bags. IF this is Eric placing a bag earlier then it would have been there at 11:14. But in their version it wasn't

Oh ok ok I get it. Thanks. and Yeah I mean I pulled it out of my ass with the bag movement cause, if anything significant happened it would be on tape.

ultraviolencelv wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

I am thinking it means what they thought were the bags in the video they saw were not really the bags. IF this is Eric placing a bag earlier then it would have been there at 11:14. But in their version it wasn't

Oh ok ok I get it. Thanks. and Yeah I mean I pulled it out of my ass with the bag movement cause, if anything significant happened it would be on tape.

Since CVA posted this I have looked at that video of the cafe over and over trying to find things and I guess my eyes are just too old or I am too tired bc I cannot see much of anything!
But if you look here in this photo, this is Eric shooting at the bomb trying to detonate it...you can see he is kinda shooting toward that pillar. So I think the bomb was right by that pillar.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Okay. good one. and thank you. It really isn't that far off from the supposed person in the gif...I mean, what if it's just within that same spot.

Lizpuff wrote:

Just a quick question for those that have seen it,  if it is him...why is he there and not by a pillar?  Wouldn't be by a pillar?  That person getting up appears to be at a table

If you look at the crime scene photos, what's left of the bombs/duffel bags are near the table, not near the pillar.

Yea I mean the person in that gif appears to be just a table or 2 back or to the right of the pillar in the ss above. Its not that far off.

Lizpuff wrote:

Yea I mean the person in that gif appears to be just a table or 2 back or to the right of the pillar in the ss above.  Its not that far off.

Oh OK. I haven't seen the GIF you're talking about. I thought you meant the person who was supposed to be Eric. Just to clear up what I meant was I do not think Dylan and Eric placed the bags near the pillar. From the crime scene photos, it appears the bags were placed beside 2 different tables. I'm not sure the table numbers though.

Jenn wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

Yea I mean the person in that gif appears to be just a table or 2 back or to the right of the pillar in the ss above.  Its not that far off.

Oh OK. I haven't seen the GIF you're talking about. I thought you meant the person who was supposed to be Eric. Just to clear up what I meant was I do not think Dylan and Eric placed the bags near the pillar. From the crime scene photos, it appears the bags were placed beside 2 different tables. I'm not sure the table numbers though.

Can either Ultra or I post the gif here?

Lizpuff wrote:

Jenn wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

Yea I mean the person in that gif appears to be just a table or 2 back or to the right of the pillar in the ss above.  Its not that far off.

Oh OK. I haven't seen the GIF you're talking about. I thought you meant the person who was supposed to be Eric. Just to clear up what I meant was I do not think Dylan and Eric placed the bags near the pillar. From the crime scene photos, it appears the bags were placed beside 2 different tables. I'm not sure the table numbers though.

Can either Ultra or I post the gif here?

Yes, but it cannot link back to the personal account of the person who posted it. You must open the GIF in a new tab and post that link. Right click on it, open the GIF in a new tab and post the link from the new tab only.

I hope that is ok

I circled the area to look at
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Thanks [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. and Thank you [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] for posting the link. That's the gif right there for those who just came in reading. It's derived from Tumblr, there's the original source if you want you may PM me or Liz, I think it's spreading around by now. It's suppose to be Eric crouching down and then getting up after placing the bag.

We've been speculating if that's him and tying to the placement of bags plus the timing.

I can't help but notice, but from the way the guy squats and then gets up, it does look like Eric. He had a similar position in that Car Wax video when he was hitting the bike and trying to break it. Maybe it's just me.

ultraviolencelv wrote:

I can't help but notice, but from the way the guy squats and then gets up, it does look like Eric. He had a similar position in that Car Wax video when he was hitting the bike and trying to break it. Maybe it's just me.

Really? I will have to watch that again then

Wow, I would definitely say that is him. The GIF is very clear, so mad props to whoever made it. But yea, I'd say it's him without a doubt. His body language and all. Does it fit in with CVA's time of Eric walking in and then walking out?

Jenn wrote:

Wow, I would definitely say that is him. The GIF is very clear, so mad props to whoever made it. But yea, I'd say it's him without a doubt. His body language and all. Does it fit in with CVA's time of Eric walking in and then walking out?

Yes!

I think they decided to plant them earlier than originally planned to insure they found empty tables. Neither boy was popular and they were pretty much known for being tied at the hip. It'd look more suspicious to drop bags off individually at seperate (and possibly occupied) tables once the lunch rush really started picking up.

That's most definitely them though. Very nice work finding this CVA!!!

ultraviolencelv wrote:

I can't help but notice, but from the way the guy squats and then gets up, it does look like Eric. He had a similar position in that Car Wax video when he was hitting the bike and trying to break it. Maybe it's just me.

That's the same thing I thought. And when he gets up he looks slightly bow-legged like Eric was.

Great find!!!

I'd say it's definitely them. Their heights and unique ways of walking are unmissable. You can see that what's thought to be Dylan chooses to carry the heaviest bag in his left hand - this would be unusual for someone who was right handed. It looks to be Dylan's haircut too. Even if it's not them, some kids entered the Cafeteria at that time with bags and left without them - how often does that happen?

I have a researcher friend who did the walk through himself and I thought I would share it. He doesn’t post here but I can send any questions his way 

“I started in the Parking lot in Clements Park, parking as close to the school as I can get. This is, according to their plans, where they parked.
I cannot remember if this was verified by eyewitness testimony, but it was noted in their plans.
It does make sense. They didn’t park in the Junior or Senior lot, and the only other parking was the teacher and guest parking in front of the school. To park there would have created too much chance of being discovered. Students never parked there. They often parked in Clements Park, despite the harassment they received for parking there.
I parked in one of the most likely spots, up by the baseball fields. These are out of sight from the school, and it is not a busy area at all. The parking lot in Clements Park sits above the school and cannot be seen.


I walk from my car, past The Dave Sanders Memorial Field, The school is next, and I walk by the back of the school, with few windows facing me. This would have been the route they would have taken. It is the back of the school and pretty much out of sight.
It is, from my car, 4 minutes and 40 seconds to the door of the school. Then I walked paralleling the cafeteria until I was at about the place they had placed the bombs. That took 60 seconds each way.

I walked back to my car, walking a little faster, trying to match their estimated speed. They wouldn’t be carrying the duffel bags going back to the cars, so they could have walked a little faster. That took 4 minutes and 23 seconds.

Estimating about 2-3 minutes for them to suit up, i waited a few minutes, then got in and drove my car to the student parking lot, and parked in the space in the junior lot where Eric had parked on April 20th. That short drive took 1:57.


Then, estimating a few more minutes at the car, while Eric unloaded another duffel bag and got dressed into his suspenders and trenchcoat, I walked to the top of the hill, on the West side of the school, where the two had, according to witnesses, met, and waited. The unloading took 2-3 minutes, and the walk took 2:49. Yes, it took 2 minutes and 49 seconds. It was about 120 yards to the meeting place at the top of the little hill by the fence. These landmarks are not there anymore, having been removed and new steps installed, but the distance is the same.
The total time was approx. 17 minutes, depending on a few variables. How long did they wait in Clements Park?
How long did it take to get suited up?

So, at 10:58 am Eric is walking into the cafeteria with a bomb in a duffel bag. This is actually a bit suspect. Is it really him? It appears to be. Could he have actually carried that much weight?
Could 145 pound Eric carry a full propane tank, gasoline, napalm and more in a duffel bag in one hand?
Have actually tried it, years ago, and I doubt that he could. But, I have to assume it is possible, because we are seeing him and Dylan actually doing it. They are smaller bags than I expected, and they weigh a lot, but they carry them in quite casually and without much apparent effort.
The 10:58 time on the video means that they parked in the lot at Clements Park 4 minutes and 40 seconds before that, got out of the car, took a minute or two to get ready, and then walked to the school. They didn’t run, because that would have drawn attention. They had to walk, at a reasonable pace, and not attract attention.


The 10:58 am time sets them in the time overview about 5 minutes into the walk I took. So, starting at the school, they leave at 10:59, and walk back to their cars.
All of these times are approximate.


Based on this time-line review, they are pulling into the parking lot at the school at about 11:07 and then walk to the top of the hill at about 11:12.
The shooting started after 11:17. Possibly as late as 11:20
Does this make sense?


It is close enough, given the unknown times for them to unload the cars and get suited up, for this to match. They were seen pulling into the school drive at around 11:08 or 11:10.Any variation would be accounted for in the time they waited at the cars in Clements Park, in the time they took to get ready in the parking lot, and the time they waited at the top of the hill by the fence.
The times can work.


The real question now is: Can they have carried in the bombs in one trip? Were they strong enough? If we add the approx. 8 minutes and 40 seconds that a second trip would have required, there is simply not enough time, unless the video shows them taking their second trip. If they had started with an added first trip ten minutes earlier, then the timing can still work."

I was talking to Randy about this and he had the same thoughts re the weight of the bombs and the effortless way the people on the recording seemed to be carrying it.

cool!

Well, Eric struggled, you can see. Dylan not so much as he was taller. And honestly if you do it quick it's not too hard to carry such weight with you especially when you're psyching yourself out in your mind to do it carefully.

What exactly is that real-time account trying to prove?

asloversgo wrote:

I have a researcher friend who did the walk through himself and I thought I would share it. He doesn’t post here but I can send any questions his way 

“I started in the Parking lot in Clements Park, parking as close to the school as I can get. This is, according to their plans, where they parked.
I cannot remember if this was verified by eyewitness testimony, but it was noted in their plans.
It does make sense. They didn’t park in the Junior or Senior lot, and the only other parking was the teacher and guest parking in front of the school. To park there would have created too much chance of being discovered. Students never parked there. They often parked in Clements Park, despite the harassment they received for parking there.
I parked in one of the most likely spots, up by the baseball fields. These are out of sight from the school, and it is not a busy area at all. The parking lot in Clements Park sits above the school and cannot be seen.


I walk from my car, past The Dave Sanders Memorial Field, The school is next, and I walk by the back of the school, with few windows facing me. This would have been the route they would have taken. It is the back of the school and pretty much out of sight.
It is, from my car, 4 minutes and 40 seconds to the door of the school. Then I walked paralleling the cafeteria until I was at about the place they had placed the bombs. That took 60 seconds each way.

I walked back to my car, walking a little faster, trying to match their estimated speed. They wouldn’t be carrying the duffel bags going back to the cars, so they could have walked a little faster. That took 4 minutes and 23 seconds.

Estimating about 2-3 minutes for them to suit up, i waited a few minutes, then got in and drove my car to the student parking lot, and parked in the space in the junior lot where Eric had parked on April 20th. That short drive took 1:57.


Then, estimating a few more minutes at the car, while Eric unloaded another duffel bag and got dressed into his suspenders and trenchcoat, I walked to the top of the hill, on the West side of the school, where the two had, according to witnesses, met, and waited. The unloading took 2-3 minutes, and the walk took 2:49. Yes, it took 2 minutes and 49 seconds. It was about 120 yards to the meeting place at the top of the little hill by the fence. These landmarks are not there anymore, having been removed and new steps installed, but the distance is the same.
The total time was approx. 17 minutes, depending on a few variables. How long did they wait in Clements Park?
How long did it take to get suited up?

So, at 10:58 am Eric is walking into the cafeteria with a bomb in a duffel bag. This is actually a bit suspect. Is it really him? It appears to be. Could he have actually carried that much weight?
Could 145 pound Eric carry a full propane tank, gasoline, napalm and more in a duffel bag in one hand?
Have actually tried it, years ago, and I doubt that he could. But, I have to assume it is possible, because we are seeing him and Dylan actually doing it. They are smaller bags than I expected, and they weigh a lot, but they carry them in quite casually and without much apparent effort.
The 10:58 time on the video means that they parked in the lot at Clements Park 4 minutes and 40 seconds before that, got out of the car, took a minute or two to get ready, and then walked to the school. They didn’t run, because that would have drawn attention. They had to walk, at a reasonable pace, and not attract attention.


The 10:58 am time sets them in the time overview about 5 minutes into the walk I took. So, starting at the school, they leave at 10:59, and walk back to their cars.
All of these times are approximate.


Based on this time-line review, they are pulling into the parking lot at the school at about 11:07 and then walk to the top of the hill at about 11:12.
The shooting started after 11:17. Possibly as late as 11:20
Does this make sense?


It is close enough, given the unknown times for them to unload the cars and get suited up, for this to match. They were seen pulling into the school drive at around 11:08 or 11:10.Any variation would be accounted for in the time they waited at the cars in Clements Park, in the time they took to get ready in the parking lot, and the time they waited at the top of the hill by the fence.
The times can work.


The real question now is: Can they have carried in the bombs in one trip? Were they strong enough? If we add the approx. 8 minutes and 40 seconds that a second trip would have required, there is simply not enough time, unless the video shows them taking their second trip. If they had started with an added first trip ten minutes earlier, then the timing can still work."

I don't think its too much of a stretch to think Eric and Dylan could carry those bags like that. There's that old saying about "mothers lifting cars up off their child". Adrenaline acts as a simultaneous energy boost and pain killer. Imagine the adrenaline rush carrying those bombs in while mere minutes from NBK must have given E/D. And too be honest the kid who is supposedly Eric isn't having the easiest of times. There's clearly some weight in the bag he's carrying and he seems to be fighting to keep his balance straight. Dylan being lanky combined with his large walking stride makes it hard to tell the weight of the bag. The shirt on Dylan alone is enough evidence for me. I understand the skepticism about that being Eric though.

Nirvana92 wrote:

asloversgo wrote:

I have a researcher friend who did the walk through himself and I thought I would share it. He doesn’t post here but I can send any questions his way 

“I started in the Parking lot in Clements Park, parking as close to the school as I can get. This is, according to their plans, where they parked.
I cannot remember if this was verified by eyewitness testimony, but it was noted in their plans.
It does make sense. They didn’t park in the Junior or Senior lot, and the only other parking was the teacher and guest parking in front of the school. To park there would have created too much chance of being discovered. Students never parked there. They often parked in Clements Park, despite the harassment they received for parking there.
I parked in one of the most likely spots, up by the baseball fields. These are out of sight from the school, and it is not a busy area at all. The parking lot in Clements Park sits above the school and cannot be seen.


I walk from my car, past The Dave Sanders Memorial Field, The school is next, and I walk by the back of the school, with few windows facing me. This would have been the route they would have taken. It is the back of the school and pretty much out of sight.
It is, from my car, 4 minutes and 40 seconds to the door of the school. Then I walked paralleling the cafeteria until I was at about the place they had placed the bombs. That took 60 seconds each way.

I walked back to my car, walking a little faster, trying to match their estimated speed. They wouldn’t be carrying the duffel bags going back to the cars, so they could have walked a little faster. That took 4 minutes and 23 seconds.

Estimating about 2-3 minutes for them to suit up, i waited a few minutes, then got in and drove my car to the student parking lot, and parked in the space in the junior lot where Eric had parked on April 20th. That short drive took 1:57.


Then, estimating a few more minutes at the car, while Eric unloaded another duffel bag and got dressed into his suspenders and trenchcoat, I walked to the top of the hill, on the West side of the school, where the two had, according to witnesses, met, and waited. The unloading took 2-3 minutes, and the walk took 2:49. Yes, it took 2 minutes and 49 seconds. It was about 120 yards to the meeting place at the top of the little hill by the fence. These landmarks are not there anymore, having been removed and new steps installed, but the distance is the same.
The total time was approx. 17 minutes, depending on a few variables. How long did they wait in Clements Park?
How long did it take to get suited up?

So, at 10:58 am Eric is walking into the cafeteria with a bomb in a duffel bag. This is actually a bit suspect. Is it really him? It appears to be. Could he have actually carried that much weight?
Could 145 pound Eric carry a full propane tank, gasoline, napalm and more in a duffel bag in one hand?
Have actually tried it, years ago, and I doubt that he could. But, I have to assume it is possible, because we are seeing him and Dylan actually doing it. They are smaller bags than I expected, and they weigh a lot, but they carry them in quite casually and without much apparent effort.
The 10:58 time on the video means that they parked in the lot at Clements Park 4 minutes and 40 seconds before that, got out of the car, took a minute or two to get ready, and then walked to the school. They didn’t run, because that would have drawn attention. They had to walk, at a reasonable pace, and not attract attention.


The 10:58 am time sets them in the time overview about 5 minutes into the walk I took. So, starting at the school, they leave at 10:59, and walk back to their cars.
All of these times are approximate.


Based on this time-line review, they are pulling into the parking lot at the school at about 11:07 and then walk to the top of the hill at about 11:12.
The shooting started after 11:17. Possibly as late as 11:20
Does this make sense?


It is close enough, given the unknown times for them to unload the cars and get suited up, for this to match. They were seen pulling into the school drive at around 11:08 or 11:10.Any variation would be accounted for in the time they waited at the cars in Clements Park, in the time they took to get ready in the parking lot, and the time they waited at the top of the hill by the fence.
The times can work.


The real question now is: Can they have carried in the bombs in one trip? Were they strong enough? If we add the approx. 8 minutes and 40 seconds that a second trip would have required, there is simply not enough time, unless the video shows them taking their second trip. If they had started with an added first trip ten minutes earlier, then the timing can still work."

I don't think its too much of a stretch to think Eric and Dylan could carry those bags like that. There's that old saying about "mothers lifting cars up off their child". Adrenaline acts as a simultaneous energy boost and pain killer. Imagine the adrenaline rush carrying those bombs in while mere minutes from NBK must have given E/D. And too be honest the kid who is supposedly Eric isn't having the easiest of times. There's clearly some weight in the bag he's carrying and he seems to be fighting to keep his balance straight. Dylan being lanky combined with his large walking stride makes it hard to tell the weight of the bag. The shirt on Dylan alone is enough evidence for me. I understand the skepticism about that being Eric though.

I am with you. I def think he could have carried it. It would have been a lot of weight but he was pumped and ready to go.

Thank you I was making the same point [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

The weight of the bombs were not a problem at all.

From CNN:

Blending in with 400 other backpacks and bags scattered throughout the cafeteria, the duffel bags conceal 20-pound propane bombs timed to explode at 11:17 a.m.

Each tank was 20 lbs. A study determined that the average weight of a 6th grader's backpack in the US is 20-30 lbs. Next time you are at a sporting goods store go heft a pair of 20 lbs. weights.  Easy.

As far as the walkthrough timeline is concerned, which entrance do we think they utilized when they planted the bombs?