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 Why Columbine?

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PostSubject: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeFri Jun 24, 2016 5:11 pm

I was wondering if anyone could explain what it is about Columbine specifically that means we are still fascinated by it to this day? Any thoughts?
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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeFri Jun 24, 2016 6:04 pm

That's a very good question. For me personally I never cared much at all about this specific event until recently watching Sue Klebold's interviews. I came to realize that there's so much that I never knew about Columbine and the two shooters. So I started doing my own research on this case. I truly can say that I can sympathize for Eric and Dylan and I wish things could have been different for them. It's easy to label them as bloodthirsty, gun-totting monsters yet there's so much that we don't know.

Also Columbine sparked a revolution in school-shootings and violence. Throughout the years these tragedies keep repeating itself, like Virginia Tech, Sandy Hook, and just recently the Orlando nightclub massacre. So it brings up a lot discussions and debates about gun control, bullying, racism etc.

We may never know all the answers as to why these people committed such acts. All we can do is remember the victims and to learn to try in preventing any more violent acts.

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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeFri Jun 24, 2016 6:42 pm

I think everything about it looks like a movie, which we don't tired of watching and there're always some little new things to find out about it.

Two outcast kids decide to get revenge shooting student at their school,making bombs and planning to destroy Columbine. They leave a huge amount of material on video and on their personal diaries describing what they are going to do.

It looks a movie plot when you read this.

Also I think one of the main reasons (at least for me ) is that I identify myself with Eric and Dylan, so I really keen to know their story because it seems really similar to mine and I'm keen to know what led them to do that.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeFri Jun 24, 2016 6:43 pm

The innocence of the crime, the beginning of watching the country change it's protocol and reporting style because of Columbine - the handling of Columbine was so amateur which is what makes it so unique and messy, suburban middle-class broken white boys backstory, the relation of their mental and emotional instability, and in a way, as selfish and morbid is, i'm proud that Columbine has became the superior granddaddy of all mass-shooting crimes. It's permanently a brand, it ALWAYS goes back to Columbine when a new mass-shooting occurs for reference, nothing can surpass the remembrance of Columbine. So, yeah, pretty much that. and that might just be the gist of it cause I'm sure others will make points that I agree with. Something about Columbine is so glamorous I can't put my mind to it.

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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeFri Jun 24, 2016 6:58 pm

I can't speak for anyone but me, but my fascination probably stems from Columbine happening shortly after I got out of high school. I graduated in small town USA , and things like that just didn't happen, until it did. When it did, it took away a small part of our feeling of safety and since that day, I have been driven to try to understand what drove Eric and Dylan in hopes that we can keep it from happening again. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that we can as the event has been, in some ways, duplicated several times in the intervening years.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeSat Jun 25, 2016 9:58 am

Thanks these are all really insightful thoughts. I will go and watch Sue Klebold's interviews as I have not done so yet.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeSat Jun 25, 2016 4:08 pm

Be warned: Sue's interviews are heartbreaking, as is her book. It seems she is in denial at times, and she puts too much blame on Eric. But those things just add to the sadness of her story. I give her benefit of doubt because she is a mother who has suffered greatly because of her child. Now why am I interested in columbine? I couldnt put it any better than the people who have answered above. They hit the nail on the head. Good luck with your thesis btw
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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeMon Jun 27, 2016 8:40 am

For me, I am more interested in the years leading up to Columbine rather than the massacre itself. Just thinking about how they were thinking, what they were feeling, what they said before it happened. How they kept it a secret for the most part all the while dropping hints about it to their friends and family. I am always wondering just what those 2 said to each other when they were alone. There is also so much info on this case. It is very interesting!

I do follow other crimes but Columbine is a huge one for me

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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeMon Jun 27, 2016 8:50 am

How normal, relatable and funny the two guys were prior to becoming monsters.
How they were able to carry it out.
The fact there's two of them and not just some lone loon.
The fact they able to build time bombs and tried to do something destructive.
Two guys with bright futures, throwing it away - mysterious and makes it interesting.
The fact they are dead and couldn't explain their actions. .
The fact it perfectly captures that nice 1990's vibe in all the videos, photos, writings.
The way the two guys looked, very distinct and rememberable.
In an era where leaving 1000 warning signs can go unnoticed - how the world is different now.
How magical Littleton and the school looks, the snowy mountains.
Because they were not just crazies, they were intelligent and polite guys - What they did that day doesn't fit their characteristic so it's fascinating.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeMon Jun 27, 2016 9:00 am

And also I have seen this mentioned that it was just the time that it happened that makes it interesting.

The internet, computers and cell phones all existed but were not very popular. In reading the 11k I would say near 6o% of people interviewed did not have internet/computer access at home. Which seems mind boggling to teenagers nowadays!

That big old cell phone Mike had.

During the massacre Students didn't have quick access to call home. Just comparing that to what would happen if Columbine happened now is very interesting to me

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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeMon Jun 27, 2016 9:03 am

Lizpuff wrote:
I am more interested in the years leading up to Columbine rather than the massacre itself. Just thinking about how they were thinking, what they were feeling, what they said before it happened. How they kept it a secret for the most part all the while dropping hints about it to their friends and family. I am always wondering just what those 2 said to each other when they were alone.

During the massacre Students didn't have quick access to call home. Just comparing that to what would happen if Columbine happened now is very interesting to me

Archvile wrote:
How normal, relatable and funny the two guys were prior to becoming monsters.
How they were able to carry it out.
The fact there's two of them and not just some lone loon.
The fact they able to build time bombs and tried to do something destructive.
Two guys with bright futures, throwing it away - mysterious and makes it interesting.
The fact they are dead and couldn't explain their actions. .
The fact it perfectly captures that nice 1990's vibe in all the videos, photos, writings.
The way the two guys looked, very distinct and rememberable.
In an era where leaving 1000 warning signs can go unnoticed - how the world is different now.
How magical Littleton and the school looks, the snowy mountains.
Because they were not just crazies, they were intelligent and polite guys - What they did that day doesn't fit their characteristic so it's fascinating.

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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeMon Jun 27, 2016 3:01 pm

For me, it's the fact it was a duo acting out in this manner, not a lone gunman. The dialectic between the two boys will always be a fascinating aspect of the crime for me.

The more I got into it, I realized that, like the Titanic tragedy, Columbine is something that was a confluence of so many things going unnoticed, avoided, or ignored, that only ONE little thing in the sequence of events could have easily derailed such a terrible catastrophe.

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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeMon Jun 27, 2016 9:42 pm

I am just amazed that two teenagers could plan and stay loyal to each other for months and then go through with NBK. I can't imagine that they didn't have arguments and disagreements as their personalities seem so different yet they stayed together till the bitter end. Also, it was also a more innocent time and the tragedy was so bungeled by law enforcement and the news coverage was so filled with misinformation.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeMon Jun 27, 2016 9:50 pm

I agree. Their loyalty is like that of a Bonnie+Clyde/Mickey+Mallory aspect to it but it's just between two friends. Hence I wish I could've been a fly on the wall when the two are alone, I really wanna know how they interact and what they talked about. In fact my very first post on this site is relating of this point; is part of what makes Columbine so unique due to the fact that it's between two friends as opposed to the usual lone gunman.

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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 28, 2016 12:35 pm

I hadn't thought of that, thank you everyone
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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 28, 2016 2:45 pm

To me, it was the 9/11, ground zero, of school shootings. And, like 9/11, there was instant news coverage nationwide. I'll never forget where I was when it happened, but I wasn't really interested in it at the time.

Once I gained an interest in it, there was so much information online and I consumed as much as I could. To me, the reason it is captivating is all the cover ups, lies and half truths perpetrated by Jeffco. The horrible investigation into the massacre. I think if they would have released everything from the beginning, including the basement tapes, I'm not sure there would be so much interest.

Just look at other school shootings; Sandy Hook, Virginia Tech, Eliot Rodger (sorry, can't think of his school). Authorities were quick to release what they had, their final reports seemed concise and well investigated.

For me, it's what we don't know, what's still hidden, what we don't know and will probably never know. The hope that maybe one day something previously hidden will see the light of day.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 28, 2016 2:51 pm

Tomb wrote:
To me, it was the 9/11, ground zero, of school shootings. And, like 9/11, there was instant news coverage nationwide. I'll never forget where I was when it happened, but I wasn't really interested in it at the time.

Once I gained an interest in it, there was so much information online and I consumed as much as I could. To me, the reason it is captivating is all the cover ups, lies and half truths perpetrated by Jeffco. The horrible investigation into the massacre. I think if they would have released everything from the beginning, including the basement tapes, I'm not sure there would be so much interest.

Just look at other school shootings; Sandy Hook, Virginia Tech, Eliot Rodger (sorry, can't think of his school). Authorities were quick to release what they had, their final reports seemed concise and well investigated.

For me, it's what we don't know, what's still hidden, what we don't know and will probably never know. The hope that maybe one day something previously hidden will see the light of day.

Yes. Why in the Hell are they covering so much up? Why do they hide things and deny things until sued over it? What do they have that they do not want to share?
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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 28, 2016 3:18 pm

Lizpuff wrote:

Yes.  Why in the Hell are they covering so much up?  Why do they hide things and deny things until sued over it?  What do they have that they do not want to share?

This sums up my entire frustration with this case. I understand that they want to prevent another instance, but it seems a moot point when that has already happened. So I have to believe it is for some other undisclosed reason. Why not just release what they know ?
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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 28, 2016 3:23 pm

lilypadlane wrote:
Lizpuff wrote:

Yes.  Why in the Hell are they covering so much up?  Why do they hide things and deny things until sued over it?  What do they have that they do not want to share?

This sums up my entire frustration with this case. I understand that they want to prevent another instance, but it seems a moot point when that has already happened. So I have to believe it is for some other undisclosed reason. Why not just release what they know ?

Exactly. There have already been copycats that have professed to looking up to Eric and Dylan. You can go onto Google and get the same recipes for bombs that Eric and Dylan used. You can read their journals and see their plans plain as day. Which just leads me to wonder just what they have in their possession that isn't being shared. I do not think any of the transcripts for any of the 911 calls/videos are accurate for one thing. There is something fishy here and they need to spill it
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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 28, 2016 3:38 pm

Lizpuff wrote:
lilypadlane wrote:
Lizpuff wrote:

Yes.  Why in the Hell are they covering so much up?  Why do they hide things and deny things until sued over it?  What do they have that they do not want to share?

This sums up my entire frustration with this case. I understand that they want to prevent another instance, but it seems a moot point when that has already happened. So I have to believe it is for some other undisclosed reason. Why not just release what they know ?

Exactly.  There have already been copycats that have professed to looking up to Eric and Dylan.  You can go onto Google and get the same recipes for bombs that Eric and Dylan used.  You can read their journals and see their plans plain as day.  Which just leads me to wonder just what they have in their possession that isn't being shared.  I do not think any of the transcripts for any of the 911 calls/videos are accurate for one thing.  There is something fishy here and they need to spill it

I totally agree. Nearly every school shooter since has referenced E & D in some form or another, and that's without what's still kept under lock and key.

The whole ordeal has remained covered in a shroud of secrecy. What's the secret???

Worried about copycats? Pfffft, yeah right. It happens every.single.day almost, so that doesn't hold water.

All those pages missing from the 11k....why?? Aren't some of the pages available in the 11k numbered over 20,000?

Destroy the basement tapes because of copycats? Really?!?! I'm sure by now we've seen much worse on television than 2 teenagers sitting around whining.

If it were up to me, I'd release every single thing related to Columbine, down to a speck of dust if it had any bearing on the event. I've never seen a public agency get away with so much blatant disregard for the law, much less human decency.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 28, 2016 3:43 pm

Tomb wrote:
Lizpuff wrote:
lilypadlane wrote:
Lizpuff wrote:

Yes.  Why in the Hell are they covering so much up?  Why do they hide things and deny things until sued over it?  What do they have that they do not want to share?

This sums up my entire frustration with this case. I understand that they want to prevent another instance, but it seems a moot point when that has already happened. So I have to believe it is for some other undisclosed reason. Why not just release what they know ?

Exactly.  There have already been copycats that have professed to looking up to Eric and Dylan.  You can go onto Google and get the same recipes for bombs that Eric and Dylan used.  You can read their journals and see their plans plain as day.  Which just leads me to wonder just what they have in their possession that isn't being shared.  I do not think any of the transcripts for any of the 911 calls/videos are accurate for one thing.  There is something fishy here and they need to spill it

I totally agree. Nearly every school shooter since has referenced E & D in some form or another, and that's without what's still kept under lock and key.

The whole ordeal has remained covered in a shroud of secrecy. What's the secret???

Worried about copycats? Pfffft, yeah right. It happens every.single.day almost, so that doesn't hold water.

All those pages missing from the 11k....why?? Aren't some of the pages available in the 11k numbered over 20,000?

Destroy the basement tapes because of copycats? Really?!?! I'm sure by now we've seen much worse on television than 2 teenagers sitting around whining.

If it were up to me, I'd release every single thing related to Columbine, down to a speck of dust if it had any bearing on the event. I've never seen a public agency get away with so much blatant disregard for the law, much less human decency.

I have no life so I read all of the 11k. Every page. The number of inaccuracies for "an official document" is astounding. Typos, grammar mistakes, repeats etc. There are pages that allude to another report that does not exist. Like where the heck is the report from Officer Hicks? There are page numbers skipped, page numbers that repeat the list can go on and on. Reports from officers are short and there is a ton of hearsay. Makes my head spin
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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 28, 2016 4:03 pm

Lizpuff wrote:
Tomb wrote:
Lizpuff wrote:
lilypadlane wrote:
Lizpuff wrote:

Yes.  Why in the Hell are they covering so much up?  Why do they hide things and deny things until sued over it?  What do they have that they do not want to share?

This sums up my entire frustration with this case. I understand that they want to prevent another instance, but it seems a moot point when that has already happened. So I have to believe it is for some other undisclosed reason. Why not just release what they know ?

Exactly.  There have already been copycats that have professed to looking up to Eric and Dylan.  You can go onto Google and get the same recipes for bombs that Eric and Dylan used.  You can read their journals and see their plans plain as day.  Which just leads me to wonder just what they have in their possession that isn't being shared.  I do not think any of the transcripts for any of the 911 calls/videos are accurate for one thing.  There is something fishy here and they need to spill it

I totally agree. Nearly every school shooter since has referenced E & D in some form or another, and that's without what's still kept under lock and key.

The whole ordeal has remained covered in a shroud of secrecy. What's the secret???

Worried about copycats? Pfffft, yeah right. It happens every.single.day almost, so that doesn't hold water.

All those pages missing from the 11k....why?? Aren't some of the pages available in the 11k numbered over 20,000?

Destroy the basement tapes because of copycats? Really?!?! I'm sure by now we've seen much worse on television than 2 teenagers sitting around whining.

If it were up to me, I'd release every single thing related to Columbine, down to a speck of dust if it had any bearing on the event. I've never seen a public agency get away with so much blatant disregard for the law, much less human decency.

I have no life so I read all of the 11k.  Every page.  The number of inaccuracies for "an official document" is astounding.  Typos, grammar mistakes, repeats etc.  There are pages that allude to another report that does not exist.  Like where the heck is the report from Officer Hicks?  There are page numbers skipped, page numbers that repeat the list can go on and on.  Reports from officers are short and there is a ton of hearsay.  Makes my head spin

YES! I've read it too, albeit awhile back, but it's hard NOT to notice. We're 17 years past the massacre, GIVE IT UP ALREADY! Nobody's asking for victims' autopsies or their death photos, but release ALL the reports, documents, paperwork, videos, etc.

What exactly is in E & D's parents depositions from that lawsuit that just had to be sealed til 2027 (is that right?)? Absolutely ridiculous.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 28, 2016 4:05 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] welp, the other thing is that Sue Klebold also doesn't want the basement tapes out.

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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 28, 2016 4:07 pm

Tomb wrote:
Lizpuff wrote:
Tomb wrote:
Lizpuff wrote:
lilypadlane wrote:
Lizpuff wrote:

Yes.  Why in the Hell are they covering so much up?  Why do they hide things and deny things until sued over it?  What do they have that they do not want to share?

This sums up my entire frustration with this case. I understand that they want to prevent another instance, but it seems a moot point when that has already happened. So I have to believe it is for some other undisclosed reason. Why not just release what they know ?

Exactly.  There have already been copycats that have professed to looking up to Eric and Dylan.  You can go onto Google and get the same recipes for bombs that Eric and Dylan used.  You can read their journals and see their plans plain as day.  Which just leads me to wonder just what they have in their possession that isn't being shared.  I do not think any of the transcripts for any of the 911 calls/videos are accurate for one thing.  There is something fishy here and they need to spill it

I totally agree. Nearly every school shooter since has referenced E & D in some form or another, and that's without what's still kept under lock and key.

The whole ordeal has remained covered in a shroud of secrecy. What's the secret???

Worried about copycats? Pfffft, yeah right. It happens every.single.day almost, so that doesn't hold water.

All those pages missing from the 11k....why?? Aren't some of the pages available in the 11k numbered over 20,000?

Destroy the basement tapes because of copycats? Really?!?! I'm sure by now we've seen much worse on television than 2 teenagers sitting around whining.

If it were up to me, I'd release every single thing related to Columbine, down to a speck of dust if it had any bearing on the event. I've never seen a public agency get away with so much blatant disregard for the law, much less human decency.

I have no life so I read all of the 11k.  Every page.  The number of inaccuracies for "an official document" is astounding.  Typos, grammar mistakes, repeats etc.  There are pages that allude to another report that does not exist.  Like where the heck is the report from Officer Hicks?  There are page numbers skipped, page numbers that repeat the list can go on and on.  Reports from officers are short and there is a ton of hearsay.  Makes my head spin

YES! I've read it too, albeit awhile back, but it's hard NOT to notice. We're 17 years past the massacre, GIVE IT UP ALREADY! Nobody's asking for victims' autopsies or their death photos, but release ALL the reports, documents, paperwork, videos, etc.

What exactly is in E & D's parents depositions from that lawsuit that just had to be sealed til 2027 (is that right?)? Absolutely ridiculous.
YES! OMG I just reread Kass' book and he talks a ton about all this and it re-ignited the fire in me wanting more information. I may be dead by the time it gets released. If ever. Which makes me sad.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 28, 2016 4:17 pm

Lizpuff wrote:
Tomb wrote:
Lizpuff wrote:
Tomb wrote:
Lizpuff wrote:
lilypadlane wrote:
Lizpuff wrote:

Yes.  Why in the Hell are they covering so much up?  Why do they hide things and deny things until sued over it?  What do they have that they do not want to share?

This sums up my entire frustration with this case. I understand that they want to prevent another instance, but it seems a moot point when that has already happened. So I have to believe it is for some other undisclosed reason. Why not just release what they know ?

Exactly.  There have already been copycats that have professed to looking up to Eric and Dylan.  You can go onto Google and get the same recipes for bombs that Eric and Dylan used.  You can read their journals and see their plans plain as day.  Which just leads me to wonder just what they have in their possession that isn't being shared.  I do not think any of the transcripts for any of the 911 calls/videos are accurate for one thing.  There is something fishy here and they need to spill it

I totally agree. Nearly every school shooter since has referenced E & D in some form or another, and that's without what's still kept under lock and key.

The whole ordeal has remained covered in a shroud of secrecy. What's the secret???

Worried about copycats? Pfffft, yeah right. It happens every.single.day almost, so that doesn't hold water.

All those pages missing from the 11k....why?? Aren't some of the pages available in the 11k numbered over 20,000?

Destroy the basement tapes because of copycats? Really?!?! I'm sure by now we've seen much worse on television than 2 teenagers sitting around whining.

If it were up to me, I'd release every single thing related to Columbine, down to a speck of dust if it had any bearing on the event. I've never seen a public agency get away with so much blatant disregard for the law, much less human decency.

I have no life so I read all of the 11k.  Every page.  The number of inaccuracies for "an official document" is astounding.  Typos, grammar mistakes, repeats etc.  There are pages that allude to another report that does not exist.  Like where the heck is the report from Officer Hicks?  There are page numbers skipped, page numbers that repeat the list can go on and on.  Reports from officers are short and there is a ton of hearsay.  Makes my head spin

YES! I've read it too, albeit awhile back, but it's hard NOT to notice. We're 17 years past the massacre, GIVE IT UP ALREADY! Nobody's asking for victims' autopsies or their death photos, but release ALL the reports, documents, paperwork, videos, etc.

What exactly is in E & D's parents depositions from that lawsuit that just had to be sealed til 2027 (is that right?)? Absolutely ridiculous.
YES!  OMG I just reread Kass' book and he talks a ton about all this and it re-ignited the fire in me wanting more information.  I may be dead by the time it gets released.  If ever.  Which makes me sad.
Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes! OMFG! I could not have said it better myself.

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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 28, 2016 4:34 pm

aquillina wrote:
Lizpuff wrote:
Tomb wrote:
Lizpuff wrote:
Tomb wrote:
Lizpuff wrote:
lilypadlane wrote:
Lizpuff wrote:

Yes.  Why in the Hell are they covering so much up?  Why do they hide things and deny things until sued over it?  What do they have that they do not want to share?

This sums up my entire frustration with this case. I understand that they want to prevent another instance, but it seems a moot point when that has already happened. So I have to believe it is for some other undisclosed reason. Why not just release what they know ?

Exactly.  There have already been copycats that have professed to looking up to Eric and Dylan.  You can go onto Google and get the same recipes for bombs that Eric and Dylan used.  You can read their journals and see their plans plain as day.  Which just leads me to wonder just what they have in their possession that isn't being shared.  I do not think any of the transcripts for any of the 911 calls/videos are accurate for one thing.  There is something fishy here and they need to spill it

I totally agree. Nearly every school shooter since has referenced E & D in some form or another, and that's without what's still kept under lock and key.

The whole ordeal has remained covered in a shroud of secrecy. What's the secret???

Worried about copycats? Pfffft, yeah right. It happens every.single.day almost, so that doesn't hold water.

All those pages missing from the 11k....why?? Aren't some of the pages available in the 11k numbered over 20,000?

Destroy the basement tapes because of copycats? Really?!?! I'm sure by now we've seen much worse on television than 2 teenagers sitting around whining.

If it were up to me, I'd release every single thing related to Columbine, down to a speck of dust if it had any bearing on the event. I've never seen a public agency get away with so much blatant disregard for the law, much less human decency.

I have no life so I read all of the 11k.  Every page.  The number of inaccuracies for "an official document" is astounding.  Typos, grammar mistakes, repeats etc.  There are pages that allude to another report that does not exist.  Like where the heck is the report from Officer Hicks?  There are page numbers skipped, page numbers that repeat the list can go on and on.  Reports from officers are short and there is a ton of hearsay.  Makes my head spin

YES! I've read it too, albeit awhile back, but it's hard NOT to notice. We're 17 years past the massacre, GIVE IT UP ALREADY! Nobody's asking for victims' autopsies or their death photos, but release ALL the reports, documents, paperwork, videos, etc.

What exactly is in E & D's parents depositions from that lawsuit that just had to be sealed til 2027 (is that right?)? Absolutely ridiculous.
YES!  OMG I just reread Kass' book and he talks a ton about all this and it re-ignited the fire in me wanting more information.  I may be dead by the time it gets released.  If ever.  Which makes me sad.
Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes! OMFG! I could not have said it better myself.

I think we'll all be dead while all this information rots in some vault or evidence locker somewhere. It just doesn't make sense to keep so much hidden still, 17 years after the fact.

I just try to imagine what is so earth shattering on the parents' depositions that they MUST be sealed until 2027 (hope that's right). I mean, I've seen my fair share of depositions regarding gruesome, violent acts. In this case, they were deposed in a lawsuit filed by Mark Taylor against the pharmaceutical company that made Luvox. How bad can they really be? And why does it feel as though the only people Jeffco is protecting is themselves, first and foremost, and E & D's parents?
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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 28, 2016 4:39 pm

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] welp, the other thing is that Sue Klebold also doesn't want the basement tapes out.

Oh, yes, she has made that quite clear, in her interviews and her book. Like I said in a post, it seems as if Jeffco is looking out for themselves first and foremost and then E & D's parents. I have no idea why, but it just seems that way.

I guess it's moot anyway if the basement tapes have truly been destroyed.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 28, 2016 4:42 pm

I think originally it was fear of lawsuits. But that time has passed. So Jeffco is still afraid of further embarrassing themselves. Too late for that imho

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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 28, 2016 4:44 pm

lilith wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] welp, the other thing is that Sue Klebold also doesn't want the basement tapes out.

I can understand certain things not releasing. Like the photos of the dead in the library for example. I just don't think that would do anything for anyone really. I know some like that kind of thing and it's fine but I don't.

For me though I think Sue is still crushed about those tapes. Those tapes squelched her ideas about the "moment of madness" and shattered her idealizations about her baby. If others see the tapes I think she fears more judgement will come onto Dylan and moreso herself. A lot of people already do judge her just for giving birth to him. But if they see him there in his home with her in the next room blissfully ignorant...well that is more to pick on her for.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 28, 2016 4:52 pm

Yes, I agree I think she wants to protect Dylan's "image" or "memory". I get it, but what about all the other school shooters? Most things available about them is released, unflattering or not.

I'm not sure if it was this thread or not, but I agree, no one NEEDS to see the victims lying dead in the library or NEEDS access to their autopsies which probably includes photos as well. These are documents that shouldn't see the light of day. I couldn't force myself to look even if they were available. And I work with dead bodies on a daily basis. The diagrams of the victims in the library are all the public needs.

But, the missing documents, reports, videos, etc. should be released and if not, an explanation why they refuse to produce them. I'm fairly certain all the lawsuits have been settled or dropped, so why keep the shroud of secrecy tightly closed?

BTW, I've been "flagged" several times in topics by members. I don't know how to reciprocate lol.


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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 28, 2016 4:58 pm

I think you mean when it says you were tagged?

if someone types [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] it tags you

so you can type @"any username" and tag them

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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 28, 2016 5:34 pm

Lizpuff wrote:
I think you mean when it says you were tagged?

if someone types [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] it tags you

so you can type @"any username" and tag them

lol! ok thanks! I've looked everywhere for a "tag" button.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 28, 2016 8:01 pm

I don't think it's much covering up anything to the case but rather laying low so Jeffco wouldn't have to admit they fucked up.

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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 28, 2016 8:08 pm

I think lawsuits is just all that they're avoiding, either way they still have the upper-hand due to the hidden materials the people hound them for, using it as a form of leverage or some sorts, where speaking of which I can't say what has happened to all of it or if they've been long disposed of. And about Sue not wanting the BT released, no biggie. Why would she let the world see what a monster her son could be?

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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 28, 2016 8:14 pm

but with the recent finding of the cafeteria footage thanks to one of our own people [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], I think it might give us a little bit of hope that hey, who knows what our own community might uncover? It could be years from now let alone maybe months, but almost anything might land in our sights or hands if we remain dedicated. It wouldn't really do much, the case is long done, but it's just something new to add to our collection and analyzation.

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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 28, 2016 9:51 pm

liquorvamp wrote:
I think lawsuits is just all that they're avoiding, either way they still have the upper-hand due to the hidden materials the people hound them for, using it as a form of leverage or some sorts, which speaking of which I can't say what has happened to all of it or if they've been long disposed of. And about Sue not wanting the BT released, no biggie. Why would she let the world see what a monster her son could be?

I agree, but other mass shooters are not afforded the luxury of having their videos hidden away until they are quietly destroyed. I get that she's his mother, but everyone of us is someone's son or daughter and some of us even have children. I get it, I do, but imagine other mass shooters' parents having to see their children along with the rest of us.

I can't think of another single case where there has been so much secrecy and withholding of certain evidence, especially concerning school shooters.

Meh, maybe they were given a pass since it was the first school shooting of its kind.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeWed Jun 29, 2016 8:22 am

liquorvamp wrote:
but with the recent finding of the cafeteria footage thanks to one of our own people [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], I think it might give us a little bit of hope that hey, who knows what our own community might uncover? It could be years from now let alone maybe months, but almost anything might land in our sights or hands it we remain dedicated. It wouldn't really do much, the case is long done, but it's just something new to add to our collection and analyzation.

True. Someone here found John Savage in the tapes too. And I know you can see several of the victims on the CCTV too.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeWed Jun 29, 2016 8:44 am

Lizpuff wrote:
And I know you can see several of the victims on the CCTV too.
Waitx3, really? Who?!

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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeWed Jun 29, 2016 9:08 am

liquorvamp wrote:
Lizpuff wrote:
And I know you can see several of the victims on the CCTV too.
Waitx3, really? Who?!

Well I haven't tried myself, but Syd Keating watched the tapes and was able to pinpoint several key people including Lance Kirklin prior to him being shot. I don't have the brain power to sift thru the tape and I don't know Lance's face enough to be able to pick it out but he is there.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeWed Jun 29, 2016 9:10 am

Daniel R & Kyle should be seen on it too, right? as they were both in the cafeteria for awhile.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeWed Jun 29, 2016 9:12 am

Archvile wrote:
Daniel R & Kyle should be seen on it too, right? as they were both in the cafeteria for awhile.

I dont know about Kyle but Lance was with Daniel and Sean so all 3 should be visible. She only mentioned a few names
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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeWed Jun 29, 2016 9:12 am

She also got to see the BT or at least a part of them. But they were muted when she watched.

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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeWed Jun 29, 2016 9:17 am

Ah? I wanna see Lance, Danny and Sean. I wanna see the trio....any chances of the person pointing out the exact time [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]? If anyone else has info do share!
I remember during this year's coverage of Columbine when they interviewed Sean, he shared that he has been obsessed with watching the cafeteria tapes and like, trying to find himself on it or something. Thought that was interesting...

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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeWed Jun 29, 2016 9:35 am

liquorvamp wrote:
Ah? I wanna see Lance, Danny and Sean. I wanna see the trio....any chances of the person pointing out the exact time [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]? If anyone else has info do share!
I remember during this year's coverage of Columbine when they interviewed Sean, he shared that he has been obsessed with watching the cafeteria tapes and like, trying to find himself on it or something. Thought that was interesting...

Well she didn't mention any sort of time in the 11k so I don't know when it would be. But I think it would prob be around 11:15 or so because they walked right outside to leave and were shot at....
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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeThu Jun 30, 2016 6:13 pm

Adam Kyler said Kyle was with him in the cafeteria, and then he went up to the library to study.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeFri Jul 01, 2016 8:30 am

Archvile wrote:
Adam Kyler said Kyle was with him in the cafeteria, and then he went up to the library to study.

Yea he may have been there, but I don't know if he could be seen on the tape.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeFri Jul 01, 2016 11:12 am

I tried and I failed finding the three boys. It's basically impossible or I'm blind, cause, they might be scattered in a group for like 3 seconds and that's it.

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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeFri Jul 01, 2016 11:18 am

liquorvamp wrote:
I tried and I failed finding the three boys. It's basically impossible or I'm blind, cause, they might be scattered in a group for like 3 seconds and that's it.

You have more patience than me! I tried briefly and couldn't do it either
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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeFri Jul 01, 2016 11:11 pm

For a long time, my interest in Columbine was instant, as it happened, and was mostly because I identified strongly with Eric and Dylan (or rather, the image that much of the public had of them). I was in the same age range. I was bullied since I was a toddler - first by siblings and other kids that were around the family, later, on a much larger scale as soon as I started kindergarten - initially because I was a very shy and socially awkward child. I was suicidal for a long time, from a young age, and filled with self-hatred because of bullying, a screwed up childhood, my father and a few other people in my family dying by suicide... I was a teen parent, and while that was another thing that I was bullied for, it added another dimension to the case for me, as I imagined things from the perspective of the parents of the victims and the shooters. It was sort of like the first time I realized that I would never be able to protect my child 24/7, no matter how good of a parent I was, no matter how far we made it through infancy and childhood.

As others have said, it's like there is always something to keep things new. We're always finding things we missed, or new things are discovered or released. It's been really interesting to have followed this from the beginning, as a teenager, to now, as an adult with one of my own kids being a teenager, and looking at how my perspective has shifted over the years. My teenage son did a report on Columbine for school, and while we'd never talked about it other than maybe in passing over the years, he became totally fascinated with every aspect of it, so now it's a shared interest. I find it amazing to see how much kids still identify with this case, when so many of them weren't even born, or were just infants when it happened. It just has so many aspects to it that are relevant for interest and discussion that I think that it will forever be one of those sort of standout points in history.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Columbine?   Why Columbine? Icon_minitimeSat Jul 02, 2016 11:12 am

So much more information has been released about Eric and Dylan, that we don't see with other school attack cases. We even know what they ate for breakfast.
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