During 4/20: The 'Quiet' Phase

What do you think was happening between Eric and Dylan during their quiet period on 4/20? And, What do you think was going through their minds? Why had the quiet phase happened?

This topic might bring to light the immense complexity about the case because, what happened on that day wasn't as simple as other mass shootings, Columbine was so real and raw and their actions that day proves how they were just kids with guns.
To begin with, the bombs being a failure almost immediately was quite suspect to me in the beginning and it was almost too easy to grasp the fact that they honestly didn't know what they were doing. The amount of time they spent on it, fantasising on it, leading up to the one day where all it had to do was work, and it didn't. Do you think the failure of it may have compromised Eric's morale right from the beginning of the rampage? And do we all agree that Dylan was being such a loyal buddy to him, always pumping Eric's adrenaline up, reminding him that NBK was all that they wanted to do, encouraging him to carry on killing despite him probably knowing that Eric knew the whole thing already f*cked up.

Do you think what contributed to the quiet period where they idled and did a whole lot of NOTHING/shooting aimlessly, after the library activities, was the fact that reality hit them in the face real quick and they realised what they had done and seen was nothing like their fantasies, and they had just murdered a bunch of their peers, and for that they knew that they had to take themselves out? Lastly, I feel the one that digested all of the failure and reality of it was Eric, as his goal was more to blowing up the school and shooting people as opposed to Dylan who just wanted it all over and done with so he could kill himself. In a morbid partner-in-crime sort of way, Dylan really had Eric's back till the end.

Looking at the entire thing, the boys set-up their own failure. Alot proves that they weren't psychopathic killers and they were as ordinary and sober as can be to possibly shudder at their own damage, not having the balls to carry on killing people personally (knives), adrenaline loss incurred quickly to not bother breaking down classrooms to shoot more people, and lastly for the fact that the bomb plan failed. The quiet phase for me proves NBK was basically plan B and improvisation and for that, it altered the high really quickly and only lead to more reality thinking.

I agree with you that being faced with the reality of the situation was definitely a factor to the quiet period. I also think the two may have had a shred of hope that the bombs would still go off, so perhaps they were trying to waste some time to see if they would.

It is really eerie, them just walking around, shooting aimlessly. They could have done more damage and killed more people, but they didn't. They never stabbed anyone, either, despite bringing knives. I think that shows how they weren't psychopaths, because stabbing is personal and they would have to touch their victims and look them in the eyes.
Also, those were some of their last minutes alive and maybe they were taking in those last minutes, remembering their time on earth, or getting the courage to actually pull the trigger on themselves. Dylan was probably more ready than Eric. I feel like Eric might have been hoping the cops/SWAT would bust in and he would die by cop instead.

doomsdaydream wrote:

Dylan was probably more ready than Eric. I feel like Eric might have been hoping the cops/SWAT would bust in and he would die by cop instead.

Ooh very good one [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]!

ultraviolencelv wrote:

[b]
was the fact that reality hit them in the face real quick and they realised what they had done and seen was nothing like their fantasies, and they had just murdered a bunch of their peers, and for that they knew that they had to take themselves out?

This is a lot of my feeling on this topic. Eric talked over and over about putting people in Doom to figure out who was the best of the best, and killing people like killing zombies in Doom. To me I think when they and mainly Eric realized that these kids were not the zombies from Doom it was a real morale defeat. I think though that Dylan was probably crazy hyper and scary. I think Dylan was still all in but was not really the type to go somewhere on his own or grab Eric and lead him into another classroom. I do think he *followed* to some extent ( I know people don't like this term).

Lizpuff wrote:

To me I think when they and mainly Eric realized that these kids were not the zombies from Doom it was a real morale defeat. I think though that Dylan was probably crazy hyper and scary. I think Dylan was still all in but was not really the type to go somewhere on his own or grab Eric and lead him into another classroom. I do think he *followed* to some extent ( I know people don't like this term).

I agree. It was a morale defeat and it bummed him out even more to add on the initial defeat with the bombs which I assumed made Eric confused at first. And yeah Dylan was all in but only by Eric's side and helping him remain excited about killing. I think he knew that Eric lost his excitement.
Also, nice to see you on here, I've missed you hahah!

ultraviolencelv wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

To me I think when they and mainly Eric realized that these kids were not the zombies from Doom it was a real morale defeat. I think though that Dylan was probably crazy hyper and scary. I think Dylan was still all in but was not really the type to go somewhere on his own or grab Eric and lead him into another classroom. I do think he *followed* to some extent ( I know people don't like this term).

I agree. It was a morale defeat and it bummed him out even more to add on the initial defeat with the bombs which I assumed made Eric confused at first. And yeah Dylan was all in but only by Eric's side and helping him remain excited about killing. I think he knew that Eric lost his excitement.
Also, nice to see you on here, I've missed you hahah!

Thanks! I just usually never get on on the weekends....My kid keeps me too busy.

I don't know if I would be able to keep up my stamina if my buddy lost his fire either.

ultraviolencelv wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

To me I think when they and mainly Eric realized that these kids were not the zombies from Doom it was a real morale defeat. I think though that Dylan was probably crazy hyper and scary. I think Dylan was still all in but was not really the type to go somewhere on his own or grab Eric and lead him into another classroom. I do think he *followed* to some extent ( I know people don't like this term).

I agree. It was a morale defeat and it bummed him out even more to add on the initial defeat with the bombs which I assumed made Eric confused at first. And yeah Dylan was all in but only by Eric's side and helping him remain excited about killing. I think he knew that Eric lost his excitement.

Seriously if those two were to even think about making things go boom, they really should have studied more science, mechanics, and engineering. Which I'm for sure neither of them knew anything about.

aquillina wrote:

Seriously if those two were to even think about making things go boom, they really should have studied more science, mechanics, and engineering. Which I'm for sure neither of them knew anything about.

That's why I'm so confused! I mean it's a good thing it failed, but between the both of them, I can't believe all those time they took to make it not one of them suggested to look it up real quick, or go to an isolated open space for testing....

aquillina wrote:

ultraviolencelv wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

To me I think when they and mainly Eric realized that these kids were not the zombies from Doom it was a real morale defeat. I think though that Dylan was probably crazy hyper and scary. I think Dylan was still all in but was not really the type to go somewhere on his own or grab Eric and lead him into another classroom. I do think he *followed* to some extent ( I know people don't like this term).

I agree. It was a morale defeat and it bummed him out even more to add on the initial defeat with the bombs which I assumed made Eric confused at first. And yeah Dylan was all in but only by Eric's side and helping him remain excited about killing. I think he knew that Eric lost his excitement.

Seriously if those two were to even think about making things go boom, they really should have studied more science, mechanics, and engineering. Which I'm for sure neither of them knew anything about.

I keep wondering if the failure was their lack of knowledge on bombs, their over inflated egos thinking they knew what they were doing, lack of testing including putting the bombs together at the last minute, or lastly their lack of real funds. In reality it was probably all of this.

Lizpuff wrote:

I keep wondering if the failure was their lack of knowledge on bombs, their over inflated egos thinking they knew what they were doing, lack of testing including putting the bombs together at the last minute, or lastly their lack of real funds. In reality it was probably all of this.

It's a combination of all of it and the moment it failed right at the start, Columbine as we know it was just an improvised spree killing, and actually a pretty weak one. Imagine if they switched their movements abit. Say not enter the library but went into classrooms, the kitchen, bathrooms.

Does anyone feel that Eric may have been slightly, just a tiny bit afraid to die but he had Dylan there and the reality of the failure to help him pull the trigger instantaneously?

ultraviolencelv wrote:

Does anyone feel that Eric may have been slightly, just a tiny bit afraid to die but he had Dylan there and the reality of the failure to help him pull the trigger instantaneously?

Yes I do. I have posted this before but I think he was scared to die. And that he tried not to think about it. That is part of the reason I think he killed himself so quickly

My thoughts
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Aite checkin' it out.

If Eric was indeed scared to kill himself (meaning he probably doesn't want to) then, doesn't it seem selfish on Dylan's part because he ultimately wanted to die? If I chose to see it this way, It's like as if Eric got dragged into Dylan's suicide and NBK was just a wasteful mistake.

ultraviolencelv wrote:

If Eric was indeed scared to kill himself (meaning he probably doesn't want to) then, doesn't it seem selfish on Dylan's part because he ultimately wanted to die? If I chose to see it this way, It's like as if Eric got dragged into Dylan's suicide and NBK was just a wasteful mistake.

The way I think of it is that Dylan was the one who wanted to die. He wanted to kill others but he mainly wanted to kill himself. He walked into the school shouting "Today is the day we die" WE not "Today is the day you die". From the very get go Dylan was thinking about killing himself.

Eric on the other hand wanted to kill others. The zombies and sheep out there following everyone else. I think he knew that if he pulled this off he was going to have to die or face life in prison. But I don't think he wanted to think about it at all. He stayed focused on trying to blow the bomb and shooting others then when everything was crashing down, turned around and killed himself.

I always see people so surprised like "wow their shooting took less than an hour what gives??" and for me it is all the buildup of this huge affair leading to a massive letdown. I am not surprised at all it took less than an hour

Oh and I forgot the main part....was this selfish on Dylan's part? I guess in a way yes, but if Eric used Dylan for a partner to kill others that was also selfish

ultraviolencelv wrote:

Does anyone feel that Eric may have been slightly, just a tiny bit afraid to die but he had Dylan there and the reality of the failure to help him pull the trigger instantaneously?

I never really thought of that because I've always believed that death was their only way of escape. It brings me back to this fanfic I just read. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I you haven't read it yet I suggest you do. The author really tries to bring out the goodness in Eric.

Come to think of it I think they both knew they were going to die anyways by execution.

Okay so this is all very sad.

aquillina wrote:

I never really thought of that because I've always believed that death was their only way of escape. It brings me back to this fanfic I just read. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I you haven't read it yet I suggest you do. The author really tries to bring out to goodness in Eric.

Come to think of it I think they both knew they were going to die anyways by execution.

Ok I'll check it out.

Lizpuff wrote:

I think he knew that if he pulled this off he was going to have to die or face life in prison. But I don't think he wanted to think about it at all. He stayed focused on trying to blow the bomb and shooting others then when everything was crashing down, turned around and killed himself.

I always see people so surprised like "wow their shooting took less than an hour what gives??" and for me it is all the buildup of this huge affair leading to a massive letdown. I am not surprised at all it took less than an hour

Oh and I forgot the main part....was this selfish on Dylan's part? I guess in a way yes, but if Eric used Dylan for a partner to kill others that was also selfish

Very good insight on how fast Columbine was.

If that's the case then I feel if Eric was gonna go out dying he probably thought damn at least let me have what I wanted. But he didn't, his fantasy failed. Dylan however still got what he wanted.

Yeah they both used each other, they were both actually selfish.

Another thing too, aside from Eric possibly being afraid to die, I think it was more like he was afraid to kill himself, which leads back to the whole possible stalling and walking in hopes that a cop would shoot Eric so he'd die that way.

ultraviolencelv wrote:

Another thing too, aside from Eric possibly being afraid to die, I think it was more like he was afraid to kill himself, which leads back to the whole possible stalling and walking in hopes that a cop would shoot Eric so he'd die that way.

Yep I agree with this. A better way to put it. He wasn't so much afraid of dying (which I still think he was) but that he was afraid to kill himself.

ultraviolencelv wrote:

Does anyone feel that Eric may have been slightly, just a tiny bit afraid to die but he had Dylan there and the reality of the failure to help him pull the trigger instantaneously?

I do. I've tried to envision what may have happened during the quiet moments, and the scenario I keep coming back to is the two of them psyching one, or both, of them for the ultimate outcome (their own deaths) .

lilypadlane wrote:

I do. I've tried to envision what may have happened during the quiet moments, and the scenario I keep coming back to is the two of them psyching one, or both, of them for the ultimate outcome (their own deaths) .

And that is such a powerful connection two friends can have between one another, whether they actually talked, or just looked at each other, to prompt one another that this is it, this is our damage, it's almost time to die.

I think they were both afraid to die to an extent. I believe that's why Dylan was never able to kill himself on his own. If Dylan was so eager and excited to end his life that day then why didn't he go first? Evidence suggests he was still throwing pipe bombs while Eric blew his brains out, which leads me to believe that even he was stalling.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] but do you think he was stalling to make sure Eric took himself out first (which was always quite suspect to me...as if he didn't trust Eric)

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I think he was stalling, but I also don't think Eric gave him a warning before he offed himself. I don't think Dylan expected it, like he might have been waiting for Eric to give him direction which might be why he was still throwing pipe bombs. But at the same time I don't think he would have gone first. I think its like how the shooting played out, he didn't have it in him to commit suicide alone before NBK, and he also didn't have it in him to do NBK alone. It's possible when it came down to it even at the last hour, he was little afraid to go through with it, and once Eric just went ahead and did it there was no turning back unless he wanted to wait for the cops (which I don't think was his fantasy as much as it was Eric's) Of course this is all speculation, we'll likely never know how it really went down in those last moments.

Kiwik wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I think he was stalling, but I also don't think Eric gave him a warning before he offed himself. I don't think Dylan expected it, like he might have been waiting for Eric to give him direction which might be why he was still throwing pipe bombs. But at the same time I don't think he would have gone first. I think its like how the shooting played out, he didn't have it in him to commit suicide alone before NBK, and he also didn't have it in him to do NBK alone. It's possible when it came down to it even at the last hour, he was little afraid to go through with it, and once Eric just went ahead and did it there was no turning back unless he wanted to wait for the cops (which I don't think was his fantasy as much as it was Eric's) Of course this is all speculation, we'll likely never know how it really went down in those last moments.

sigh. It's so sad and grim. Dylan really depended on his buddy.
Yeah, I've always believed there was no warning when Eric took himself out first. It's the part where he waited and didn't do it first either. I wonder if they had an agreed signal which promted suicide time, and instead Eric did it ASAP or, there wasn't any and in a tragic way Eric just left Dylan hanging.

ultraviolencelv wrote:

Kiwik wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I think he was stalling, but I also don't think Eric gave him a warning before he offed himself. I don't think Dylan expected it, like he might have been waiting for Eric to give him direction which might be why he was still throwing pipe bombs. But at the same time I don't think he would have gone first. I think its like how the shooting played out, he didn't have it in him to commit suicide alone before NBK, and he also didn't have it in him to do NBK alone. It's possible when it came down to it even at the last hour, he was little afraid to go through with it, and once Eric just went ahead and did it there was no turning back unless he wanted to wait for the cops (which I don't think was his fantasy as much as it was Eric's) Of course this is all speculation, we'll likely never know how it really went down in those last moments.

sigh. It's so sad and grim. Dylan really depended on his buddy.
Yeah, I've always believed there was no warning when Eric took himself out first. It's the part where he waited and didn't do it first either. I wonder if they had an agreed signal which promted suicide time, and instead Eric did it ASAP or, there wasn't any and in a tragic way Eric just left Dylan hanging.

Well we know they had a hand signal for suicide. Heaven knows if they used any of the mentioned symbols that day but going off of what did actually happen I think it is a pretty safe bet the suicide signal was not used at all. I really don't think Dylan would have committed suicide first either. I think he did have an inkling of doubt about Eric committing suicide as well. And I think he wanted to be sure Eric would do it first. And like Kiwik said, Dylan talked about killing himself over and over and over. He signed a lot of journal entries with Goodbye... then a few weeks later he is "back again"

Keep in mind that Eric may have committed suicide just one split second before Dylan.

lasttrain wrote:

Keep in mind that Eric may have committed suicide just one split second before Dylan.

The speculation that have been settled with so far is that it wasn't that short nor long a period because of Eric's blood above the lighted up molotov cocktail wax which Dylan had to light up so, for it to be a split second, Eric would have to somehow wait for the cocktail to be lit up and then, he just went boom then Dylan was ready to go boom too.

EDIT: Allow me to correct myself that Eric's brain matter was found under the melted molotov wax or whatsoever, yes that was what I meant

Okay I'm totally confused. Who shot first and who lit that molotav cocktail?

aquillina wrote:

Okay this is just too confusing. I don't really know who shot first or who did what at the end.

Eric killed himself first afterwards Dylan. Dylan was lighting the molotov cocktail on the library table and while that was happening Eric may have shot himself or prolly like a few seconds after. I mean it's up for speculation how long after eric died that Dylan then shot himself.

ultraviolencelv wrote:

aquillina wrote:

Okay this is just too confusing. I don't really know who shot first or who did what at the end.

Eric killed himself first afterwards Dylan. Dylan was lighting the molotov cocktail on the library table and while that was happening Eric may have shot himself or prolly like a few seconds after. I mean it's up for speculation how long after eric died that Dylan then shot himself.

Okay this is just way too creepy to dwell upon.

Allow me to correct myself that Eric's brain matter was found under the melted molotov wax or whatsoever, yes that was what I meant up above.

this is a good thread for suicide reference should anyone want to make sure: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] not too off-topic from this thread as we've somehow talked about their possible last moments