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 Eased into killing

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PostSubject: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeSat Sep 03, 2016 6:06 pm

I've been meaning to discuss this for a long time but put it off because it's a very unpopular opinion.

I think that Dylan was "eased into killing". He barely fired his weapons outside, and when he did he just shot at people too far away or people he thought were already dead (Lance and Danny). Inside the school he shot at large groups of people running but didn't hit anyone (besides Munson who was shot in the ankle). I think after he shot Kyle in the library was when he finally loosened up. What do you guys think?

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeSat Sep 03, 2016 6:31 pm

I've always thought the same thing. Dylan didnt seem nearly into the idea of killing as Eric was. That's not to say he didnt want to kill, but it obviously took him a few minutes before he got "into the groove" of killing. One thing to take into account though is how shitty Dylan's guns were. Dylan had to drop a whole magazine filled with 9mm ammo because it wouldn't load right. The Tech-9 is notorious for jamming every 3-5 shots. Also sawing off his shotgun barrels made it terribly inaccurate. We aren't just talking a few inches off target either. I've seen it estimated that both boys shotguns were off sight by a margin of 3+ feet, which meant they had to be within "point blank" firing range to guarantee a hit. It may just be that Dylan was aware that his guns werent good enough to hit the people outside, so he didnt start shooting until he was in a more enclosed space with his victims.
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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeSat Sep 03, 2016 10:21 pm

Faaaaaalllllseeeeeee. Falseeeeee.

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeSat Sep 03, 2016 10:24 pm

You need to phrase your question correctly. Was he eased into killing prior to 4/20? Hell to the no. Was he jittery at the beginning ON 4/20? Yes. I know there were many accounts of blank shots, letting people go, he let quite a few go actually (Tim Kastle, that girl who was on the phone who shocked HIM when he saw her), but he did loosen up and he did all the howling and infact persuading TO ERIC to make sure Eric was still on board with the killing and he did it for Eric's sake; he needed him to finish the massacre with him so he could finally shoot himself dead. But didn't have to be eased, what kept him "motivated" was his suicide. If anyone needed extra easing that day it was Eric cause his lovely bomb plot failed and he was the one who was afraid to kill himself.

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeSat Sep 03, 2016 10:27 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
It may just be that Dylan was aware that his guns werent good enough to hit the people outside, so he didnt start shooting until he was in a more enclosed space with his victims.
There ya go.


Both boys were amateurs and they were jittery in the beginning that day. They were kids who envisioned something badass until the day came where they almost didn't know what they were doing and what to improvise. Think about it.

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeSun Sep 04, 2016 7:59 am

The only mag that was confirmed to have malfunctioned was the one found in the hallway which was almost empty. I think he just dropped the one outside because he was clumsy, considering he left a full mag inside his car. He was hooting and hollering beacuse he was trying to convince himself that he was having fun. In fact, I think that both boys were trying to convince themselves that they were having fun. They didn't find killing fun , and I think they were both heavily affected by it. Dylan hid that behind laughter and howling while Eric hid that befind methodical silence. But that didn't stop Eric, from the beginning he shot to kill, while Dylan cheered him on, shot out lockers and threw bombs (at the beginning I mean, untill they entered the library).

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeSun Sep 04, 2016 8:12 am

Dylan had no problem killing people. The only reason he didn't kill as many people as Eric is because he had the crappier selection of guns.

If I remember correctly, Eric was the one who purchased most the guns -- so it'd only be reasonable to assume he'd get the first pick of weaponry.

Dylan was not a follower or "lead" into the attack either, he was the one who came up with the idea and proposed it to Eric. Beforehand, Eric was talking about just killing Brooks Brown and talking about people he hated. Dylan directed Eric's hatred toward something.
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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeSun Sep 04, 2016 8:26 am

Ivan wrote:
Dylan had no problem killing people. The only reason he didn't kill as many people as Eric is because he had the crappier selection of guns.

If I remember correctly, Eric was the one who purchased most the guns -- so it'd only be reasonable to assume he'd get the first pick of weaponry.

Dylan was not a follower or "lead" into the attack either, he was the one who came up with the idea and proposed it to Eric. Beforehand, Eric was talking about just killing Brooks Brown and talking about people he hated. Dylan directed Eric's hatred toward something.


I'm not saying he was a follower, it just seems to me that he was more squeamish about actually killing people when it finally came down to it.

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeSun Sep 04, 2016 8:55 am

PotatoSallad wrote:
Ivan wrote:
Dylan had no problem killing people. The only reason he didn't kill as many people as Eric is because he had the crappier selection of guns.

If I remember correctly, Eric was the one who purchased most the guns -- so it'd only be reasonable to assume he'd get the first pick of weaponry.

Dylan was not a follower or "lead" into the attack either, he was the one who came up with the idea and proposed it to Eric. Beforehand, Eric was talking about just killing Brooks Brown and talking about people he hated. Dylan directed Eric's hatred toward something.


I'm not saying he was a follower, it just seems to me that he was more squeamish about actually killing people when it finally came down to it.
Well I don't think so and I've explained why I feel that way.
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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeSun Sep 04, 2016 10:19 am

PotatoSallad wrote:
In fact, I think that both boys were trying to convince themselves that they were having fun. They didn't find killing fun , and I think they were both heavily affected by it. Dylan hid that behind laughter and howling while Eric hid that befind methodical silence.

Dylan was not squeamish about killing people I promise you babygirl. He didn't need any easing. I won't deny this part though.

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Last edited by philosopher_king on Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:56 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : A response to a comment should be posted below not above the highlighted comment.)
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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeSun Sep 04, 2016 2:52 pm

ultraviolencelv wrote:
Dylan was not squeamish about killing people I promise you babygirl. He didn't need any easing. I won't deny this part though
PotatoSallad wrote:
In fact, I think that both boys were trying to convince themselves that they were having fun. They didn't find killing fun , and I think they were both heavily affected by it. Dylan hid that behind laughter and howling while Eric hid that befind methodical silence.
When quoting someone please put your response underneath their original comment, not above it. Thank you.

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeMon Sep 05, 2016 8:19 am

Quote :
When quoting someone please put your response underneath their original comment, not above it. Thank you.

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeMon Sep 05, 2016 9:11 am

I think that when outside and even inside Dylan seems preoccupied by the bombs. He was throwing pipe bombs everywhere more than shooting. I don't think it shows that he was less willing to kill others but that he was inexperienced and just wanting to have "fun"

Yea he was shocked by the girls on the phone but he did shoot at them. He just missed iirc. Leading back to him having bad guns.

The one fuzzy thing, some students in the commons report Dylan coming inside (While Eric was outside shooting) and shooting at them. Did he do this? If he did he didn't kill or even hit anyone at all but it would show him having balls enough to shoot right away at people.

I do believe it was Dylan's idea. I think Dylan had possible doubts about Eric even. But in then end they both wanted to kill.

I think the "are you with me" comment came from Dylan personally.

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeMon Sep 05, 2016 11:41 am

Is it a myth or not that Dylan deliberately missed people? That's the popular one I've read and I'm quite on the fence about it. I know his Mother believes that, about letting people go when Eric wasn't looking.

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeMon Sep 05, 2016 12:39 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I think that when outside and even inside Dylan seems preoccupied by the bombs.  He was throwing pipe bombs everywhere more than shooting.  I don't think it shows that he was less willing to kill others but that he was inexperienced and just wanting to have "fun"

Yea he was shocked by the girls on the phone but he did shoot at them.  He just missed iirc.  Leading back to him having bad guns.  

The one fuzzy thing, some students in the commons report Dylan coming inside (While Eric was outside shooting) and shooting at them.  Did he do this?  If he did he didn't kill  or even hit anyone at all but it would show him having balls enough to shoot right away at people.

I do believe it was Dylan's idea.  I think Dylan had possible doubts about Eric even.  But in then end they both wanted to kill.  

I think the "are you with me" comment came from Dylan personally.


Do you mean the 20lb bombs or their pipe bombs and bomblets? I don't think he cared at all about the propane bombs. Also he did come into the commons (nobody knows why), but he didn't shoot at anyone and just ran back outside and up the stairs to rejoin Eric. I think he missed people on purpose and just focused on scaring everyone by shooting and throwing pipe bombs. Also this is the first time I'm hearing he was shocked by the girl on the phone. As far as I know the girl on the phone ran into a bathroom before dylan even came around the corner and didn't even see her.

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeMon Sep 05, 2016 12:50 pm

There is an actual account of the girl at the payphone, an account by her mom too who was on the other line with her, and she said that Dylan saw her and he got shocked and stopped, and then yeah she bolted out of there. Gosh what is her name. Lemme try to find it

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeMon Sep 05, 2016 12:53 pm

her name is lauren:

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"I saw him and he saw me. He backed away" He was sort of caught off guard. I won't be surprised.

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeMon Sep 05, 2016 12:55 pm

ultraviolencelv wrote:
There is an actual account of the girl at the payphone, an account by her mom too who was on the other line with her, and she said that Dylan saw her and he got shocked and stopped, and then yeah she bolted out of there. Gosh what is her name. Lemme try to find it

This is a quote form acolumbinesite:
"A student in the counseling hall saw Dylan chase a group of students(9) east down the north hallway toward the main lobby. Eric wasn't far behind. Another student who was on one of the phones at a bank inside the lobby glanced up in time to see them coming: She saw the sleeve of Klebold's black coat and his TEC-DC9 firing toward the main entrance of the school. She had been talking to her mother but when she saw the gunman she dropped the phone and hid in a nearby restroom.(35) Dylan stopped near that bank of phones then ran back the way he came, west along the north hallway toward the library.(36) The frightened student crept out of the restroom and back to the phone where she whispered to her mother to come pick her up. The girl then escaped through the east exit of the school. Her mother's cell phone bill showed this call to have been made from 11:23 to 11:26 AM; the student estimated she'd been talking to her mother for about two minutes before she saw the shooter."

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeMon Sep 05, 2016 12:58 pm

"Brandi Helling described the individual as appearing surprised to see Lauren there and Lauren’s presence surprised the individual so bad that as he was running down the hall he actually came to a screeching halt. Brandi described the individuals footwear actually made some type of noise on the waxed floor as he stopped.

Brandi stated that she knew it was Dylan Klebold but she did not know his name until after she saw media reports. She knew Dylan previous to this incident as being a student but she didn’t personally know him or know his name. She described Dylan as having an unidentified weapon in his right hand. The weapon was pointed at the floor and he was looking at Lauren. He initially had a surprised expression on his face, then he started to smile. Simultaneously, at this point, Lauren had turned and also saw Dylan standing just south of her at which point she dropped the receiver of the phone and started to run towards Brandi. Brandi again saw several students running down the hallway toward the direction of the main office. Dylan looked toward these students, raised his weapon and then started firing down the hallway in the direction of the main office. Brandi stated after this, she didn’t turn back, she just ran north and exited the northwest doors just across from the counseling office. Brandi explained that as she was going out the doors, she heard the sound of gunfire and heard what sounded like either the pay telephones being shot or the glass doors near the main office being shot. She stated that when she exited the school, she could tell Lauren was running behind her, but once she got out of the school she lost sight of Lauren. Brandi ran north towards the baseball field and a friend of hers helped her over the fence. She then went to Clement Park where she later found Lauren.

In Brandi’s recollection, as she initially saw Dylan Klebold and after she observed him register Lauren there at the payphones, that she briefly made eye contact with him she knew she was in trouble and that’s why she turned and started to run out of the school. She later mentioned she couldn’t look at Dylan because she feared she would see him raise the weapon and shoot her and her only recourse was to attempt to get out of the building."

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeMon Sep 05, 2016 1:02 pm

ultraviolencelv wrote:
her name is lauren:

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"I saw him and he saw me. He backed away" He was sort of caught off guard. I won't be surprised.


Interasting, you learn something new every day.

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeMon Sep 05, 2016 1:17 pm

This shows Dylan wasn't...how do I say...he's not a murderer at heart. He's not James Holmes, Anders Breveik or Cho and I'll tell you why; those three I named had assassination at heart. They had a game plan, they were ready and every head they see, instant take out. They made sure not to waste any few seconds. Dylan, he was a kid. Infact he was fiddling about with his arsenal and just grinning to himself down the hallway, saw the girls and actually got shocked and hesitated for awhile. Now I don't know if he wasn't just quick enough to attack them when they took off running meaning inexperienced or, he just actually let them go.

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeMon Sep 05, 2016 1:36 pm

ultraviolencelv wrote:
This shows Dylan wasn't...how do I say...he's not a murderer at heart. He's not James Holmes, Anders Breveik or Cho and I'll tell you why; those three I named had assassination at heart. They had a game plan, they were ready and every head they see, instant take out. They made sure not to waste any few seconds. Dylan, he was a kid. Infact he was fiddling about with his arsenal and just grinning to himself down the hallway, saw the girls and actually got shocked and hesitated for awhile. Now I don't know if he wasn't just quick enough to attack them when they took off running meaning inexperienced or, he just actually let them go.


My thoughts exactly.

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeMon Sep 05, 2016 2:47 pm

ultraviolencelv wrote:
This shows Dylan wasn't...how do I say...he's not a murderer at heart. He's not James Holmes, Anders Breveik or Cho and I'll tell you why; those three I named had assassination at heart. They had a game plan, they were ready and every head they see, instant take out. They made sure not to waste any few seconds. Dylan, he was a kid. Infact he was fiddling about with his arsenal and just grinning to himself down the hallway, saw the girls and actually got shocked and hesitated for awhile. Now I don't know if he wasn't just quick enough to attack them when they took off running meaning inexperienced or, he just actually let them go.
From what I've read about Breivik (his own words, so take them with a grain of salt) he possessed a normal amount of empathy in his earlier life and although he had planned his attack for a long time, even training himself with meditation since 2006 in order to reduce his empathy and prepare to kill, immediately before he started shooting he thought to himself "I just don't want to do this."

He had hoped the bulk of the attack would be from the bomb he had placed to kill government officials but it didn't bring down the building like he had planned so his shooting attack on civilians became the main event. As he considered beginning the shooting, "100 voices in his head said don't do it" but he decided that he had no other choice and he did it anyway. He shouted at people that he was going to kill them to frighten them into the water so he didn't have to shoot them, hoping they would drown, and shot at approaching boats to keep them from being rescued. He claimed that he was in "fight or flight mode" and that his normal ethical boundaries were turned off but near the end of the rampage, he spared the lives of two younger children he came across as the boy burst into tears. He also said that he tried to call a police chief to give himself up but when the call was not taken, he decided to continue on until he was shot himself.

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I wonder if any of this would be similar to Eric or Dylan's experiences. We don't often get to hear from someone who went on a prolonged planned rampage and lived to tell about it. It's interesting that Breivik hoped that his bombing would do most of the killing and that he had to work on a strategy to dehumanize his victims so he could pull off his "mission," just like Eric. And he let a couple potential victims go unharmed as the adrenaline wore off, just like Eric and Dylan, which is very out of sync with the brutality of the rest of their attacks.
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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeMon Sep 05, 2016 3:01 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
From what I've read about Breivik (his own words, so take them with a grain of salt) he possessed a normal amount of empathy in his earlier life and although he had planned his attack for a long time, even training himself with meditation since 2006 in order to reduce his empathy and prepare to kill, immediately before he started shooting he thought to himself "I just don't want to do this."

He had hoped the bulk of the attack would be from the bomb he had placed to kill government officials but it didn't bring down the building like he had planned so his shooting attack on civilians became the main event. As he considered beginning the shooting, "100 voices in his head said don't do it" but he decided that he had no other choice and he did it anyway. He shouted at people that he was going to kill them to frighten them into the water so he didn't have to shoot them, hoping they would drown, and shot at approaching boats to keep them from being rescued. He claimed that he was in "fight or flight mode" and that his normal ethical boundaries were turned off but near the end of the rampage, he spared the lives of two younger children he came across as the boy burst into tears. He also said that he tried to call a police chief to give himself up but when the call was not taken, he decided to continue on until he was shot himself.

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I wonder if any of this would be similar to Eric or Dylan's experiences. We don't often get to hear from someone who went on a prolonged planned rampage and lived to tell about it. It's interesting that Breivik hoped that his bombing would do most of the killing and that he had to work on a strategy to dehumanize his victims so he could pull off his "mission," just like Eric. And he let a couple potential victims go unharmed as the adrenaline wore off, just like Eric and Dylan, which is very out of sync with the brutality of the rest of their attacks.

Wow this is very interesting thank you very much. What a coincidence I've just started reading a novel about him. This is eerily similar to Columbine; it was meant to be about a bombing at first, and then also being jittery about killing until the first shot had taken place then he got used to it.

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeMon Sep 05, 2016 3:05 pm

Does this mean that Anders, Eric and Dylan are actually not insane? edit: I mean I know, I believe that Eric and Dylan were not crazy. They were normal and that's why they had empathy? Nervousness? Had to psych themselves out? As opposed to say, James Holmes? See now James that dude was....whooh koo koo for cocoa puffs. I don't have much knowledge on Cho as to whether he was diagnosed with anything.

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeMon Sep 05, 2016 3:29 pm

I don't know much about Anders, but in all the reading up I've done on columbine and Eric and Dylan, I don't believe that they were insane. I think they were highly unstable, but they understood the difference between right and wrong and knew what they were doing was wrong even when they were still in the planning stages of it. I think they did have to get into a different mindset in order to carry out the shooting and I think they were both capable of empathy. For example, Eric claiming that he would imagine his victims as enemies from Doom shows that he had to mentally psyche himself into doing it, and distancing himself from his family in the months leading up to the shooting so it would be easier (in his mind) for them to live without him it shows that he was also capable of considering how his actions would affect those around him. Now I don't think Dylan cared as much about these things as Eric did, but him letting people like John Savage go proves that he did give at least give somewhat of a shit about others.
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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeMon Sep 05, 2016 3:36 pm

Also, and I know this is getting a little off topic, but I haven't read much about James Holmes or the aurora shooting since back when it first happened, but I was always under the impression that James Holmes' motive was infamy, and that was why he surrendered to the police instead of letting them take him out
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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeMon Sep 05, 2016 3:53 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
but I was always under the impression that James Holmes' motive was infamy, and that was why he surrendered to the police instead of letting them take him out
Seems so, but he's definitely mentally unstable. Also I don't recall him having a manifesto or something like that, though I did remember something about childish doodling or writing in a journal

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeMon Sep 05, 2016 5:09 pm

PotatoSallad wrote:
ultraviolencelv wrote:
There is an actual account of the girl at the payphone, an account by her mom too who was on the other line with her, and she said that Dylan saw her and he got shocked and stopped, and then yeah she bolted out of there. Gosh what is her name. Lemme try to find it

This is a quote form acolumbinesite:
"A student in the counseling hall saw Dylan chase a group of students(9) east down the north hallway toward the main lobby. Eric wasn't far behind. Another student who was on one of the phones at a bank inside the lobby glanced up in time to see them coming: She saw the sleeve of Klebold's black coat and his TEC-DC9 firing toward the main entrance of the school. She had been talking to her mother but when she saw the gunman she dropped the phone and hid in a nearby restroom.(35) Dylan stopped near that bank of phones then ran back the way he came, west along the north hallway toward the library.(36) The frightened student crept out of the restroom and back to the phone where she whispered to her mother to come pick her up. The girl then escaped through the east exit of the school. Her mother's cell phone bill showed this call to have been made from 11:23 to 11:26 AM; the student estimated she'd been talking to her mother for about two minutes before she saw the shooter."

Acolumbinesite has been around since 1999 but is rarely updated now and is riddled with errors.
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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeMon Sep 05, 2016 5:56 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
PotatoSallad wrote:
ultraviolencelv wrote:
There is an actual account of the girl at the payphone, an account by her mom too who was on the other line with her, and she said that Dylan saw her and he got shocked and stopped, and then yeah she bolted out of there. Gosh what is her name. Lemme try to find it

This is a quote form acolumbinesite:
"A student in the counseling hall saw Dylan chase a group of students(9) east down the north hallway toward the main lobby. Eric wasn't far behind. Another student who was on one of the phones at a bank inside the lobby glanced up in time to see them coming: She saw the sleeve of Klebold's black coat and his TEC-DC9 firing toward the main entrance of the school. She had been talking to her mother but when she saw the gunman she dropped the phone and hid in a nearby restroom.(35) Dylan stopped near that bank of phones then ran back the way he came, west along the north hallway toward the library.(36) The frightened student crept out of the restroom and back to the phone where she whispered to her mother to come pick her up. The girl then escaped through the east exit of the school. Her mother's cell phone bill showed this call to have been made from 11:23 to 11:26 AM; the student estimated she'd been talking to her mother for about two minutes before she saw the shooter."

Acolumbinesite has been around since 1999 but is rarely updated now and is riddled with errors.  

I thought so. Still has a lot of valid information tho.

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeMon Sep 05, 2016 8:16 pm

This might be a bit off topic but why does everyone keep saying Eric was stone-cold silent during the library murders? Sure he wasn't wooping it up like Dylan was but he wasn't a psycho killing machine either. He had a conversation with Bree and then let her live, whether by choice or because he was distracted by Dylan calling him over to torment Isaiah, is completely at odds with the whole they were in another reality theory.
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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeTue Sep 06, 2016 12:15 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
This might be a bit off topic but why does everyone keep saying Eric was stone-cold silent during the library murders? Sure he wasn't wooping it up like Dylan was but he wasn't a psycho killing machine either. He had a conversation with Bree and then let her live, whether by choice or because he was distracted by Dylan calling him over to torment Isaiah, is completely at odds with the whole they were in another reality theory.

Well...it's exactly that. Sure he wasn't totally silent but it's because he wasn't hooting and hollering, he went about the massacre very robotic and concentrated, made a few remarks too and that's it. Yeah he had that conversation with Bree and, that's pretty much it. I don't get what you mean. Are you trying to say he's not completely in a trance because he actually conversed with Bree? If that's the case, somehow he made the mistake of talking and questioning Bree too Long that she was humanised and emphatised enough to escape from dying. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] also said that the commotion going on over at Isaiah's side irritated him way too much to continue talking to Bree.

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeTue Sep 06, 2016 7:27 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
This might be a bit off topic but why does everyone keep saying Eric was stone-cold silent during the library murders? Sure he wasn't wooping it up like Dylan was but he wasn't a psycho killing machine either. He had a conversation with Bree and then let her live, whether by choice or because he was distracted by Dylan calling him over to torment Isaiah, is completely at odds with the whole they were in another reality theory.

He also was shouting military type orders out to Dylan. He certainly wasn't silent
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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeTue Sep 06, 2016 10:10 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
This might be a bit off topic but why does everyone keep saying Eric was stone-cold silent during the library murders? Sure he wasn't wooping it up like Dylan was but he wasn't a psycho killing machine either. He had a conversation with Bree and then let her live, whether by choice or because he was distracted by Dylan calling him over to torment Isaiah, is completely at odds with the whole they were in another reality theory.

He also was shouting military type orders out to Dylan.  He certainly wasn't silent


I heard he was shouting orders to Dylan too, but only in the commons (check the bombs, check the windows etc...).

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeTue Sep 06, 2016 10:16 am

PotatoSallad wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
This might be a bit off topic but why does everyone keep saying Eric was stone-cold silent during the library murders? Sure he wasn't wooping it up like Dylan was but he wasn't a psycho killing machine either. He had a conversation with Bree and then let her live, whether by choice or because he was distracted by Dylan calling him over to torment Isaiah, is completely at odds with the whole they were in another reality theory.

He also was shouting military type orders out to Dylan.  He certainly wasn't silent


I heard he was shouting orders to Dylan too, but only in the commons (check the bombs, check the windows etc...).

They had a whole entire set of arm commands too. I wonder if they ever used those.
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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeTue Sep 06, 2016 12:06 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] What do you mean? They had discussed hand signals beforehand? That's terrifying to be honest
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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeTue Sep 06, 2016 12:21 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] What do you mean? They had discussed hand signals beforehand? That's terrifying to be honest

Yes. Eric had a whole list of them. For example, Gun pointed to head=Suicide. It is quite bleak.
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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeTue Sep 06, 2016 12:21 pm

Here is the list:
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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeTue Sep 06, 2016 12:30 pm

Eric also made comments about glasses and the quote from Monty Python. He was far from silent - I think Dylan just had the more audible voice through the alarms and screams.
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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeTue Sep 06, 2016 12:38 pm

Yeah basically all of the above. For some reason I'm positive they used hand signals. I do feel that they did the suicide signal and then just went with it.

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeTue Sep 06, 2016 1:03 pm

ultraviolencelv wrote:
Yeah basically all of the above. For some reason I'm positive they used hand signals. I do feel that they did the suicide signal and then just went with it.

I can see them using the signals. I don't know that I think they used the suicide one though IDK I just always feel it was somewhat of a surprise to Dylan that Eric shot himself so quick. I don't think he saw it coming.
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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeTue Sep 06, 2016 1:09 pm

I think they might've used the suicide signal but Eric doing it ASAP was a surprise to Dylan yes. Like I think they both knew it was time but Dylan prolly thought they'd do it same time together.

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeTue Sep 06, 2016 2:56 pm

ultraviolencelv wrote:
I think they might've used the suicide signal but Eric doing it ASAP was a surprise to Dylan yes. Like I think they both knew it was time but Dylan prolly thought they'd do it same time together.
I agree. I think Eric had reached his breaking point with failure - the bombs not going off in the cafeteria, his broken nose from the gun recoil, all the police presence and the low body count- he just wanted it to be over. He probably gave the hand sign for suicide. I think Eric knew exactly what type of gunshot wound would cause immediate death and shot himself before Dylan knew what was happening. I wonder if Dylan chose the Tec-9 for his suicide because that was the way he wanted or couldn't manage the shotgun.He wasn't the most efficient handling guns as I believe he pointed a gun with the safety off directly at Eric on one of the basement tapes. Did he know that a  head gunshot wound from his Tec-9 would not cause instant death? I would really like to knew what thoughts went through their minds that day especially from the time they entered the library the first time until the end.
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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeTue Sep 06, 2016 3:11 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
ultraviolencelv wrote:
I think they might've used the suicide signal but Eric doing it ASAP was a surprise to Dylan yes. Like I think they both knew it was time but Dylan prolly thought they'd do it same time together.
I agree. I think Eric had reached his breaking point with failure - the bombs not going off in the cafeteria, his broken nose from the gun recoil, all the police presence and the low body count- he just wanted it to be over. He probably gave the hand sign for suicide. I think Eric knew exactly what type of gunshot wound would cause immediate death and shot himself before Dylan knew what was happening. I wonder if Dylan chose the Tec-9 for his suicide because that was the way he wanted or couldn't manage the shotgun.He wasn't the most efficient handling guns as I believe he pointed a gun with the safety off directly at Eric on one of the basement tapes. Did he know that a  head gunshot wound from his Tec-9 would not cause instant death? I would really like to knew what thoughts went through their minds that day especially from the time they entered the library the first time until the end.

I think he saw too many movies where the guy kills himself/someone else with a shot to the temple and thought it would do it. I don't think that Eric's manner of death had any impact. And yea he did point the guy at Eric many times. He had really no idea what he was doing.
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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeThu Sep 08, 2016 6:16 pm

I agree with everything PotatoSallad said and there is a lot of evidence for this view.

Dylan spared several people in the course of the massacre. Dylan Klebold stepped over Sean Graves and spoke to him but didn't shoot him. He backed away from Lauren Waterbury when she was standing right in his tracks. He told John Savage to flee.

Dylan also passed up opportunities to hurt large crowds of students. After Dylan stepped over Sean Graves, he could have fired into the cafeteria and killed more than 13 students in a few seconds but he did not. When he went into the school himself, he could have shot fleeing students in the back, but he only shot Stephanie Munson in the foot, which either shows poor aim or a conscious decision to shoot at the floor and at inanimate objects

Dylan discarded more ammunition than he fired. Dylan left 34 rounds in his car in the parking lot. He left a 50-round magazine outside with 40 rounds in it. He dropped another 7 shotgun shells near the entrance to the library. That's 83 bullets discarded to the 67 he fired. Makes you wonder if he and Eric did not have some tacit agreement to give up when the ammo ran out and Dylan was trying to hasten the end.

Though I do not think it is as simple as saying that Dylan alone was reluctant to kill. For example, Eric did not even go into the school until he had spent several minutes shooting at the soccer field and police outside, essentially guaranteeing that most had fled. There was nothing stopping Eric from going into the cafeteria like Dylan. Eric had to have known that he could shoot more students in the cafeteria than on the soccer field. Quite possibly it was cowardice on his part or fear of being jumped, but the desire of both to confront and kill students seems to have ebbed and flowed over the course of the hour.
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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeThu Sep 08, 2016 6:21 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I agree with everything PotatoSallad said and there is a lot of evidence for this view.

Dylan spared several people in the course of the massacre. Dylan Klebold stepped over Sean Graves and spoke to him but didn't shoot him. He backed away from Lauren Waterbury when she was standing right in his tracks. He told John Savage to flee.

Dylan also passed up opportunities to hurt large crowds of students. After Dylan stepped over Sean Graves, he could have fired into the cafeteria and killed more than 13 students in a few seconds but he did not. When he went into the school himself, he could have shot fleeing students in the back, but he only shot Stephanie Munson in the foot, which either shows poor aim or a conscious decision to shoot at the floor and at inanimate objects

Dylan discarded more ammunition than he fired. Dylan left 34 rounds in his car in the parking lot. He left a 50-round magazine outside with 40 rounds in it. He dropped another 7 shotgun shells near the entrance to the library. That's 83 bullets discarded to the 67 he fired. Makes you wonder if he and Eric did not have some tacit agreement to give up when the ammo ran out and Dylan was trying to hasten the end.

Though I do not think it is as simple as saying that Dylan alone was reluctant to kill. For example, Eric did not even go into the school until he had spent several minutes shooting at the soccer field and police outside, essentially guaranteeing that most had fled. There was nothing stopping Eric from going into the cafeteria like Dylan. Eric had to have known that he could shoot more students in the cafeteria than on the soccer field. Quite possibly it was cowardice on his part or fear of being jumped, but the desire of both to confront and kill students seems to have ebbed and flowed over the course of the hour.


Exactly!

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeFri Sep 09, 2016 1:43 am

I don't know [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. It's hard to think that it's just as simple as that; that Dylan had to be eased into killing. And why would he, why would he let people go? And now Eric had some reluctance too? Even if I were to settle on that I go back to how they were in the library and they most certainly weren't afraid executing kids face to face even, when most amateurs can't kill someone they look at or talk to. The only thing I can feel is that all the "sparing of people" and shooting aimlessly was at the beginning when I would understand if the high had not kicked in yet.
Here's a way to make it clearer; did Dylan kill anyone when Eric wasn't looking? The people that he shot, Eric was with him yes?

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeFri Sep 09, 2016 8:42 am

I tend to think the facts lasttrain pointed out are interesting but do not show any real remorse or anything on Dylan's part. Yes he did seem to spare some people. Tim Castle and Savage for example, but I in no way think that means he didn't want to kill. Maybe he just didn't want to kill everyone like Eric did. Maybe there were still some good people out there in Dylan's eyes as opposed to Eric who seemed to want everyone (Except for a few non mentioned) dead.

As for dropping ammo....I think it points more to his inexperience and nervousness. I think he forgot the clip in his car and fumbled and dropped the other ammo.

Sure he didn't shoot at all possible times that he had targets but I think at that point when he entered the cafe he had a mind to check the bombs.

And I also blame his missing victims not as sparing someone or trying to give warning type shots but to the fact that he was a terrible aim and probably high on adrenaline. Guy couldn't even really hit a bowling pin to save his own life.

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeFri Sep 09, 2016 10:01 am

Why does everyone say that they spared Tim Castle, as far as I know he ran outside, they shot at him and missed and he ran back inside. They just missed not spared him. Just bugs me.

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Eased into killing Icon_minitimeFri Sep 09, 2016 10:12 am

PotatoSallad wrote:
Why does everyone say that they spared Tim Castle, as far as I know he ran outside, they shot at him and missed and he ran back inside. They just missed not spared him. Just bugs me.

Tim was in the ceiling near the commons. Supposedly Dylan stuck his head up into the ceiling and saw Tim. Tim states he had a major opportunity to shoot him since he had no cover but that Dylan recognized him and didn't shoot him. He then said Dylan then simply went back down.
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