Eric's Therapy Sessions

Do you guys think the information will ever be released? Do we know if Dr. Albert was ever deposed?

Quote :

Harris' therapy private, experts say
Published September 20, 2000 at 6:10 p.m.


If Eric Harris ever told his therapist he wanted to kill specific people, his doctor had a duty to report it to protect their lives.

But psychologist Kevin Albert, who treated Harris before the 18-year-old's deadly rampage at Columbine High School, had no duty to tell anyone if Harris confided that he wanted to kill everybody at his school, lawyers and psychologists said Tuesday.

Harris and classmate Dylan Klebold killed 13 people and wounded more than 20 others before taking their own lives April 20, 1999.

Law enforcement authorities have said the two gunmen intended to destroy the school and kill everyone in it and that they apparently fired on students and faculty at random.

"If there is any information forthcoming from any patient, having to do with a threat to another, then there is no confidentiality — you must warn the intended victim," said Denver psychologist Jeff Dolgan, who heads the state Board of Examiners that licenses psychologists.

"But not if the patient says, 'I'm going to get those people at school,"' Dolgan said.

He said a patient must name "a specific intended victim — such as 'I want to kill my mother,"' to trigger a therapist's duty to report the threat.

No one knows what Harris told Albert. The 47-year-old psychologist practices in Littleton and has a doctorate in psychology from the University of Denver. According to federal court documents, Albert has refused to give Harris' parents the treatment records.

Albert has not returned telephone calls from the Denver Rocky Mountain News.

Albert's treatment of Harris became an issue recently in lawsuits filed over the killings. Sixteen families of those who died or were injured have filed suits, naming more than three dozen defendants so far. The defendants include government agencies, teachers and the parents and friends of the two young gunmen, among others.

A judge may have to review Albert's treatment records privately to determine whether they should become evidence in the lawsuits, according to Christopher Mueller, a University of Colorado law professor and expert on evidence and court procedures.

Albert likely wasn't the only therapist who treated Harris, but he is the only one publicly named. Harris was known to be taking a prescription medication used to treat depression or obsessive-compulsive disorder. Psychologists, such as Albert, are not medical doctors and cannot prescribe medications.

Therapists often resist disclosing anything about their clients or their treatment, in court or even to a young patient's parents. One reason is that disclosing the information might hurt the patient, the parents or others involved in the patient's life, according to psychologist Lisa Kaley-Isley, who heads the legislative committee of the Colorado Psychological Association.

Also, she said, successful therapy depends on a patient being able to trust the therapist.

"It is creating that safe environment which is what enables people to be able to talk," she said.

However, she said, psychologists usually tell patients in their first session that there are exceptions to that confidentiality. Among other things, therapists must report child abuse, must take action if a patient is too gravely disabled to care for himself or herself and may be ordered by a judge to testify or turn over records, she said.

Mueller said the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 1999 that therapists may not be compelled to disclose things about their patients, unless certain exceptions apply such as the duty to warn others of threats.

The Harris case is complicated by the fact that Eric Harris turned 18 shortly before the shootings. Absent a specific threat, no one generally has the right to know what goes on in an adult's therapy, according to Rick Stewart, president of the Colorado Psychological Association.

But Stewart said the law isn't black and white. Even a threat that doesn't include specifically identified individuals might require a therapist to report it in some situations, he said.

He told of a Colorado case in which a patient told his therapist, "I want to kill cops," and then killed a police officer who showed up at a convenience store where the patient was acting strangely.

Stewart said the Colorado Supreme Court ruled that the question of whether the therapist had to report the man's statement should be answered in a trial, but the case was settled.

Another issue in the Harris case is whether he still has the right to confidentiality with his therapist even though he has died.

Mueller said the right to confidentiality continues after death, and that Harris' therapist is ethically obliged to fight to protect it.

"The privilege doesn't end with death," Mueller said. "And a patient cannot waive it by committing murders."

If Eric's therapist has avoided releasing these files for so long already, I doubt they'll ever be released in our lifetime.

Eric was proud of his Kill Mankind speciocidal thoughts. I'm sure he joked about them with his therapist in between all the talk about his childhood and family.

They say that people who commit suicide often joked about death while they were alive. I think you can tell a lot about a person by the things they joke about.

I don't think they'll ever release the information if his therapist has successfully maintained that confidentiality agreement throughout all these years. It is likely that Eric was prescribed the drugs by a psychiatrist/medical examiner who maybe saw him once or twice in all that time, whereas the rest of his actual treatment was being done by Dr Albert. I am very curious as to what Eric actually told him, or if the focus on the therapy was more on his overcrowded mind than it was on his desire to harm others. I have always been told that the confidentiality agreement must be broken as soon as there is substantial reason to assume that the case involves harm to self or to others. Whenever there's a reasonable suspicion that the patient may present a danger of violence to others, or is likely to harm themselves unless preventive measures are taken, the therapist is allowed/required to break the agreement of confidentiality. I have never heard it be said that they must specify the threat and actually name individuals in this case at all.

When his therapist asked, "Do you have any homicidal thoughts?" Maybe Eric replied, "Well, they're not really homicidal, they're more like genocidal... no, that's not the right word, because I don't just want to kill one particular race. I want to kill the human species. Yes, Dr. Albert, I'm feeling a little speciocidal right now."

Yes, that'd be a distinct possibility as well: that Eric generalised his homicidal feelings to the extent where it sounded like he was just terribly frustrated with the human race as a whole. Lots of teenagers express the same kind of thing, particularly in combination with comments that sound like they're searching for their own identity and their place in the world. It'd be so illuminating to read through his therapy files to see where the focus of his therapy really lay. If Eric's own words are to be believed, he was given medication to "stop thinking about so many things and to stop getting angry". It is so strange that he was given Luvox to combat this, though, because some of the side-effects of that drug are 'racing thoughts' and 'hypomania followed by aggression' and 'suicidal or antisocial ideation'. Not really the kind of thing you'd give someone who already had trouble shutting his brain up and who'd already reported feeling homicidal, now is it?

From a personal perspective I'm really intrigued by this business of Eric with his Therapist. At the moment I'm in the final stages of my own training to become a Counsellor.
I'm not a psychologist and am not all that familiar with the confidentiality / boundary agreements Kevin Albert may have had with Eric back in the late 90's.
I can only speak from a personal perspective, but in Counselling we usually draw up some kind of contract or working agreement together and an important part of that surrounds confidentiality and when and how we would deal with this if it needed to be broken. I'm sure Eric may have been informed of something similar in terms of how confidentiality may be handled in the setting he was in.

From the news article it sounds like Kevin Albert did have a duty to report anything Eric said in relation to a desire to kill someone. It doesn't sound too specific but it's also mentioned that there would have been a duty to report a threat on another person.

I find myself wondering if Eric ever mentioned anything related to a desire to seriously harm or kill others. He may have talked about anger or he may have talked about very general life events that he was going through or had gone through in the past, the list could be endless. If therapy was something he felt like he had to do it brings into question how revealing and honest he may have been in such sessions.
The details of his therapy sessions have always captured my personal interest. I do wonder what Eric had spoken about. But I guess it's another thing that we could speculate on all day.
I feel that in this instance whatever he spoke about could tell us a great deal more about him or at least give us some more insight. The only thing we wouldn't know is if he was actually meaning what he'd said or if it was all just a charade.

queenfarooq wrote:

From a personal perspective I'm really intrigued by this business of Eric with his Therapist. At the moment I'm in the final stages of my own training to become a Counsellor.
I'm not a psychologist and am not all that familiar with the confidentiality / boundary agreements Kevin Albert may have had with Eric back in the late 90's.
I can only speak from a personal perspective, but in Counselling we usually draw up some kind of contract or working agreement together and an important part of that surrounds confidentiality and when and how we would deal with this if it needed to be broken. I'm sure Eric may have been informed of something similar in terms of how confidentiality may be handled in the setting he was in.

From the news article it sounds like Kevin Albert did have a duty to report anything Eric said in relation to a desire to kill someone. It doesn't sound too specific but it's also mentioned that there would have been a duty to report a threat on another person.

I find myself wondering if Eric ever mentioned anything related to a desire to seriously harm or kill others. He may have talked about anger or he may have talked about very general life events that he was going through or had gone through in the past, the list could be endless. If therapy was something he felt like he had to do it brings into question how revealing and honest he may have been in such sessions.
The details of his therapy sessions have always captured my personal interest. I do wonder what Eric had spoken about. But I guess it's another thing that we could speculate on all day.
I feel that in this instance whatever he spoke about could tell us a great deal more about him or at least give us some more insight. The only thing we wouldn't know is if he was actually meaning what he'd said or if it was all just a charade.

I agree Queenfarooq, I would love to see Dr. Albert's notes on Eric, and have mentioned it several times already in this forum. I am also confused by the article cited above. As I understand it, "duty to protect," and "duty to warn" as established by the Tarasoff case, would require Dr. Albert to have notified Eric's parents (as a minor) AND the school authorities if Eric ever said anything about seriously wanting to harm his classmates and/or damage/destroy the school. Even if Eric had made any suicidal ideations apparent in therapy, the doctor would be required to notify the parents. Maybe Eric did vocalize those suicidal thoughts and the parents were notified, hard to tell. I guess we will never know. Dr. Albert's therapy notes are one of the main things (besides the Basement Tapes) that I would love to be able to look at!

Don't count on any release of info from the Dr..

It's likely the Dr. had zero clue of what was pending, much less what Eric was capable of. Eric self admittedly was the master of disguise.

In my own personal life I experienced a 6 year old pulling the wool over a renowned child psychologist for the better part of a year.

Eric's doc may have eventually pegged things, but it's more conceivable to me that at the point of NBK, the Dr. was still far from seeing Eric in his entirety.

I'm in the final stages of becoming a licensed psychologist, so I'll try to make clear the duty Dr. Albert had in reporting possible dangers to others- (none of the laws regarding this have changed since Eric's time in therapy)

As a psychologist, we have the duty to warn others of harm only if a person's name is specifically stated as a target by our client. Also, if a client has a PLAN to harm a general population (such as CHS), we have a duty to warn. IF eric mentioned CHS at all, he would have had to disclose his exact plan and means to do so in order for Dr. Albert to report it. There would be no duty to report if Eric had said something like "I want to blow up the school". He would have had to say "I have a gun and I want to shoot so and so" or "I have a bomb and will blow up the school", indicting a specific target or a plan and means to harm a general population.

Even as a minor, everything Eric says in therapy is confidential and may not be shared with anyone including his parents. Unless, there had been documentation signed before hand by the doctor and Eric giving the doctor permission to disclose certain information to his parents.

I don't know about you all but I kinda got the vibe that there were more than a few red flags in Albert's notes, and they didn't release the notes for the sake of Albert's practice.

I also am under the impression that Eric wanted to somehow seek help; that him checking the 'Homicidal Thoughts' box was just another example of him trying to get out of NBK. I think he somehow managed to convey his thoughts improperly as if these were invasive thoughts and got prescribed OCD meds instead.

blackholesun wrote:

I don't know about you all but I kinda got the vibe that there were more than a few red flags in Albert's notes, and they didn't release the notes for the sake of Albert's practice.

I also am under the impression that Eric wanted to somehow seek help; that him checking the 'Homicidal Thoughts' box was just another example of him trying to get out of NBK.  I think he somehow managed to convey his thoughts improperly as if these were invasive thoughts and got prescribed OCD meds instead.

I've always wondered whether shrinks turn to OCD as a kind of catch-all diagnosis when they can't figure out what's going on.

I mean, I was diagnosed with OCD, myself. And I only wash my hands about ten or fifteen times a day.

LPorter101 wrote:

blackholesun wrote:

I don't know about you all but I kinda got the vibe that there were more than a few red flags in Albert's notes, and they didn't release the notes for the sake of Albert's practice.

I also am under the impression that Eric wanted to somehow seek help; that him checking the 'Homicidal Thoughts' box was just another example of him trying to get out of NBK.  I think he somehow managed to convey his thoughts improperly as if these were invasive thoughts and got prescribed OCD meds instead.

I've always wondered whether shrinks turn to OCD as a kind of catch-all diagnosis when they can't figure out what's going on.

I mean, I was diagnosed with OCD, myself. And I only wash my hands about ten or fifteen times a day.

I'm sure they would. After a few sessions with a shrink, I was diagnosed with the typical depression and anxiety and prescribed Lexapro & later Prozac. It took her 3 years or so to realize that all my destructive behaviors were not typical of depression and anxiety, and that I was actually a teenager developing antisocial/narcissistic traits. Of course by that time, I had gotten caught stealing and was a habitual drug-user as well as a full-fledged bulimic, so I was beyond her help.

Mental health is a tricky issue; I think psychiatrists are quicker to turn to a "lighter" diagnosis, than to suspect something as serious as a personality disorder. I can see why Eric would've received the quick diagnosis of OCD, but had Eric talked more, I think it would've been clear to Albert that OCD was not the cause.

It doesn't matter what Eric's diagnosis had been......because they would have still pushed antidepressants on him.  Antidepressants (especially SSRI's) are so overly prescribed, it's ridiculous.

I wonder what he talked to his therapist about. I guess we will never know, but he did go to a therapist so maybe deep down he wanted help.

I wonder this too but maybe he didn't really want help? Like, maybe he thought it was a good front to put on in order to execute his plans for NBK

I have said this before, but I think at first Eric did want help. He was honest on his forms and started therapy and meds. But I think later on he thought it wasn't helping. He had adverse reactions to the meds and therapy doesn't tell you want to do, it is supposed to help you figure it out yourself. I think at that point Eric decided he was beyond help. So I think whenever that thought came into his mind, his therapy records would be a moot point because he would have been lying or saying whatever it took to get people to think he was ok.

I wonder just how in depth Eric actually went with the good Doctor? I want to know if he downplayed his true feelings so he didn't sound any warnings bells, OR if he shared certain aspects of himself in the attempt of gaining someone's insight, understanding and eventually help? What he may or may not have said during those sessions would be a new look at what his head space was like during the months leading up to the shooting. Eric may have lied, or he might have wanted help and was truthful. Sadly like the Basement tapes, these Therapy notes will likely never see the light of day. As I am certain Kevin Albert would make damn sure they were never released if he felt he may have been sued over something he failed to report.

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I recommend you to read these.

Those reviews are very interesting and disturbing.

According to federal court documents,Dr. Albert has refused to give Harris' parents the treatment records. If that's not a red flag...
Albert likely wasn't the only therapist who treated Eric , but he is the only one publicly named. Eric was known to be taking a prescription medication used to treat depression or obsessive-compulsive disorder. Psychologists, such as Albert, are not medical doctors and cannot prescribe medications.

Eric told in the basement tapes not to blame psychologists but screw him cause he fooled himself.

Four pages and only 1 good review. That's mind-blowing.
To think of all the mental health professionals that Eric could have gone to in the Denver area. Had he actually wanted to get well, he'd have never had a chance.

thelmar wrote:

Four pages and only 1 good review. That's mind-blowing.
To think of all the mental health professionals that Eric could have gone to in the Denver area. Had he actually wanted to get well, he'd have never had a chance. 

I really, really have to wonder how much Eric told him and how little Dr. Albert actually paid it any mind.

I wonder how different things might have been if Eric had a good therapist, or if they'd even be different at all.

There’s an article about Kevin Albert written in April 2018. “Families Allege Columbine Cover-Up
By DEREK THOMSON”
He charges money for the report and for giving you the report. And to be honest I feel for the Harrises.
I see why they don't want speak.

I can't believe that Dr Albert was allowed to continue to practice after Columbine. If he has bad ratings now and what we read. I bet same happened in the 90s he's a fraud.

QuestionMark wrote:

thelmar wrote:

Four pages and only 1 good review. That's mind-blowing.
To think of all the mental health professionals that Eric could have gone to in the Denver area. Had he actually wanted to get well, he'd have never had a chance. 

I really, really have to wonder how much Eric told him and how little Dr. Albert actually paid it any mind.

Exactly! But as I said before there was no way in hell he was going to release ANYTHING that could/would have made him liable in any shape, way, or form.

My doctor wants to put me on medication to stop thinking about so many things and to stop getting angry. pg. 26007

I realize we'll never know, but statements like these in his journal and all the things he checked about his mental state on his Diversion intake forms make me think that maybe Eric actually wanted help. He was telling people, hey, I have these problems, these concerns and I realize they are issues in my life. It makes me wonder how much he actually revealed to Albert.

I've also wondered how Eric felt about the medication he was taking. He was 17/18 when he was in therapy and presumably his parents weren't watching to make sure he took his pill every day. Since he actually was taking it (based on his toxicology report at autopsy), I wonder why. Was it with the hope that it would help him, was it out of obligation, was he really misusing it (as many have claimed, yet I haven't seen a shred of evidence to indicate it)?
So much to ponder...

thelmar wrote:

My doctor wants to put me on medication to stop thinking about so many things and to stop getting angry. pg. 26007

I realize we'll never know, but statements like these in his journal and all the things he checked about his mental state on his Diversion intake forms make me think that maybe Eric actually wanted help. He was telling people, hey, I have these problems, these concerns and I realize they are issues in my life. It makes me wonder how much he actually revealed to Albert.

I've also wondered how Eric felt about the medication he was taking. He was 17/18 when he was in therapy and presumably his parents weren't watching to make sure he took his pill every day. Since he actually was taking it (based on his toxicology report at autopsy), I wonder why. Was it with the hope that it would help him, was it out of obligation, was he really misusing it (as many have claimed, yet I haven't seen a shred of evidence to indicate it)?
So much to ponder...

Brooks was the one that claimed Eric went on and off the pill at his will. Take that with a grain of salt of course

Lizpuff wrote:

thelmar wrote:

My doctor wants to put me on medication to stop thinking about so many things and to stop getting angry. pg. 26007

I realize we'll never know, but statements like these in his journal and all the things he checked about his mental state on his Diversion intake forms make me think that maybe Eric actually wanted help. He was telling people, hey, I have these problems, these concerns and I realize they are issues in my life. It makes me wonder how much he actually revealed to Albert.

I've also wondered how Eric felt about the medication he was taking. He was 17/18 when he was in therapy and presumably his parents weren't watching to make sure he took his pill every day. Since he actually was taking it (based on his toxicology report at autopsy), I wonder why. Was it with the hope that it would help him, was it out of obligation, was he really misusing it (as many have claimed, yet I haven't seen a shred of evidence to indicate it)?
So much to ponder...

Brooks was the one that claimed Eric went on and off the pill at his will.  Take that with a grain of salt of course

True.

Lizpuff wrote:

Brooks was the one that claimed Eric went on and off the pill at his will.  Take that with a grain of salt of course

It was also mentioned by the attorney in the Taylor vs. Solvay lawsuit. I believe his name was DeCamp. He said Eric had figured out the mechanism of the drug and would double and triple his dose, go off and on it to fuel his rage. But if this was true, why did Eric have a therapeutic level of the drug in his body when he died? And from what little I know about these medications, you need to be on them for a few weeks before they reach a therapeutic level. I could be wrong on that but that's what I've gathered in my research.

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Maybe he was awake until late for preparations
And decided to take them before going 2 bed?
How many hours does it take until the drugs are gone from the system?( Sry if my English sucks)

Rebbie556 wrote:

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Maybe he was awake until  late  for preparations
And decided to take them before going 2 bed?
How many hours does it take until the drugs are  gone from the system?( Sry if my English sucks)

From what I understand, in order for a blood test to show that you have a therapeutic level of the drug in your system, you need to be on the drug for a few weeks.

That is, you can't just take a pill of Luvox for the first time ever and take a blood test hours later and have it be at a therapeutic level. You have to take the same dose repeatedly over many days (two to three weeks from what I've read) before it will be at a therapeutic level because the drug builds up in the body over time.

To me, this means that Eric had to have been taking the same dose of medication for a few weeks before the attack. If so, that doesn't seem like he was misusing it.

Again, I don't claim any expertise in this topic. This is something I've always puzzled over and have tried to learn as much as I can, but pharmacology is not my background so it's possible I don't understand things as clearly as I think I do

And, your English is fine

The question of who actually prescribed medication to Eric has always puzzled me, like one of the many unsolved mysteries of the Columbine incident. The answer could be as simple as his family doctor, perhaps on the advice of Dr. Albert, both of whom, not being psychiatrists, couldn't have fully known the effects of the drugs.

Another question is why the Harrises ended up with Albert, even though he seems to deal exclusively (and not particularly well, either) with divorcing couples. He wouldn't be my first pick for a juvenile delinquent with aggression issues. We know that they inquired about the whole trench coat thing and Albert shrugged it off as "just a coat." It makes you wonder what actually went on in these sessions and if Albert listened to Eric at all, because as we know Eric adopted the coat as he became more and more marginalized, losing friends, his behavior becoming more outlandish. Even if Albert couldn't conceive or detect Eric's mass murder plans, he should have at least recognized that the boy was becoming lonelier and weirder by the week.

I also believe that the Harris have lied about the extent of their knowledge of Eric's issues. They said both in the Diversion files and to Tom Mauser that they never witnessed Eric's angry behavior but we know that to be false: Sue Klebold wrote that well before the van incident, Eric had an outburst at a soccer match and his parents whisked him away to calm him down, as if it was something that they were used to. They knew he was making bombs. They likely knew of his threats to Brooks Brown as well.
Even in the very morning of 4/20, they lied: I hardly think that Wayne's reason for thinking Eric might be involved in the shooting was just him being part of the Trench Coat Mafia (which he wasn't). A more truthful answer would've been "well, we know he's nuts, he's made death threats before, he likes to build bombs, our house smells of gasoline, we've found gun parts in his bedroom, an ominous drawing in our living room and, let me think, oh yes, an audio recording on the kitchen table of him exposing a genocidal plan".

The coat thing befuddles me too. Because Nate called that day and said that the shooters had a black trenchcoat and Tom is trying to find Dylan’s . But dylan had 2. So we were both of the coats gone? I also don’t know why Nate suspected it was dylan. That’s interesting and something no one really talks about

Screamingophelia wrote:

The coat thing befuddles me too. Because Nate called that day and said that the shooters had a black trenchcoat and Tom is trying to find Dylan’s . But dylan had 2. So we were both of the coats gone? I also don’t know why Nate suspected it was dylan. That’s interesting and something no one really talks about

By that time, people, even TV reporters, already knew that the killers were wearing trench coats from witness reports - cue the whole "trench coat mafia" hysteria in the following days. What strikes me, however, is that the Harrises did not reveal the vast amount of way more important stuff that led them to realize that Eric was involved with the shooting. I mean, the guy left a f...cking drawing with CHS, a bomb and the word "CLUE", they surely entered his room and found bomb and gun parts all over the place, and probably they played the Nixon tape. Why did they lie? What were they thinking in those frantic moments? They were extremely uncooperative when officers arrived, already on the defensive, while the Klebolds were much more forthcoming. Did the Harrises think that by hiding evidence, in the panic of the moment, that they could somehow "fix it all", still keep the situation under wraps as they had done many times in the past?

Wayne's call mentioning the TCM is definitely a curiosity. Genocidal plan is a bit strong. A murderous plan, for sure.

I figured some of their actions were because they didn't know he would commit suicide. What little we know of the Nixon tape doesn't mention that. So they would've thought he needed a defense.

Also I am not clear whether the gun barrel left in his room was from the shotgun or from the bb gun.

Mein Gott wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

The coat thing befuddles me too. Because Nate called that day and said that the shooters had a black trenchcoat and Tom is trying to find Dylan’s . But dylan had 2. So we were both of the coats gone? I also don’t know why Nate suspected it was dylan. That’s interesting and something no one really talks about

By that time, people, even TV reporters, already knew that the killers were wearing trench coats from witness reports - cue the whole "trench coat mafia" hysteria in the following days. What strikes me, however, is that the Harrises did not reveal the vast amount of way more important stuff that led them to realize that Eric was involved with the shooting. I mean, the guy left a f...cking drawing with CHS, a bomb and the word "CLUE", they surely entered his room and found bomb and gun parts all over the place, and probably they played the Nixon tape. Why did they lie? What were they thinking in those frantic moments? They were extremely uncooperative when officers arrived, already on the defensive, while the Klebolds were much more forthcoming. Did the Harrises think that by hiding evidence, in the panic of the moment, that they could somehow "fix it all", still keep the situation under wraps as they had done many times in the past?

It seems like Eric’s family had an inkling it could be him but Dylan’s family was dumbfounded

thelmar wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

Brooks was the one that claimed Eric went on and off the pill at his will.  Take that with a grain of salt of course

It was also mentioned by the attorney in the Taylor vs. Solvay lawsuit. I believe his name was DeCamp. He said Eric had figured out the mechanism of the drug and would double and triple his dose, go off and on it to fuel his rage. But if this was true, why did Eric have a therapeutic level of the drug in his body when he died? And from what little I know about these medications, you need to be on them for a few weeks before they reach a therapeutic level. I could be wrong on that but that's what I've gathered in my research.

Regardless as to whether or not Eric wasn't taking the drugs properly, they very clearly weren't doing anything to reduce his aggression.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] "Brooks was the one that claimed Eric went on and off the pill at his will. Take that with a grain of salt of course"

Brooks can claim everything.

Rebbie556 wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  "Brooks was the one that claimed Eric went on and off the pill at his will.  Take that with a grain of salt of course"

Brooks can claim everything.

AND he pretty much has over the years.

Why didn't Brooks Brown tell Eric, hey bro you have to keep on your meds, otherwise you won't feel right. He should've said that or something similar. He should've encouraged him to keep on his meds.

bradt93 wrote:

Why didn't Brooks Brown tell Eric, hey bro you have to keep on your meds, otherwise you won't feel right. He should've said that or something similar. He should've encouraged him to keep on his meds.

Because Brooks was not friends with Eric. No matter what he wrote or says he just wasn't. They were not close. And even if they were close Brooks did not care enough about Eric to ever say anything like that to him. On top of that if Brooks did say that, knowing what we do know about Eric, do you think he would have listened?

And this is all based on the assumption that Brooks was telling the truth about the meds in the first place

Mein Gott wrote:

The question of who actually prescribed medication to Eric has always puzzled me, like one of the many unsolved mysteries of the Columbine incident. The answer could be as simple as his family doctor, perhaps on the advice of Dr. Albert, both of whom, not being psychiatrists, couldn't have fully known the effects of the drugs.

Another question is why the Harrises ended up with Albert, even though he seems to deal exclusively (and not particularly well, either) with divorcing couples. He wouldn't be my first pick for a juvenile delinquent with aggression issues. We know that they inquired about the whole trench coat thing and Albert shrugged it off as "just a coat." It makes you wonder what actually went on in these sessions and if Albert listened to Eric at all, because as we know Eric adopted the coat as he became more and more marginalized, losing friends, his behavior becoming more outlandish. Even if Albert couldn't conceive or detect Eric's mass murder plans, he should have at least recognized that the boy was becoming lonelier and weirder by the week.

I also believe that the Harris have lied about the extent of their knowledge of Eric's issues. They said both in the Diversion files and to Tom Mauser that they never witnessed Eric's angry behavior but we know that to be false: Sue Klebold wrote that well before the van incident, Eric had an outburst at a soccer match and his parents whisked him away to calm him down, as if it was something that they were used to. They knew he was making bombs. They likely knew of his threats to Brooks Brown as well.
Even in the very morning of 4/20, they lied: I hardly think that Wayne's reason for thinking Eric might be involved in the shooting was just him being part of the Trench Coat Mafia (which he wasn't). A more truthful answer would've been "well, we know he's nuts, he's made death threats before, he likes to build bombs, our house smells of gasoline, we've found gun parts in his bedroom, an ominous drawing in our living room and, let me think, oh yes, an audio recording on the kitchen table of him exposing a genocidal plan".

I think the Harris family definitely knew more than they let on. It is odd that Wayne would call 911 and tell them he thought Eric was involved. It's a very serious assumption to make that your son is involved in a shooting just because he associated with the TCM or wore a trench coat. That's not exactly a light call to make to 911. He'd have to have been very sure that Eric was somehow involved.

hvernon wrote:

Mein Gott wrote:

The question of who actually prescribed medication to Eric has always puzzled me, like one of the many unsolved mysteries of the Columbine incident. The answer could be as simple as his family doctor, perhaps on the advice of Dr. Albert, both of whom, not being psychiatrists, couldn't have fully known the effects of the drugs.

Another question is why the Harrises ended up with Albert, even though he seems to deal exclusively (and not particularly well, either) with divorcing couples. He wouldn't be my first pick for a juvenile delinquent with aggression issues. We know that they inquired about the whole trench coat thing and Albert shrugged it off as "just a coat." It makes you wonder what actually went on in these sessions and if Albert listened to Eric at all, because as we know Eric adopted the coat as he became more and more marginalized, losing friends, his behavior becoming more outlandish. Even if Albert couldn't conceive or detect Eric's mass murder plans, he should have at least recognized that the boy was becoming lonelier and weirder by the week.

I also believe that the Harris have lied about the extent of their knowledge of Eric's issues. They said both in the Diversion files and to Tom Mauser that they never witnessed Eric's angry behavior but we know that to be false: Sue Klebold wrote that well before the van incident, Eric had an outburst at a soccer match and his parents whisked him away to calm him down, as if it was something that they were used to. They knew he was making bombs. They likely knew of his threats to Brooks Brown as well.
Even in the very morning of 4/20, they lied: I hardly think that Wayne's reason for thinking Eric might be involved in the shooting was just him being part of the Trench Coat Mafia (which he wasn't). A more truthful answer would've been "well, we know he's nuts, he's made death threats before, he likes to build bombs, our house smells of gasoline, we've found gun parts in his bedroom, an ominous drawing in our living room and, let me think, oh yes, an audio recording on the kitchen table of him exposing a genocidal plan".

I think the Harris family definitely knew more than they let on. It is odd that Wayne would call 911 and tell them he thought Eric was involved. It's a very serious assumption to make that your son is involved in a shooting just because he associated with the TCM or wore a trench coat. That's not exactly a light call to make to 911.  He'd have to have been very sure that Eric was somehow involved.

I think that the following reconstruction is more likely than not: both parents left the house for work early in the morning, early enough that Eric could be joined by Dylan and the pair of them could prepare the last equipment for NBK undisturbed, plus filming the last basement tape in the living room. Eric also scattered various clues and artifacts around the house, for either his parents or the police to find: we know about bullets, gun parts and bombs in his bedroom, his journal again in the bedroom, a drawing with the words CHS, "CLUE" and a bomb with a lit fuse, the Nixon tape and a piece of paper with a pattern of the assault.
Then Wayne and Kathy, in some unspecified time after 11:19, learn about the ongoing attack. How? TV coverage started at about 12:00, but word-of-mouth was spreading around Littleton like wildfire since the early stages of the incident. Did someone call them, like Nate Dykeman with the Klebolds? We'll never know unless they ever speak out. Still, they both rush back to the home where they are joined by Kathy's sister and, very tellingly, the first thing they do is to call a lawyer to come at their house as soon as he can. They already anticipate that they will need aggressive legal defense, when still nothing is publicly known about the incident at all. At about 1:00 PM, Wayne calls 911. What was he thinking? Was he advised to do so by his lawyer? We can assume that the police arrive after 1:00 PM (there would be no reason to call 911 if officers were already at the scene). The Harrises prove extremely uncooperative; the lawyer arrives soon after they have been kicked out of the house and says to police that if they arrest Eric, they must not interrogate him without the lawyer's presence. Eric had been dead for nearly an hour, but of course nobody knew back then.

I think that as soon as they arrived at the house, they found any combination of the clues Eric left earlier, they added the history of aggression and delinquency of their son, and realized that heavy shit was about to hit the fan. Considering Wayne's reaction to the earlier incidents, that is, to defend Eric at all costs and to try and drag him out "clean" out of the messes he made, I'm led to believe that in the frantic, panicked minutes that spanned the Harrises' arrival at their house and the police's, the Harrises desperately convinced themselves that they could still "fix it" for their son, somehow, and once again shield him from the law. I think that the most important passage of Wayne's call is the question he asks, "have they picked up anybody yet?". I think that the whole purpose of the 911 call was not to advise authorities that his son might be involved, but to try and learn if they had already caught him. In order to do so, Wayne had to say something to make his call believable so he settled for the most innocuous and less-incriminating excuse he could conjure, his son being part of the TCM (which he wasn't).

I find it fascinating that the parents' istinct to protect their kid emerged even when they knew that Eric was out killing people in a rampage.

Since Eric's dad was in military I think he was concerned more about his image since he worked for the government. He might have told Eric to man up when got emotional reason why Eric thought that showing feelings is weakness.
Second is Eric felt like he wasn't good enough because he felt he disappointed his dad he put pressure on himself to succeed.

I can see Mr. Harris having the pants on in the household.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] im surprised that he was honest even when he admitted to lie alot. His parents filled the file too but they didn't really know alot about him. They ticked maybe 3 things?

"But dylan had 2. So we were both of the coats gone?" oh God now I see why Eric literally sunk in that Trenchcoat... Maybe Dylan gave him his 2nd Trenchcoat?

One thing for sure though if I was Eric's parents, I would've sued Dr. Albert, because clearly he wasn't helping their son.