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 Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre

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PostSubject: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeThu Feb 15, 2018 4:13 pm

Now by all means I am not glorifying any school shooting with this topic.  I know I am not alone in feeling that the recent tragedy at Parkland doesn't share the same mystique as Columbine did.  If we were to compare the death total, of course the shooting at Parkland high would succeed its predecessor.  Columbine will always have that mystique surrounding the massacre.  

I feel that Columbine will always stand on its own. There is always a sense of morbid curiosity surrounding these events, sure there have been shootings where the death total has gone way higher then Columbine.  I want to stress I am in no way glorifying school shootings so I say this carefully, I just feel that any past or unfortunately future school shooting will never be as "interesting" as Columbine.  

We had a lot of necessities that we wish we could of had at Columbine during this recent tragedy. There are countless videos of students making use of their smart phones,which did not exist in 1999.  Just imagine if students had that when Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold wreaked havoc amongst their classmates.  Perhaps that is why no shooting will ever gain more curiosity then that fateful day on April 20th 1999.  Two shooters as opposed to one as well and there somewhat " white suburban good boy looks" are major reasons as well.

In closing what do you guys think?  Will there ever be another shooting that gains as much notoriety and curiosity that Columbine did.  The shooting at Parkland had so much coverage and it eerily reminded me of Columbine.  There are some similarities in that it was a high school and seeing all the students flee with their hands up.  What would it take for a tragedy to overcome Columbine, I feel as if there will never be one

My prayers go out to the 17 lives lost at Parkland high, and to every life ever lost in the numerous senseless countless tragedies that have occurred over time


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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeThu Feb 15, 2018 5:03 pm

I agree. Here we are almost 19 years later and Columbine is still being talked about and researched, while some of the more recent shootings have already fell by the way side.

Columbine has stood the test of time.
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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeThu Feb 15, 2018 5:26 pm

I agree with pretty much everything you said [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. I don't think there will ever be another shooting/shooter that will gather the kind of interest that Columbine/Dylan and Eric still continue to get to this day.

I was watching the live coverage of the shooting yesterday and it was so eerie how much it reminded me of Columbine. The aerial shots of the kids running out of the school looked exactly like Columbine. However, in the matter of a a week or so, the attention that this shooting is getting will die down, just like all the others since Columbine.

There's just something about Columbine that grabs a hold of people like no other school shooting does. I can't explain it, but pretty much everyone into Columbine knows exactly what I'm talking about.

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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeThu Feb 15, 2018 5:38 pm

I think it's because of the perfect storm of events that led to the shooting. Two outcasts come up and execute the same idea, police are incompetent and let them run wild through the school for hours (if they were still alive, SWAT had no idea they died until hours later) and it had the largest casualty number of the many school shootings that popped up at the time. The media was already eating that shit up like Kip Kinkel and others and this had the perfect story. Hell TIME magazine put Eric and Dylans faces on the fucking cover. How tone deaf is that?
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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeThu Feb 15, 2018 6:24 pm

Parkland will be forgotten in a week whilst Columbine lives on. Columbine was the first of its kind and will stand out in the memories of Americans and non Americans for years to come.
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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeThu Feb 15, 2018 6:36 pm

I was 17 when it happened and I remember coming home and being glued to the TV, something big happened and I couldn’t explain why

After almost 19 years we still have questions, we are waiting for the depositions..

It affected some of us in my age group more than 9/11 did.

I think Columbine happened at a certain time that can’t be recreated. You now have myths, songs, movies, books...

It was a tipping point, a media circus...

It’s not even edgy anymore to sympathize with them or even laugh at the Car Wax commercial or call a Eric a dork when we see him in the Columbine video. To me they are the most relatable.

We feel like we know Rachel Scott in a way where we can also feel the anger of her friends about the movie.

They were all our friends, we all wanted Mr.Sanders as our teacher.


We have a good feel for who Eric and Dylan were. They were kids who got good grades, held down jobs and all in all looked like cute normal teens.

You now almost have Eric and Dylan treated as “anti heroes” their legacy is still being felt and I imagine it’s hard for those who knew them to almost have aura of “fame” for lack of a better word. When I was at an event and I ran into one of their friends, I knew them throughout their work but it was another odd feeling inside that I knew of them... and I was like “I hope you don’t catch on”

Their tragedy became our tragedy. I know some survivors don’t like that, but it’s true.

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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeThu Feb 15, 2018 6:44 pm

MorbidMatt wrote:
I think it's because of the perfect storm of events that led to the shooting. Two outcasts come up and execute the same idea, police are incompetent and let them run wild through the school for hours (if they were still alive, SWAT had no idea they died until hours later) and it had the largest casualty number of the many school shootings that popped up at the time. The media was already eating that shit up like Kip Kinkel and others and this had the perfect story. Hell TIME magazine put Eric and Dylans faces on the fucking cover. How tone deaf is that?

Huge glossy photos of their smiling faces on the cover and tiny black and white photos of their victims.

Then I remember the full page pics of Eric’s yearbook photo shoot like he was a dang male model.
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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeThu Feb 15, 2018 7:01 pm

Also, correct me if I’m wrong, but when mass shootings and school shootings happen I feel like more people from Columbine get asked about it through the news media than other survivors of shootings.

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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeThu Feb 15, 2018 7:03 pm

Yeah a major point is the victims that we all became familiar with as well. We definitely will not be able to recite the 17 victims at Parkland now or at any point in the future, but we damn sure know the 15 in Littleton.(e&d died so yes 15)

Like screamingophelia said we all wanted Mr Sanders to be our teacher. We fell in love with Rachel Scott, we strongly sympathized with all of them, we even grew to know the injured! Think of it this way do you think we'll ever have a deep interest in Nikolas Cruz like we do with Eric and Dylan? Absolutely not, it really goes to say, Columbine will always stand alone, its extraordinary to think about
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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeThu Feb 15, 2018 7:04 pm

Columbine was probably so massive because it was the first major shooting that we thought we had footage of with the ‘action’ happening there and then on our tv’s. I remember watching it expecting to see some major shootout at any point between the perpetrator(s) and the police. Eric & Dylan will have been dead already by the time I was watching it.

I don’t think it’s researched more than the others apart from one reason - because there were two shooters.

I know I find it fascinating how two of them managed to cover their tracks for so long, and had the belief in each other to actually go through with it, even though it didn’t go to plan.

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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeThu Feb 15, 2018 7:07 pm

Another great point [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I watched Frank DeAngelis, Coni Sanders both giving separate statements on the news.  Not to mention the thousands of columbine references throughout every segment
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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeThu Feb 15, 2018 7:23 pm

Draw_It_White wrote:
Columbine was probably so massive because it was the first major shooting that we thought we had footage of with the ‘action’ happening there and then on our tv’s. I remember watching it expecting to see some major shootout at any point between the perpetrator(s) and the police. Eric & Dylan will have been dead already by the time I was watching it.

I don’t think it’s researched more than the others apart from one reason - because there were two shooters.

I know I find it fascinating how two of them managed to cover their tracks for so long, and had the belief in each other to actually go through with it, even though it didn’t go to plan.

Being that there were 2 is also another reason I agree. They had a strong friendship to say the least.
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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeThu Feb 15, 2018 7:24 pm

Ericklebold99 wrote:
Another great point [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I watched Frank DeAngelis, Coni Sanders both giving separate statements on the news.  Not to mention the thousands of columbine references throughout every segment

It's always going to be top of mind absolutely.

Then over the past couple of years with Sue writing her book and speaking out, that is something different than past shootings.

Then you have a good story of forgiveness and hope when you find out that Sue and Coni Sanders are now friends.
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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeThu Feb 15, 2018 7:27 pm

Ericklebold99 wrote:
Yeah a major point is the victims that we all became familiar with as well.  We definitely will not be able to recite the 17 victims at Parkland now or at any point in the future, but we damn sure know the 15 in Littleton.(e&d died so yes 15)

Like screamingophelia said we all wanted Mr Sanders to be our teacher.  We fell in love with Rachel Scott, we strongly sympathized with all of them, we even grew to know the injured!  Think of it this way do you think we'll ever have a deep interest in Nikolas Cruz like we do with Eric and Dylan? Absolutely not, it really goes to say, Columbine will always stand alone, its extraordinary to think about

I remember sending a card to the Scott's when it happened and I reached out to the Klebolds too.

I don't think Nikolas Cruz will evoke the interest that Eric and Dylan did. Their anger before the shooting felt more... I can't think of the right word, more like kids wanting attention and festering. Like "are you going to stop me, NOPE! We're cool, we are doing it.."

This Nikolas Cruz seems more scary in a way.
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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeThu Feb 15, 2018 7:42 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
Ericklebold99 wrote:
Yeah a major point is the victims that we all became familiar with as well.  We definitely will not be able to recite the 17 victims at Parkland now or at any point in the future, but we damn sure know the 15 in Littleton.(e&d died so yes 15)

Like screamingophelia said we all wanted Mr Sanders to be our teacher.  We fell in love with Rachel Scott, we strongly sympathized with all of them, we even grew to know the injured!  Think of it this way do you think we'll ever have a deep interest in Nikolas Cruz like we do with Eric and Dylan? Absolutely not, it really goes to say, Columbine will always stand alone, its extraordinary to think about

I remember sending a card to the Scott's when it happened and I reached out to the Klebolds too.

I don't think Nikolas Cruz will evoke the interest that Eric and Dylan did. Their anger before the shooting felt more... I can't think of the right word, more like kids wanting attention and festering. Like "are you going to stop me, NOPE! We're cool, we are doing it.."

This Nikolas Cruz seems more scary in a way.

I think he's scary in the same way Adam Lanza is too. Both look like weakling little boys who while they may seem like recluses or the odd ones out, would never be able to actually harm people. Eric and Dylan gave off the vibe that they were intimdating at least with the trench coat mafia bullshit and the fact that Dylan was a pretty tall guy. Lanza was emaciated and this kid looks pretty small too. It's hard to imagine them actually pulling the trigger and mowing down a couple dozen people
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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeThu Feb 15, 2018 8:31 pm

Columbine will forever be the archetypal 'school shooting'.

the first few reasons that come to mind:

1. timing/era. Columbine wasn't the first school shooting, but it got by far the most media attention. i believe it was the first to be covered on live TV. it was unprecedented and genuinely shocking.
2. the fact that there were two shooters.
3. the way they dressed. when i think of Columbine, i immediately think of the trenchcoats, the boots, the custom t-shirts, the suspenders, the fingerless gloves. almost all the fictional portrayals i've seen of school shooters pay homage to it in some way. it's become the school shooter 'style'. i hate to use words like 'iconic', but i think it's fair to say they were trendsetters.
4. the journals and the infamous 'Basement Tapes'. while other shooters have left manifestos and writing behind, none have been as viewed, analysed, romanticised and quoted as the Columbine killers'.

the simple, sad fact is that school shootings in America will never, ever be as shocking as they were twenty years ago.

with the exceptions of Virginia Tech and Sandy Hook, every school shooting since Columbine has been a blip on the radar, in my mind. i remember being shocked by Virginia Tech because of the number of victims; it also stood out/was interesting because of the striking visual imagery of Cho's photos and videos. Sandy Hook was shocking because of the young age of the victims/the fact that an elementary school was targeted.

the other shootings, while tragic and terrible, all seem to blend in. they are so commonplace. the element of surprise is gone. the shock factor is dead.

Columbine is deeply ingrained in public consciousness. Harris and Klebold achieved the notoriety they set out to. those who attempt to emulate them achieve only their allocated 'five minutes of fame' before their names fade from memory.
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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeThu Feb 15, 2018 8:36 pm

rkp wrote:
Columbine will forever be the archetypal 'school shooting'.

the first few reasons that come to mind:

1. timing/era. Columbine wasn't the first school shooting, but it got by far the most media attention. i believe it was the first to be covered on live TV. it was unprecedented and genuinely shocking.
2. the fact that there were two shooters.
3. the way they dressed. when i think of Columbine, i immediately think of the trenchcoats, the boots, the custom t-shirts, the suspenders, the fingerless gloves. almost all the fictional portrayals i've seen of school shooters pay homage to it in some way. it's become the school shooter 'style'. i hate to use words like 'iconic', but i think it's fair to say they were trendsetters.
4. the journals and the infamous 'Basement Tapes'. while other shooters have left manifestos and writing behind, none have been as viewed, analysed, romanticised and quoted as the Columbine killers'.

the simple, sad fact is that school shootings in America will never, ever be as shocking as they were twenty years ago.

with the exceptions of Virginia Tech and Sandy Hook, every school shooting since Columbine has been a blip on the radar, in my mind. i remember being shocked by Virginia Tech because of the number of victims; it also stood out/was interesting because of the striking visual imagery of Cho's photos and videos. Sandy Hook was shocking because of the young age of the victims/the fact that an elementary school was targeted.

the other shootings, while tragic and terrible, all seem to blend in. they are so commonplace. the element of surprise is gone. the shock factor is dead.

Columbine is deeply ingrained in public consciousness. Harris and Klebold achieved the notoriety they set out to. those who attempt to emulate them achieve only their allocated 'five minutes of fame' before their names fade from memory.

All of this. Very true.
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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeThu Feb 15, 2018 8:44 pm

There is the screen shot too of the CCTV footage. I’m trying to remember how Sue described it in her book.

Also their suicide photos, next to each other, killed and died together..

All things to build up this “lore” of Eric and Dylan.

And then you have their friends talking about normal they were and how they used to just watch movies and laugh.

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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeThu Feb 15, 2018 8:49 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
There is the screen shot too of the CCTV footage. I’m trying to remember how Sue described it in her book.

Sue Klebold wrote:
It’s my hope the recommendations I have made here won’t be seen as pro-censorship or a threat to free speech, but as a call for ethical reporting. (In an act I respect greatly, the novelist Stephen King asked his publisher to withdraw his novel Rage after a number of school shooters quoted from it.) The iconic Columbine photograph is a still from the surveillance tape showing Dylan and Eric in full paramilitary garb, brandishing their weapons in the school cafeteria. Whenever I see it—especially when it accompanies an article that purports to be taking a more constructive approach—I have to stop myself from throwing the magazine across the room.
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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeThu Feb 15, 2018 9:05 pm

Columbine always will be on the first place, due many reason, even if NBK was failed.
But main reason it's just because guys left so much disturbing stuff and we all got access to their dark world. And they had a reason why they done what they done, not just because they was outcasts or something, it's was much more deeper and darker, and I bet many of us have same emotions sometimes as they had.
They was together and it's was a perfect match, because can you find a friend who gonna kill with you and can you find a friend who gonna die with you? Tragic, but very impressive.

After Columbine all this mass-shooting most looks like some sort of competitions: who killed more, who had better guns, and etc.
But Columbine was unique and it's still unique. And that is why we all here after so many years.

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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeThu Feb 15, 2018 9:17 pm

sscc wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
There is the screen shot too of the CCTV footage. I’m trying to remember how Sue described it in her book.

Sue Klebold wrote:
It’s my hope the recommendations I have made here won’t be seen as pro-censorship or a threat to free speech, but as a call for ethical reporting. (In an act I respect greatly, the novelist Stephen King asked his publisher to withdraw his novel Rage after a number of school shooters quoted from it.) The iconic Columbine photograph is a still from the surveillance tape showing Dylan and Eric in full paramilitary garb, brandishing their weapons in the school cafeteria. Whenever I see it—especially when it accompanies an article that purports to be taking a more constructive approach—I have to stop myself from throwing the magazine across the room.

Thank you sscc

I thought she used the word iconic. Interesting and apprapos choice of words

You can find replicas of most all their T-shirts as well. And I’m sure people buy them and wear them
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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeThu Feb 15, 2018 10:05 pm

Ericklebold99 wrote:
Will there ever be another shooting that gains as much notoriety and curiosity that Columbine did.

Sandy Hook is on its way there.

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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeThu Feb 15, 2018 11:54 pm

Curiosity regarding the basement tapes, full 911 call  amongst other things such as more crime scene photos are all apart of the mystique and mystery in which makes Columbine the most notorious school shooting. I do agree with a lot of you saying Nikolas Cruz is more of the Adam Lanza/scary school shooter type.  A cousin of mine mentioned they were planning on releasing Nikolas Cruz's journal writings, has anyone heard anything regarding that? Reading Eric and Dylan's journals certainly helped us understand them more and just added more into what makes Columbine so notorious


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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeFri Feb 16, 2018 12:06 am

Ericklebold99 wrote:
A cousin of mine mentioned they were releasing Nikolas Cruz's journal writings, has anyone heard anything regarding that?
Not yet. It Happened only 2 days ago.

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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeFri Feb 16, 2018 12:21 am

Well yes we're all very aware it was two days ago, however they are planning on doing that.  Fact of the matter is, while maintaining this posts original meaning, that even with the eventual release of the journal entries, it still won't capture the same mystique as Columbine.  There are so many different things That were captured by smart phones that we only wish we had in 99.  Maybe not knowing everything will always keep us invested, which is why were still intrigued by Columbine 19 years later
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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeFri Feb 16, 2018 2:29 pm

Maybe in a positive way, this will change the future of school shootings just like Columbine did.  As we all know the way police treated an active shooter situation drastically changed after 4/20/99.  Obviously that is the best approach which has no doubt saved countless amount of lives.

It seems that there is a real demand for change here as there should be.  Who knows what will transpire because of this but we can hope it'll be a huge like Columbine was.
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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeSat Feb 17, 2018 1:41 am

Interesting discussion. It definitely came to my mind that despite the tragedy it won't be Columbine. As someone mentioned, there are a couple that make an impact, but I was shocked when I saw the # of shootings in 2013 (26), 2014 (36), and 2015 (21), yet not sure how many I could recall in detail.
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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeSat Feb 17, 2018 1:49 am

I have always said for better or worse there will only be 1 Eric and Dylan ( well 2)

and Rachel, Cassie, Dave Sanders, Isiah, Kelly, Kyle, Steve, Danny R, Danny M, Lauren, John Tomlin, Steve and Corey.

We remember all of the victims names from this one tragedy. It's different and it was ground zero for lack of a better word.

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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeSat Feb 17, 2018 8:55 am

Also Columbine was so widely covered for a while. The actual event and discussion surrounding it was on the news for a long period of time.  We actually had televised funerals for the victims.  Rachel Scotts funeral comes to mind, I believe it was one of the highest rated segments on CNN at the time.  Just furthering on as to why Parkland or any other massacre for that matter will never gain as much notoriety as Columbine.  It's not just the shooters we grew to knew but the victims as well
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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeSat Feb 17, 2018 11:55 am

All of the above and because E&D were intelligent kids from a nice neighbourhood who could've chosen to put their high school life behind them, go to college or end up in the military or whatever, they could've picked themselves up and maybe even grow to like their former bullies in their 20s. Instead they made the rational (to them) decision to carry out their plans and never wavered in their decision in the year prior. They left a heap of evidence behind not because they wanted to be glamourised on youtube or tumblr and but has just added to the mystery as to why they did it. It was a tragedy, it didn't need to happen, it wasn't supposed to happen, at so many times their plans could've fallen but didn't. These other killers seem to be so much more extreme, mentally deranged or have had a difficult upbringing that it just doesn't garner any interest from me.
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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeSat Feb 17, 2018 12:02 pm

Ericklebold99 wrote:
Also Columbine was so widely covered for a while. The actual event and discussion surrounding it was on the news for a long period of time.  We actually had televised funerals for the victims.  Rachel Scotts funeral comes to mind, I believe it was one of the highest rated segments on CNN at the time.  Just furthering on as to why Parkland or any other massacre for that matter will never gain as much notoriety as Columbine.  It's not just the shooters we grew to knew but the victims as well

I remember watching it on CNN. It was also the day of Dylan's funeral and that even got coverage.

There was also the fact that a lot of the kids pretty much knew each other since Kindergarten. That's how it was at my HS. We all pretty much were in the same class since we were little. Also you had the "she said yes' controversies, race relations (was Isaiah targeted) there was a lot to unpack.

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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeSat Feb 17, 2018 10:07 pm

Its true that other killers seemed so much more ruthless and deranged.  Then I think about the eyewitness's in the library and the 911 call, where you hear Eric and Dylan screaming and ruthlessly taunting their victims.  I haven't heard of such aggression since Columbine.  Sure Seung-Hui Cho, Adam Lanza and Nikolas Cruz seemed absolutely deranged, for the most part from what I have read and gone over, they all seem to be the more methodical blank stare kind of killers.  To hear the shooters screaming and torturing their prey is a lot more ruthless in my opinion
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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeSat Feb 17, 2018 10:18 pm

When I listen to the 911 call the only thing I hear is everyone getting up. And then Vals cries. Everything else even with my good headphones I can’t hear it. I really feel like since it was supposed to be a bombing and then a shooting second they were trying to put on a show and be cruel. Make everyone feel all the pain they were feeling. Make no mistake it is gross and awful and I think they’re sick for doing it. My empathy for them ends that morning when they started shooting wheh the bombs didn’t go off.

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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeSun Feb 18, 2018 12:41 am

Ericklebold99 wrote:
Its true that other killers seemed so much more ruthless and deranged.  Then I think about the eyewitness's in the library and the 911 call, where you hear Eric and Dylan screaming and ruthlessly taunting their victims.  I haven't heard of such aggression since Columbine.  Sure Seung-Hui Cho, Adam Lanza and Nikolas Cruz seemed absolutely deranged, for the most part from what I have read and gone over, they all seem to be the more methodical blank stare kind of killers.  To hear the shooters screaming and torturing their prey is a lot more ruthless in my opinion

Well most killers after Columbine have a lot less time to work with. Eric and Dylan took their time with the killings.

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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeSun Feb 18, 2018 3:49 am

I think the Parkland massacre puts into perspective how overblown Columbine was.
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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeSun Feb 18, 2018 3:53 am

QuestionMark wrote:
Ericklebold99 wrote:
Its true that other killers seemed so much more ruthless and deranged.  Then I think about the eyewitness's in the library and the 911 call, where you hear Eric and Dylan screaming and ruthlessly taunting their victims.  I haven't heard of such aggression since Columbine.  Sure Seung-Hui Cho, Adam Lanza and Nikolas Cruz seemed absolutely deranged, for the most part from what I have read and gone over, they all seem to be the more methodical blank stare kind of killers.  To hear the shooters screaming and torturing their prey is a lot more ruthless in my opinion

Well most killers after Columbine have a lot less time to work with. Eric and Dylan took their time with the killings.
This is definitely true but Peter Langman talks about the differences in the emotional states of killers in some of his writing and he believes that different types of killers react in different ways. I don't know if he wrote about this in more detail somewhere else, but I was just reading this yesterday, in a brief overview of his evidence that Tim Kretschmer was a psychopath.

Peter Langman wrote:
Another factor that suggests psychopathic traits is Kretschmer’s behavior during the attack. Psychotic and traumatized shooters typically exhibit rage, anguish, and/or seem to be mentally absent during their attacks. Eric Harris, however, was laughing as he killed people at point-blank range. He appeared to be having the time of his life committing murder. Similarly, Brenda Spencer had a great time shooting people; she acted like it was sport. Both Harris and Spencer were psychopathic shooters.

Kretschmer, like Harris and Spencer, was remarkably nonchalant during the attack, even after he had killed many people. During his escape, he kidnapped a driver. When the driver asked why he was killing people, Kretschmer said, “For fun, because it’s fun.” He reportedly was in a carefree mood and at one point asked the driver, “Shall I get out now, shoot a bit, have a bit of fun?” This calmness in the wake of murder suggests a profound lack of empathy and his pleasure in killing indicates a sadistic nature. These traits are in keeping with a psychopathic personality.

It's funny that he makes these statements about Eric but he also believes that Dylan was not a psychopathic shooter (he calls him a psychotic shooter, as a matter of fact) even though his behavior was consistent with Eric's and the behavior of other shooters he describes as psychopathic. I believe that some of the most disturbing comments during the massacre were attributed to Dylan because he was so casual about killing, including his non-chalant "Sure, I'll help you" in response to Lance Kirklin begging for help, before shooting him in the face with the shotgun and his equally blasé response to John Savage's question about what he was doing, "Oh, just killing people." As always, I'd take his conclusions with a grain of salt because he sometimes works very hard to get the facts to fit his conclusions but he has studied many mass shooters and this is the pattern that he feels he has identified.
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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeSun Feb 18, 2018 7:40 am

myshame wrote:
I think the Parkland massacre puts into perspective how overblown Columbine was.

It also puts into perspective how much America has changed since 1999. Columbine was a shock to the system because things were going fairly well at the time. After 9/11, the endless wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, Hurricane Katrina, and hundreds if not thousands of mass shootings over the last two decades, Parkland is just another run-of-the-mill massacre. Even Las Vegas didn't make that much of a blip on the cultural radar screen.

NBK will always have special meaning to me because it happened when I was 13 going on 14 years old, getting ready to move from middle school to high school. I still remember the exact moment I heard about the massacre on CNN. For the next week, I spent every spare moment glued to the television set, watching as much news coverage as I could. (Even 9/11 didn't move me as deeply. The beginning of the Iraq War did have a strong impact on me, though.)

Of all the shootings since Columbine, the one that most interests me the most is Virginia Tech. (Again, it happened at a crucial time of my life. I was 21 years old, getting ready to graduate from college.)

Even now, all these years later, reminders of Eric and Dylan's crimes occasionally pop into my head at weird times. My interest has waxed and waned over the years, but it's never died out completely.

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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeSun Feb 18, 2018 6:11 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I completely agree with everything you just said.  As big of a massacre Las Vegas was, it just seems like a blip on the radar.  It sounds horrible to say this but Parkland is starting to feel that way as well.  When Columbine occurred, the news and questions didn't just phase out after a few days.  


Sure Parkland still pops up on the news but nowhere near the magnitude that Columbine did.  Reminders of Eric and Dylan's crimes don't only go through our minds at times but everyone else's when a tragedy occurs.  Columbine will always be a testament to time.  School shootings will unfortunately continue and they will always be tied to Columbine somehow.
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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeSun Feb 18, 2018 6:21 pm

Ericklebold99 wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I completely agree with everything you just said.  As big of a massacre Las Vegas was, it just seems like a blip on the radar.  It sounds horrible to say this but Parkland is starting to feel that way as well.  When Columbine occurred, the news and questions didn't just phase out after a few days.  


Sure Parkland still pops up on the news but nowhere near the magnitude that Columbine did.  Reminders of Eric and Dylan's crimes don't only go through our minds at times but everyone else's when a tragedy occurs.  Columbine will always be a testament to time.  School shootings will unfortunately continue and they will always be tied to Columbine somehow.

Agreed. Here we are only a few days later and for the most part it has already dropped out of the major news. Sadly mass shootings have became a normal thing and most don't think about it past the first day or so.
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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeMon Feb 19, 2018 10:18 pm

I was reading about how they were considering tearing down the building where the worst of the massacre occurred.  It gets me thinking about Columbine and how they were originally considering tearing down the school as well.  Ultimately they went against that idea and built a memorial near the sight, which I wholeheartedly agree with.  I feel as if Parkland should take a similar approach and leave that part of the school up.  It can really go both ways, a lot or people probably want that area torn apart due to horrible memories.  Then there's a lot of people who feel as if they do that, then the shooter won.  What's your guys take on this controversial issue?

Its great how we can all have a civilized conversation on here and not bicker with each other.  All other platforms people are cursing each other off and just saying horrible things.  I just want to say its an honor talking with everyone here and all sharing a similar interest in such events. I really want to thank [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] for having such a wonderful site. I can't tell you how much I enjoy visiting this board everyday and talking with all of you.
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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeTue Feb 20, 2018 4:19 am

Ericklebold99 wrote:
It gets me thinking about Columbine and how they were originally considering tearing down the school as well.  Ultimately they went against that idea and built a memorial near the sight, which I wholeheartedly agree with.

They did tear down the library, but they had to keep most of the structure intact because they didn't have the money to build a new facility from scratch. (Columbine opened in 1973, but was almost totally rebuilt in 1995. When Eric and Dylan walked into that building on their first day of high school, they were walking into a brand-new school.)

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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeTue Feb 20, 2018 5:42 am

Yeah I was saying the whole school in general they were talking about tearing down.  I agree library being torn apart was a good move but keeping the school intact in general was even a better one.  Its funny because yes they did completely remodel the school when Eric and Dylan first came there.  Tearing down the school would of been to costly and would of more importantly given into the fact that Eric and Dylan won the war.  I just feel they shouldn't tear down that area of the school in Parkland because it will give in to the fact that Nikolas Cruz won the war and destroyed the school.

Of course we all know that the library is where the majority of the massacre happened. I don't want to say that the library was just a small part of the school,however, it was. The freshman campus in Parkland is most definitely a bigger area then the library at Columbine. I agree with remodeling that area but I stand strongly behind the fact that tearing that part of the school down will give in to the shooter.
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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeTue Feb 20, 2018 7:40 am

I was thinking about posting a similar topic, as to why do you think Columbine would always be [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] in people's minds when it comes to school shootings. I've been watching into the list of school shootings in U.S. on wikipedia and Columbine isn't the first in the modern history, nor it's the deadliest one, but somehow, people all around the world felt it close.
I don't remember it covered on our TV or any media, I was 10 back then, but at this point in my life I have been reading a lot about it, especially lately, not that I admire such horrible actions, I'm more interested in the mentality over doing something like this.
About Sandy Hook, some of the conspiracy theories does make sense, while some are just beyond stupid, that's why I think SHE would also have people talk about it, years after it happened.
And about Douglas High school, I don't know about you, but I can name the victims, I read a lot about it and I want to know more. But yeah, Nikolas looks more of a mentally unstable type of person, a person that would not surprise you doing something like this, god, even his friends joked about it.

But when I think of Columbine, a horrible picture pops up inside my head, smoke, gun powder, yelling, screaming, I can almost feel the smell, it gives me chills and it will always will.

May be if we ever see a movie about Cruz, like we see a lot about Columbine, it'll make us feel the same way about it, or at least, pretty close
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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeThu Feb 22, 2018 7:40 am

Yeah Columbine will always give me chills like no other.  I was in 8th grade at the time it occurred and I remember it being so big and all over the media.  I still just can't come to the grips and realize the shooting in Parkland feels like its forgotten about already.  Obviously the family of the loved ones who passed and the community are still affected.  I just feel on the broader perspective, like from an outsiders view its already a distant memory, while Columbine at the time it happened was still striking the world with grief weeks after it occurred and still to this day!
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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeFri Mar 09, 2018 7:51 pm

Wow looking over this post just thinking to myself how eerily true it is. Here we are close to a month removed from the shooting at Parkland, and its just a distant memory. I know I'm not alone in thinking when a month had gone by when Columbine occurred, it was still most definitely etched in our minds and wouldn't leave. Dare I say Columbine is more thought about today then present thoughts about Parkland
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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeFri Mar 09, 2018 8:31 pm

Columbine was at the forefront of the news up to a year after. I remember the anniversary being covered on the news.

I don’t know that any shooters are going to be given the “lost boys” treatment that Eric and Dylan did. There also no big controversy about if someone died for their faith or not. There not a Rachel in this. That’s what the news wants.

Thank goodness you can’t recreate Columbine. You can’t recreate the time. There was only one and people are still feeling the effects. Dylan and Eric got what they wanted. For better or worse those two assholes were one of a kind. What they did was awful but any shooter who tries to recreate Erics angry rants are looked at as pathetic, while we laugh and joke about Eric's thoughts but can also relate in some way too. We also have their student films and heaven forbid someone tries to turn into late 90s's lovelorn Holden Caufield and tries to be all Dylan like "I am so full of pain and I love this person, death is another dimension. No one will help me" they'd be laughed at and treated like they are a sad virgin who had no friends, where as Dylan is held up to be a tragic figure.

Now for Parkland, I think this will be an important event for gun control and the debate on guns and safety in schools.

However, with Columbine it's hard to explain if you weren't there and around the age everyone was, and I don't mean that offensively to people who get what I am talking about who are older or younger than me, but being 17 when it happened, there was a definitive impact and feeling.

My first monologue I wrote for my theatre class was about Rachel... I mean now as a writer or actress I wouldn't do something like that for an audition or anything because I don't like stand alone monologues, but it was just something that effected us all.

It is interesting though because I feel like my classmates were more affected by 9/11, I was a junior in college then. Someone wrote a one woman show about her reaction to 9/11 and it was taken better than talking about how you feel when a school shooting happened. Even though neither of us were directly effected by them.


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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeFri Mar 09, 2018 8:37 pm

sscc wrote:
QuestionMark wrote:
Ericklebold99 wrote:
Its true that other killers seemed so much more ruthless and deranged.  Then I think about the eyewitness's in the library and the 911 call, where you hear Eric and Dylan screaming and ruthlessly taunting their victims.  I haven't heard of such aggression since Columbine.  Sure Seung-Hui Cho, Adam Lanza and Nikolas Cruz seemed absolutely deranged, for the most part from what I have read and gone over, they all seem to be the more methodical blank stare kind of killers.  To hear the shooters screaming and torturing their prey is a lot more ruthless in my opinion

Well most killers after Columbine have a lot less time to work with. Eric and Dylan took their time with the killings.
This is definitely true but Peter Langman talks about the differences in the emotional states of killers in some of his writing and he believes that different types of killers react in different ways. I don't know if he wrote about this in more detail somewhere else, but I was just reading this yesterday, in a brief overview of his evidence that Tim Kretschmer was a psychopath.

Peter Langman wrote:
Another factor that suggests psychopathic traits is Kretschmer’s behavior during the attack. Psychotic and traumatized shooters typically exhibit rage, anguish, and/or seem to be mentally absent during their attacks. Eric Harris, however, was laughing as he killed people at point-blank range. He appeared to be having the time of his life committing murder. Similarly, Brenda Spencer had a great time shooting people; she acted like it was sport. Both Harris and Spencer were psychopathic shooters.

Kretschmer, like Harris and Spencer, was remarkably nonchalant during the attack, even after he had killed many people. During his escape, he kidnapped a driver. When the driver asked why he was killing people, Kretschmer said, “For fun, because it’s fun.” He reportedly was in a carefree mood and at one point asked the driver, “Shall I get out now, shoot a bit, have a bit of fun?” This calmness in the wake of murder suggests a profound lack of empathy and his pleasure in killing indicates a sadistic nature. These traits are in keeping with a psychopathic personality.

It's funny that he makes these statements about Eric but he also believes that Dylan was not a psychopathic shooter (he calls him a psychotic shooter, as a matter of fact) even though his behavior was consistent with Eric's and the behavior of other shooters he describes as psychopathic. I believe that some of the most disturbing comments during the massacre were attributed to Dylan because he was so casual about killing, including his non-chalant "Sure, I'll help you" in response to Lance Kirklin begging for help, before shooting him in the face with the shotgun and his equally blasé response to John Savage's question about what he was doing, "Oh, just killing people." As always, I'd take his conclusions with a grain of salt because he sometimes works very hard to get the facts to fit his conclusions but he has studied many mass shooters and this is the pattern that he feels he has identified.


I also don’t understand how so many overlook Dylan’s cruelty. For years I assumed it was all Eric but revisiting and learning more about Dylan astounds me.
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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeFri Mar 09, 2018 9:16 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
Ericklebold99 wrote:
Also Columbine was so widely covered for a while. The actual event and discussion surrounding it was on the news for a long period of time.  We actually had televised funerals for the victims.  Rachel Scotts funeral comes to mind, I believe it was one of the highest rated segments on CNN at the time.  Just furthering on as to why Parkland or any other massacre for that matter will never gain as much notoriety as Columbine.  It's not just the shooters we grew to knew but the victims as well

I remember watching it on CNN. It was also the day of Dylan's funeral and that even got coverage.




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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeTue Apr 17, 2018 4:02 pm

I feel the two are just so eerily similar, but yes Columbine will be forever etched in our minds more then any future shooting, its crazy to think about
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PostSubject: Re: Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre   Parkland massacre/Columbine massacre Icon_minitimeTue Apr 17, 2018 4:34 pm

LPorter101 wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
Ericklebold99 wrote:
Also Columbine was so widely covered for a while. The actual event and discussion surrounding it was on the news for a long period of time.  We actually had televised funerals for the victims.  Rachel Scotts funeral comes to mind, I believe it was one of the highest rated segments on CNN at the time.  Just furthering on as to why Parkland or any other massacre for that matter will never gain as much notoriety as Columbine.  It's not just the shooters we grew to knew but the victims as well

I remember watching it on CNN. It was also the day of Dylan's funeral and that even got coverage.




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