Why didn't Eric and Dylan kill more people?

Obviously, I'm very grateful the amount of people they killed wasn't higher, but I can't help but wonder, why didn't they kill more people? Investigators later found that they had enough ammo to kill everyone in the library many times over. But instead they left the library early and started walking around sort of aimlessly for 20 minutes before killing themselves. I just find it odd how they're intentions were to kill hundreds, even thousands of people, but once their bombs failed, they had a chance to kill everyone in the library and walking by classrooms, but they only killed 13. Any thoughts on why they didn't kill more? Just seems very odd to me.

This very question has been asked thousands of times over the years, and we still have no clear answer.

The fact is we really have no idea why they chose to stop killing. Some say they came down from the adrenaline high and realized what they were doing, while others say they were just done and decided to kill themselves because they thought the SWAT team was close and they didn't want to be taken alive.

No one really knows and all we can do is speculate.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

This very question has been asked thousands of times over the years, and we still have no clear answer.

The fact is we really have no idea why they chose to stop killing. Some say they came down from the adrenaline high and realized what they were doing, while others say they were just done and decided to kill themselves because they thought the SWAT team was close and they didn't want to be taken alive.

No one really knows and all we can do is speculate.

Play true. I did notice in zero hour the actors portraying them did have looks of remorse on their faces while they were walking around the school after the library.

I'm pretty confident in my conclusions:
-The primary bombs failed causing a huge drop of morale
-The weapons were old and unreliable (the only decent one being the Hi-Point Carbine)
-They weren't remorseless psychos and the close range killing affected them mentally
-The small army of law inforcement outside played on their mind, and they expected them to storm in any minute
-By the time they returned to the library, they were pretty much out of 9mm ammunition and probably seeing the car bombs fail was the final straw.

TheSpiral wrote:

I'm pretty confident in my conclusions:
-The primary bombs failed causing a huge drop of morale
-The weapons were old and unreliable (the only decent one being the Hi-Point Carbine)
-They weren't remorseless psychos and the close range killing affected them mentally
-The small army of law inforcement outside played on their mind, and they expected them to storm in any minute
-By the time they returned to the library, they were pretty much out of 9mm ammunition and probably seeing the car bombs fail was the final straw.

+ their shooting skill was low as well.

The thrill they had from shooting the first few teens died out after a while, I believe this was when one of them muttered "maybe we should start knifing people".
They also seemed to get off on the fear of those still alive, like tormenting the people surrounding Mr Sanders by planting their pipe bombs in the doorway and taunting people hiding in the bathrooms.
I'm sure its been said countless times before, but H&K will forever remain an enigma, even if the unlikely release of the basement tapes does occur.

I agree with everything said above, but I'd also like to add that maybe they thought their death toll was a tad higher? I completely agree that they were disappointed about the bombs, and that they probably didn't enjoy the killings like they thought they would have. BUT I bet after looking around at all the bodies in library, with the dead victims; the injured and especially those who were unconscious; and those pretending to be dead; I'm sure Eric and Dylan thought the death toll was higher than 13.

I feel like the propane bombs failing to go off was a big morale dropper from the start

1. used propane bombs in the first place - and they failed
and after the propane bombs failed, since they weren't the Mythbusters they didn't have access to a minigun to blow up the tank properly
2. weren't the sharpest tools in the shed in terms of accuracy
3. probably used garbage ammo alongside their garbage guns
4. didn't have good equipment for quick reloads (and shotguns take a while to reload btw)
5. spared some people
6. (mostly) didn't shoot people again to ensure their death unlike Cho Seung-Hui, Anders Breivik, Adam Lanza, Omar Mateen, etc.
7. their other explosives sucked too
8. went around destroying property instead of people at times
9. they talked about knifing people like edgelords

I must agree.

-The adrenaline wore off
-They got bored
-Their plan actually failed, they were only trying to make up for it by shooting people
-They didn't seem to have a plan B in case the bombs didn't explode. They literally just wandered off aimlessly.
-The fact that they saw people behind classrooms and didn't shoot makes me believe they just gave up on the whole thing
They were waiting on the whole police shootout but they might have gotten discouraged to fight them after the plan failed
-Everything ends at some point, maybe their sense of failure was so much that they just wanted to end things before they got arrested

[quote="Jea"]

TheSpiral wrote:

+ their shooting skill was low as well.

One would think being at close range they would be a little bit better, but no they wern't. After seeing the Rampart Range video there was points where they stood close to the bowling pin and didn't even hit it.

Because the second bomb failed at 11:35 and they expected then for the library to explode, kill all the students and and themselves (which they said was gonna happen), as well as cops who rushed in due to their shooting people > mind reading just so stories about morale/adrenaline/giving up at that exact moment for no reason

Also, because Gardner stalled them entering the west entrance. Have to imagine without that the fleeing students injuries would have been more than Stephanie Munson's ankle.

And yeah also true about them not going around and kicking people or something to see if they were still alive.

I believe that Dylan killed less people, because he did have some empathy for the victims.

Norwegian wrote:

I believe that Dylan killed less people, because he did have some empathy for the victims.

But on the other hand, he had more inappropriate comments towards the victims, taunting them, and behaved like he's having the time of his life.
Frankly, I think he was completely out of his mind.

[quote="Onyx"]

Norwegian wrote:

I believe that Dylan killed less people, because he did have some empathy for the victims.

But on the other hand, he had more inappropriate comments towards the victims, taunting them, and behaved like he's having the time of his life.
Frankly, I think he was completely out of his mind.[/quote

Only thing I know is that Langmann suggested that this could imply that he had some sense of empathy still. Because he let people go.

Norwegian wrote:

Onyx wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

I believe that Dylan killed less people, because he did have some empathy for the victims.

But on the other hand, he had more inappropriate comments towards the victims, taunting them, and behaved like he's having the time of his life.
Frankly, I think he was completely out of his mind.[/quote

Only thing I know is that Langmann suggested that this could imply that he had some sense of empathy still. Because he let people go.

Either that (John Savage example) or he wanted to play a god by deciding who will live (Evan Todd example).

Onyx wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

Onyx wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

I believe that Dylan killed less people, because he did have some empathy for the victims.

But on the other hand, he had more inappropriate comments towards the victims, taunting them, and behaved like he's having the time of his life.
Frankly, I think he was completely out of his mind.[/quote

Only thing I know is that Langmann suggested that this could imply that he had some sense of empathy still. Because he let people go.

Either that (John Savage example) or he wanted to play a god by deciding who will live (Evan Todd example).

I have to agree that it was more of a "playing god" thing than it was him having empathy.

Norwegian wrote:

I believe that Dylan killed less people, because he did have some empathy for the victims.

Lance Kirklin asked him for help and Dylan said, "Sure, I'll help you" and shot him at point blank range in the face.
Dylan stepped on the back of Sean Graves, who he had just shot and paralyzed, on his way into the cafeteria and smugly said, "Sorry, dude."
Dylan looked directly at Dan Steepleton, smiled, and shot him.
Dylan called Isaiah Shoels a racial slur and tried yanking him out from under the table.
He ruthlessly mocked people throughout the attack in the library.

Where is the empathy?

Eric killed 8 people. Dylan killed 5. It is only by some miracle that Lance Kirklin and Pat Ireland (both of whom Dylan shot in the HEAD), survived or it could have easily been Eric 8, Dylan 7.

thelmar wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

I believe that Dylan killed less people, because he did have some empathy for the victims.

Lance Kirklin asked him for help and Dylan said, "Sure, I'll help you" and shot him at point blank range in the face.
Dylan stepped on the back of Sean Graves, who he had just shot and paralyzed, on his way into the cafeteria and smugly said, "Sorry, dude."
Dylan looked directly at Dan Steepleton, smiled, and shot him.
Dylan called Isaiah Shoels a racial slur and tried yanking him out from under the table.
He ruthlessly mocked people throughout the attack in the library.

Where is the empathy?

Eric killed 8 people. Dylan killed 5. It is only by some miracle that Lance Kirklin and Pat Ireland (both of whom Dylan shot in the HEAD), survived or it could have easily been Eric 8, Dylan 7.

Yeah, let's drop the "Dylan was the nice one" stuff. It's the main thing Cullen is probably wrong about. Maybe he was a nicer person than Eric but not on 4/20/99, not by much. He pumped Lauren Townsend full of shot, too. Bang bang bang bang.

Dyldo was not "nice." And screw his stupid love poetry and crap. Yeah real heartfelt Dyldo, you're not fooling us after all these years, puh-leeze!!!

Onyx wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

Onyx wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

I believe that Dylan killed less people, because he did have some empathy for the victims.

But on the other hand, he had more inappropriate comments towards the victims, taunting them, and behaved like he's having the time of his life.
Frankly, I think he was completely out of his mind.[/quote

Only thing I know is that Langmann suggested that this could imply that he had some sense of empathy still. Because he let people go.

Either that (John Savage example) or he wanted to play a god by deciding who will live (Evan Todd example).

I wish these weren't said with such confidence when they are definitely inferences and in my view just memes. Another (imo, much more likely) scenario is John was picked to tell their story before a bomb went off and Evan was let live after they realized it wasn't gonna work.  

Letting John live for that reason would fit with the NBK references. Several witnesses seem to say it was about an upcoming bomb, and it makes no sense for him to need to run otherwise. Not like they are forced by Fate to shoot every person who stays in there. But if the bomb was set and ready to go, then he should run. Then it fails. Then Dylan tells Evan he isn't going to kill him. To explain it simply as "Playing God" seems to leave a lot out. And the big differences between the two exchanges - one run if you want to live, the other I will let you live, and what might explain that, are never mentioned, and passed over for some discussion about an unknown shift in Dylan's capricious psychology, or worse making excuses for him.

[quote="hvernon"][quote="Norwegian"][quote="Onyx"]

Norwegian wrote:

I believe that Dylan killed less people, because he did have some empathy for the victims.

But on the other hand, he had more inappropriate comments towards the victims, taunting them, and behaved like he's having the time of his life.
Frankly, I think he was completely out of his mind.[/quote

Only thing I know is that Langmann suggested that this could imply that he had some sense of empathy still. Because he let people go.


Either that (John Savage example) or he wanted to play a god by deciding who will live (Evan Todd example).

I have to agree that it was more of a "playing god" thing than it was him having empathy.

Have to agree with this. For the people Dylan murdered, he taunted, mocked, and played mind games with them. He went around yelling “WOO HOO!” and firing randomly. He used racial slurs. If I’m not mistaken, he was also the boy who made the statement about knifing people, He was straight out cruel, and he acted so much more viciously than Eric did that day. Even Brooks said the audio 911 call was brutal to listen to.

But back to the original question: morale letdown due to the lack of the first explosion, adrenaline wore off, couldn’t become “hardened” and conscience got the better of them, the shock of how terrible it is to kill/injure up close and personal (nothing like movies/TV/video games), even higher loss of morale when the library and car bombs didn’t explode, and the fear of SWAT storming the building.

But IMO, the final straw was the realization that the bomb had failed (they repeated several times that everyone was going to die, they were going to blow up the library anyway) and their huge “mission” was an epic failure.

[quote="Onyx"][quote="Norwegian"]I believe that Dylan killed less people, because he did have some empathy for the victims.

But on the other hand, he had more inappropriate comments towards the victims, taunting them, and behaved like he's having the time of his life.
Frankly, I think he was completely out of his mind.[/quote

Only thing I know is that Langmann suggested that this could imply that he had some sense of empathy still. Because he let people go.


Either that (John Savage example) or he wanted to play a god by deciding who will live (Evan Todd example).

I have to agree that it was more of a "playing god" thing than it was him having empathy.

Have to agree with this. For the people Dylan murdered, he taunted, mocked, and played mind games with them. He went around yelling “WOO HOO!” and firing randomly. He used racial slurs. If I’m not mistaken, he was also the boy who made the statement about knifing people, He was straight out cruel, and he acted so much more viciously than Eric did that day. Even Brooks said the audio 911 call was brutal to listen to. Dylan seemed to get true pleasure from other people’s misery, and the only thing that makes sense is to have his victims feel how he felt during the last few months of his life. He truly got a kick out of “playing God”, holding people’s lives in his hands (Eric, too, but especially Dylan). Also keep in mind that they wanted to spare some people so their story would be told (after all, they discussed in the BT who would direct their movie).

But back to the original question: morale letdown due to the lack of the first explosion, adrenaline wore off, couldn’t become “hardened” and conscience got the better of them, the shock of how terrible it is to kill/injure up close and personal (nothing like movies/TV/video games), even higher loss of morale when the library and car bombs didn’t explode, and the fear of SWAT storming the building.

But IMO, the final straw was the realization that the bomb had failed (they repeated several times that everyone was going to die, they were going to blow up the library anyway) and their huge “mission” was an epic failure.

Empathy? Dylan didn’t have an ounce of empathy that day.

Could be that he was just trying to impress Eric, IDK. Obviosly, you must have lost some sense of empathy to go for a mass shooting. I think Dylan was so depressed that he may have lost some sense of empathy along the way.

Either way, I have to ask: Langmann referred to Dylan as a pseudo- psychopath, but Whats a pseudo- psychopath? Ive never heard of that term before.

I recently read something that stated how exhausting a mass shooting is in reply to a question about how short most are time wise. It makes sense after such a massive adrenalin dump you’d be exhausted no matter what your age. I also think part of the reason they didn’t check for life in the injured is they wanted them to live injured both physically and mentally. Didn’t they say in the BTs they wanted to haunt the survivors? I just read Kacey Ruegsegger Johnson’s book, and she talked about how after viewing the basement tapes she vowed they’d not win and she’d move beyond that day.

Eric also broke his nose apparerntly from the recoil of his sawn off shotgun. The way I see it is that is what like taking the oxygen out of the fire. It snapped him back to reality

shrekt48 wrote:

Eric also broke his nose apparerntly from the recoil of his sawn off shotgun. The way I see it is that is what like taking the oxygen out of the fire. It snapped him back to reality

This has been discussed here before. Based upon what he did before and after breaking his nose (if he actually did break it and not just injure it), the argument that the nose issue slowed him down does not appear to be accurate.
Before hitting his nose in the library, Eric:
- shot at and injured Evan Todd with wood splinters
- shot out the windows and shot at police
- killed Steven Curnow
- shot and wounded Kacey Ruegsegger
- killed Cassie Bernall. He hit his nose when he shot Cassie.

After hitting his nose in the library, Eric:
- taunted Bree Pasquale, repeatedly asking her if she wanted to die and pointing a gun at her head
- killed Isaiah Shoels
- threw explosive device that Makai Hall redirected before it could explode on Dan Steepleton
- jumped on, shook and shot book shelves
- shot and wounded Nicole Nowlen
- shot and wounded John Tomlin
- killed Kelly Fleming
- shot Lauren Townsend (Dylan had already killed her)
- shot and wounded Jeanna Park
- shot and wounded Lisa Kreutz
- killed Daniel Mauser
- shot and wounded Corey DePooter (Dylan would kill him)
- shot and wounded Jennifer Doyle
- shot and wounded Austin Eubanks
- walked around the halls, throwing bombs, shooting at lockers, doors, and trophy cases.
- went to the cafeteria and shot at the bombs trying to ignite them

[quote="thelmar"]

shrekt48 wrote:

This has been discussed here before. Based upon what he did before and after breaking his nose (if he actually did break it and not just injure it), the argument that the nose issue slowed him down does not appear to be accurate.

Then it seems the pain from his injury pretty much fueled him even more. I believed this theory too, but after looking into how many he shot before versus after he injured himself it makes sense he was angered by the pain and put in a numb state. Might be it but we'll never really know. They were both disconnected from reality during the attack that's for sure.

in general, though, I believe they didn't kill more cause the adrenaline wore off. If even for a second, sometime during the shooting they must've felt some kind of anticlimax and regret. Like dang, this wasn't it.