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 Did Dylan kick John Tomlin?

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PostSubject: Did Dylan kick John Tomlin?   Did Dylan kick John Tomlin? Icon_minitimeWed Aug 21, 2013 10:30 am

Quote :
Harris then moved to another table where he fired twice, injuring 16-year-olds Nicole Nowlen and John Tomlin. When Tomlin attempted to move away from the table, Klebold kicked him. Harris then taunted Tomlin's attempt at escape before Klebold shot the youth repeatedly, killing him
Found this on Wikipedia. This is the first I've heard of this - and no source is given. Does anyone have any info on this?
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PostSubject: Re: Did Dylan kick John Tomlin?   Did Dylan kick John Tomlin? Icon_minitimeWed Aug 21, 2013 5:18 pm

Sorry. I can't answer your question on Dylan kicking Tomlin.

But I was just reading the Wikipedia page. It's a pretty damning depiction of Dylan:

-Klebold shot and killed Velasquez, hitting him in the head and back. (Dylan was the first to kill someone in the library)

-As Ireland tried to help Hall, his head rose above the table, Klebold shot him a second time, hitting him twice in the head... (Dylan shot someone for trying to help another student)

-Klebold tried to pull Shoels out from under the table. He called to Harris, shouting, "Reb! There's a nigger over here". (Dylan singled out Shoels, and Eric followed Dylan's lead)

-Schnurr, who had been badly wounded by gunshot wounds and shrapnel, began to cry out, "Oh, God help me!" Klebold approached her and asked her if she believed in God. (Dylan approached her first and taunted her about God)

-When Tomlin attempted to move away from the table, Klebold kicked him.

-At this point, several witnesses later said they heard Harris and Klebold comment that they no longer found a thrill in shooting their victims. Klebold was quoted as saying, "Maybe we should start knifing people, that might be more fun." (Dylan said the knife comment)


No wonder Cullen deliberately forgets to include a description of the library shooting in his book! Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way, but I'm just not seeing the same warm and fuzziness in Dylan that Cullen's seeing.

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PostSubject: Re: Did Dylan kick John Tomlin?   Did Dylan kick John Tomlin? Icon_minitimeWed Aug 21, 2013 6:46 pm

Maybe he is in love with Dylan. Very Happy 

Cullen wrote about Brenda Parker, very bad investigation.
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PostSubject: Re: Did Dylan kick John Tomlin?   Did Dylan kick John Tomlin? Icon_minitimeWed Aug 21, 2013 7:04 pm

MarmaladeSkies wrote:
Quote :
Harris then moved to another table where he fired twice, injuring 16-year-olds Nicole Nowlen and John Tomlin. When Tomlin attempted to move away from the table, Klebold kicked him. Harris then taunted Tomlin's attempt at escape before Klebold shot the youth repeatedly, killing him
Found this on Wikipedia. This is the first I've heard of this - and no source is given. Does anyone have any info on this?
Personally I have heard talk of Dylan kicking somebody before but I don't recall who or where, I assumed it was perhaps a rumor. I notice Wikipedia doesn't seem to source where this particular part of the text was retrieved from.

A very similar quote can be found here:
"When John tried to crawl out, Klebold came around the corner and kicked him while Harris taunted his escape attempt. Klebold then shot him several times in the head and neck, killing him almost instantly."
Although I am not too sure on the reliability, it was taken from: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The Columbine Task Force Library Team concludes the death of John Tomlin is witnessed by Nicole Nowlen (Event #30 and #31) pg(11150)
It is further described as after taunting Valeen Schnurr "Eric Harris is next seen stepping east towards table #6 and pointing the pump action shotgun under that table firing twice (pellets) hitting both Nicole Nowlen and John Tomlin. At approximately the same time Dylan Klebold moves south/east past table #6 standing near John Tomlin (now lying on the east side of table #6) where he then shoots the forenamed four times with the Tech 9" pg(11144)

Nicole Nowlen who was under the table with Tomlin describes similar to the Wikipedia entry that after what sounds like Eric shooting under their table she believed Tomlin had tried to "jump out" to avoid getting shot. She states an individual "stands over" Tomlin and then fired his weapon striking Tomlin in the head. She does not state anything regarding Tomin being kicked. pg(109)

It would be interesting to find out where this original quote came from and also if there are any mentions of the "kicking" incident in any official documents, at a brief glance through the Library Injured / Witnesses I can't seem to see anything.
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PostSubject: Re: Did Dylan kick John Tomlin?   Did Dylan kick John Tomlin? Icon_minitimeWed Aug 21, 2013 10:08 pm

John Tomlin & Nicole Nowlen were at Table 6
Daniel Mauser was at Table 9  


TOMLIN, JOHN 9/1/82 Library
1 shot to chest (graze) - PUMP SG PELLETS Eric Harris
3 shots to head, 1 shot to back - 9MM TEC-9 Dylan Klebold

NOWLEN, NICOLE 12/4/82 - Gunshot wounds to abdomen and shoulder - PUMP SG PELLETS Eric Harris

MAUSER, DANIEL 6/25/83 Library 1 shot (graze) behind ear, 1 shot to nose, through neck - 9MM HI-POINT HARRIS


References to "kick" in the Library:

Patti Blair was at Table 3 page 000300:

Patti Blair stated she next observed one of the suspects (unable to identify} walking in the middle section towards the table that a student was hiding under, (later identified as table #9). Patti Blair explained she could see the student hiding under the table in between separated sections of the book shelves. Patti Blair further clarified she was referring to a pathway in between the sections of book shelves which were to the west of her location. When asked to describe the student under the table, Patti Blair stated she thought he was wearing a blue ballcap, blue sweatshirt and jeans. Patti Blair then stated she could not be absolutely certain concerning that individual's clothing. Patti Blair stated she did distinctly remembering seeing the suspect walk up to the student and kick him and then state, "What's so funny." Patti Blair stated the student did not respond after which the suspect shot the victim in the head. Patti Blair stated all she could see were the suspect's hands which appeared to be holding a weapon which she could not describe. Patti Blair stated as the victim was shot she recalled the victim moving abruptly after which he was shot again. Patti Blair stated she then heard one of the suspects state, "Did you see that he jumped up at me." Patti Blair went onto state that comment was followed by another statement something to the effect of "Oh did you see that he like jolted, I can't believe that." When asked to identify on the diagram where the victim was located when he was shot, Patti Blair drew a table which would be located between tables #7 and #9 on the diagram. Patti Blair stated she was certain the table ends ran east and west and not north and south. Patti Blair then placed an X in that table indicating where the victim was located when he was shot. Patti Blair told 10 she could not be certain exactly where the table was but she knew she was looking in a northwesterly direction between the book shelves and could see the table.

Heather Jacobson was at Table 3 page 000430:

Heather Jacobson next indicated after the student was told to leave, she then observed the suspect she first described (taller suspect with long hair), walk up towards table #9 According to Heather Jacobson, she was able to see table #9 through a pathway separating the bookshelves 10 clarified with Heather Jacobson this was the student she referred to earlier who was shot When asked to describe what that student was wearing, Heather Jacobson stated she believed he was wearing some type of a blue shirt and possibly blue jeans Heather Jacobson. was unable to be more specific concerning her observations of that students appearance. Heather Jacobson continued with her explanation by stating, as the suspect she first described moved towards table #9, she saw him stop a couple of feet south, of that table. Heather Jacobson next heard the suspect state, "hey, something." Heather Jacobson clarified she could not hear exactly what the suspect said, but then saw the "chairs move" that were attempting to conceal the student hiding under the table. According to Heather Jacobson, the suspect either kicked or used his hands to move the chairs Heather Jacobson explained the chairs were moved in a rapid reckless manner, after which, the victim was shot twice. Heather Jacobson stated it was her recollection after the suspect had shot the victim twice, the other suspect asked, "what was he trying to do, charge you?" Heather Jacobson related there was some laughter regarding that situation, in addition to other comments, but she could net recall any additional detail, After providing the above recollection, Heather Jacobson clarified she did not recall at what point the two above situations occurred, but knew they occurred in the center section of the library.
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PostSubject: Re: Did Dylan kick John Tomlin?   Did Dylan kick John Tomlin? Icon_minitimeThu Aug 22, 2013 12:25 am

em81 wrote:
Maybe he is in love with Dylan. Very Happy 
I've considered that too! Very Happy


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PostSubject: Re: Did Dylan kick John Tomlin?   Did Dylan kick John Tomlin? Icon_minitimeThu Aug 22, 2013 1:23 am

StinkyOldGrapes wrote:
em81 wrote:
Maybe he is in love with Dylan. Very Happy 
I've considered that too! Very Happy

I would understand, I like Dylans hair in the last day of his life. Very Happy He thougt there must one bad and one good. You know like in fairy tales...
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PostSubject: Re: Did Dylan kick John Tomlin?   Did Dylan kick John Tomlin? Icon_minitimeFri Aug 30, 2013 9:09 pm

Dylan is one messed up guy

Apparently...I'm not sure if it's 100% true but I heard when Dylan killed Tomlin, Tomlin had convulsions, and Dylan was laughing

That's awful.

By the way Cullen, is Dylan still the little sweetheart when he blew half of Lance Kirklin's face off?
Lance: Help...
Dylan: Sure, I'll help you.....
-shotgun to face-

Dylan was such a sweetheart:roll: 
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PostSubject: Re: Did Dylan kick John Tomlin?   Did Dylan kick John Tomlin? Icon_minitimeFri Aug 30, 2013 9:27 pm

Could someone point me really quick to the page #s where Cullen describes Dylan as "warm, "fuzzy," "a fairy tale hero," "a good guy," or "a little sweetheart"?
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PostSubject: Re: Did Dylan kick John Tomlin?   Did Dylan kick John Tomlin? Icon_minitimeSun Sep 01, 2013 11:17 pm

StinkyOldGrapes wrote:
Sorry. I can't answer your question on Dylan kicking Tomlin.

But I was just reading the Wikipedia page. It's a pretty damning depiction of Dylan:

-Klebold shot and killed Velasquez, hitting him in the head and back. (Dylan was the first to kill someone in the library)

-As Ireland tried to help Hall, his head rose above the table, Klebold shot him a second time, hitting him twice in the head... (Dylan shot someone for trying to help another student)

-Klebold tried to pull Shoels out from under the table. He called to Harris, shouting, "Reb! There's a nigger over here". (Dylan singled out Shoels, and Eric followed Dylan's lead)

-Schnurr, who had been badly wounded by gunshot wounds and shrapnel, began to cry out, "Oh, God help me!" Klebold approached her and asked her if she believed in God. (Dylan approached her first and taunted her about God)

-When Tomlin attempted to move away from the table, Klebold kicked him.

-At this point, several witnesses later said they heard Harris and Klebold comment that they no longer found a thrill in shooting their victims. Klebold was quoted as saying, "Maybe we should start knifing people, that might be more fun." (Dylan said the knife comment)


No wonder Cullen deliberately forgets to include a description of the library shooting in his book! Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way, but I'm just not seeing the same warm and fuzziness in Dylan that Cullen's seeing.
This got me thinking as to why Dylan might've been more cruel in the library compared to anywhere else during the shooting. Perhaps the setting of being up close and personal with their victims hiding got to his head and made him feel even more powerful. It wasn't just shooting at people running away, it was having almost total control of the fate of each person in the library at the time. He got to talk to them and scare them all on an individual basis. It doesn't sound warm and fuzzy to me, either. Cullen's ideal version of Dylan would have felt even guiltier and had an even harder time shooting people in such close quarters, but the real Dylan reveled in it.
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PostSubject: Re: Did Dylan kick John Tomlin?   Did Dylan kick John Tomlin? Icon_minitimeWed Oct 30, 2013 2:09 am

fatlittleparasite wrote:
StinkyOldGrapes wrote:
Sorry. I can't answer your question on Dylan kicking Tomlin.

But I was just reading the Wikipedia page. It's a pretty damning depiction of Dylan:

-Klebold shot and killed Velasquez, hitting him in the head and back. (Dylan was the first to kill someone in the library)

-As Ireland tried to help Hall, his head rose above the table, Klebold shot him a second time, hitting him twice in the head... (Dylan shot someone for trying to help another student)

-Klebold tried to pull Shoels out from under the table. He called to Harris, shouting, "Reb! There's a nigger over here". (Dylan singled out Shoels, and Eric followed Dylan's lead)

-Schnurr, who had been badly wounded by gunshot wounds and shrapnel, began to cry out, "Oh, God help me!" Klebold approached her and asked her if she believed in God. (Dylan approached her first and taunted her about God)

-When Tomlin attempted to move away from the table, Klebold kicked him.

-At this point, several witnesses later said they heard Harris and Klebold comment that they no longer found a thrill in shooting their victims. Klebold was quoted as saying, "Maybe we should start knifing people, that might be more fun." (Dylan said the knife comment)


No wonder Cullen deliberately forgets to include a description of the library shooting in his book! Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way, but I'm just not seeing the same warm and fuzziness in Dylan that Cullen's seeing.
This got me thinking as to why Dylan might've been more cruel in the library compared to anywhere else during the shooting. Perhaps the setting of being up close and personal with their victims hiding got to his head and made him feel even more powerful. It wasn't just shooting at people running away, it was having almost total control of the fate of each person in the library at the time. He got to talk to them and scare them all on an individual basis. It doesn't sound warm and fuzzy to me, either. Cullen's ideal version of Dylan would have felt even guiltier and had an even harder time shooting people in such close quarters, but the real Dylan reveled in it.
Yep ,Dylan had the time of his life. He made his choice to kill and he enjoyed it !
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PostSubject: Re: Did Dylan kick John Tomlin?   Did Dylan kick John Tomlin? Icon_minitimeSun May 24, 2015 12:58 pm

IMO what Dylan did at the school has very little to do with what he was like in his everyday life.

Dylan knew they were there to die, and he probably wanted to have a last moment taste of how it would feel like to be as bad as he could be.

There was no parents there to stop him, there were no consequences to his actions - he could do anything.

He was like a kid in a candy store, only replace candy with death and violence.

If he wanted to knife people, get up close, he probably could've kicked somebody - why not? Who would've told him it was a bad thing?
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PostSubject: Re: Did Dylan kick John Tomlin?   Did Dylan kick John Tomlin? Icon_minitimeMon May 25, 2015 11:59 pm

rik75 wrote:
fatlittleparasite wrote:
StinkyOldGrapes wrote:
Sorry. I can't answer your question on Dylan kicking Tomlin.

But I was just reading the Wikipedia page. It's a pretty damning depiction of Dylan:

-Klebold shot and killed Velasquez, hitting him in the head and back. (Dylan was the first to kill someone in the library)

-As Ireland tried to help Hall, his head rose above the table, Klebold shot him a second time, hitting him twice in the head... (Dylan shot someone for trying to help another student)

-Klebold tried to pull Shoels out from under the table. He called to Harris, shouting, "Reb! There's a nigger over here". (Dylan singled out Shoels, and Eric followed Dylan's lead)

-Schnurr, who had been badly wounded by gunshot wounds and shrapnel, began to cry out, "Oh, God help me!" Klebold approached her and asked her if she believed in God. (Dylan approached her first and taunted her about God)

-When Tomlin attempted to move away from the table, Klebold kicked him.

-At this point, several witnesses later said they heard Harris and Klebold comment that they no longer found a thrill in shooting their victims. Klebold was quoted as saying, "Maybe we should start knifing people, that might be more fun." (Dylan said the knife comment)


No wonder Cullen deliberately forgets to include a description of the library shooting in his book! Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way, but I'm just not seeing the same warm and fuzziness in Dylan that Cullen's seeing.
This got me thinking as to why Dylan might've been more cruel in the library compared to anywhere else during the shooting. Perhaps the setting of being up close and personal with their victims hiding got to his head and made him feel even more powerful. It wasn't just shooting at people running away, it was having almost total control of the fate of each person in the library at the time. He got to talk to them and scare them all on an individual basis. It doesn't sound warm and fuzzy to me, either. Cullen's ideal version of Dylan would have felt even guiltier and had an even harder time shooting people in such close quarters, but the real Dylan reveled in it.
Yep ,Dylan had the time of his life. He made his choice to kill and he enjoyed it !

Here's my theory as to why it took Dylan a while to get involved:

Dylan was involved in NBK mostly as a way to kill himself. At the same time he needed a push to do it. I believe Dylan was comfortable with Eric because Eric's idea of NBK was "big" enough that it would mean death would be assured. A simple school shooting wouldnt give him that. 2 time bombs and hundreds of deaths would. You don't go back to living a normal life after that. Something that big would assure him he'd either be shot by police or he would have to commit suicide.

At the beginning of the attack the bombs didnt go off as planned. I think it worried Dylan and maybe he had regrets in that moment. Not that he felt bad, he was just worried he wouldn't get to go out in the destruction he wanted. Thats why he wasnt as involved at that point. Nor did he want to get shot outside after only a kill or two. By the time they got inside multiple people had died and they set off some bombs. I think it raised Dylan's spirits seeing the carnage and made him feel like maybe the ending he wanted was possible. Once the final realization fell upon him that he would indeed have to die afterwards he kicked into full gear in the library. To me Dylan wanted his death to be an EVENT, even more so than Eric. It wasnt till they entered the school that Dylan was sure NBK was his event.
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PostSubject: Re: Did Dylan kick John Tomlin?   Did Dylan kick John Tomlin? Icon_minitimeWed May 27, 2015 2:15 pm

I do not think Dylan deliberately shot Ireland just because Ireland was trying to help anyone. My best bet is that Dylan saw movement and that is what drew his attention.I could be wrong though.

I think both shooters had a huge power-trip in the library and I would not single one above the other in that regard. This was a textbook, classic power trip, rigth down to the "pekaboo" moments and "you relaly believe in god?" remarks.

Nirvana92 wrote:
Dylan was involved in NBK mostly as a way to kill himself. At the same time he needed a push to do it. I believe Dylan was comfortable with Eric because Eric's idea of NBK was "big" enough that it would mean death would be assured. A simple school shooting wouldnt give him that. 2 time bombs and hundreds of deaths would. You don't go back to living a normal life after that. Something that big would assure him he'd either be shot by police or he would have to commit suicide.

At the beginning of the attack the bombs didnt go off as planned. I think it worried Dylan and maybe he had regrets in that moment. Not that he felt bad, he was just worried he wouldn't get to go out in the destruction he wanted. Thats why he wasnt as involved at that point. Nor did he want to get shot outside after only a kill or two. By the time they got inside multiple people had died and they set off some bombs. I think it raised Dylan's spirits seeing the carnage and made him feel like maybe the ending he wanted was possible. Once the final realization fell upon him that he would indeed have to die afterwards he kicked into full gear in the library. To me Dylan wanted his death to be an EVENT, even more so than Eric. It wasnt till they entered the school that Dylan was sure NBK was his event.

I'd agree on some of what you wrote, but not all.
First of all, while I think you hit the nail on the head by saying taht for Dylan this was first and foemost a glorified suicide, it needs to be said that by all evidence it was Dylan that first came up with an idea of a spree killing, not Eric.
So saying that NBK was "Eric's idea" is likley not true. My best bet is that was Dylan's idea, though it must have been very blurry, fuzy and unspecific. It was in all probability Eric who turned it into a real spree shooting plan, but it wa snot Eric's original idea.

I think both Eric and Dylan knew they were gonna die and there was not a meoment of doubt all through the shooting. The library massacre "kicked both into full gear" because it was a power trip first and foremost. It wasn't the carnage itself that imho gave them such a kick, it was the power behind choosing who will ie and live. That's why all the talkign to victims and taunts and "pekaboo" moments.

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PostSubject: Re: Did Dylan kick John Tomlin?   Did Dylan kick John Tomlin? Icon_minitimeThu May 28, 2015 10:59 pm

I think Dylan shot Ireland because at this point the boys, even though heavily armed (for a school), were very outnumbered, and it was a bit scary to them IMO.

Sure, they could have killed anyone who would approach them, but if faced with a crowd, there was a possibility they could have been tackled and overpowered, so they needed to stay in control, suppressing any possible opposition, punishing any possibility of moving against them.

Dylan saw movement and fired, ironically following Eric's words - "if it moves, kill it, if it doesn't burn it".
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PostSubject: Re: Did Dylan kick John Tomlin?   Did Dylan kick John Tomlin? Icon_minitimeMon Jun 08, 2015 9:57 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Did Dylan kick John Tomlin?   Did Dylan kick John Tomlin? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 09, 2015 5:55 am

meenwhile wrote:
sororityalpha wrote:
John Tomlin & Nicole Nowlen were at Table 6
Daniel Mauser was at Table 9  


TOMLIN, JOHN 9/1/82 Library
1 shot to chest (graze) - PUMP SG PELLETS Eric Harris
3 shots to head, 1 shot to back - 9MM TEC-9 Dylan Klebold

NOWLEN, NICOLE 12/4/82 - Gunshot wounds to abdomen and shoulder - PUMP SG PELLETS Eric Harris

MAUSER, DANIEL 6/25/83 Library 1 shot (graze) behind ear, 1 shot to nose, through neck - 9MM HI-POINT HARRIS


References to "kick" in the Library:

Patti Blair was at Table 3 page 000300:

Patti Blair stated she next observed one of the suspects (unable to identify} walking in the middle section towards the table that a student was hiding under, (later identified as table [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]). Patti Blair explained she could see the student hiding under the table in between separated sections of the book shelves. Patti Blair further clarified she was referring to a pathway in between the sections of book shelves which were to the west of her location. When asked to describe the student under the table, Patti Blair stated she thought he was wearing a blue ballcap, blue sweatshirt and jeans. Patti Blair then stated she could not be absolutely certain concerning that individual's clothing. Patti Blair stated she did distinctly remembering seeing the suspect walk up to the student and kick him and then state, "What's so funny." Patti Blair stated the student did not respond after which the suspect shot the victim in the head. Patti Blair stated all she could see were the suspect's hands which appeared to be holding a weapon which she could not describe. Patti Blair stated as the victim was shot she recalled the victim moving abruptly after which he was shot again. Patti Blair stated she then heard one of the suspects state, "Did you see that he jumped up at me." Patti Blair went onto state that comment was followed by another statement something to the effect of "Oh did you see that he like jolted, I can't believe that." When asked to identify on the diagram where the victim was located when he was shot, Patti Blair drew a table which would be located between tables [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] on the diagram. Patti Blair stated she was certain the table ends ran east and west and not north and south. Patti Blair then placed an X in that table indicating where the victim was located when he was shot. Patti Blair told 10 she could not be certain exactly where the table was but she knew she was looking in a northwesterly direction between the book shelves and could see the table.

Heather Jacobson was at Table 3 page 000430:

Heather Jacobson next indicated after the student was told to leave, she then observed the suspect she first described (taller suspect with long hair), walk up towards table [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] According to Heather Jacobson, she was able to see table [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] through a pathway separating the bookshelves 10 clarified with Heather Jacobson this was the student she referred to earlier who was shot When asked to describe what that student was wearing, Heather Jacobson stated she believed he was wearing some type of a blue shirt and possibly blue jeans Heather Jacobson. was unable to be more specific concerning her observations of that students appearance. Heather Jacobson continued with her explanation by stating, as the suspect she first described moved towards table [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], she saw him stop a couple of feet south, of that table. Heather Jacobson next heard the suspect state, "hey, something." Heather Jacobson clarified she could not hear exactly what the suspect said, but then saw the "chairs move" that were attempting to conceal the student hiding under the table. According to Heather Jacobson, the suspect either kicked or used his hands to move the chairs Heather Jacobson explained the chairs were moved in a rapid reckless manner, after which, the victim was shot twice. Heather Jacobson stated it was her recollection after the suspect had shot the victim twice, the other suspect asked, "what was he trying to do, charge you?" Heather Jacobson related there was some laughter regarding that situation, in addition to other comments, but she could net recall any additional detail, After providing the above recollection, Heather Jacobson clarified she did not recall at what point the two above situations occurred, but knew they occurred in the center section of the library.

Based on this information, it seems clear that Dylan kicked Daniel Mauser prior to shooting him, and John Tomlin was not kicked.

I think it was Eric who actually shot and killed Daniel. I don't think he was kicked. Daniel apparently threw a chair at Eric and then Eric shot him in the face.

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PostSubject: Re: Did Dylan kick John Tomlin?   Did Dylan kick John Tomlin? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 09, 2015 10:34 am

Sabratha wrote:
I do not think Dylan deliberately shot Ireland just because Ireland was trying to help anyone. My best bet is that Dylan saw movement and that is what drew his attention.I could be wrong though.

I think both shooters had a huge power-trip in the library and I would not single one above the other in that regard. This was a textbook, classic power trip, rigth down to the "pekaboo" moments and "you relaly believe in god?" remarks.

Nirvana92 wrote:
Dylan was involved in NBK mostly as a way to kill himself. At the same time he needed a push to do it. I believe Dylan was comfortable with Eric because Eric's idea of NBK was "big" enough that it would mean death would be assured. A simple school shooting wouldnt give him that. 2 time bombs and hundreds of deaths would. You don't go back to living a normal life after that. Something that big would assure him he'd either be shot by police or he would have to commit suicide.

At the beginning of the attack the bombs didnt go off as planned. I think it worried Dylan and maybe he had regrets in that moment. Not that he felt bad, he was just worried he wouldn't get to go out in the destruction he wanted. Thats why he wasnt as involved at that point. Nor did he want to get shot outside after only a kill or two. By the time they got inside multiple people had died and they set off some bombs. I think it raised Dylan's spirits seeing the carnage and made him feel like maybe the ending he wanted was possible. Once the final realization fell upon him that he would indeed have to die afterwards he kicked into full gear in the library. To me Dylan wanted his death to be an EVENT, even more so than Eric. It wasnt till they entered the school that Dylan was sure NBK was his event.

I'd agree on some of what you wrote, but not all.
First of all, while I think you hit the nail on the head by saying taht for Dylan this was first and foemost a glorified suicide, it needs to be said that by all evidence it was Dylan that first came up with an idea of a spree killing, not Eric.
So saying that NBK was "Eric's idea" is likley not true. My best bet is that was Dylan's idea, though it must have been very blurry, fuzy and unspecific. It was in all probability Eric who turned it into a real spree shooting plan, but it wa snot Eric's original idea.

I think both Eric and Dylan knew they were gonna die and there was not a meoment of doubt all through the shooting. The library massacre "kicked both into full gear" because it was a power trip first and foremost. It wasn't the carnage itself that imho gave them such a kick, it was the power behind choosing who will ie and live. That's why all the talkign to victims and taunts and "pekaboo" moments.

That's a good point. Maybe Dylan only started getting into it when the killing became more intimate. There's a big difference between shooting at people running out in the open and killing people cowering. I'd imagine that would be more fun for someone like Dylan. Dylan craved power much more than Eric. Eric was more interested in infamy after the fact and to "leave a lasting impression on the world". Dylan wanted to experience god hood, if even for a moment. He wanted to fully unleash his wrath and hate. To be all powerful. I don't think it took much to get Eric into killing. He was into it from the second he fired his first shot. I do think seeing Dylan enjoy himself did give Eric a little kick though.

Eric was the big picture guy. He wanted those bombs to detonate so he could show the world his hate. Dylan didn't care as much for that it seems. As long as his victims knew he was in control he'd be content. The bombs would have been simply icing on the cake to him. Sure everyone would know his name and what he and Eric did that day, but it wouldn't matter. Once he was dead and in halcyon with his love this world wouldn't matter. That's the scariest part of the whole deal with Columbine. The boys were polar opposites when it came to what they got individually from their violent acts:

Eric was grandiose with his urge to kill. Everyone would know his name even if he had to blow up his school and everyone in it.
Dylan was vengeful with his urge to die. He'd kill everyone he could if it meant he'd finally be at peace.

They were truly a 1-in-a-million pair.
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Did Dylan kick John Tomlin? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Did Dylan kick John Tomlin?   Did Dylan kick John Tomlin? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 09, 2015 8:55 pm

Nirvana92 wrote:


They were truly a 1-in-a-million pair.

More like a 1-in-a-billion pair. Thank God for that.

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"I will have a love, someone who is me in a way. Someday ... possibly thru this life, maybe another, but it will happen..."  --DK, The Book of Existences

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