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 ‘Cruzers’ and the Dark World of School-Shooter Culture Online

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PostSubject: ‘Cruzers’ and the Dark World of School-Shooter Culture Online   ‘Cruzers’ and the Dark World of School-Shooter Culture Online Icon_minitimeSun Apr 08, 2018 6:48 pm

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This is the usual story on mass shooting enthusiasts in their latest incarnation as Cruzers but here's an interesting excerpt, especially the final sentence.
Quote :
The concern is that these online groups ended up normalizing violence, as they connect kids in ways that previously wouldn’t have been possible. Peter Langman, an expert who has written extensively on school shooters, says that these forums or chat groups give young people a virtual peer group and could unwittingly reinforce delusions of grandeur that could set kids on a path to violence.

Two Finnish cultural anthropologists, Jenni Raitanen and Atte Oksanen, interviewed several dozen people who claimed to have a “deep interest” in school shootings for a research paper they released earlier this year (a month before the Parkland shooting). What they discovered behind screen names like “Rebby” and “Vodka” (nicknames the Columbine shooters had for themselves) was a strange mix of people, from prurient researchers to fangirls to young people with an encyclopedic knowledge about Columbine and copycats, people who clearly wish to commit a shooting of their own.


It’s the undeniable presence of these kinds of kids that explains why FBI investigators monitor some of these sites (they asked that I not name them specifically) and why, in the last several weeks, they have been looking for evidence that Nikolas Cruz was in them, too.

Also, a quote from Sue Klebold.
Quote :
What all these incidents have in common is that someone, somewhere, says they should have seen the signs. Perhaps no one thinks about this more than Sue Klebold, Dylan Klebold’s mother. I sat down with her a couple of months ago in Denver. As a general matter, she avoids websites that talk about Dylan or her family, but she’s aware that these Columbine tribute sites exist. “The fact that Dylan and Eric have an online following is very frightening and very sad,” she told me. “It is very frightening because there are so many individuals who identify with what they did, and very sad because people feel disconnected and disenfranchised and this has become symbolic for people who feel left out, alone, vengeful, angry, and hurt. I think it’s sad that people make heroes out of disturbed kids.”

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PostSubject: Response to: sscc   ‘Cruzers’ and the Dark World of School-Shooter Culture Online Icon_minitimeSun Apr 08, 2018 6:57 pm

[quote="sscc"]
This is the usual story on mass shooting enthusiasts in their latest incarnation as Cruzers but here's an interesting excerpt, especially the final sentence.
Quote :
The concern is that these online groups ended up normalizing violence, as they connect kids in ways that previously wouldn’t have been possible. Peter Langman, an expert who has written extensively on school shooters, says that these forums or chat groups give young people a virtual peer group and could unwittingly reinforce delusions of grandeur that could set kids on a path to violence.

Two Finnish cultural anthropologists, Jenni Raitanen and Atte Oksanen, interviewed several dozen people who claimed to have a “deep interest” in school shootings for a research paper they released earlier this year (a month before the Parkland shooting). What they discovered behind screen names like “Rebby” and “Vodka” (nicknames the Columbine shooters had for themselves) was a strange mix of people, from prurient researchers to fangirls to young people with an encyclopedic knowledge about Columbine and copycats, people who clearly wish to commit a shooting of their own.


It’s the undeniable presence of these kinds of kids that explains why FBI investigators monitor some of these sites (they asked that I not name them specifically) and why, in the last several weeks, they have been looking for evidence that Nikolas Cruz was in them, too.

Also, a quote from Sue Klebold.
Quote :
What all these incidents have in common is that someone, somewhere, says they should have seen the signs. Perhaps no one thinks about this more than Sue Klebold, Dylan Klebold’s mother. I sat down with her a couple of months ago in Denver. As a general matter, she avoids websites that talk about Dylan or her family, but she’s aware that these Columbine tribute sites exist. “The fact that Dylan and Eric have an online following is very frightening and very sad,” she told me. “It is very frightening because there are so many individuals who identify with what they did, and very sad because people feel disconnected and disenfranchised and this has become symbolic for people who feel left out, alone, vengeful, angry, and hurt. I think it’s sad that people make heroes out of disturbed kids.”
Interesting.
Personally, I am just interested in the psychology of the people who commit these crimes but are not even my main interest (In general and even in psychology).
I really don't understand how someone could identify with a mass murderer to be honest.
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PostSubject: Re: ‘Cruzers’ and the Dark World of School-Shooter Culture Online   ‘Cruzers’ and the Dark World of School-Shooter Culture Online Icon_minitimeSun Apr 08, 2018 7:15 pm

CALU wrote:
Personally, I am just interested in the psychology of the people who commit these crimes but are not even my main interest (In general and even in psychology).
I really don't understand how someone could identify with a mass murderer to be honest.
Since you are interested in psychology, that might be a topic worth exploring. cyclops

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PostSubject: Re: ‘Cruzers’ and the Dark World of School-Shooter Culture Online   ‘Cruzers’ and the Dark World of School-Shooter Culture Online Icon_minitimeSun Apr 08, 2018 7:17 pm

CALU wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

This is the usual story on mass shooting enthusiasts in their latest incarnation as Cruzers but here's an interesting excerpt, especially the final sentence.
Quote :
The concern is that these online groups ended up normalizing violence, as they connect kids in ways that previously wouldn’t have been possible. Peter Langman, an expert who has written extensively on school shooters, says that these forums or chat groups give young people a virtual peer group and could unwittingly reinforce delusions of grandeur that could set kids on a path to violence.

Two Finnish cultural anthropologists, Jenni Raitanen and Atte Oksanen, interviewed several dozen people who claimed to have a “deep interest” in school shootings for a research paper they released earlier this year (a month before the Parkland shooting). What they discovered behind screen names like “Rebby” and “Vodka” (nicknames the Columbine shooters had for themselves) was a strange mix of people, from prurient researchers to fangirls to young people with an encyclopedic knowledge about Columbine and copycats, people who clearly wish to commit a shooting of their own.


It’s the undeniable presence of these kinds of kids that explains why FBI investigators monitor some of these sites (they asked that I not name them specifically) and why, in the last several weeks, they have been looking for evidence that Nikolas Cruz was in them, too.

Also, a quote from Sue Klebold.
Quote :
What all these incidents have in common is that someone, somewhere, says they should have seen the signs. Perhaps no one thinks about this more than Sue Klebold, Dylan Klebold’s mother. I sat down with her a couple of months ago in Denver. As a general matter, she avoids websites that talk about Dylan or her family, but she’s aware that these Columbine tribute sites exist. “The fact that Dylan and Eric have an online following is very frightening and very sad,” she told me. “It is very frightening because there are so many individuals who identify with what they did, and very sad because people feel disconnected and disenfranchised and this has become symbolic for people who feel left out, alone, vengeful, angry, and hurt. I think it’s sad that people make heroes out of disturbed kids.”
Interesting.
Personally, I am just interested in the psychology of the people who commit these crimes but are not even my main interest (In general and even in psychology).

I really don't understand how someone could identify with a mass murderer to be honest.



I think she talks a little about it in AMR

I wonder if she knows some people who run and also post on the sites don’t condone but can somewhat empathize with Dylan because of things they may have gone through?

I understand what she’s saying but I have to think does she want everyone to think of her son as only a monster? Or that he had some good in him?

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PostSubject: Response to: sscc   ‘Cruzers’ and the Dark World of School-Shooter Culture Online Icon_minitimeSun Apr 08, 2018 8:04 pm

@sscc wrote:
CALU wrote:
Personally, I am just interested in the psychology of the people who commit these crimes but are not even my main interest (In general and even in psychology).
I really don't understand how someone could identify with a mass murderer to be honest.
Since you are interested in psychology, that might be a topic worth exploring. cyclops
I know that they might feel a connection with them because their lives might have had similarities (For example being bullied and what not), but I don't understand why that feeling of connection regards such a negative figure as a mass murderer and not, for example, a more positive figure like a firefighter and other kind of every day heroes.
The fact that they feel a connection with these kind of people might indicate a conscious or unconscious desire to harm others to resolve their problems.
Atleast this is my opinion.
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PostSubject: Re: ‘Cruzers’ and the Dark World of School-Shooter Culture Online   ‘Cruzers’ and the Dark World of School-Shooter Culture Online Icon_minitimeSun Apr 08, 2018 8:09 pm

CALU wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
CALU wrote:
Personally, I am just interested in the psychology of the people who commit these crimes but are not even my main interest (In general and even in psychology).
I really don't understand how someone could identify with a mass murderer to be honest.
Since you are interested in psychology, that might be a topic worth exploring. cyclops
I know that they might feel a connection with them because their lives might have had similarities (For example being bullied and what not), but I don't understand why that feeling of connection regards such a negative figure as a mass murderer and not, for example, a more positive figure like a firefighter and other kind of every day heroes.
The fact that they feel a connection with these kind of people might indicate a conscious or unconscious desire to harm others to resolve their problems.
Atleast this is my opinion.

For me, when I was younger and Columbine happened it was a connection of feeling like I needed to be heard. I was bullied, angry and felt like I wasn't allowed to be human (much like what Dylan writes about) Sue knows people like that have been around, she spoke to people on the phone that felt empathy for Dylan and her family. My empathy for Eric and Dylan end at around 10:58 when they planted the bombs chose to kill. There is no excuse or empathy for that.

I also worry when you have kids that age, who you can see great things for, they were troubled but there was a future for them that could have been positive, but they were SO angry and blind that they took everyone down with them. People that may even have been good to them and kind. It's HS and you just don't know because you're bogged down in all the HS shit....

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PostSubject: Re: ‘Cruzers’ and the Dark World of School-Shooter Culture Online   ‘Cruzers’ and the Dark World of School-Shooter Culture Online Icon_minitimeSun Apr 08, 2018 9:31 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

I think she talks a little about it in AMR

I wonder if she knows some people who run and also post on the sites don’t condone but can somewhat empathize with Dylan because of things they may have gone through?

I understand what she’s saying but I have to think does she want everyone to think of her son as only a monster? Or that he had some good in him?

I think it's a lot about wanting Dylan for herself, and not wanting to share him with anyone else (but Tom and Byron). Can't remember where it's from, but she's talking about how every time she sees an artist make a song or a movie about him (and eric) she gets possessive and jealous (para phrasing). If everyone thinks of him as a monster they wouldn't want anything to do with him, and Sue could keep the memory of him untarnished and alone.

I agree though, i don't think she's been into tumblr too deep and found that people don't actually condone but rather empathize and see themselves in Dylan. I think she would've been relieved to know that not everyone thinks of her son as a godlike killer that did what they dream to do, but rather love (they really do love) the parts of him that Sue did, too.

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PostSubject: Re: ‘Cruzers’ and the Dark World of School-Shooter Culture Online   ‘Cruzers’ and the Dark World of School-Shooter Culture Online Icon_minitimeThu Dec 10, 2020 8:47 pm

I think I can only imagine if I had a child and they did something like this, Id be horrified to find that someone regards them as heroes. Sure, they exists.

But how many are they? I think most Columbiners are merely kids that identify with an image that they see of Dylan and Eric. Not the actual shooting. I think its more the bullying narrative that they relate to. And, sure, this is obviously not hard to understand. Bullying have some really dark and emotional scars that can affect people really badly.

At the same time, theres hybristophilia. Or Bonnie and Clyde syndrome. So I kind of feel like this isnt solely about bullying, but they see something attractive in a person that has done a violent act. And, also, from what Ive read they have issues with mental illness.

Shouldnt people therefore reach out with empathy and understanding? Of course, not leveling this towards people that have been affected by something like a mass shooting, be it directly or indirectly. That would be unreasonable.

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PostSubject: Re: ‘Cruzers’ and the Dark World of School-Shooter Culture Online   ‘Cruzers’ and the Dark World of School-Shooter Culture Online Icon_minitimeSun Dec 13, 2020 8:26 pm

I personally find the majority percent of the groups that this article is referring to are not even that especially interested in the crime itself, just looking for attractive-passing young people, overlooking all the contrary beliefs that may be held by looking up to such a person. They do not seem interested in information, they want edits and selfies and to read rants about "boohoo life is unfair i'm angry and am going to ennact my fantasies" and other things they can relate to and project a sense of juvenile justice against forces in their own lives that they feel are oppressive.

I do not usually get along with columbiners and serial killer people or those into internet active columbine copycats, especially not the younger of the demographic. I find it even more of an uninteresting/unconcerning phenomena when you consider the prospect that many of those in that circle will never ennact anything, and many of those who do would have acted out anyway and continued their interest even without some sort of community to egg them on. Thus such an online community acts as just an outlet for such behaviors/thoughts/feelings and not a cause.

Before this is taken too personally i'd like to say that I like to think of this forum as not so shallow as the other places I read this sort of material, I just hope someone else who has come across and noticed similar grievances to mine feel assured of their feelings by this. Rant over, sorry for the bitter tone but it's just so very tiring, and the never-ending focus on aesthetics and beliefs rather than making information more available is frustrating. I've had so few conversations with anyone who even read the 13k, but everyone's seen zero hour.

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PostSubject: Re: ‘Cruzers’ and the Dark World of School-Shooter Culture Online   ‘Cruzers’ and the Dark World of School-Shooter Culture Online Icon_minitimeSun Dec 13, 2020 11:43 pm

most of the time, columbiners and the sub sections of columbiners aren't even that interested in the case itself. they just go "school shooter uwu" then leave it. it's really strange.

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PostSubject: Re: ‘Cruzers’ and the Dark World of School-Shooter Culture Online   ‘Cruzers’ and the Dark World of School-Shooter Culture Online Icon_minitimeMon Jan 25, 2021 12:33 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
most of the time, columbiners and the sub sections of columbiners aren't even that interested in the case itself. they just go "school shooter uwu" then leave it. it's really strange.

They probably do it to A. piss people off and troll them or B. look edgy. There are definitely people attracted to mass shooters but i'm sure most of the "nikfam" and "Holmies" just think they are edgy or want to troll, very offensive yes but i'm not sure they even study these cases or are attracted to the shooter.

Think of this, they probably want to be "look at me and how different I am!".

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“There isn’t an open sky or endless field to be found where I reside, not is there light or salvation to be discovered. Right about now I feel as low as I ever have. So fucking naive man, so fucking naive. Always expecting change when I know nothing ever changes… I sacrifice no more for others, part of me has fucking died and I hate this shit. I’m living every mans nightmare and that single fact alone is kicking my ass.”
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PostSubject: Re: ‘Cruzers’ and the Dark World of School-Shooter Culture Online   ‘Cruzers’ and the Dark World of School-Shooter Culture Online Icon_minitimeMon Jan 25, 2021 11:47 pm

DF978 wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
most of the time, columbiners and the sub sections of columbiners aren't even that interested in the case itself. they just go "school shooter uwu" then leave it. it's really strange.

They probably do it to A. piss people off and troll them or B. look edgy. There are definitely people attracted to mass shooters but i'm sure most of the "nikfam" and "Holmies" just think they are edgy or want to troll, very offensive yes but i'm not sure they even study these cases or are attracted to the shooter.

Think of this, they probably want to be "look at me and how different I am!".
I don't think that James Holmes and Nikolas Cruz have that big amount of fans. I think Columbine has the most as its the most famous case. I agree with your point about them wanting to be different though. Nothing screams being different than being attracted to a mass shooter!

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PostSubject: Re: ‘Cruzers’ and the Dark World of School-Shooter Culture Online   ‘Cruzers’ and the Dark World of School-Shooter Culture Online Icon_minitimeTue Jan 26, 2021 4:29 am

James Holmes had girls who attended his trial. He also talked about how he got letters and stuff from girls and said it was "nice" that is from the book A Dark Night in Aurora.


I have to see if it is still on YouTube but one of the girls got kicked out of court because she was so upset about his charges or something like that and James Holmes turns around and looks at her like she's insane.

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PostSubject: Re: ‘Cruzers’ and the Dark World of School-Shooter Culture Online   ‘Cruzers’ and the Dark World of School-Shooter Culture Online Icon_minitimeTue Jan 26, 2021 3:53 pm

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I have to see if it is still on YouTube but one of the girls got kicked out of court because she was so upset about his charges or something like that and James Holmes turns around and looks at her like she's insane.

I would love to see that Very Happy Please, share if you find it.

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PostSubject: Re: ‘Cruzers’ and the Dark World of School-Shooter Culture Online   ‘Cruzers’ and the Dark World of School-Shooter Culture Online Icon_minitimeTue Jan 26, 2021 5:03 pm

I will!!

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