Sad Piece Of Background Info.

QuestionMark wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

I just highly doubt Wayne Harris would have tolerated Eric making and keeping pipe bombs in his house.

Well evidently Wayne either was accepting of it or was willfully ignorant of what his son was doing. I personally would say it's the latter, but I really have to wonder what he was thinking considering how much he let Eric get away with.

Agreed. I do think they were were just blissfully unaware of what Eric was doing. Same as Dylan's family. The Klebolds were clueless as well.

Although it still boggles my mind thinking of all the things Eric was capable of doing in his own home, right under the noses of his parents. He did say that he was a good at lying. Then again both E&D proved many times they were good at lies, and manipulation.

If you go the other way of Wayne possibly knowing of Eric's continued activities, then you start stepping into the conspiracy theories of Wayne Harris letting Eric be brain washed and turned into a Government experiment, false red flag bullshit, etc.

rayybayy444 wrote:

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That's a verrry valid point. I hadn't even thought of those aspects. I want to read through the 11K report to try an see how many victims made statements of that sort. It for some reason really hit me with a sense of what was going through their minds and what they were thinking about in those moments. Sad but so intriguing to discover!!

There were things that Richard Castaldo had said while he was in the hospital about Rachel Scott being shot, her being asked about her beliefs in God, etc. that later on he couldn't remember saying as well. He went back and forth on some details of his recollection.

I know factually that Val was the one asked but I always found it a bit odd that two people associated with Rachel said Eric/Dylan asked two different people if they believed in God.

Did Richard get shot first and then Rachel?

There is so much we don't know about the families of Eric and Dylan... we can just speculate but I think very little was left in Dylans room, probably because his mom searched a lot more but I am wondering if Wayne thought he could handle everything on his own? You know, it is HIS family and I don't know if they also felt a bit unwelcomed in Littleton? Wasn't Wayne or Kathy from the area?

Also how long after Columbine did Dr. Albert lose his license?

Screamingophelia wrote:

Also how long after Columbine did Dr. Albert lose his license?

I don't think that he ever lost his license. If you Google his name, it appears that he operates a website for his private practice.

sscc wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Also how long after Columbine did Dr. Albert lose his license?

I don't think that he ever lost his license. If you Google his name, it appears that he operates a website for his private practice.

Than you SSCC, I wonder where I heard that from? I may have misread something.

sscc wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Also how long after Columbine did Dr. Albert lose his license?

I don't think that he ever lost his license. If you Google his name, it appears that he operates a website for his private practice.

I have came across a few reviews of his practice somewhere online before. People were less then kind in describing his abilities.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

I just highly doubt Wayne Harris would have tolerated Eric making and keeping pipe bombs in his house.

Well evidently Wayne either was accepting of it or was willfully ignorant of what his son was doing. I personally would say it's the latter, but I really have to wonder what he was thinking considering how much he let Eric get away with.

Agreed. I do think they were were just blissfully unaware of what Eric was doing. Same as Dylan's family. The Klebolds were clueless as well.

Although it still boggles my mind thinking of all the things Eric was capable of doing in his own home, right under the noses of his parents. He did say that he was a good at lying. Then again both E&D proved many times they were good at lies, and manipulation. 

I think it's because it never occurred to Wayne that Eric was going to become a murderer. I think Wayne saw Eric as a simple delinquent who needed to get his act together, and that's why so many things slid past him.

QuestionMark wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

I just highly doubt Wayne Harris would have tolerated Eric making and keeping pipe bombs in his house.

Well evidently Wayne either was accepting of it or was willfully ignorant of what his son was doing. I personally would say it's the latter, but I really have to wonder what he was thinking considering how much he let Eric get away with.

Agreed. I do think they were were just blissfully unaware of what Eric was doing. Same as Dylan's family. The Klebolds were clueless as well.

Although it still boggles my mind thinking of all the things Eric was capable of doing in his own home, right under the noses of his parents. He did say that he was a good at lying. Then again both E&D proved many times they were good at lies, and manipulation. 

I think it's because it never occurred to Wayne that Eric was going to become a murderer. I think Wayne saw Eric as a simple delinquent who needed to get his act together, and that's why so many things slid past him.

Good point. It seemed to be a big leap from "oh we broke into a van!" to "we just committed a massive school shooting and tried to blow up the school"

QuestionMark wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

I just highly doubt Wayne Harris would have tolerated Eric making and keeping pipe bombs in his house.

Well evidently Wayne either was accepting of it or was willfully ignorant of what his son was doing. I personally would say it's the latter, but I really have to wonder what he was thinking considering how much he let Eric get away with.

Agreed. I do think they were were just blissfully unaware of what Eric was doing. Same as Dylan's family. The Klebolds were clueless as well.

Although it still boggles my mind thinking of all the things Eric was capable of doing in his own home, right under the noses of his parents. He did say that he was a good at lying. Then again both E&D proved many times they were good at lies, and manipulation. 

I think it's because it never occurred to Wayne that Eric was going to become a murderer. I think Wayne saw Eric as a simple delinquent who needed to get his act together, and that's why so many things slid past him.

True. I mean who goes around thinking their kid is going to murder people? Wayne probably thought "Well we hit a few snags, but now everything is back on track".

I'm finally reading through the 11k report, just started and not that far into it. Currently I'm on Mark Kintgen's account of events that day on page.49 of the report. The following states...

["When asked if he recalled anything specific about the announcements that day, Mark Kintgen responded in the negative but stated he did remember a scrolling message which is shown throughout the school at various locations. Mark Kintgen identified that message as "Today is not a good day to be here." Mark Kintgen stated he had no explanation as to the specific meaning of the message, nor did he know who authored the message."] --------------------------------

Does Anyone know if any OTHER students, recalled this message being seen throughout the school that day? If so can you tell me of which part of the 11K report I could possibly jump to; to read those specific statements. I wonder if that message was actually being displayed across the school screens that day (like the one we see in the commons footage) If so I wonder who did author that message to be displayed? Or could that part have been imagined or fabricated by Mark Kintgen.

rayybayy444 wrote:

I'm finally reading through the 11k report, just started and not that far into it. Currently I'm on Mark Kintgen's account of events that day on page.49 of the report. The following states...

["When asked if he recalled anything specific about the announcements that day, Mark Kintgen responded in the negative but stated he did remember a scrolling message which is shown throughout the school at various locations. Mark Kintgen identified that message as "Today is not a good day to be here." Mark Kintgen stated he had no explanation as to the specific meaning of the message, nor did he know who authored the message."] --------------------------------

Does Anyone know if any OTHER students, recalled this message being seen throughout the school that day? If so can you tell me of which part of the 11K report I could possibly jump to; to read those specific statements. I wonder if that message was actually being displayed across the school screens that day (like the one we see in the commons footage) If so I wonder who did author that message to be displayed?  Or could that part have been imagined or fabricated by Mark Kintgen.

I don’t have specific pages off the top of my head but it was RNNs quote or thought of the day.. I believe it started as “quit yer bitchin” then since it was such a beautiful spring day it changed to “why would you want to be here on a day like today?” It was written by Eric Veik

rayybayy444 wrote:

Does Anyone know if any OTHER students, recalled this message being seen throughout the school that day? If so can you tell me of which part of the 11K report I could possibly jump to; to read those specific statements. I wonder if that message was actually being displayed across the school screens that day (like the one we see in the commons footage) If so I wonder who did author that message to be displayed?  Or could that part have been imagined or fabricated by Mark Kintgen.

A lot of students remembered a similar message and you can find them scattered throughout the witness statements. I still wonder if it's a coincidence that Eric Veik changed the quote.
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Thank you!! That is sooo strange how people saw that message!! I haven't yet read anything on who Eric Veik is. Was he in charge of student announcements? And what quote had he changed? I'm currently on Lisa Kreutz on page.60!

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WHAT?!! I did not know that!! That is soo weird to me!! So I wonder did Eric ever tell police or investigators anything about switching notice board or is reason on why he switched it to say what it did?

rayybayy444 wrote:

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WHAT?!! I did not know that!! That is soo weird to me!! So I wonder did Eric ever tell police or investigators anything about switching notice board or is reason on why he switched it to say what it did?

Yes someone who worked with him on RNM asked him to change it because of the swearing

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I finally read it! from the link provided above. And that is crazy, I guess that's one more thing we'll never really understand It's almost as if in an eerie sense devastation was slowly descending upon the school leading up until 11:20a.m in subtle hints slowly but surely..

rayybayy444 wrote:

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I finally read it! from the link provided above. And that is crazy, I guess that's one more thing we'll never really understand  It's almost as if in an eerie sense devastation was slowly descending upon the school leading up until 11:20a.m in subtle hints slowly but surely..

It really is, looking back the whole morning was eerie and I'm sure people have stories about maybe feeling off. I sometimes wonder if there were kids who decided to skip that morning or maybe someone who wanted to go to the library during lunch then decided not to, maybe they saw a friend, a teacher called them in for a meeting or maybe they just got a feeling.

I remember one day I had this strange feeling all day. I couldn't put my finger on it, but I was on edge all day, but nothing was going on in my life to worry me. That night someone tried breaking into my home!!!

I think John Savage stated he was going to go to the choir room but decided to go to the library instead... I could be wrong.

I remember in the 11k Jessica Holliday saying she left the library briefly to walk a friend to her next class, and then returned. This was very shortly before E&D's rampage began. Also although she was originally sat at table 2, she had gone over to talk to another girl she knew and hid under a different table. Her table was one of the few left untouched, which is quite a contrast to the events that occurred at table 2.

Szabo wrote:

I remember in the 11k Jessica Holliday saying she left the library briefly to walk a friend to her next class, and then returned. This was very shortly before E&D's rampage began. Also although she was originally sat at table 2, she had gone over to talk to another girl she knew and hid under a different table. Her table was one of the few left untouched, which is quite a contrast to the events that occurred at table 2.

That would horrify me

Did anyone at table 2 survive uninjured?

Only Diwata Perez I think.

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OMG!!! I'm so sorry that happened to you! How terrifying! I truly believe for whatever reasons our souls or subconscious or whatever it may be, pick up on when bad things are about to unfold and even good things. But it's always so eerie when a bad event happens and looking back leading up to it there ALWAYS major signs that were right under noses that something is about to happen! I saw this video on YouTube of a 'Medium' contacting Dylan and Eric. (However I don't believe she did, because I JUST KNOW how the boys seemed to be as people they would of had more to say and more details) but I always wonder if mediums do exsist, if one could contact Dylan and Eric in hopes of communicating. Very eerie thought when you think what they would say in a "what if" scenario.

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I was just wondering where Jessica Holliday went when I was reading Lisa Kreutz witness statement to IO she had stated that Jessica got up and left and she didn't see her after that. I also told myself if I had been in the Library that day during CHS I would have hid under the computer tables on the West end of the library, on the side facing closet to the North wall because no one was hurt along that side. only Valesquez (might have spelt that wrong.) on the other side of the table and Evan Todd that got hit behind the copier machine I believe it was.

God was definitely with Jessica that day she literally dodged death by a matter of seconds and only a few feet!

I never know exactly what to make of these premonition stories, but I usually take them with a pinch of salt. People look for method in the madness and, after an event as traumatic as Columbine, little things can end up being viewed as extremely significant in hindsight. A way of convincing ourselves that we may be able to spot the next tragedy in time? I don't know.

What we hear a lot less of are the stories where people had these feelings and nothing happened. I read a lot of military history and came across the story of a British bomber pilot in World War II. He got a bad feeling in his gut at a mission briefing and couldn't shake it. He was convinced he was going to die that night. As he was taking off, he saw a crow sitting on the branch of a dead oak tree on the airfield perimeter, and his blood ran cold. He said that it looked like something out of a horror film. Not only did he make it back, but he said it was one of the easiest missions he ever flew. So I never really know what to make of these stories.

The Eeriest premonition is definitely Sue’s when Dylan was born.

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I completely agree! I don't remember her exact but something along the lines she knew that this child would bring great sadness or something like that. Another thing I find crazy is E&D even said them selves that their starting a revolution and they literally did!!! School shootings went up and keep rising and one thing all these school shooters have in common is they looked up to E&D, or had study them at some point. But I personally feel Columbine will forever be different! No scenario really compares to that of Columbine. There's something about Everyone involved that made this what it is going on 20 years later!
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That is crazy!! You always wonder tho what would end up happening if we ignored those signs or gut feelings about stuff?

rayybayy444 wrote:

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I completely agree! I don't remember her exact but something along the lines she knew that this child would bring great sadness or something like that. Another thing I find crazy is E&D even said them selves that their starting a revolution and they literally did!!! School shootings went up and keep rising and one thing all these school shooters have in common is they looked up to E&D, or had study them at some point. But I personally feel Columbine will forever be different! No scenario really compares to that of Columbine. There's something about Everyone involved that made this what it is going on 20 years later!
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That is crazy!! You always wonder tho what would end up happening if we ignored those signs or gut feelings about stuff?

I agree!! A lot of things Eric and Dylan said came true. They have and had followers, even "fans" I wonder if their spirits are out there if they are either pissed that NOW girls want them or if they are weirded out by the flower crowns and shit.. probably a little bit of both. Eric loved the whole foreshadowing aspect, he was really pleased that Adios was released on 4/20. Even though thankfully their plan did not come to full fruition, people are still fascinated to this day and I feel like E and D get the most empathy out of the shooters. They also strike me as the most "normal' like comparing video clips and stuff.

If I remember correctly from AMR Sue thought the sorrow was Dylan's pyloric stenosis because after that for 16 years Dylan was a fantastic child that no one worried about.