Zachary Cruz says failure to stop Parkland shooting 'haunts me'

A lot of people failed him...

Even if bullying is a serious issues and it needs to be stopped, I don't think it would prevent other shool shootings. Many people are bullied and they don't shoot up their school. A teenager that wants to kill people is something more that just being bullied

Neah wrote:

Even if bullying is a serious issues and it needs to be stopped, I don't think it would prevent other shool shootings. Many people are bullied and they don't shoot up their school. A teenager that wants to kill people is something more that just being bullied

Well if you take someone who's already pretty disturbed and treat him like shit, It's not too shocking when he finally lashes out violently.

QuestionMark wrote:

Neah wrote:

Even if bullying is a serious issues and it needs to be stopped, I don't think it would prevent other shool shootings. Many people are bullied and they don't shoot up their school. A teenager that wants to kill people is something more that just being bullied

Well if you take someone who's already pretty disturbed and treat him like shit, It's not too shocking when he finally lashes out violently.

I agree, but not all mass shooters were bullied. I think being "pretty disturbed" can already be enough for some people to commit this kind of crime.

I do agree that bullying is exacerbating the problem in someone who is already disturbed or showing signs of mental illness, but you can’t force people to like someone who obviously has problems. Even if they somehow manage to stop blatant bullying, a kid like that or like a lot of these shooters is not the kind of person kids are going to be friends with. They are still going to feel ostracized and people are going to try and still call it bullying. But why should other kids potentially put themselves in danger to include someone like that? Anti-bullying programs are not going to stop this. Mental health services and making it more difficult for these kids to get guns will, not that anything will ever get done anyway.

Indigowendigo wrote:

I do agree that bullying is exacerbating the problem in someone who is already disturbed or showing signs of mental illness, but you can’t force people to like someone who obviously has problems. Even if they somehow manage to stop blatant bullying, a kid like that or like a lot of these shooters is not the kind of person kids are going to be friends with. They are still going to feel ostracized and people are going to try and still call it bullying. But why should other kids potentially put themselves in danger to include someone like that? Anti-bullying programs are not going to stop this. Mental health services and making it more difficult for these kids to get guns will, not that anything will ever get done anyway.

You can teach kids not to be cruel, or at least polite. Also one persons definition of bullying may be different than anothers. Bullying doesn't just have to be punches to the face.

An example I bring up is Eric and Dylan (shocker) there was bullying done to both of them. Dylan had more friends than Eric did but in the climate they were in, they were ostracized. Maybe in another school (we at least know this is true for Eric) they may have been kids that just flew under the radar, some friends, good grades but not a target of bullies like E and D were at times. I still say getting bottles, tampons covered in ketchup, and called every name in the book, pushed into lockers and have a fake drug tip called on you pretty bullying behavior. Devon tells a story of when she was talking to Dylan, some dude pushed HER into a locker and asked her why she was a "fag lover"

However where is the line when it comes to feeling "afraid" and ostracizing people. What if it is just that you don't like the way someone dresses or talks? Is that okay? Is it okay to do it if they have a facial deformity that "scares" you?

Also people like the Parkland kids who brag about bullying Nikolas Cruz are pretty gross TBH.

I guess I go with what Devon wrote publicly around last years anniversary about how you can walk out and walk up and they are not mutually exclusive. She stated that she is not sure if she told Dylan on prom night how much she loved him or how much his friendship met to her if he wouldn't have committed the massacre or maybe if she tried to rekindle her friendship with Eric and got over her fear of him if it would have made a difference but she is glad for her friendship with Dylan. You don't HAVE to reach out to someone who may have violent outbursts if you don't feel comfortable but you also DON'T have to be an asshole and bully them. Just leave them alone, don't be part of the problem and make things worse. Leave people better of the same as when you found them.

I also get angry at people who blame the fact that the angry white kids may all be virgins and that is why they kill. I think that is a lot of victim blaming too, like 'hey girls, want to stop a school shooter.... you know what to do!"

Screamingophelia wrote:

Also people like the Parkland kids who brag about bullying Nikolas Cruz are pretty gross TBH.

What I hate far more is the fact that these same kids are being paraded by the media as heroes and shit. Totally awful.

QuestionMark wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Also people like the Parkland kids who brag about bullying Nikolas Cruz are pretty gross TBH.

What I hate far more is the fact that these same kids are being paraded by the media as heroes and shit. Totally awful.

I am with you 100%

Indigowendigo wrote:

I do agree that bullying is exacerbating the problem in someone who is already disturbed or showing signs of mental illness, but you can’t force people to like someone who obviously has problems. Even if they somehow manage to stop blatant bullying, a kid like that or like a lot of these shooters is not the kind of person kids are going to be friends with. They are still going to feel ostracized and people are going to try and still call it bullying. But why should other kids potentially put themselves in danger to include someone like that? Anti-bullying programs are not going to stop this. Mental health services and making it more difficult for these kids to get guns will, not that anything will ever get done anyway.

I agree with you. And saying that bullying is one of the main causes is victim blaming imo. In France we are not better, we also have bullying but none result in a killing (it would be difficult to find a firearm though). But we had some suicides.

And it is true that the definition of bullying differs, especially when you think about it after a mass shooting. If people didn't like him and ignored him, people could say after a mass shooting "oh yeah, now that I think about it it was bullying".

Saying bullying is a reason someone lashes out is not victim blaming. No one is saying it was right for the person to do what what they did. However you have people who refuse to believe that someone being tormented day in and day out in a bubble on top of all the other stuff that happens in HS, can cause someone who probably has other issues going on to get pushed over the edge and hurt themselves or others?

What’s wrong with saying “don’t bully, there’s 0 tolerance”

It seems like now people are ok with bullying... heaven forbid we are kind.

Then you get easy access to a gun and someone who is young and angry uses that as a tool for destruction.

ETA-  I think also when I hear someone say victim blaming I think of a different definition two examples of what I think is victim blaming are when people ask about the Aurora shooting and why young kids were at a midnight screening, there’s nothing wrong with that no one ever expected for that to happen. It’s the parents decision to bring a six-year-old to anything they want. You might not find it appropriate but it’s none of your business.

Or when Tom Mauser said people were  telling him that Danny was in the wrong place at the wrong time  and he says no,  Danny was in the library during school hours doing what he was supposed to do and that’s true.

Screamingophelia wrote:

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ETA-  I think also when I hear someone say victim blaming I think of a different definition two examples of what I think is victim blaming are when people ask about the Aurora shooting and why young kids were at a midnight screening, there’s nothing wrong with that no one ever expected for that to happen. It’s the parents decision to bring a six-year-old to anything they want. You might not find it appropriate but it’s none of your business.

Or when Tom Mauser said people were  telling him that Danny was in the wrong place at the wrong time  and he says no,  Danny was in the library during school hours doing what he was supposed to do and that’s true.

I see what you mean, but imo people who say the example you gave are really stupid and I think the idea of "victim blaming" is more subtle than what they say. My definition of victim blaming is when something really bad happens, like a shooting, and you say about the victims : "But you did that so you are partly responsible for what happened." I think nobody except the shooter can be held responsible. To me it is exactly the same thing as when after the Charlie Hebdo attack some people said "Killing is bad but in the same time Charlie Hebdo was provocative and looked for trouble."

I think nothing can justify shooting people so people except the shooter should not be held responsible for the action of an individual. Shooters knew it was bad and still did it. It is their choice. But don't take me wrong, I don't defend bullies, I think it is also a serious issue and measures should be taken to prevent that.