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 Cho's use of 88: "The significance is a mystery"

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Nate22

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PostSubject: Cho's use of 88: "The significance is a mystery"   Cho's use of 88: "The significance is a mystery" Icon_minitimeMon Jul 02, 2018 1:03 am

The version of Seung-Hui Cho's manifesto released by psychologist Peter Langley references a "photograph of hand-drawn '88' with the numbers overlapping." The footnote to this reference reads as follows:

"Cho sent a letter to the English department the day of the attack. He used a false name (A. Ishmael) and false return address: 88 Revol Dr. The number 88 was significant to him but the significance is a mystery."

In high school, Cho writes that he "likes action movies." As the New York Times observes, "A photograph of Mr. Cho wielding a hammer was thought by some commentators to resemble an image of the South Korean actor Choi Min-sik doing something similar in Oldboy (2003)." Similar references have been made with regard to The Punisher (2004).

It seems likely that Seung-Hui Cho would have watched Kill Bill: Vol. 1 (2003) and Kill Bill: Vol. 2 (2004), two of the most popular action films of the early 2000s. In those films, the Bride—a lone vigilante seeking a "roaring rampage of revenge"—brutally murders members of an organization known as The Crazy 88. ("There wasn't really eighty eight of them, they just called themselves The Crazy 88.... I guess they thought it sounded cool.") This may be the connection Dr. Langley is seeking when he references the "mystery" of the significance of the number 88 to Cho.

But why did Cho feature the number 88 so prominently in his manifesto, going so far as to devote an entire page to a photograph of the number hand-drawn?

Seuing-Hui Cho's behavior during the shooting differed from that of Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, the Columbine shooters. Harris and Klenold were largely erratic, while Cho was efficient and methodical. Could it be that Cho was aiming to kill a specific number of students? If so, this would explain why Cho went out of his way to learn how to quickly reload his weapon and prepare himself physically for the event.

In fact, given the aforementioned prominence of the number 88 in his manifesto—it could very well be the case that this is number of students Cho aimed to kill.


Last edited by Nate22 on Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:18 am; edited 2 times in total
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Cho's use of 88: "The significance is a mystery" Empty
PostSubject: Re: Cho's use of 88: "The significance is a mystery"   Cho's use of 88: "The significance is a mystery" Icon_minitimeMon Jul 02, 2018 1:48 am

Nate22 wrote:
It is clear that Cho drew inspiration from violent action films for his manifesto. 

No it's not.

I will say that the hypothesis that Cho was looking to kill 88 people is an interesting one, don't think it was ever discussed before. Langman seems to think it's connected with the white supremacist use of the number 88.

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PostSubject: Re: Cho's use of 88: "The significance is a mystery"   Cho's use of 88: "The significance is a mystery" Icon_minitimeMon Jul 02, 2018 3:17 am

My assumption, given Cho's tendency to speak in biblical terms and his family's Christian beliefs, has always been that this was a biblical reference.

I looked at the bible and the only book that even has an 88th chapter, as far as I can tell, is Psalms. This seems like a possibility.

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According to Martin Marty, a professor of church history at the University of Chicago, Psalm 88 is "a wintry landscape of unrelieved bleakness."
...
Neale and Littledale find it "stands alone in all the Psalter for the unrelieved gloom, the hopeless sorrow of its tone. Even the very saddest of the others, and the Lamentations themselves, admit some variations of key, some strains of hopefulness; here only all is darkness to the close.—Neale and Littledale.

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After much thought and study of Psalms 88, the typical commentary appraisal is it is entirely negative, totally given to the expression of grief and despair.

True (if you haven't already, read it now), it seems to be a picture of un-alleviated misery, seldom found anywhere in the Scriptures. Often, in the book of Psalms, you will be able to find hope even in between statements of despair. In many of the Psalms there is lamentation and negative emotions honestly expressed, yet they are resolved by some statement of hope and trust. Not in Psalms 88, we may immediately conclude.

In Psalms 88, from verse 1 to the end of the chapter expresses the emotions of one who is writing from the pit, deep in despair. Even after you grant the writer literary license to use exaggerated poetic language, this poem cannot be lifted to any level of joy it seems. It is a continuous, bitter expression of one living deep in despair, sometimes with language that may seem to border on reproach against God.


I can see why someone like Cho might be drawn to it. The psalm is all about being abandoned by everyone to suffer, including god himself.
KJV Psalm 88 wrote:
88 O lord God of my salvation, I have cried day and night before thee:
Let my prayer come before thee: incline thine ear unto my cry;
For my soul is full of troubles: and my life draweth nigh unto the grave.
I am counted with them that go down into the pit: I am as a man that hath no strength:
Free among the dead, like the slain that lie in the grave, whom thou rememberest no more: and they are cut off from thy hand.
Thou hast laid me in the lowest pit, in darkness, in the deeps.
Thy wrath lieth hard upon me, and thou hast afflicted me with all thy waves. Selah.
Thou hast put away mine acquaintance far from me; thou hast made me an abomination unto them: I am shut up, and I cannot come forth.
Mine eye mourneth by reason of affliction: Lord, I have called daily upon thee, I have stretched out my hands unto thee.
10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.
11 Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?
12 Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?
13 But unto thee have I cried, O Lord; and in the morning shall my prayer prevent thee.
14 Lord, why castest thou off my soul? why hidest thou thy face from me?
15 I am afflicted and ready to die from my youth up: while I suffer thy terrors I am distracted.
16 Thy fierce wrath goeth over me; thy terrors have cut me off.
17 They came round about me daily like water; they compassed me about together.
18 Lover and friend hast thou put far from me, and mine acquaintance into darkness.

A more accessible version of the psalm.
CEB Psalm 88 wrote:

88 Lord, God of my salvation,
    by day I cry out,
    even at night, before you—
    let my prayer reach you!
Turn your ear to my outcry
    because my whole being is filled with distress;
    my life is at the very brink of hell.
I am considered as one of those plummeting into the pit.
    I am like those who are beyond help,
    drifting among the dead,
    lying in the grave, like dead bodies—
    those you don’t remember anymore,
    those who are cut off from your power.
You placed me down in the deepest pit,
    in places dark and deep.
Your anger smothers me;
    you subdue me with it, wave after wave. Selah
You’ve made my friends distant.
    You’ve made me disgusting to them.
    I can’t escape. I’m trapped!
My eyes are tired of looking at my suffering.
    I’ve been calling out to you every day, Lord—
    I’ve had my hands outstretched to you!
10 Do you work wonders for the dead?
    Do ghosts rise up and give you thanks? Selah
11 Is your faithful love proclaimed in the grave,
    your faithfulness in the underworld?
12 Are your wonders known in the land of darkness,
    your righteousness in the land of oblivion?
13 But I cry out to you, Lord!
    My prayer meets you first thing in the morning!
14 Why do you reject my very being, Lord?
    Why do you hide your face from me?
15 Since I was young I’ve been afflicted, I’ve been dying.
    I’ve endured your terrors. I’m lifeless.
16 Your fiery anger has overwhelmed me;
    your terrors have destroyed me.
17 They surround me all day long like water;
    they engulf me completely.
18 You’ve made my loved ones and companions distant.
    My only friend is darkness.
It would be interesting to know if Cho felt some connection to this psalm. His manifesto was full of rage and expressions of righteousness but we know that he was very depressed and alone as well. Could it have been an expression of the deep despair that Cho felt throughout his life? Did he feel abandoned by god?

(Or, assuming that it was relevant to him, could he have been explaining the despair that he hoped to inflict on his victims and the community? Did he want them to wonder where their god was as he was carrying out his massacre? Did he want them to feel that they were abandoned by god?)

Some interpretations say that this psalm is the lament of sinners being punished with the absence of god's mercy. We know that Cho felt that he was attacking "Apostles of Sin." Did he think he was carrying out god's will in destroying them? He certainly seemed to think he was participating in a revolution of the "Weak, Innocent and Defenseless," so was it a holy war in his eyes? Was he acting on behalf of god or was he possibly acting on behalf of a god that had abandoned him and the others like him?

I found this photo of Cho's "88" in the manifesto.
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The symbol is the "Number of the Anti-Terrorist." The drawing above it is, I assume based on Langman's transcript, "Seer of Veracity. Seal of the Anti-Terrorist." As you can see, the seal includes a cross, which again suggests religious themes.

If you look at the transcript on Langman's website, it seems that on the page before Cho adds these images, he speaks constantly of Jesus Christ and false Christianity, which he equates to terrorism. This is why Cho called himself a martyr and said he would die like Jesus Christ. He was an Anti-Terrorist, one of the innocents who had experienced brutality at the hands of false Christians (sinners, terrorists, descendants of Satan and spillers of blood), and he was sacrificing himself in the hope that the weak, defenseless and innocent would be inspired to inflict their own wrath on the terrorists who had brutalized them.

Considering Psalm 88 in this context, maybe the point would be that only those who have experienced total loss, total despair, without a shred of hope would know to follow in his footsteps of revolution as an Anti-Terrorist. Maybe they hadn't even been abandoned by god but in god's plan, their never-ending despair was intended to help them see the truth ("Seer of Veracity") and like him, become Anti-Terrorist martyrs who, through their own sacrifice, would rid the world of false Christians who torment the innocent. The hedonists were clearly blind to the injustice and abuse so maybe he felt that the despair was the key to seeing the truth. Being subjected to pain so deep would leave no other choice but to inflict the same level of pain on the tormentors in the name of Jesus Christ.

Potentially relevant quotes:
Seung-Hui Cho wrote:
As the time approached, I wished for a last minute miracle and discard this mission you’ve given me. Heaven knows I wouldn’t hurt a single leaf of a flower. But when the time came, I did it. I had to. What other choices did you give me? All this time... You never know that a human being is capable of doing until you fuck him to the edge.

When you’re raped of everything, you got nothing to lose

Seung-Hui Cho wrote:
By destroying we create. We create the feelings in you of what it is like to be the victim, what it is like to be fucked and destroyed. Because of your annihilations, we create and raise new breeds of Children who will show you fuckers what you have done to us. Like Easter, it will be a day of rebirth. It will be a start of a revolution of the Children that you fucked. You have never felt a single ounce of pain your whole life, thus, by destroying you, by giving you pain, we attempt to show you responsibilities and meanings of other people’s lives.

Seung-Hui Cho wrote:
Only if you could be the victim of your reprehensible and wicked crimes, you Christian Nazis, you would have brute-restrained your animal urges to fuck me.

You could be at home right now eating your fucking caviar and your fucking cognac, had you not ravenously raped my soul.

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Can you feel the pain that you fucked us in, you Descendants of Satan? Well, can you feel it?

All the shit you’ve given me, right back at you with hollow points.

Anyway, that's my muddled theory (or theories or more accurately, my set of questions with no answers).

(And this is completely subjective but when I see the photo of "88" from the manifesto, it reminds me of an abstract drawing of two people embracing. This seems apt for someone who was as alone as Cho was but intending to inspire his "Brothers and Sisters" to follow his lead with this act of mass murder.)
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Cho's use of 88: "The significance is a mystery" Empty
PostSubject: Re: Cho's use of 88: "The significance is a mystery"   Cho's use of 88: "The significance is a mystery" Icon_minitimeMon Jul 02, 2018 9:17 am

QuestionMark wrote:
No it's not.

I may not have been clear here; what I meant to say was that Cho explicitly states he likes action movies, and images from his manifesto appear to mirror popular action movies from the era. I've edited my post to reflect this.

sscc wrote:
Did he want them to wonder where their god was as he was carrying out his massacre? Did he want them to feel that they were abandoned by god?

This reminds me of a line from Sue Klebold's book, A Mother's Reckoning: "Who could imagine going through something like this? I certainly could not have. Surrounded as I was by love and support, I felt completely adrift from normal experience—and indeed, from myself. It was, I came to realize, how Dylan must have felt at the end of his life."

The theory that he wanted to make his victims feel as "abandoned by god" as he was is certainly consistent with this line: "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Can you feel the pain that you fucked us in, you Descendants of Satan? Well, can you feel it?"

sscc wrote:
The symbol is the "Number of the Anti-Terrorist." The drawing above it is, I assume based on Langman's transcript, "Seer of Veracity. Seal of the Anti-Terrorist." As you can see, the seal includes a cross, which again suggests religious themes.

I had not seen this before. Thanks for sharing; I'm also curious where you discovered it.

It's worth noting that in a Biblical context a "seer" is God's spokesman, which is consistent with your theory that Cho believed he was "acting on behalf of god... or possibly acting on behalf of a god that had abandoned him and the others like him."

sscc wrote:
Anyway, that's my muddled theory (or theories or more accurately, my set of questions with no answers).

Given the image you shared and its placement within the manifesto, I believe your theory regarding Psalm 88 makes more sense than the theory I originally proposed in this thread.

At the time of shooting, I remember people dismissing Cho's words by saying "he's just crazy," which I was never satisfied with; so far from being muddled, your insight actually provides me with a level of clarity I've been seeking for over a decade now.

sscc wrote:
(And this is completely subjective but when I see the photo of "88" from the manifesto, it reminds me of an abstract drawing of two people embracing. This seems apt for someone who was as alone as Cho was but intending to inspire his "Brothers and Sisters" to follow his lead with this act of mass murder.)

I can see this. In video, Cho says, "If not for me, for my children and my brothers and sisters that you (expletive). I did it for them." Cho appears to have found solidarity with "weak and defenseless people." The heart may be an expression of that solidarity with those who understand him; and yes, the overlapping 88 very could be a symbolic embrace.


Last edited by Nate22 on Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:24 pm; edited 3 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Cho's use of 88: "The significance is a mystery"   Cho's use of 88: "The significance is a mystery" Icon_minitimeMon Jul 02, 2018 3:09 pm

Very interesting, I've always found Cho's use of religious symbolism fascinating.

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Cho's use of 88: "The significance is a mystery" Empty
PostSubject: Re: Cho's use of 88: "The significance is a mystery"   Cho's use of 88: "The significance is a mystery" Icon_minitimeMon Jul 02, 2018 8:25 pm

Nate22 wrote:
QuestionMark wrote:
No it's not.

I may not have been clear here; what I meant to say was that Cho explicitly states he likes action movies, and images from his manifesto appear to mirror popular action movies from the era. I've edited my post to reflect this.

Fair enough. I will say you weren't the first person to draw a parallel with action movies and Cho's manifesto; I remember one commentator noting that his manifesto was like he was trying to be a character from a Tarantino film.

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