Rachel's Funeral - Opinions

Has anyone seen footage of the funeral? I've watched little bits and pieces of it on YouTube, but never the full thing.

Is it true that they played a Celine Dion song even though it's been said that Rachel didn't like her (or held no opinion on her music)? Why would her family chose that if she didn't like it?

Why did they chose to televise it? Was it her family who asked for it to be televised? Did we ever hear opinions from Rachel's friends about the funeral being televised and if they thought it was the right thing to do?

Did her immediate family (mum, dad or Craig for example) speak during the funeral or was it just friends who spoke about Rachel?

Why did they chose to open Rachel's casket at the end of the funeral after all the cameras had stopped running? Again who chose this? Was it her family or the vicar who was running the service? What did they expect to gain from this? Shock value, a real life example of gun crime - surely it would have held more impact if the cameras had still been running.

What do you think Rachel would have thought about her funeral?

I do think a lot of things surrounding her funeral were for shock value, also having to deal with the "She died for her faith" issue as well.  Between Rachel and Cassie, the church people had a field day and used it as a call to arms in a sense.

Even if it was less then the truth, at least in Cassie's case.  The jury is still out on whether Rachel was really asked if she believed in God, as Richard has had different recollections of the event over the years.

I know Devon was pretty outspoken about the way Rachel’s funeral was handled. She said her and Rachel’s friends couldn’t mourn her the way they wanted to. And that Rachel’s family never accepted her for who she was.



They also were very against I’m not ashamed. I also recently met another one of Rachel‘s friends who agreed

Screamingophelia wrote:

I know Devon was pretty outspoken about the way Rachel’s funeral was handled. She said her and Rachel’s friends couldn’t mourn  her the way they wanted to. And that Rachel’s family never accepted her for who she was.

They also were very against I’m not ashamed.  I also recently met another one of Rachel‘s friends who agreed

Agreed. In my opinion they turned her service into a three ring circus act all in the hopes of bringing people into the church, to lead them to God, etc. How could anyone be expected to grieve or even say goodbye with a video camera stuck in your face trying to catch any tears that fell?

I also agree about the movie, A LOT of Rachel's friends had major issues with it.

It's such a shame in my opinion. As the funeral could have been such a beautiful celebration of her life. But like you all have mentioned, it was used to bring more people to God, but the way they went about introducing him to more people was pushy and insincere.

katherinex wrote:

It's such a shame in my opinion. As the funeral could have been such a beautiful celebration of her life. But like you all have mentioned, it was used to bring more people to God, but the way they went about introducing him to more people was pushy and insincere.

Agreed. I have never liked people trying to shove their views/faith down my throat either.

I can see why some balked at the experience. Especially at a time when they had lost so many people in such a tragic way. I understand that some do find comfort in their religions, but not everyone wants to be brow beat with a bible while they are trying to come to grips with what had happened.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

katherinex wrote:

It's such a shame in my opinion. As the funeral could have been such a beautiful celebration of her life. But like you all have mentioned, it was used to bring more people to God, but the way they went about introducing him to more people was pushy and insincere.

Agreed. I have never liked people trying to shove their views/faith down my throat either.

I can see why some balked at the experience. Especially at a time when they had lost so many people in such a tragic way. I understand that some do find comfort in their religions, but not everyone wants to be brow beat with a bible while they are trying to come to grips with what had happened.

I agree. And I think it could even have the opposite effect: it's true that some people find comfort in religion after a tragic event, but some people don't, and being told that God is the solution when God didn't save Eric and Dylan's victims could make them feel angry at religions. And yet, they could have turned to faith once they start accepting what happened.

I still feel miffed at Rachel’s mom and Judy who claim Dylan had a secret crush on Rachel and was rejected and then she Told Sue that it was God’s plan and Dylan was meant to kill all along. Why would you tell mom that?

Screamingophelia wrote:

I still feel miffed at Rachel’s mom and Judy who claim Dylan had a secret crush on Rachel and was rejected and then she Told Sue that it was God’s plan and Dylan was meant to kill all along. Why would you tell mom that?

Maybe it was her warped way of trying to ease Sue's guilt. As in "Well your son was destined to be a cold blooded killer all along, so there was nothing you could do" type of way.

Either way was an awful thing to say when Sue was hurting and had lost her son as well.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

I still feel miffed at Rachel’s mom and Judy who claim Dylan had a secret crush on Rachel and was rejected and then she Told Sue that it was God’s plan and Dylan was meant to kill all along. Why would you tell mom that?

Maybe it was her warped way of trying to ease Sue's guilt. As in "Well your son was destined to be a cold blooded killer all along, so there was nothing you could do"  type of way.  

Either way was an awful thing to say when Sue was hurting and had lost her son as well.

Maybe yes. However I have to commend Sue and her remarkable lack of punching people in the face. She never did. However the two instances I would have punched someone. Like Judy arriving in the driveway that day Saying she knew Eric was dangerous

How Sue remained as strong as she was during and after the shooting and in the years after is amazing! I would never blame Judy for the shooting but why didn't she keep Sue informed of the tension between Brooks and Eric if they were as close as the Brown family have claimed - surely if Sue had been informed she could have made an informed decision on Dylan and Eric hanging out outside of school.

Even if Dylan had a secret crush on Rachel and was rejected I doubt Rachel would have been horrible to him about it. I wonder if that's part of the reason why they think Eric targeted Rachel (on behalf of his "heartbroken" friend).

Judy said that Dylan was destined to kill. I'd have loved it if Sue had retorted with, once everyone realised that the Brown's were liars, "well at least my son didn't lie to anyone."

katherinex wrote:

How Sue remained as strong as she was during and after the shooting and in the years after is amazing! I would never blame Judy for the shooting but why didn't she keep Sue informed of the tension between Brooks and Eric if they were as close as the Brown family have claimed - surely if Sue had been informed she could have made an informed decision on Dylan and Eric hanging out outside of school.

Even if Dylan had a secret crush on Rachel and was rejected I doubt Rachel would have been horrible to him about it. I wonder if that's part of the reason why they think Eric targeted Rachel (on behalf of his "heartbroken" friend).

Judy said that Dylan was destined to kill. I'd have loved it if Sue had retorted with, once everyone realised that the Brown's were liars, "well at least my son didn't lie to anyone."

In my opinion Sue and Judy had only really been friends when Dylan and Brooks were younger. Then after the boys weren't as close neither were Sue and Judy. Sue had made remarks that made you really think she thought Judy was a busybody.

Also when in comparison, Brooks wouldn't be considered the ideal son either. I mean he used his knowledge of a horrific event to get his sick kicks. He traded info about Dylan and Eric for who knows what from a bunch of fangirls over the years. Yeah not a son I would be proud of.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

katherinex wrote:

How Sue remained as strong as she was during and after the shooting and in the years after is amazing! I would never blame Judy for the shooting but why didn't she keep Sue informed of the tension between Brooks and Eric if they were as close as the Brown family have claimed - surely if Sue had been informed she could have made an informed decision on Dylan and Eric hanging out outside of school.

Even if Dylan had a secret crush on Rachel and was rejected I doubt Rachel would have been horrible to him about it. I wonder if that's part of the reason why they think Eric targeted Rachel (on behalf of his "heartbroken" friend).

Judy said that Dylan was destined to kill. I'd have loved it if Sue had retorted with, once everyone realised that the Brown's were liars, "well at least my son didn't lie to anyone."

In my opinion Sue and Judy had only really been friends when Dylan and Brooks were younger. Then after the boys weren't as close neither were Sue and Judy. Sue had made remarks that made you really think she thought Judy was a busybody.

Also when in comparison, Brooks wouldn't be considered the ideal son either. I mean he used his knowledge of a horrific event to get his sick kicks. He traded info about Dylan and Eric for who knows what from a bunch of fangirls over the years. Yeah not a son I would be proud of.

None of the Browns came out looking good. Out of that group (those associated with Eric and Dylan personally) Sue comes out the best because of all the work she does now.

I don't think Dylan had a crush on Rachel but I agree even if she didn't want to go out with him I doubt she would have been mean. I'm not saying she was perfect but she didn't seem like the type to be overly nasty to someone who had a crush.

I'm from the UK so don't have any knowledge of open casket funerals. Is this a thing that all funerals in the USA have or do the families get to pick if the casket is opened or closed? Not all of the victim's had open casket funerals, am I right?

Also is there any significance behind an open casket funeral?

katherinex wrote:

I'm from the UK so don't have any knowledge of open casket funerals. Is this a thing that all funerals in the USA have or do the families get to pick if the casket is opened or closed? Not all of the victim's had open casket funerals, am I right?

Not all. I think Cassie and Lauren had a closed casket funeral.

I'm not sure why some people choose to have a closed vs open.

Sometimes of course if the body is too damaged it is closed, if Eric had a funeral I doubt it would have been open. Seeing him would have been horrific.

I think they opened Rachel's casket at the end of the funeral when everyone had to walk by it I think they did that to get the sad kids on film

Thank you [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] for that explanation. I'm not sure how I feel about open casket funerals as I don't think I would feel comfortable seeing the person who'd passed away in that situation. To me, it's not that person you knew anymore. Funerals are sad enough without having the person on display in my opinion.

katherinex wrote:

Thank you [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] for that explanation. I'm not sure how I feel about open casket funerals as I don't think I would feel comfortable seeing the person who'd passed away in that situation. To me, it's not that person you knew anymore. Funerals are sad enough without having the person on display in my opinion.

Agreed. I hate funerals. I would much rather remember the person in better times, then have the last memory of them being dead and on display.

katherinex wrote:

Thank you [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] for that explanation. I'm not sure how I feel about open casket funerals as I don't think I would feel comfortable seeing the person who'd passed away in that situation. To me, it's not that person you knew anymore. Funerals are sad enough without having the person on display in my opinion.

I've been present at a couple of deathbeds, but have never been to an open casket funeral. My father and a friend both went to view the bodies of relatives at the funeral homes, and regretted doing so. I agree that the casket should remain closed. If people want to view the body at the funeral home, that's their choice.

Forcing people to file past Rachel's open casket seemed a bit sadistic. There was no way to leave without walking past. One of Rachel's teachers described how uncharacteristically stern Rachel looked. By opening the casket, the responsible person(s) ensured that everybody present had a very unpleasant final memory of seeing Rachel in the flesh. That's just wrong imo.

Watcher73 wrote:

katherinex wrote:

Thank you [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] for that explanation. I'm not sure how I feel about open casket funerals as I don't think I would feel comfortable seeing the person who'd passed away in that situation. To me, it's not that person you knew anymore. Funerals are sad enough without having the person on display in my opinion.

I've been present at a couple of deathbeds, but have never been to an open casket funeral. My father and a friend both went to view the bodies of relatives at the funeral homes, and regretted doing so. I agree that the casket should remain closed. If people want to view the body at the funeral home, that's their choice.

Forcing people to file past Rachel's open casket seemed a bit sadistic. There was no way to leave without walking past. One of Rachel's teachers described how uncharacteristically stern Rachel looked. By opening the casket, the responsible person(s) ensured that everybody present had a very unpleasant final memory of seeing Rachel in the flesh. That's just wrong imo.

Agreed.  In a sense they almost forced these kids to see her. Which probably did way more damage to them in the long run. So instead of clinging to good times of seeing a happy/smiling Rachel, likely every memory after that was tainted by seeing her laying there.

Also as well, how many of those kids who attended her funeral would have ran past her body on the way out of the school. Yeah they might not have realised it at the time but someone must have gone oh that's who it was from catching bits and pieces of the coverage of it.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Agreed.  In a sense they almost forced these kids to see her. Which probably did way more damage to them in the long run. So instead of clinging to good times of seeing a happy/smiling Rachel, likely every memory after that was tainted by seeing her laying there.

Absolutely. I find the prom photos of her to be really haunting, knowing that I'm looking at someone whose funeral was exactly a week away. I'd hate to think what people who knew her felt like when they compared those photos to their final memory of her.

Do we know that any of the victim's families got to see their kids before the funerals took place? Or due to their injuries were only some allowed to see their kids? I know that it's been reported that the families were asked for dental records to help the police identify their children in the library.

katherinex wrote:

Do we know that any of the victim's families got to see their kids before the funerals took place? Or due to their injuries were only some allowed to see their kids? I know that it's been reported that the families were asked for dental records to help the police identify their children in the library.

I think the Bernalls did if I remember the book correctly "She said Yes" while a bit outdated since we know she didn't, it is still an interesting read.

I think Kelly Flemmings family got to as well because she asked to take Kelly's braces off.

I'm surprised that they allowed Cassie's family to see her considering we were able to see the damage Eric did to himself with the shotgun. Unless they were able to reconstruct her injuries, like they did with Daniel Mauser's.

katherinex wrote:

I'm surprised that they allowed Cassie's family to see her considering we were able to see the damage Eric did to himself with the shotgun. Unless they were able to reconstruct her injuries, like they did with Daniel Mauser's.

Me too, because now that I think about it, Cassie had a closed casket funeral and it was because her parents saw her and said she didn't look like the Cassie they remembered, so they wanted people to remember her as the happy and beautiful Cassie they knew.

It is interesting when people describe the looks on their faces, no one looked peaceful. Dylan and Rachel had different looks on their faces. The 3 people I remember seeing in an open casket did not look stern or angry. I wonder if the way you die has something to do with it.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] that's a good point you make, about the way people look and the way they died. Because all their deaths were traumatic, whether they realised they were dying or not. It's a lot for anyone to go through dying the way they did, but the ages of some of them especially Steven only being 14. It must have been a massive shock to the system.

Screamingophelia wrote:

It is interesting when people describe the looks on their faces, no one looked peaceful. Dylan and Rachel had different looks on their faces. The 3 people I remember seeing in an open casket did not look stern or angry. I wonder if the way you die has something to do with it.

This made me curious, so I went looking for information on the topic. I found a post by a forensics specialist who said that they'd dealt with cases of people who'd died under terrible circumstances, and who'd probably known that their deaths were imminent. There was nothing on their faces to indicate this, and they looked almost peaceful.

They did say that physical circumstances can affect the face. For example, if the person was lying face down when rigor mortis set in, it could affect their expression. In addition, the Columbine victims' bodies remained where they'd died for some time. I would have thought that the effects of rigor mortis would have abated by the time of the funerals, since it is a temporary condition.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] as well when you look at the diagrams of how the victims bodies were found often the looked as though they were tucked up, but Lauren and Kelly looked as though they were stretched out so I wonder if Lauren and Kelly looked different because they looked as though they were lying partially on their backs. So rigor mortis would be present in their back wouldn't it?

Also has there ever been anything said about why Kelly and Daniel Mauser had their funerals at the same time. I've read Tom's book and he makes reference to how many funerals were taking place, but then he makes reference to Matthew Kechter's funerals that was taking place at the same church but the day after.

katherinex wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] as well when you look at the diagrams of how the victims bodies were found often the looked as though they were tucked up, but Lauren and Kelly looked as though they were stretched out so I wonder if Lauren and Kelly looked different because they looked as though they were lying partially on their backs. So rigor mortis would be present in their back wouldn't it?

Yes, rigor mortis would affect the back muscles. It usually just sets in in whatever position the person was in at the time of death. The other kids had probably hunched up in an instinctive attempt to avoid drawing attention to themselves, so rigor mortis set in in that position.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

I do think a lot of things surrounding her funeral were for shock value, also having to deal with the "She died for her faith" issue as well.  Between Rachel and Cassie, the church people had a field day and used it as a call to arms in a sense.

Even if it was less then the truth, at least in Cassie's case.  The jury is still out on whether Rachel was really asked if she believed in God, as Richard has had different recollections of the event over the years.

In this case I'd like to defend the folks at the funeral for a change. At that early point in time nobody was sure what was really going on. For all I know, rumors about the God question (which was actually asked in the library) were already flying. These guys really had a reason then to think there might be something to the whole christian side of the shooting.


I'm just surprised that after such a long time and so much information becoming available people still cling to this notion. I do not think they had an agenda then, I'm sure as hell sure that they have an agenda now.

To open casket Daniel Mauser had open casket he he was shot like Cassie bernall I believe? his face reconstructed due the broken bones.