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 "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words.

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Moseley
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rik75




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PostSubject: "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words.   "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words. Icon_minitimeWed Oct 23, 2013 4:12 pm

Who knows? I wish i knew, i wonder if they shook hands and patted each other on the back. I wonder if they got emotional? Hmmm... I really want the answer to this unanswerable question!!!! "Farewell my friend ,we did it ,we ACTUALLY did it! Its been good knowing you, I couldn't have picked a better partner (in crime,not bed) Well its time to go to the next level ,That was fu**ing awesome! My nose is fu**ed up man! Aint gonna fu** with us no more!!" Now this IS going to really wind me up. Did they high 5? I wonder if they were nervous about blowing their own brains out? I guess they weren't & i guess they were. ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? WHO FLAMING KNOWS???
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Wideawake

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PostSubject: Re: "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words.   "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words. Icon_minitimeWed Oct 23, 2013 4:49 pm

Do you even need words at that point? What could they possibly have said to each other that could have meant more than the fact that they did it together? I mean, I don't know. Maybe they did talk. Maybe they said "Dude, that didn't turn out how we planned but it was still awesome" or "I can't believe we actually did that" or "hurry up, i think the cops are coming". We could speculate all day.

In all honesty, while I would never ever do something like this, IF I DID I can't imagine trusting even my best friends to plan it with me and go through it with me and die with me. That's crazy.
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rik75




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PostSubject: Re: "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words.   "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words. Icon_minitimeWed Oct 23, 2013 5:57 pm

Wideawake wrote:
Do you even need words at that point? What could they possibly have said to each other that could have meant more than the fact that they did it together? I mean, I don't know. Maybe they did talk. Maybe they said "Dude, that didn't turn out how we planned but it was still awesome" or "I can't believe we actually did that" or "hurry up, i think the cops are coming". We could speculate all day.

In all honesty, while I would never ever do something like this, IF I DID I can't imagine trusting even my best friends to plan it with me and go through it with me and die with me. That's crazy.
Hi Wideawake, we all know what they did ,we all know who they killed and attempted to kill. I guess i am interested in the final killings ,of themselves. I know all we can do is speculate about this. I wonder if they dropped their ' hard guys 'act and showed any remorse for their actions? I wonder if Eric dropped any tears and thought about his parents and how they would be so affected by it all. I don't think Dylan would have felt bad about his actions because he enjoyed it so much. My problem is this : I want answers to questions that are unanswerable !Question
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PostSubject: Re: "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words.   "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words. Icon_minitimeThu Oct 24, 2013 6:06 am

In my opinion, I don't think they said much to each other. I don't think they counted to 3 because that would have been kind of hard, considering Eric had a shotgun in his mouth. Also, there wasn't much time. Dylan lit a Molotov on the table right beside them and before it could even explode, Eric's brain matter ended up on the table. I don't know how long it takes a Molotov to explode though. But they did find parts of Eric's brain on the table under the exploded bomb.

My guess is that right after Dylan lit this Molotov, Eric shot himself. Dylan probably saw him dead. The suicide photos pretty much confirm Eric was dead first. A few seconds after Eric, Dylan probably shot himself.

But I wonder too what they said to each other. When they left the cafeteria and were walking back up to library, I wonder if they talked to each other. I wonder if Eric told Dylan how disappointed he was that the cafeteria bombs failed and that the whole thing was a failure. I am thinking they probably didn't say much. They probably asked each other where they wanted to commit the suicide. I'm sure once they got back into the library one of them asked the other if the spot they picked was good.

I think they picked that spot all the way in the back of the library on purpose. I think they knew it would be awhile before police would find them and I think they wanted police to think they were still lurking around in the school.

Who knows though? We never will.

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MarmaladeSkies




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PostSubject: Re: "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words.   "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words. Icon_minitimeThu Oct 24, 2013 11:27 am

They had opted out of a conventional life for NBK. I don't think they had any regret for their choice but I do think they had remorse for their families and loved ones. I think some of their last thoughts as they kneeled down for suicide was about their infamy and legacy. What impact would they have on this world? I wonder if minutes really felt like hours for Dylan. I wonder if it was all just a game of Doom for Eric.
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rik75




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PostSubject: Re: "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words.   "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words. Icon_minitimeThu Oct 24, 2013 7:00 pm

MarmaladeSkies wrote:
They had opted out of a conventional life for NBK. I don't think they had any regret for their choice but I do think they had remorse for their families and loved ones. I think some of their last thoughts as they kneeled down for suicide was about their infamy and legacy. What impact would they have on this world? I wonder if minutes really felt like hours for Dylan. I wonder if it was all just a game of Doom for Eric.
Hi MarmaladeSkies, DOOM ,now that's a thought. Kind of like acting out his fantasy of DOOM?
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PostSubject: Re: "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words.   "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words. Icon_minitimeFri Oct 25, 2013 12:59 pm

What the hell? I posted the same message two times and it doesnt appear here?
Did it got deleted or something?
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rik75




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PostSubject: Re: "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words.   "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words. Icon_minitimeFri Oct 25, 2013 1:35 pm

Hale-Bopp wrote:
What the hell? I posted the same message two times and it doesnt appear here?
Did it got deleted or something?
Hi Hale-Bopp ,i don't know why that's happened. It has happened to me a few times:?:
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PostSubject: Re: "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words.   "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words. Icon_minitimeFri Oct 25, 2013 1:49 pm

rik75 wrote:
Hale-Bopp wrote:
What the hell? I posted the same message two times and it doesnt appear here?
Did it got deleted or something?
Hi Hale-Bopp ,i don't know why that's happened. It has happened to me a few times:?:
I also dont know why it happened, so I try it again.

Quote :
My guess is that right after Dylan lit this Molotov, Eric shot himself. Dylan probably saw him dead. The suicide photos pretty much confirm Eric was dead first.
For my knowledge, E+Ds bodies were moved, before the photos were taken, so they are not very telling about the suicides. Someone also told me, that there are sources, who claim, that the bodies were not moved, but this would raise questions: When Dylan killed himself with the Tec-9, why does he hold Erics pumpgun in his right hand? If the corpses were moved, there would be an explanation for this.


I initially wanted to mention, that Pattie Nielsen heard someone yelling "1-2-3" about the time the police believes, Eric and Dylan killed themselves. But now, someone told me, that Nielsen later told the press, that she never said that, so Im not sure.


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PostSubject: Re: "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words.   "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words. Icon_minitimeFri Oct 25, 2013 2:20 pm

Hale-Bopp wrote:
I initially wanted to mention, that Pattie Nielsen heard someone yelling "1-2-3" about the time the police believes, Eric and Dylan killed themselves. But now, someone told me, that Nielsen later told the press, that she never said that, so Im not sure.
Yeah that's right.
It was originally mentioned in an August 22nd 1999 article in the Rocky Mountain News that  "Art teacher Patti Nielson, hiding in a cabinet, heard voices in unison count, one! two! three! then she heard a loud boom."
Kate Batten requested IO recontact Patti regarding this statement, it was not mentioned in her original statement with police.
According to Nielson she was aware of the quote in the Rocky Mountain News. When asked if that was accurate she responded in the negative. Nielson told IO that she had never spoken to the news staff writers of the article in the Rocky Mountain News, nor did she recall ever been interviewed by the paper. However she did recall been interviewed by the Denver Post but denied making the statement which was quoted in the Rocky Mountain News.
Nielson said she was unaware of the source of the quote, but speculated it could have come from someone she had spoken to who then relayed this information to the Rocky Mountain News. She said over the course of time she has had numerous conversations with friends, students and associates where she speculated on how Eric and Dylan died. Nielson said she could have envisioned a scenario where they did a countdown then shot themselves simultaneously. She clarified this was not something she observed but was purely speculation.
Patti Nielson said she made no observations concerning the point where Eric and Dylan died but she had a "feeling" they shot themselves simultaneously. She again mentioned this was just speculation.
Interestingly Nielson said that around 30 minuets to 45 minuets before she was evacuated by SWAT she did hear a "boom" noise which she believed came from the southwest corner of the library. She made no observations on the day but speculated this could have been associated with Eric and Dylan shooting themselves. She did not mention this in her original interview.
Nielson was evacuated from the library between 15:00 and 15:15. So if she did hear a "boom" this could have occurred between 14:15 - 14:45.
This is from pg(98-99)
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rik75




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PostSubject: Re: "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words.   "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words. Icon_minitimeFri Oct 25, 2013 4:54 pm

Jenn wrote:
In my opinion, I don't think they said much to each other. I don't think they counted to 3 because that would have been kind of hard, considering Eric had a shotgun in his mouth. Also, there wasn't much time. Dylan lit a Molotov on the table right beside them and before it could even explode, Eric's brain matter ended up on the table. I don't know how long it takes a Molotov to explode though. But they did find parts of Eric's brain on the table under the exploded bomb.

My guess is that right after Dylan lit this Molotov, Eric shot himself. Dylan probably saw him dead. The suicide photos pretty much confirm Eric was dead first. A few seconds after Eric, Dylan probably shot himself.

But I wonder too what they said to each other. When they left the cafeteria and were walking back up to library, I wonder if they talked to each other. I wonder if Eric told Dylan how disappointed he was that the cafeteria bombs failed and that the whole thing was a failure. I am thinking they probably didn't say much. They probably asked each other where they wanted to commit the suicide. I'm sure once they got back into the library one of them asked the other if the spot they picked was good.

I think they picked that spot all the way in the back of the library on purpose. I think they knew it would be awhile before police would find them and I think they wanted police to think they were still lurking around in the school.

Who knows though? We never will.
Hi Jenn, regarding E&D's final conversations, i would REALLY like to know what they spoke about and how they felt after all that horrific violence and killings. Putting the bomb failure aside ,did their acts of murder live up to their fantasies? When all that adrenaline had settled down and they were both in the abandoned library ,alone and defeated ,i yearn to know how they felt. Did they think about their parents? How did they feel about dying? Did they have any fear ? Did they look forward to death? Hmmm...I wonder if they embraced their impending doom ( no pun intended ) I wonder if they saw death as their gateway to freedom. In death they shall feel no more pain ,no more stress or ridicule. I wonder if they were afraid of death? If only there were answers!!!!Exclamation
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PostSubject: Re: "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words.   "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words. Icon_minitimeSun Oct 27, 2013 7:32 am

I think after the shooting in the library they had lost the most of their euphoria. I don't think that they had talked much after. I always see them more as Partners in crimes, than as best friends, so I think there was only a short farewell like: "We did it, right?" or something. I don't think they talk about her true feelings and thoughts in their last moments, but we'll never know.

At the end, they did not die in a heroic shootout with the police, but next to their victims. Was that a random choice or their last sign to mock the victims?
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PostSubject: Re: "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words.   "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words. Icon_minitimeSun Oct 27, 2013 10:33 am

I find it interesting that after killing people in the library they just wandered around, can`t imagine what was going thru their heads.

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PostSubject: Re: "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words.   "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words. Icon_minitimeSun Oct 27, 2013 11:21 am

Grandma wrote:
I think after the shooting in the library they had lost the most of their euphoria. I don't think that they had talked much after. I always see them more as Partners in crimes, than as best friends, so I think there was only a short farewell like: "We did it, right?" or something. I don't think they talk about her true feelings and thoughts in their last moments, but we'll never know.

At the end, they did not die in a heroic shootout with the police, but next to their victims. Was that a random choice or their last sign to mock the victims?
Hi Grandma ,(its kinda strange calling a stranger Grandma LOL)  We will never know the details of their last conversations ,only speculation can fill in the blanks. When they returned to the library ( for the final time ) i wonder if they walked around and looked at all the dead bodies? If they did ,i wonder how they felt? Did they think about all those lives they have destroyed ? All those parents ,brothers ,sisters ,Aunts ,uncles and friends of the CHILDREN ,THAT THEY DESTROYED?? Did they ' inspect ' the bodies with a morbid fascination? I wonder if they had written any notes (in the library) and gave a written account of their mindset? If so ,would the authorities have taken them and kept them secret? It hard to answer your question regarding why E&D committed suicide in the library. Perhaps they felt comfortable in there ,perhaps being in room full of dead bodies gave them comfort. I really don't know. Perhaps others ( in our forum ) could give us their thoughts and opinions.Question
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Wideawake

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PostSubject: Re: "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words.   "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words. Icon_minitimeMon Oct 28, 2013 11:51 pm

rik75, that's why we're all here. In search of answers to unanswerable questions. Smile

grandma, I'm curious to know why you think of them as partners in crime rather than best friends. I see them as both. Sure, they both had secrets even from each other, but then most of us do. Even from those we love best and who love us best.

I don't think they wrote any notes. I think they said all they had to say to the world. But I have no problems imagining JeffCo keeping such notes secret if they DID find them.

Why the library is an interesting question too. I wonder if it was the only "safe" place to go. There were still people all over the building, hundreds of them. There probably wasn't an empty classroom in the place. They had to have known that everybody had fled the library except for the injured/dead. So maybe they assumed it would be empty and a good place to finish things? Or maybe they chose it because it was truly the scene of the massacre.
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PostSubject: Re: "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words.   "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words. Icon_minitimeTue Oct 29, 2013 2:37 pm

Grandma wrote:
I think after the shooting in the library they had lost the most of their euphoria. I don't think that they had talked much after. I always see them more as Partners in crimes, than as best friends, so I think there was only a short farewell like: "We did it, right?" or something. I don't think they talk about her true feelings and thoughts in their last moments, but we'll never know.

At the end, they did not die in a heroic shootout with the police, but next to their victims. Was that a random choice or their last sign to mock the victims?
I think in Erc's opinion Dylan was his best friend, but in Dylan's mind it seems he saw Eric indeed as his partner in crime.

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PostSubject: Re: "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words.   "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words. Icon_minitimeSat Nov 09, 2013 3:49 am



Why the library is an interesting question too. I wonder if it was the only "safe" place to go.

***
It was the closest place they could be pretty sure hadn't been breached by police yet. Maybe they'd even left some gear there.

Also, they had a brief shootout w/ cops outside the library before they killed themselves. They'd shot through the windows already. Remember: killing cops was second on the "to-do" list -- right after blowing up the school.
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PostSubject: Re: "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words.   "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words. Icon_minitimeSat Nov 09, 2013 4:38 am

gustopoet wrote:


Why the library is an interesting question too. I wonder if it was the only "safe" place to go.

***
It was the closest place they could be pretty sure hadn't been breached by police yet. Maybe they'd even left some gear there.

Also, they had a brief shootout w/ cops outside the library before they killed themselves. They'd shot through the windows already. Remember: killing cops was second on the "to-do" list -- right after blowing up the school.
Do you think they knew that it would probably be the last place the cops would look? And that maybe they wanted the cops to think they were still hiding somewhere else in the school?

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PostSubject: Re: "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words.   "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words. Icon_minitimeSat Nov 09, 2013 11:00 am

I have been thinking about E&D's choice of location ( regarding their suicides ) Shortly after E&D left the library (for the last time) i think they both became bored. They walked south into the science area and threw some pipe bombs into an unoccupied storage room. It causes a fire and E&D run off to the north. Eric fires a few shots into an empty Science room 8. They both go back to the cafe and shoot at the propane bottles. Eric has a drink and Dylan throws a bomb at the propane. As E&D are making their way towards the stairway ,a propane bottle blows. They go upstairs and walk to the administrative offices that are to the east. They both fire shots as they walk. They leave the office area and head north through the art area and fire some shots into the ceiling. They return to the cafe and walk up to the kitchen area and then go back upstairs. They enter the library for the final time and walk over to the west windows and shoot at the police and rescue workers who are evacuating the injured. Then E&D kill themselves. Minutes after E&D left the library ( for the last time ) all the library kids made a run for it ( apart from the seriously injured Pat Ireland ) and would have told the police about the horrific library events. Also E&D were firing at the cops .etc from there. I think that the library would have been 1 of the first places that the police would focus on. E&D had a good vantage point in the library ,they had a good view of the senior parking lot. Why kill themselves in the library? They may have been spooked by the growing number of cops arriving. Moments before their deaths ,E&D shot at the police from the library west windows. They may have come back to the library ( initially ) to " kill some cops " and realized that there was no time ( or point ) to leave the library and commit suicide any where else. So ,they decided to die there. There may be many reasons why they chose the library. Who knows?


Last edited by rik75 on Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words.   "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words. Icon_minitimeSat Nov 09, 2013 12:10 pm

rik75 wrote:
I have been thinking about E&D's choice of location ( regarding their suicides ) Shortly after E&D left the library (for the last time) i think they both became bored. They walked south into the science area and threw some pipe bombs into an unoccupied storage room. It causes a fire and E&D run off to the north. Eric fires a few shots into an empty Science room 8. They both go back to the cafe and shoot at the propane bottles. Eric has a drink and Dylan throws a bomb at the propane. As E&D are making their way towards the stairway ,a propane bottle blows. They go upstairs and walk to the administrative offices that are to the east. They both fire shots as they walk. They leave the office area and head north through the art area and fire some shots into the ceiling. They return to the cafe and walk up to the kitchen area and then go back upstairs. They enter the library for the final time and walk over to the west windows and shoot at the police and rescue workers who are evacuating the injured. Then E&D kill themselves. Minutes after E&D left the library ( for the last time ) all the library kids made a run for it ( apart from the seriously injured Pat Ireland ) and would have told the police about the horrific library events. Also E&D were firing at the cops .etc from there. I think that the library would have been 1 of the first places that the police would focus on. E&D had a good vantage point in the library ,they had a good view of the senior parking lot. Why kill themselves in the library? They may have been spooked by the growing number of cops arriving. Moments before their deaths ,E&D shot at the police from the library west windows. They may have come back to the library ( initially ) to " kill some cops " and realized that there was no time ( or point ) to leave the library and commit suicide any where else. So ,they decided to die there. There may be many reasons why they chose the library. Who know??
I think Lisa Kreutz or somebody else was still there, albeit unconscious.
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PostSubject: Re: "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words.   "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words. Icon_minitimeSat Nov 09, 2013 12:59 pm

Jenn wrote:

Do you think they knew that it would probably be the last place the cops would look? And that maybe they wanted the cops to think they were still hiding somewhere else in the school?
Yes. Btw, I thought your post on their last moments was a very good description of what could have actually happened.
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PostSubject: Re: "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words.   "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words. Icon_minitimeSat Nov 09, 2013 2:16 pm

gustopoet wrote:
Jenn wrote:

Do you think they knew that it would probably be the last place the cops would look? And that maybe they wanted the cops to think they were still hiding somewhere else in the school?
Yes. Btw, I thought your post on their last moments was a very good description of what could have actually happened.
Thank you. That is just how I see it. I really don't think they said much or hugged each other. I think they were probably nervous though and I think Eric wanted to hurry up and get it over with. That is why I think he shot himself while Dylan was still lighting bombs.

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PostSubject: Re: "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words.   "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words. Icon_minitimeMon Mar 28, 2016 10:57 am

If the 911 call was released would it have picked up the conversation, or was the call already cut short by then?
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PostSubject: Re: "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words.   "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words. Icon_minitimeMon Mar 28, 2016 11:36 am

astrospace92 wrote:
If the 911 call was released would it have picked up the conversation, or was the call already cut short by then?
The call started at 11:27 AM and only lasted for 26 minutes. So no, it wouldn't have picked up them coming back into the Library because they didn't get back up there until a little after 12. You can see them leaving the Cafeteria on the CCTV at exactly 12 PM.

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PostSubject: Re: "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words.   "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words. Icon_minitimeMon Mar 28, 2016 11:48 am

I think Dylan's last words were "Eric, why did you pressure me into doing this?" to which Eric just laughed and blew his own brains out.
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PostSubject: Re: "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words.   "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words. Icon_minitimeMon Mar 28, 2016 11:49 am

Radioactive_Clothing wrote:
I think Dylan's last words were "Eric, why did you pressure me into doing this?" to which Eric just laughed and blew his own brains out.
The sad thing is, people will actually believe that.

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PostSubject: Re: "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words.   "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words. Icon_minitimeMon Mar 28, 2016 2:08 pm

Jenn wrote:
Radioactive_Clothing wrote:
I think Dylan's last words were "Eric, why did you pressure me into doing this?" to which Eric just laughed and blew his own brains out.
The sad thing is, people will actually believe that.

Indeed.

Jenn's earlier thoughts on this topic above are probably the most cogent that I have read and seem to make the most sense. I doubt much was said, but still....I'd give almost anything to know....

I did laugh a little when I read Radioactive Clothing's comment though.

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PostSubject: Re: "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words.   "1-2-3" BANG! BANG! I wish I knew their last words. Icon_minitimeMon Mar 28, 2016 7:27 pm

I think maybe they thanked each other for being there and helping go through with it, maybe said they'd see each other on the other side if they believed in it, and just said goodbye. I can see them maybe hugging for a second, but not very long.
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