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 Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head?

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toggafsyk

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PostSubject: Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head?   Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head? Icon_minitimeThu Nov 22, 2018 4:02 pm

Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head? I often read that Eric Harris died instantaneously and he didn't feel anything, is that correct?
Would you hear the trigger and then nothing? I know we can't ask a victim.
I would like your opinion about that.

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Last edited by toggafsyk on Fri Nov 23, 2018 6:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head?   Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head? Icon_minitimeThu Nov 22, 2018 4:28 pm

Yes thats correct.

It happens so quickly that before your body could even react your brains are on the ceiling. Sorry for the graphic detail.

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PostSubject: Re: Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head?   Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head? Icon_minitimeThu Nov 22, 2018 4:59 pm

There have been cases where a self inflicted shotgun blast to the face/head have not killed the person, and they have either lived the rest of their lives horribly disfigured or as a brain dead vegetable. Definitely not worth the risk... I've always had a fear of killing myself that way, I imagine what it might be like not knowing whether you are dead or in a coma.
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PostSubject: Re: Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head?   Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head? Icon_minitimeThu Nov 22, 2018 5:05 pm

Yes, of course, you would notice it. In Eric's case, he shot himself in the head slightly towards the right side of his head. Probably because he used his left hand to secure the gun in his mouth and used his right hand to pull the trigger.

He blew out part of his skull, brain, cortex, and brainstem. So he was dead instantly and no, he probably didn't feel anything.

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PostSubject: Re: Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head?   Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head? Icon_minitimeThu Nov 22, 2018 5:28 pm

there is a thread in 'other mass shootings' discussing how shooters commited suicide, people said Dylan could have suffered for a few minets before becoming an hero.
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PostSubject: Re: Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head?   Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head? Icon_minitimeThu Nov 22, 2018 6:48 pm

lol he was so heroic.
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PostSubject: Re: Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head?   Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head? Icon_minitimeThu Nov 22, 2018 7:36 pm

In Eric's case, the rhombencephalon was totally destroyed, so he wouldn't have felt anything. Before the first impulse of pain could even be registered, his central nervous system had already been severed. Dylan, on the other hand, screwed up royally (presumably because he watched too many movies and didn't pay attention in biology), but still not as badly as William Atchison.
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PostSubject: Re: Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head?   Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head? Icon_minitimeThu Nov 22, 2018 7:37 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
there is a thread in 'other mass shootings' discussing how shooters commited suicide, people said Dylan could have suffered for a few minets before becoming an hero.

He did. He shot himself in the temple with a much smaller bullet.

Eric did it the right way.

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PostSubject: Re: Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head?   Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head? Icon_minitimeFri Nov 23, 2018 1:44 am

In my opinion, I think Dylan and Eric were both supposed to commit suicide with a shotgun to the mouth. Literally, everything else they did that day matched, so I'm inclined to believe that they were supposed to have matching suicides as well.

Dylan had set aside 1 shotgun bullet and put it into his boot. I think that bullet was meant for him. I think he changed his mind after he saw how the shotgun blast ripped Eric's head apart.

It's more than obvious that even though Dylan had been wanting to kill himself for 2-3 years, he could never actually bring himself to do it. He needed to use Columbine as a way to commit suicide. He knew once he murdered people, death was really his only option. He didn't wanna sit in prison for the rest of his life and he was too much of a coward to just kill himself and leave innocent people out of it. That is exactly what he meant in his journal when he said, "maybe NBK is the only way to break free". "Break free" as in, die and "a way" as in, "if I kill other people, then I have to kill myself".

In the end, I don't think Eric really said anything to Dylan when he killed himself. I think he stopped shooting out the window, sat down and killed himself. I'm like 99% sure Dylan saw Eric kill himself and because of the massive damage it did to Eric's face and head, Dylan decided to use a tec 9 to the temple instead of a shotgun to the mouth.

Everything these 2 did that day matched each other. Even the flannel shirts they wore that morning when they took the bombs in matched. The had matching match strikers on their wrists. So why wouldn't their deaths match as well?

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PostSubject: Re: Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head?   Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head? Icon_minitimeFri Nov 23, 2018 2:02 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
In my opinion, I think Dylan and Eric were both supposed to commit suicide with a shotgun to the mouth. Literally, everything else they did that day matched, so I'm inclined to believe that they were supposed to have matching suicides as well.

Dylan had set aside 1 shotgun bullet and put it into his boot. I think that bullet was meant for him. I think he changed his mind after he saw how the shotgun blast ripped Eric's head apart.

It's more than obvious that even though Dylan had been wanting to kill himself for 2-3 years, he could never actually bring himself to do it. He needed to use Columbine as a way to commit suicide. He knew once he murdered people, death was really his only option. He didn't wanna sit in prison for the rest of his life and he was too much of a coward to just kill himself and leave innocent people out of it. That is exactly what he meant in his journal when he said, "maybe NBK is the only way to break free". "Break free" as in, die and "a way" as in, "if I kill other people, then I have to kill myself".

In the end, I don't think Eric really said anything to Dylan when he killed himself. I think he stopped shooting out the window, sat down and killed himself. I'm like 99% sure Dylan saw Eric kill himself and because of the massive damage it did to Eric's face and head, Dylan decided to use a tec 9 to the temple instead of a shotgun to the mouth.

Everything these 2 did that day matched each other. Even the flannel shirts they wore that morning when they took the bombs in matched. The had matching match strikers on their wrists. So why wouldn't their deaths match as well?


I've always just assumed that was why Dylan shot himself in the temple. After it was confirmed for sure that Eric had to have shot himself first because of brain matter under the Molotov cocktail oil, it made my assumption that much more assured. I mean, if you were gonna kill yourself, and you saw how your friend killed them self and it just absolutely destroyed their body when they did it... you'd probably have second thoughts about going out that way.

I don't think there were any goodbyes. I think you're right. Eric just sat down and did it. Dylan saw the aftermath or hell maybe even the suicide and chickened out.
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PostSubject: Re: Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head?   Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head? Icon_minitimeFri Nov 23, 2018 2:33 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
In my opinion, I think Dylan and Eric were both supposed to commit suicide with a shotgun to the mouth. Literally, everything else they did that day matched, so I'm inclined to believe that they were supposed to have matching suicides as well.

Dylan had set aside 1 shotgun bullet and put it into his boot. I think that bullet was meant for him. I think he changed his mind after he saw how the shotgun blast ripped Eric's head apart.

It's more than obvious that even though Dylan had been wanting to kill himself for 2-3 years, he could never actually bring himself to do it. He needed to use Columbine as a way to commit suicide. He knew once he murdered people, death was really his only option. He didn't wanna sit in prison for the rest of his life and he was too much of a coward to just kill himself and leave innocent people out of it. That is exactly what he meant in his journal when he said, "maybe NBK is the only way to break free". "Break free" as in, die and "a way" as in, "if I kill other people, then I have to kill myself".

In the end, I don't think Eric really said anything to Dylan when he killed himself. I think he stopped shooting out the window, sat down and killed himself. I'm like 99% sure Dylan saw Eric kill himself and because of the massive damage it did to Eric's face and head, Dylan decided to use a tec 9 to the temple instead of a shotgun to the mouth.

Everything these 2 did that day matched each other. Even the flannel shirts they wore that morning when they took the bombs in matched. The had matching match strikers on their wrists. So why wouldn't their deaths match as well?

Makes sense to me. Just in the interest of playing devil's advocate, not 'literally everything' matched. For example, Eric apparently did not wear his hat. I thought the flannel shirts were different colors at least. Also, presumably Eric wasn't the first time Dylan saw what a shotgun blast to the head looked like.  

But otherwise I agree. It makes sense they would have thought of the same suicide plan. In Postal you shoot yourself in the mouth. The KMFDM song "Piggybank" says "And if I had a shotgun I'd blow myself to hell". Eric mentions blowing someone's head off with a shotgun in Hitmen for Hire, etc.

I agree it's "more than obvious" that Dylan wanted to commit suicide, yet was reluctant to do so without something forcing him and without a bigger reason than his own sadness. In the National Enquirer article which speculated that Eric shot Dylan, it cited as evidence how far away Dylan's shotgun was from him. I don't know how that has anything to do with that idea, since that idea would require showing it was the carbine rifle rather than the TEC-9, but one can imagine Dylan tossing his shotgun aside after seeing Eric kill himself.

And of course the bullet in Dylan's boot was to make sure he could die even if he ran out of ammo. I've never heard another reason even imagined.

Hard to believe they said nothing to each other, though. Even if it was out in the hall rather than in the library.  Indeed, the above picture of Dylan's reluctance to commit suicide adds some weight to Krabbe's idea that Lisa Kreutz's testimony about one asking the other "Are you with me; we're still gonna do this right?" or something like that must have been when they entered the library the second time and not the first, contra what she said. As Krabbe points out, Kreutz is the only one who mentions this, and she was still in the library the second time.  As we seem to be saying here, Dylan wasn't reluctant to kill people; he was reluctant to die.
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PostSubject: Re: Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head?   Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head? Icon_minitimeThu Nov 29, 2018 8:49 am

No, Eric would not have had the time to realize anything. Before his brain could have had the time to process anything, it was already splattered all over the place. Dylan, on the other hand, injured only his frontal and temporal lobes, not his midbrain and brainstem, so he was likely at least partially aware of suffocating in his own blood.

As for what went down between the two of them, it's a matter of speculation as we will never know for sure. I feel that they went back to the library mostly to see if at least the car bombs exploded, and perhaps to get a shot at first responders from a vantage point. Since neither the bombs detonated nor they could hurt anyone, and they were pinned down by heavy police fire, they decided to cut it short.

Did they exchange words? I can picture Eric saying something along the lines of "fuck it, end scene, see you in hell," but nothing more than that, even assuming that with all the smoke, fire alarm blaring, police shooting and sirens outside, they could still listen to each other.
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PostSubject: Re: Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head?   Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head? Icon_minitimeThu Nov 29, 2018 8:55 am

Was the bullet in Dylan’s boot for his Tec-9 or his shotgun?

Dylan only use a shotgun in the cafeteria right?

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PostSubject: Re: Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head?   Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head? Icon_minitimeThu Nov 29, 2018 9:46 am

AdamnLanza wrote:
There have been cases where a self inflicted shotgun blast to the face/head have not killed the person, and they have either lived the rest of their lives horribly disfigured or as a brain dead vegetable. Definitely not worth the risk... I've always had a fear of killing myself that way, I imagine what it might be like not knowing whether you are dead or in a coma.

This is why I would never consider suicide this way
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PostSubject: Re: Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head?   Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head? Icon_minitimeThu Nov 29, 2018 9:48 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Was the bullet in Dylan’s boot for his Tec-9 or his shotgun?

Dylan only use a shotgun in the cafeteria right?

Pretty sure the bullet in his boot was for his shotgun, and dylan used his shotgun in the library killings, didn't he?
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PostSubject: Re: Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head?   Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head? Icon_minitimeThu Nov 29, 2018 9:52 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Was the bullet in Dylan’s boot for his Tec-9 or his shotgun?

Dylan only use a shotgun in the cafeteria right?

Pretty sure the bullet in his boot was for his shotgun, and dylan used his shotgun in the library killings, didn't he?


That’s a good question because I thought he only used Tec-9 in the library. But I haven’t looked at the ballistics report in a while. There’s a chart that tells you what guns were used

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PostSubject: Re: Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head?   Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head? Icon_minitimeThu Nov 29, 2018 9:57 am

Dylan shot kyle and Matt with his shotgun in the library.

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PostSubject: Re: Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head?   Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head? Icon_minitimeThu Nov 29, 2018 9:59 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Dylan shot kyle and Matt with his shotgun in the library.

I was gonna say cause a lot of students in the library got injured from the spread of buckshot BBs

He was also reloading it when he asked the "do you believe in god, why" question
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PostSubject: Re: Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head?   Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head? Icon_minitimeSun Jan 06, 2019 3:06 pm

What were the last words E & D said before the suicides?
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PostSubject: Re: Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head?   Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head? Icon_minitimeSun Jan 06, 2019 3:26 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
What were the last words E & D said before the suicides?
their heartfelt declarations of love for one other

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PostSubject: Re: Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head?   Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head? Icon_minitimeTue Jan 08, 2019 5:32 am

Eric had a single barrel pump action shotgun. Dylan's was a side by side double barrel.
Fitting a double barrel side by side in your mouth is almost impossible not to mention unless you pull both triggers at once, it will fire to the side.

I don't think Dylan's shotgun was best suited for the job which leads me to doubt he ever planned to kill himself with it.
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PostSubject: Re: Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head?   Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head? Icon_minitimeTue Jan 08, 2019 5:35 am

Also I just read the autopsy again and the bullet in his boot was a 9mm
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PostSubject: 1 2 3 jello   Would you notice a self inflicted shotgun blast to the Head? Icon_minitimeSun Jan 13, 2019 8:55 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
What were the last words E & D said before the suicides?

Probably NOT "One! Two! Three!"
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