Articles like this is why so much information was misconstrued.

The Denver post released so much false information, calling Eric & Dylan goths, implying they proudly wore swastikas around school, killed because of Hitler and his birthday, and went through the yearbook writing "dead, dying or save" on everyone's pictures. This is just one article out of many, and people took this information and ran with it, further mixing up the facts. Just like a childhood game of "telephone" by the time it went full circle, the facts were grossly misconstrued. You would think a reputable news organization would at least do some sort of fact checking, but it seems most were more worried about breaking a good story.

Noelle Porter, 17, a senior at Columbine, said she had a bowling class with both Dylan and Eric early each morning.

"Everyone's saying that people were always after them. But it wasn't that way at all. It was the opposite,'' she said. "They really didn't seem to like other people.''

This stands out to me because I've always believed that although E & D were bullied, it wasn't to the extent that people make it out to be.
E & D bullied kids they didn't like just as much if not more then they themselves were bullied. I firmly believe this to be true.
What do you guys think?


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I have a couple thoughts. As you know I do believe they were bullied and there was a bullying issue. I also am in the minority because I think the Adam Kyler thing was overblown.

It also doesn’t make sense to me if they were such big bullies how did they get away with so much and yet complain about the jocks getting away with so much?

However I think towards the end end of junior year and senior year they started pulling away from even the people that they were friends with. I think Eric had a hard time keeping friends because of his temper. I also think he glommed onto Dylan pretty hard. And Dylan wasn’t the type of person just to abandon someone.

Do I think they bulled people, yes. They probably were pretty big jerks. Sometimes you just don’t like someone and other times it’s retaliation for what you’re going through. I think with Dylan he was so tired of being nice and feeling so different that he was like well screw that, why do I have to be the nice one, why do I have to be the sweet one?

I also think they were teenagers and sometimes teenagers can be jerks. I believe both perceptions. I think it was Alex or Robyn who said if they liked you they were the sweetest people but if they didn’t like you they were jerks

Screamingophelia wrote:

I have a couple thoughts. As you know I do believe they were bullied and there was a bullying issue. I also am in the minority because I think the Adam Kyler thing was overblown.

It also doesn’t make sense to me if they were such big bullies how did they get away with so much and yet complain about the jocks getting away with so much?

However I think towards the end end of junior year and senior year they started pulling away from even the people that they were friends with. I think Eric had a hard time keeping friends because of his temper. I also think he glommed onto Dylan pretty hard. And Dylan wasn’t the type of person just to abandon someone.

Do I think they bulled people, yes. They probably were pretty big jerks. Sometimes you just don’t like someone and other times it’s retaliation for what you’re going through. I think with Dylan he was so tired of being nice and feeling so different that he was like well screw that, why do I have to be the nice one, why do I have to be the sweet one?

I also think they were teenagers and sometimes teenagers can be jerks. I believe both perceptions. I think it was Alex or Robyn  who said if they liked you they were the sweetest people but if they didn’t like you they were jerks

To answer your first question, I chalk it up to typical teenage behavior. I remember in high-school kids would join other kids in bullying people to fit in, but god forbid someone bullied the kids who were the bullies then all of a sudden it was an issue to them. It's one of those things where if you're on the short end of the stick, then you'd complain. I believe the same for E & D as they had no issues making fun of people, but the second it came back around to them, they didn't like it. From my experience, kids who are bullied usually will bully others too, to sort of make themselves feel better.

E & D had a huge superiority complex. If they didn't deem you "worthy", you were nothing in their eyes. They were far from innocent when it came to bullying people. Yes, they were bullied, but they also had a decent amount of friends, and even were able to have a few girls take interest in them. It's funny to me that Dylan knew Robyn was into him, yet it seems he felt like she wasn't up to his "standards". They both talked about wanting to get laid very bad, and even though Dylan knew he was going to die and that Robyn would of gave it up to him in all likeliness, he still chose to die a virgin.

IMO it is super important to get a story's facts right from the start, or it will forever taint the truth. Many facts about Columbine were overblown.  
For instance, Evan Todd stated they were "freaks who wore make-up, and were into voodoo"
People still to this day think E & D were goth outcasts, who loved Hitler and chose 4/20 as a nod to him.

slippy123 wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

I have a couple thoughts. As you know I do believe they were bullied and there was a bullying issue. I also am in the minority because I think the Adam Kyler thing was overblown.

It also doesn’t make sense to me if they were such big bullies how did they get away with so much and yet complain about the jocks getting away with so much?

However I think towards the end end of junior year and senior year they started pulling away from even the people that they were friends with. I think Eric had a hard time keeping friends because of his temper. I also think he glommed onto Dylan pretty hard. And Dylan wasn’t the type of person just to abandon someone.

Do I think they bulled people, yes. They probably were pretty big jerks. Sometimes you just don’t like someone and other times it’s retaliation for what you’re going through. I think with Dylan he was so tired of being nice and feeling so different that he was like well screw that, why do I have to be the nice one, why do I have to be the sweet one?

I also think they were teenagers and sometimes teenagers can be jerks. I believe both perceptions. I think it was Alex or Robyn  who said if they liked you they were the sweetest people but if they didn’t like you they were jerks

To answer your first question, I chalk it up to typical teenage behavior. I remember in high-school kids would join other kids in bullying people to fit in, but god forbid someone bullied the kids who were the bullies then all of a sudden it was an issue to them. It's one of those things where if you're on the short end of the stick, then you'd complain. I believe the same for E & D as they had no issues making fun of people, but the second it came back around to them, they didn't like it. From my experience, kids who are bullied usually will bully others too, to sort of make themselves feel better.

E & D had a huge superiority complex. If they didn't deem you "worthy", you were nothing in their eyes. They were far from innocent when it came to bullying people. Yes, they were bullied, but they also had a decent amount of friends, and even were able to have a few girls take interest in them. It's funny to me that Dylan knew Robyn was into him, yet it seems he felt like she wasn't up to his "standards". They both talked about wanting to get laid very bad, and even though Dylan knew he was going to die and that Robyn would of gave it up to him in all likeliness, he still chose to die a virgin.

IMO it is super important to get a story's facts right from the start, or it will forever taint the truth. Many facts about Columbine were overblown.  
For instance, Evan Todd stated they were "freaks who wore make-up, and were into voodoo"
People still to this day think E & D were goth outcasts, who loved Hitler and chose 4/20 as a nod to him.

I agree with a lot of what you said. However, I think towards the end it was Eric who cared far more about getting laid than Dylan. That’s just a small nitpick.

Also Dylan seemed to lead Robyn on a bit. Letting her flirt with him, going to prom
As a means to an end. Plus we don’t have proof they didn’t fool around, like Robyn’s going to admit that publicly.

You are right there so a lot of misinformation going around to this day.

Screamingophelia wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

I have a couple thoughts. As you know I do believe they were bullied and there was a bullying issue. I also am in the minority because I think the Adam Kyler thing was overblown.

It also doesn’t make sense to me if they were such big bullies how did they get away with so much and yet complain about the jocks getting away with so much?

However I think towards the end end of junior year and senior year they started pulling away from even the people that they were friends with. I think Eric had a hard time keeping friends because of his temper. I also think he glommed onto Dylan pretty hard. And Dylan wasn’t the type of person just to abandon someone.

Do I think they bulled people, yes. They probably were pretty big jerks. Sometimes you just don’t like someone and other times it’s retaliation for what you’re going through. I think with Dylan he was so tired of being nice and feeling so different that he was like well screw that, why do I have to be the nice one, why do I have to be the sweet one?

I also think they were teenagers and sometimes teenagers can be jerks. I believe both perceptions. I think it was Alex or Robyn  who said if they liked you they were the sweetest people but if they didn’t like you they were jerks

To answer your first question, I chalk it up to typical teenage behavior. I remember in high-school kids would join other kids in bullying people to fit in, but god forbid someone bullied the kids who were the bullies then all of a sudden it was an issue to them. It's one of those things where if you're on the short end of the stick, then you'd complain. I believe the same for E & D as they had no issues making fun of people, but the second it came back around to them, they didn't like it. From my experience, kids who are bullied usually will bully others too, to sort of make themselves feel better.

E & D had a huge superiority complex. If they didn't deem you "worthy", you were nothing in their eyes. They were far from innocent when it came to bullying people. Yes, they were bullied, but they also had a decent amount of friends, and even were able to have a few girls take interest in them. It's funny to me that Dylan knew Robyn was into him, yet it seems he felt like she wasn't up to his "standards". They both talked about wanting to get laid very bad, and even though Dylan knew he was going to die and that Robyn would of gave it up to him in all likeliness, he still chose to die a virgin.

IMO it is super important to get a story's facts right from the start, or it will forever taint the truth. Many facts about Columbine were overblown.  
For instance, Evan Todd stated they were "freaks who wore make-up, and were into voodoo"
People still to this day think E & D were goth outcasts, who loved Hitler and chose 4/20 as a nod to him.

I agree with a lot of what you said. However, I think towards the end it was Eric who cared far more about getting laid than Dylan. That’s just a small nitpick.

Also Dylan seemed to lead Robyn on a bit. Letting her flirt with him, going to prom
As a means to an end. Plus we don’t have proof they didn’t fool around, like Robyn’s going to admit that publicly.

You are right there so a lot of misinformation going around to this day.

If we base it off of journal entries, it does seem Eric wanted it more, but that is all speculation at the end of the day, as we will never really know.
Losing your virginity is a huge right of passage for guys (and girls too to a certain extent) in high-school, and from experience, with raging hormones, sex is on a guy's mind more so than most things at that age.
Especially if they have friends who have girlfriends / had sex and brag about it, it makes them want it even more. No one wants to be known as the virgin out of a group of guy friends.
It probably wasn't Dylan's main priority, but if I knew I was going to die and had the chance to lose my V-Card, I'd most defiantly go for it

I give a bit of leniency to this kind of article just because it was written on April 22 99. I know that it does spread misinformation however. There are so many surface "researchers' that believe a lot of the early information and unfortunately nothing short of correcting them and pointing them to further resources fixes it.

Also unfortunately a lot of these people are also the kind to get extremely offended when you tell them they are wrong

Lizpuff wrote:

I give a bit of leniency to this kind of article just because it was written on April 22 99.  I know that it does spread misinformation however.  There are so many surface "researchers' that believe a lot of the early information and unfortunately nothing short of correcting them and pointing them to further resources fixes it.

Also unfortunately a lot of these people are also the kind to get extremely offended when you tell them they are wrong

Very true. Those articles should of been taken down or edited for corrections to maintain some sort of credibility.
Selling a good story is always more profitable then stating the facts.

When I look back at my old post from Wayback in the day I see a lot of the stuff that has been debunked and we all believed it. There is a lot of the whole sweet Dylan thing and Eric was the mastermind Eric was the bad seed. They were the most unpopular people.

I started following a YT channel earlier this year that focused on true crime. I really liked it and wished I wouldn't have checked out the owner of the channel. I found he listed Columbine as one of his interests. I decided to message him to see if he was going to make a video about it and we got to talking.

He was the most obtuse pig headed person about this crime with all the myths that he believed and couldn't be told to believe differently. Ruined the channel for me.

Lizpuff wrote:

I started following a YT channel earlier this year that focused on true crime.  I really liked it and wished I wouldn't have checked out the owner of the channel.  I found he listed Columbine as one of his interests.  I decided to message him to see if he was going to make a video about it and we got to talking.

He was the most obtuse pig headed person about this crime with all the myths that he believed and couldn't be told to believe differently.  Ruined the channel for me.

That is so frustrating. I met a fellow playwright and true crime lover who wrote a play about Columbine and Sandyhook. And I posted a part of the play here. She got so much stuff wrong even though she said she researched a lot and she refused to believe me when I gave her facts . I mean she has Lauren say I’ll never go to senior prom. Lauren literally went to senior prom three days before...

It's wild how many people still believe all of this stuff when the real information is out there. It's just a simple Google search away.

I guess for some people telling themselves that Eric and Dylan were Nazis/Satanists/Etc. makes it easier for them to process the tragedy.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

I started following a YT channel earlier this year that focused on true crime.  I really liked it and wished I wouldn't have checked out the owner of the channel.  I found he listed Columbine as one of his interests.  I decided to message him to see if he was going to make a video about it and we got to talking.

He was the most obtuse pig headed person about this crime with all the myths that he believed and couldn't be told to believe differently.  Ruined the channel for me.

That is so frustrating. I met a fellow playwright and true crime lover who wrote a play about Columbine and Sandyhook. And I posted a part of the play here. She got so much stuff wrong even though she said she researched a lot and she refused to believe me when I gave her facts . I mean she has Lauren say I’ll never go to senior prom. Lauren literally went to senior prom three days before...

Columbine is one of those crimes where since some major facts were skewed right from the jump, people have created their own narrative.
There are aspects of the massacre to which we will never know exactly what was said or went down, so it is fine to have theories on how certain things played out.
But the facts are the facts. At least you realized that you were wrong in believing certain things and accept the facts, so koodos to you.
When people try to dispute the cold hard facts, I just let them live in their fantasy world because you will get nothing but aggravation trying to tell these people the facts are right in front of them.

slippy123 wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

I have a couple thoughts. As you know I do believe they were bullied and there was a bullying issue. I also am in the minority because I think the Adam Kyler thing was overblown.

It also doesn’t make sense to me if they were such big bullies how did they get away with so much and yet complain about the jocks getting away with so much?

However I think towards the end end of junior year and senior year they started pulling away from even the people that they were friends with. I think Eric had a hard time keeping friends because of his temper. I also think he glommed onto Dylan pretty hard. And Dylan wasn’t the type of person just to abandon someone.

Do I think they bulled people, yes. They probably were pretty big jerks. Sometimes you just don’t like someone and other times it’s retaliation for what you’re going through. I think with Dylan he was so tired of being nice and feeling so different that he was like well screw that, why do I have to be the nice one, why do I have to be the sweet one?

I also think they were teenagers and sometimes teenagers can be jerks. I believe both perceptions. I think it was Alex or Robyn  who said if they liked you they were the sweetest people but if they didn’t like you they were jerks

To answer your first question, I chalk it up to typical teenage behavior. I remember in high-school kids would join other kids in bullying people to fit in, but god forbid someone bullied the kids who were the bullies then all of a sudden it was an issue to them. It's one of those things where if you're on the short end of the stick, then you'd complain. I believe the same for E & D as they had no issues making fun of people, but the second it came back around to them, they didn't like it. From my experience, kids who are bullied usually will bully others too, to sort of make themselves feel better.

This, this, THIS.
THIS!!!!!!!!!!

Teenage boys are infuriatingly, almost DELIBERATELY morally hypocritical. They'll do anything without thinking for a second whether or not they've called someone else out for it. "You can dish it out but you can't take it" is, like, every teenage boy, ever. I can't speak for girls but it's probably more or less true for them too.

Lunkhead McGrath wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

I have a couple thoughts. As you know I do believe they were bullied and there was a bullying issue. I also am in the minority because I think the Adam Kyler thing was overblown.

It also doesn’t make sense to me if they were such big bullies how did they get away with so much and yet complain about the jocks getting away with so much?

However I think towards the end end of junior year and senior year they started pulling away from even the people that they were friends with. I think Eric had a hard time keeping friends because of his temper. I also think he glommed onto Dylan pretty hard. And Dylan wasn’t the type of person just to abandon someone.

Do I think they bulled people, yes. They probably were pretty big jerks. Sometimes you just don’t like someone and other times it’s retaliation for what you’re going through. I think with Dylan he was so tired of being nice and feeling so different that he was like well screw that, why do I have to be the nice one, why do I have to be the sweet one?

I also think they were teenagers and sometimes teenagers can be jerks. I believe both perceptions. I think it was Alex or Robyn  who said if they liked you they were the sweetest people but if they didn’t like you they were jerks

To answer your first question, I chalk it up to typical teenage behavior. I remember in high-school kids would join other kids in bullying people to fit in, but god forbid someone bullied the kids who were the bullies then all of a sudden it was an issue to them. It's one of those things where if you're on the short end of the stick, then you'd complain. I believe the same for E & D as they had no issues making fun of people, but the second it came back around to them, they didn't like it. From my experience, kids who are bullied usually will bully others too, to sort of make themselves feel better.

This, this, THIS.  
THIS!!!!!!!!!!

Teenage boys are infuriatingly, almost DELIBERATELY morally hypocritical.  They'll do anything without thinking for a second whether or not they've called someone else out for it. "You can dish it out but you can't take it" is, like, every teenage boy, ever.  I can't speak for girls but it's probably more or less true for them too.

Yurp, that is why I take most of the things they said with a grain of salt, Eric especially.
He contradicted himself more times than I can count!

I have to go back but in his journal I think he admits that, that he was a hypocrite.

I think they were both intelligent for their age and were probably interested in different things than their peers, but yea... they were teenage boys and you are right.

Screamingophelia wrote:

I have to go back but in his journal I think he admits that, that he was a hypocrite.

I think they were both intelligent for their age and were probably interested in different things than their peers, but yea... they were teenage boys and you are right.

They both were pretty bright kids that could of went on to work in the computer field and made bank when the whole .com boom happened.
Dylan went to look at dorms and seemed excited about college life. He could of been playing along to make everything seem normal, or he could of actually forgot about what was going to happen for a brief moment.
As we all know they were a mere 2 weeks away from never having to see the kids they hated again.
They were still doing fairly decent in school, completing projects and homework assignments up until the massacre, which is why people were so mind boggled at first.

Hindsight really is 20/20.

Here it is

Quote :

you know what, I feel like telling about lies. I lie a lot. almost constant. and to everybody, just to keep my own ass out of the water. and by the way (side note) I dont think I am doing this for attention, as some people may think. lets see, what are some big lies I have told; "yeah I stopped smoking," "for doing it not for getting caught," "no I'm havent been making more bombs," "no I wouldn't do that," and of course, countless of other ones, and yeah I know that I hate liers and I am one myself, oh fucking well. Its ok If I am a hypocrite, but no one else. because I am higher then you people,

The next entry interests me and I guess it is because I am older now but he mentions a girls name and it is censored but he and Dylan and a few other people slept over at her house and her mom bought them a lot of alcohol...

Quote :

eh heh heh. I sure had fun this weekend. lets see, what really happened. before going to the Rock n Bowl we stopped by King Soopers and one and [censored] picked up some big ass stoges. we then went to the Rock n Bowl and I had a few cigarettes and one of brand new cigars. we then went back to [censored] house where her mom had previousely bought us all a fuck load of liquor. personally I had asked for Tequilla and Irish cream, Vodka got his vodka, and there was beer, whiskey, schnopps, puckers, scotch and of course, orange juice! so we had some fun there playing cards and making drinks. we eventually made it to bed at about 5AM. got up at 10, went to safeway got some donouts and then I took Vodka home. the bottle of Tequilla is almost full and is in car, right by my spare tire and right by the bottle of irish cream. heh heh. I'll have to find a spot for those

That is SO lenient. I assume it was Robyn since I think that is the only mutual female friend Eric and Dylan had. I guess either I was a boring kid or my parents were really strict...

I did do aftershock before a college interview, I got in though. Not sure how.....

Screamingophelia wrote:

Here it is

Quote :

you know what, I feel like telling about lies. I lie a lot. almost constant. and to everybody, just to keep my own ass out of the water. and by the way (side note) I dont think I am doing this for attention, as some people may think. lets see, what are some big lies I have told; "yeah I stopped smoking," "for doing it not for getting caught," "no I'm havent been making more bombs," "no I wouldn't do that," and of course, countless of other ones, and yeah I know that I hate liers and I am one myself, oh fucking well. Its ok If I am a hypocrite, but no one else. because I am higher then you people,

The next entry interests me and I guess it is because I am older now but he mentions a girls name and it is censored but he and Dylan and a few other people slept over at her house and her mom bought them a lot of alcohol...

Quote :

eh heh heh. I sure had fun this weekend. lets see, what really happened. before going to the Rock n Bowl we stopped by King Soopers and one and [censored] picked up some big ass stoges. we then went to the Rock n Bowl and I had a few cigarettes and one of brand new cigars. we then went back to [censored] house where her mom had previousely bought us all a fuck load of liquor. personally I had asked for Tequilla and Irish cream, Vodka got his vodka, and there was beer, whiskey, schnopps, puckers, scotch and of course, orange juice! so we had some fun there playing cards and making drinks. we eventually made it to bed at about 5AM. got up at 10, went to safeway got some donouts and then I took Vodka home. the bottle of Tequilla is almost full and is in car, right by my spare tire and right by the bottle of irish cream. heh heh. I'll have to find a spot for those

That is SO lenient. I assume it was Robyn since I think that is the only mutual female friend Eric and Dylan had. I guess either I was a boring kid or my parents were really strict...

I did do aftershock before a college interview, I got in though. Not sure how.....

Ah, I remember the days of thinking you were a bad ass because you smoked cigarettes and drank underage.
There was always that one friend who had lenient parents where you could go to their place to drink and party.
What I'd do to be 15 again...

Eric was very self aware of what he was doing, if I'm not mistaken he even writes about being more self aware than most because he is on a higher "level" then everyone else or something along those lines.

slippy123 wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Here it is

Quote :

you know what, I feel like telling about lies. I lie a lot. almost constant. and to everybody, just to keep my own ass out of the water. and by the way (side note) I dont think I am doing this for attention, as some people may think. lets see, what are some big lies I have told; "yeah I stopped smoking," "for doing it not for getting caught," "no I'm havent been making more bombs," "no I wouldn't do that," and of course, countless of other ones, and yeah I know that I hate liers and I am one myself, oh fucking well. Its ok If I am a hypocrite, but no one else. because I am higher then you people,

The next entry interests me and I guess it is because I am older now but he mentions a girls name and it is censored but he and Dylan and a few other people slept over at her house and her mom bought them a lot of alcohol...

Quote :

eh heh heh. I sure had fun this weekend. lets see, what really happened. before going to the Rock n Bowl we stopped by King Soopers and one and [censored] picked up some big ass stoges. we then went to the Rock n Bowl and I had a few cigarettes and one of brand new cigars. we then went back to [censored] house where her mom had previousely bought us all a fuck load of liquor. personally I had asked for Tequilla and Irish cream, Vodka got his vodka, and there was beer, whiskey, schnopps, puckers, scotch and of course, orange juice! so we had some fun there playing cards and making drinks. we eventually made it to bed at about 5AM. got up at 10, went to safeway got some donouts and then I took Vodka home. the bottle of Tequilla is almost full and is in car, right by my spare tire and right by the bottle of irish cream. heh heh. I'll have to find a spot for those

That is SO lenient. I assume it was Robyn since I think that is the only mutual female friend Eric and Dylan had. I guess either I was a boring kid or my parents were really strict...

I did do aftershock before a college interview, I got in though. Not sure how.....

Ah, I remember the days of thinking you were a bad ass because you smoked cigarettes and drank underage.
There was always that one friend who had lenient parents where you could go to their place to drink and party.
What I'd do to be 15 again...

Eric was very self aware of what he was doing, if I'm not mistaken he even writes about being more self aware than most because he is on a higher "level" then everyone else or something along those lines.

He did. I would love to know how that lined up with Dylan's posts about his self awareness. It seems like when one of them mentioned something the other fell in line pretty quickly.

I had wine on Christmas and my aunt would give me glasses of the really good stuff when I was 17. OH!! I got served wine at a bistro in New York on a class trip when I was 16. I was bad ass huh..... unpopular yes but I could drink a Cabernet like a boss..

Screamingophelia wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Here it is

Quote :

you know what, I feel like telling about lies. I lie a lot. almost constant. and to everybody, just to keep my own ass out of the water. and by the way (side note) I dont think I am doing this for attention, as some people may think. lets see, what are some big lies I have told; "yeah I stopped smoking," "for doing it not for getting caught," "no I'm havent been making more bombs," "no I wouldn't do that," and of course, countless of other ones, and yeah I know that I hate liers and I am one myself, oh fucking well. Its ok If I am a hypocrite, but no one else. because I am higher then you people,

The next entry interests me and I guess it is because I am older now but he mentions a girls name and it is censored but he and Dylan and a few other people slept over at her house and her mom bought them a lot of alcohol...

Quote :

eh heh heh. I sure had fun this weekend. lets see, what really happened. before going to the Rock n Bowl we stopped by King Soopers and one and [censored] picked up some big ass stoges. we then went to the Rock n Bowl and I had a few cigarettes and one of brand new cigars. we then went back to [censored] house where her mom had previousely bought us all a fuck load of liquor. personally I had asked for Tequilla and Irish cream, Vodka got his vodka, and there was beer, whiskey, schnopps, puckers, scotch and of course, orange juice! so we had some fun there playing cards and making drinks. we eventually made it to bed at about 5AM. got up at 10, went to safeway got some donouts and then I took Vodka home. the bottle of Tequilla is almost full and is in car, right by my spare tire and right by the bottle of irish cream. heh heh. I'll have to find a spot for those

That is SO lenient. I assume it was Robyn since I think that is the only mutual female friend Eric and Dylan had. I guess either I was a boring kid or my parents were really strict...

I did do aftershock before a college interview, I got in though. Not sure how.....

Ah, I remember the days of thinking you were a bad ass because you smoked cigarettes and drank underage.
There was always that one friend who had lenient parents where you could go to their place to drink and party.
What I'd do to be 15 again...

Eric was very self aware of what he was doing, if I'm not mistaken he even writes about being more self aware than most because he is on a higher "level" then everyone else or something along those lines.

He did. I would love to know how that lined up with Dylan's posts about his self awareness. It seems like when one of them mentioned something the other fell in line pretty quickly.

I had wine on Christmas and my aunt would give me glasses of the really good stuff when I was 17. OH!! I got served wine at a bistro in New York on a class trip when I was 16. I was bad ass huh..... unpopular yes but I could drink a Cabernet like a boss..

My parents were the lenient ones... well maybe not so much lenient as much as they ignored what we did.

My mom let me have alcohol out in the open. Kids would come to my house for the party lol

I wouldn’t be adverse to letting my 16 year old have a little wine with dinner or  sip of something on a holiday but I think I’d be too nervous about

The coed sleepovers they had were a bit much, my parents wouldn’t be down. My male friend (who was gay)  cooked me dinner when I was a freshman (in college)  and he was a senior in college and my father was freaking out.

I don’t think e or d had girls over like that. I think their  parents were a little stricter.

Screamingophelia wrote:

The coed sleepovers they had were a bit much, my parents wouldn’t be down. My male friend (who was gay)  cooked me dinner when I was a freshman (in college)  and he was a senior in college and my father was freaking out.

Well he was your Dad, its his job to freak out! Also the guy still had a penis, so in your dad's eye he was still a threat!

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

The coed sleepovers they had were a bit much, my parents wouldn’t be down. My male friend (who was gay)  cooked me dinner when I was a freshman (in college)  and he was a senior in college and my father was freaking out.

Well he was your Dad, its his job to freak out! Also the guy still had a penis, so in your dad's eye he was still a threat!

Very true! He was also 22 and I just turned 18... so that was Too old to be hanging out with

Screamingophelia wrote:

. My male friend (who was gay)  cooked me dinner when I was a freshman (in college)  and he was a senior in college and my father was freaking out.

Off topic but something similar happened to a friend of mine. Her dad was really upset that she was going on a long car trip with a male friend and she couldn't understand why because the guy was gay. Her dad said something like, "until you see him in bed with a man, don't believe that he's gay!"

" I think Eric had a hard time keeping friends because of his temper." well he's an aries & this is considered as a natural response basically normal. Since armchair psychologist dave cullen considers him as a psychopath are all ppl under the zodiac sign Aries psychopaths?

Rebbie556 wrote:

" I think Eric had a hard time keeping friends because of his temper." well he's an aries & this is considered as a natural response basically normal. Since armchair psychologist dave cullen considers him as a psychopath  are all ppl under the zodiac sign  Aries psychopaths?

His temper very well could of held him back from making friends, but you can't categorize psychopaths by their zodiac sign.
I'm sure every zodiac sign has an equal amount of psychos and bad people, but then again I'm no horoscope expert

Goes to show why we shouldnt just take information at face value. Christopher Hitchens wrote a similar article on Utøya and how the media wrongly tacled what happened there. It's well worth a read.

A phrase thats been attributed to Hitchens says: 'That which cannot be ascertained with evidence, can be dismissed without evidence'. Im not so sure wether he was right about everything that he said, but he has a point there. Opinions based on facts and evidence.

Ive plunged through several withness accounts yesterday and found that close friends did talk about teasing or bullying(more or less directed towards Eric). It was as all that stuff about the type of music that he listened to and so on. Mostly by the jocks.

Only examples of Extreme bullying that I can come up with is

1: The ketchup incident. This was told by Susan Klebold and Chad Laughner.

2: Glass thrown at them that landed near their feet. This incident was told by Brooks Brown in hes own book if I remember correctly.

3: Pushed into a locker. From Peter Langmann where he Côtes a report on bullying.

Much of the other stuff Ive read was a list by Peter Langmann of all the other incidents, but it doesnt give much of an in depth- information. It suggests that they were both picked on and picked on others in returen.

As for this whole 'goth/loner/outcast'- thing, none of that makes any sense. Im not sure where that even came from. I can't phantom how the media pushed that story and choze to believe in that stuff. It seems very familiar to how the media tacled the church burnings in Norway. It's this whole idea that when something seems to good to be true, it usually is.

Norwegian wrote:

As for this whole 'goth/loner/outcast'- thing, none of that makes any sense. Im not sure where that even came from. I can't phantom how the media pushed that story and choze to believe in that stuff. It seems very familiar to how the media tacled the church burnings in Norway. It's this whole idea that when something seems to good to be true, it usually is.

I think people were quick to assume that all kids who aren't popular, listen to darker music, and dress different are losers.
At the end of the day the media is in the business of selling a good story, and the whole "trench coat wearing goths" shot up a school thing was a real attention grabber back then.

slippy123 wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

As for this whole 'goth/loner/outcast'- thing, none of that makes any sense. Im not sure where that even came from. I can't phantom how the media pushed that story and choze to believe in that stuff. It seems very familiar to how the media tacled the church burnings in Norway. It's this whole idea that when something seems to good to be true, it usually is.

I think people were quick to assume that all kids who aren't popular, listen to darker music, and dress different are losers.
At the end of the day the media is in the business of selling a good story, and the whole "trench coat wearing goths" shot up a school thing was a real attention grabber back then.

'99 was really at the end of the "Satanic Panic", but the TCM goth thing fit that narrative very well.

If you want some real misinformation, check out the National Enquirer article that gets posted every year around April. I don't think I can link it because it has the suicide pictures, but it's a simple search away. I guess E&D were members of some underground KKK group and that's how they found their guns and attack plans. Oh, and their "experts" determined that Eric shot Dylan. Everything is cited with anonymous sources AKA fake news. At least there is some sanity in the comments.

NeedaHaircut wrote:

If you want some real misinformation, check out the National Enquirer article that gets posted every year around April. I don't think I can link it because it has the suicide pictures, but it's a simple search away. I guess E&D were members of some underground KKK group and that's how they found their guns and attack plans. Oh, and their "experts" determined that Eric shot Dylan. Everything is cited with anonymous sources AKA fake news. At least there is some sanity in the comments.

The National Enquirer also said they had a "gay secret that made them kill." However, it is a tabloid. So what do we really expect from it?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Yeah, I forgot about the gay secret thing. It must have grown some legs though as I've seen it come up more than it should regarding this incident.

I find it quite strange that they try to say that since Dylan was shot in the left temple, and his guns were on his right side, Eric killed him. Also, they said that because Dylan's right elbow was on Eric's right knee, that was evidence enough that Eric killed Dylan.

rocdk wrote:

I find it quite strange that they try to say that since Dylan was shot in the left temple, and his guns were on his right side, Eric killed him. Also, they said that because Dylan's right elbow was on Eric's right knee, that was evidence enough that Eric killed Dylan.

I don't understand how those type of tabloids make money. I've never met anyone who took anything the Enquirer wrote about seriously.
I know they pay people to get exclusive photos of crime scenes and things of that nature, but 90% of their articles are filled with wild claims and misinformation.
I guess the fact that magazines like that are still in print is proof that there are a lot of very stupid people in this world

I dont think they were the most unpopular people. IDK why Brooks and other people even says that, because its contradicted by other sources. Sure, there were people that though of them as weird, there were people that hated them( sometimes this seems to have come their interactions with the two boys), sure they were bullied. But the bottom of the food Chain? Thats not the image that I get. And IDK where this is coming from, because Dylan seens like he was very well liked by people around him. I think the same is true for Eric. Even though Eric and Dylan had a reputation for bullying other students
But as a whole I dont see them as the two most unpopular kids.

NeedaHaircut wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Yeah, I forgot about the gay secret thing. It must have grown some legs though as I've seen it come up more than it should regarding this incident.

It came up right after the massacre. One of the first articles that Dave Cullen ever wrote about Columbine addressed the issue.

[quote="hvernon"]

slippy123 wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

As for this whole 'goth/loner/outcast'- thing, none of that makes any sense. Im not sure where that even came from. I can't phantom how the media pushed that story and choze to believe in that stuff. It seems very familiar to how the media tacled the church burnings in Norway. It's this whole idea that when something seems to good to be true, it usually is.[/quote.

True. Goths tend to have all kinds of religious and political views. Most of them are pretty much harmless. The goths and metalheads Ive met are usually nice . My own personal experience is that the worst problem you can run into are elitists and gatekeepers, but other than that most people seems rather chill.

Satanism seems more or less like a personal philosophy for most satanists.

I think people were quick to assume that all kids who aren't popular, listen to darker music, and dress different are losers.
At the end of the day the media is in the business of selling a good story, and the whole "trench coat wearing goths" shot up a school thing was a real attention grabber back then.

'99 was really at the end of the "Satanic Panic", but the TCM goth thing fit that narrative very well.