Fact Check Cullen's book

*added Columbine by Cullen pdf & audiobook

Enjoy!

sororityalpha wrote:

*added Columbine by Cullen pdf & audiobook

Enjoy!

Thanks!

np anytime

STK wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] you're doing gods work son. bless you.

Chapter 16-
Cullen writes of Mr. DeAngelis' actions when the shooting started, and of Pat Ireland's parents and Dwayne Fuselier and his wife waiting for word on their kids.

He also writes about Ireland's injuries and his rescue. While fact checking what he wrote of Ireland, I found something interesting:
From Cullen's book-  "paramedics cut off patrick’s bloody clothes- everything but his undershorts.” “He was not wearing shoes.”
On pg. 35 of the 11 K- “They cut off all of his clothes except his undershorts.” “He was not wearing shoes.”
Had he changed "undershorts" to something else I probably wouldn't have noticed it, but that's not a term I hear much so it stuck out.
It's not exactly plagiarism, I guess, but he sure didn't change much. I'm guessing if I took the time to compare other witness statements to what he wrote about them, I'd probably find a ton of this.

The rest of the chapter details Ireland's surgeries, how his parent's felt, and SWAT's evacuation of the rest of the school.

Chapter 17-
Discusses what SWAT found in the library and the rescue of Lisa Kreutz (which is a few pitiful sentences). Cullen wrote that Paramedic Troy Laman went into the library with SWAT and it was his job to figure out who was alive and who was not. He did this by looking at their faces and if he couldn't see a face, he touched them.
"Twelve were cold. One was not. Laman touched a girl, felt the warmth, and rolled her over to get a look at her face. Her eyes were open, tears trickling out. Lisa Kreutz was carried down the stairs and rushed to Denver Health Medical Center."

Lisa Kreutz reports things differently, pg. 64- 65 Upon hearing SWAT near the library, "She heard them come in and she called for help. One of the SWAT officers came over to her. This officer told her she was the only one alive in the Library. They did not take her immediately out of the Library and one SWAT officer stayed with her. The next thing she remembers is a paramedic coming in and talking to her about whether she was hurt. The paramedic rolled her onto her shoulder to look at her back and she remembers excruciating pain"

Cullen writes about Kate Battan figuring out the Dylan and Eric were in the system for the van break in and finding the complaint from the Brown's about Eric's death threats to Brooks and how she used this to get search warrants for the Harris and Klebold homes. He also wrote about Sheriff Stone's misinformation-filled press conference. The chapter also talks about the Sanders' family waiting for word.

He writes that police interviewed Robyn's best friend Kelli, and that the night of the attack Robyn asked if Kelli remembered the favor that she (Robyn) had done for Eric and Dylan in November. "Kelli remembered. It had been a big secret. Robyn had told Kelli repeatedly about this big favor she had done for the guys, but she would never divulge what it was."
This is a gross exaggeration.
Kelli actually told police (pg. 677 and 679) "Kelli Brown stated that at this time, Robyn Anderson reminded her that back in December or January, she told Kelli that she had done a favor for Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, but at that time could not say what it was.”
Cullen makes it sound like Robyn brought it up over and over, like she was bragging about it, when in truth they had a single discussion about it.

Chapter 18-
Discusses the parents of the murder victims waiting for word. I don't know how accurately the different people mentioned (the Tomlin's, Misty Bernall, Dan Rohrbough's parents) were portrayed but nothing struck me as ridiculously off.

Chapter 19-
Details the Sander’s and Bernall families waiting for word and the strange things people think of when overwhelmed by tragedy.

Chapter 20-
Details how the Rohrbough’s, Curnow’s and Bernall’s learned of their kids; how everyone was coping and DeAngelis’ speech at Light of the World church the day after.
There is then some pretty shameless ass-kissing of Dwayne Fuselier and Kate Battan (“a brilliant detective”) and the exhaustive, thorough investigation they put together.

Chapter 21-
Details of Eric’s childhood are very superficial and most of what Cullen gleans from Eric’s behavior comes from the stories he wrote for his classes.
Cullen claims Eric was “exhibiting telltale signs of a particular breed of killer” even before adolescence.
Apparently Eric’s fascination with fireworks and playing soldier as a boy held some sinister meaning, despite the fact that he was engaged in these activities with several other children. None of whom, I presume, tried to blow up their high schools.
Cullen gives no explanation as to what "breed" Eric was nor how his play as a child was influenced by it.

Chapter 22-
Discusses some of the memorials, the way the churches handled the attack, and the errant rumor that Daniel Rohrbough died while holding the door open for others to escape. Discussed the investigation into who provided the weapons, Robyn’s confession, and the discovery of the bombs and the intended scope of the attack.

Back on the horse...

Chapter 23-
Summarizes Dylan's childhood.
He calls Judy Brown "the neighborhood mom". I've always gotten the feeling that Judy was not well liked so while I don't have proof this is wrong, it doesn't seem right.

He writes that Sue Klebold is Jewish. Technically, her mother was NOT Jewish and her father was. From what I understand about Judaism, if your mother is not Jewish than neither are you UNLESS you actively convert to Judaism. Less technically, Sue may be considered 1/2 Jewish and appears to participate in some Jewish practices but she, Tom, and the kids also went to a Lutheran church.

Chapter 24-  
He writes of Dylan's funeral service and how the attendees discussed what happened and the questions they had.
Again he writes that Sue is Jewish. "Dylan was half Jewish". Since only Sue's Dad was Jewish, she's either not truly Jewish (if we're being technical) or she's half Jewish. This makes Dylan either not Jewish or 1/4 Jewish.

Chapter 25
He writes that Dylan, Brooks, and Eric went to the football games as freshman. "Eric was practically a celebrity because his brother was a starter on the varsity team."
Of course, this is a stand alone sentence- he offers no examples of Eric's "celebrity".

He mentions the incident with Tiffany Typher when Eric faked his suicide.
Cullen says "But it wierded her out. She refused to date him again."
Below is a news article written THREE DAYS after the murders which CLEARLY states that Typher had ALREADY BROKEN UP with Eric and that she thought, "He was doing that so maybe I'd come back to him and say I'm sorry."
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Cullen mentions Eric's "I Am" poem written for a class in 1995. I am posting the poem here and Cullen's comments. I feel that he is really trying to influence the perception of reader, knowing that most people will probably never read the poem and therefore will assume his interpretation of it illustrates the full story.
IMO, the poem is not nearly as narcissistic as he tries to make out.

I AM
I am a nice guy who hates when people open their pop cans just a little
I wonder what my soccer team will be like in the Spring
I hear myself turning on the ignition of an F-15
I see myself flying above everyone else
I want to fly
I am a nice guy who hates when people open their pop cans just a little

I pretend I am walking on the moon
I feel that I will get straight A's again
I touch the sky
I worry that I will have a fire in my house
I cry when I see or hear a dog die
I am a nice guy who hates when people open their pop cans just a little

I understand how to play soccer
I say that a sport is something that you have to break a sweat in
I dream that I am the only person on Earth
I try to be as nice as I can
I hope there isn't another OJ trial
I am a nice guy who hates when people open their pop cans just a little.

Cullen's interpretation of Eric's poem-
"His selfportrait informed the reader five times in eighteen lines how nice he was." He writes that he ended each stanza with the pop can line.
"He described himself flying above all the rest of us, bragged about his straight A's, and demonstrated his emotional depth:'I cry when I see or hear a a dog die.'"
He fails to mention Eric wrote about flying above us because he wanted to pilot an F-15. Cullen's implication is clearly that Eric is saying he's better than "us". And apparently knowing you will get good grades is considered bragging.

Cullen also writes:
"He kept much of the work he produced in high school. Apparently, he was proud of it. 'I dream I am the last person on Earth,' he wrote in 'I AM'." Eric was always a dreamer, but he liked them ugly:bleak and morose, yet boring as hell. He saw beauty in the void. Eric dreamed of a world where nothing ever happened. A world where the rest of us had been removed."

Guess it's not ok to be proud of the things you do. I must be a psychopathic narcissist because I still have stuff I did in college. And I didn't throw out my high school stuff until I moved out of my mom's house.

Cullen then goes on to trash Eric's other stories, saying they were bleak and gloomy, and nothing ever happened. He writes that Eric liked it best when nothing happened and nobody's ever around. I'm sure you've all read Eric's writings- this is a gross exaggeration of them.

He writes of Eric and Dylan making friends with Zach. "They cruised the mall to pick up chicks. Eric did the talking. Zack and Dylan hung back and followed his lead."
Eric the ladies' man again. How come of the 3, Zack was the only non-virgin?

He writes that Zack and Dylan grew close. "They were snarky, clever, and seething with teenage anger, but way too timid to show it. Dylan and Zach needed Eric. Someone had to do the talking. Eric needed an audience; he also craved excitement. He was cool and detached, tough to rattle. Nothing seemed to faze him."
Untrue. There are tons of examples of both Dylan and Zach getting into plenty of trouble without any association with Eric at all. Stealing locker combos was Zach's idea and he left the threatening note in Devon's ex-BF's locker, Dylan scratched up a kid's locker all by himself. Zach was a super angry kid and acted out in school a lot, just like Dylan. Several people say this in the 11k. Eric wasn't openly disrespectful to the teachers. And Dylan and Zach were tight- Eric was the third wheel in that relationship; there is no way that he called the shots.
Also, how can he write in one paragraph that Eric preferred it when "nothing happened" but then in the next paragraph say that he "craved excitement." Those things seem mutually exclusive.

Cullen again cites one of Eric's school assignments, this time the one comparing himself to the god, Zeus.
Cullen writes, "He hailed both of them as great leaders, finding no fault in their pettiness or malice by identifying common inclinations. 'Zeus and I also get angry easily and punish people in unusual ways," he wrote."
Again, I think he picks out a fragment of Eric's writing because he knows most people are not going to track down and read the thing themselves.
So he conveniently leaves out that Eric also said that he and Zeus "try to solve things in a mature, non-violent manner", that he is "always asking questions or double checking myself to be sure I completely understand something so I am in control" like Zeus, and "we are both kind to other animals or people."

His whole set up is so obvious. Get people to think Eric is super-confident, full of himself, thinks he's better than everyone. Get people to think Eric craves excitement and is cruel to people. Get people to think Eric is purposely writing about his "emotional depth" as a cover for not actually having emotional depth.
He's digging through a 9th/10 graders creative writing assignments and making up the interpersonal dynamic between Dylan, Zach, and Eric in order to sell the reader on all of the psychopath traits for when he presents them later in the book.

I haven't read the book but from what you have posted it seems Cullen's book is shaped by his confirmation bias. He formed a theory about Dylan and Eric, then looked for the evidence that it was so.

That is something we've talked about about before- Zach's anger, he was in trouble a lot and had a lot of anger too. I think his senior quote was "I hate this school" Even when he had a girlfriend Zach was acting out... I doubt Cullen talked to Zach, I think most of the things he said after were pretty nasty towards eric and dylan... which I mean you can't really blame them. At that time the only 2 people who really admitted friendship with them were Nate and Devon. Zach had some sort of line that he would never cross, he had maybe "normal" teenage anger and Eric and Dylan had something else..

I always looked at Zach as more of Dylans friend and Chris, the other super angry one was closer to Eric. Chris calmed down a lot. I actually don't remember reading his 11k interview... I wouldn't mind revisiting it. Chris and Zach acted out far more than eric and dylan did.

I imagine when they started planning it, they probably realized if they didn't keep on the straight and narrow they may be caught. So I think most of the real planning probably started after the van break in.

Pixie13 wrote:

I haven't read the book but from what you have posted it seems Cullen's book is shaped by his confirmation bias. He formed a theory about Dylan and Eric, then looked for the evidence that it was so.

Bingo! Agree with this 100%.

Also, I neglected to mention for Chapter 25 when he talks of Zach being "timid". In her book, Sue Klebold writes that Zach was "friendly and outgoing" and that she was happy about Dylan and Zach's friendship "because of how gregarious and outgoing Zach was. He didn't mind being the center of attention, which drew Dylan out a little."
I think Sue would know a bit more about Zach's personality and his interactions with E & D than Cullen would.


Chapter 26-
Most of this chapter deals with Dave Sanders death and the poor police response. All of it accurate from what I can tell.

Chapter 27-
"Most of the girls who knew Eric described him as cute. he was aware of the consensus but didn't quite accept it."
I will try to find the 11k page number for it, but Cullen based this statement on Eric's response to one of those questionaires where under 'Looks' he wrote "skinny but handsome, some say."
Apparently in Cullen's mind this translates to "most" girls finding Eric cute. I've read all reports by everybody who knew Eric, male and female, "cute" was not a descriptor I found.

He also talked about how Eric had begun to change his look in his sophomore year. "older kids and bigger guys razzed him sometimes, but nothing exceptional. And he was talking back now and provoking confrontations. He'd shaken off his silence along with the preppy uniform."
This isn't true either. There were lots of kids who made fun of his clothing; I think Cale Kennedy did it almost daily, among others. And people who knew or had run-ins with Eric don't report Eric becoming very confrontational until the last year of his life- probably the time during which they had begun planning for NBK.

Cullen writes,
"Dylan remained quiet right up until the end. He wasn't much for mouthing off, except in rare sudden bursts that freaked everyone out a little."
Not true. He and Zach frequently mouthed off and were disruptive in French class and even got kicked out for a while because of it (pg. 5036, pg. 7214).
Note- Eric didn't take French, yet Dylan and Zach were causing trouble in his absence. But Dave? I thought Eric was the ringleader for the two quiet sadsacks?

He also wrote that Dylan "followed Eric's fashion lead but a less intense version so he took a lot less ribbing."
Apparently Dave is unaware that Dylan wore his trench coat much more frequently than Eric. Standing 6'3" is going to make him stick out, standing 6'3" and wearing a full length trench coat is definitely going to attract attention.
Also, I think we've already established that it was Eric who had copied Dylan's look initially, not the other way around.

Cullen writes,
"Eric and Dylan had very active social calenders, and far more friends than the average adolescent."
Um, no. They did do things and go places with a small core group of friends, but far more friends than average? No. More importantly, neither of them felt like they had friends- Eric really only felt close to Dylan and Dylan only felt close to Eric, Zach, and Nate. This is another example of Cullen's confirmation bias. If one of them writes something that supports the point he wants to make, he waves it around like a flag. But if something in their writing refutes his point, he totally ignores it, and since most people haven't read the 11k or their journals, Cullen's failure to mention it implies to the average reader that no such statements exist.

Now get this, Cullen, writing about Eric Dutro, says:
"He had a hard time at school. Kids at Columbine picked on him. Kids would ridicule him relentlessly, calling him a freak and a faggot. Eventually he fought back the only way he knew how: by upping the ante. If they were gong to call him a freak, he was going to give them one hell of a freak show. The trench coat made a nice little addition to his freakdrobe."
Sooooo, let me get this straight. Cullen admits that Eric Dutro, a member of the TCM, was bullied relentlessly and called freak and faggot. Yet when it's claimed that E & D were subjected to the same thing, Cullen is sure that never really happened? Dutro was only an acquaintance of E & D but they ran in the same circle of friends, were into the same kinds of things, dressed similarly. And we're to accept that Dutro was bullied and E + D were not?

Cute/adorable ? Eric would probably hate that word he would be like: "I'm not cute /adorable I'm not a freaking stuffed animal!"

Chapter 28-
Chapter 28-
Summarizes how the media blew things out of proportion with regard to the TCM. Cullen makes the claim that after listening to the media, the majority of the students became brainwashed into thinking the TCM was responsible. His claim is that instead of the media getting TCM info from students, the students were getting TCM info from the media.

This is inaccurate. A lot of the police statements were taken weeks, even months after the attack. Despite Cullen’s claim, there are very few students who thought the TCM, as a group, was involved. A lot of kids weren’t even aware the TCM existed at Columbine, let alone believed that they staged the shooting. Of those who were familiar with the group, most couldn’t say who was in it but they didn’t feel like they had anything to do with the massacre. The TCM is mentioned in a large number of interviews only because the police brought them up as one of their standard questions; it’s not like all these kids were just randomly talking about the group.

He goes on to say that within 2 days of the attack, everyone’s shock had turned to anger and because they were angry they started making up things about Eric and Dylan and the TCM like that they were outcasts and “fags”. But according to Cullen, this wasn’t true.
So, despite the fact that tons of witnesses who ACTUALLY knew E & D say they were called fags and treated as outcasts, and despite the fact that members of the TCM CONFIRM that this ACTUALLY HAPPENED to them personally, we are supposed to believe Cullen that these rumors started only AFTER the massacre and that this stuff didn’t really happen.

Cullen says that the reason Mr. DeAngelis never saw any bullying was because the students loved him so much that they were on their best behavior around him.
Excuse me, let me finish gagging. Ok, I’m done. I think he’s forgotten that DeAngelis was the PRINCIPAL and in high school, everybody knows you have to be on your best behavior when the PRINCIPAL is around, whether you like the guy or not. For God’s sake, the principal is supposed to be the ultimate disciplinarian in a school, who in their right mind is going to shove a kid into a locker when he’s standing right behind you?!

Cullen goes on to say that the bullying “myth” about Columbine took off because of the media accounts. Then he discusses that with regard to the culture at Columbine “a tremendous amount of data was gathered in those first few days, while students were naïve, before any developed an agenda.” “the data is there.”
His implication is that it was found that bullying was not a real issue at Columbine. Not surprisingly, he doesn’t supply any of that “data” for the reader that supports his claim.

thelmar wrote:

Chapter 28-
Chapter 28-
Summarizes how the media blew things out of proportion with regard to the TCM. Cullen makes the claim that after listening to the media, the majority of the students became brainwashed into thinking the TCM was responsible. His claim is that instead of the media getting TCM info from students, the students were getting TCM info from the media.

This is inaccurate.  A lot of the police statements were taken weeks, even months after the attack. Despite Cullen’s claim, there are very few students who thought the TCM, as a group, was involved. A lot of kids weren’t even aware the TCM existed at Columbine, let alone believed that they staged the shooting. Of those who were familiar with the group, most couldn’t say who was in it but they didn’t feel like they had anything to do with the massacre. The TCM is mentioned in a large number of interviews only because the police brought them up as one of their standard questions; it’s not like all these kids were just randomly talking about the group.

He goes on to say that within 2 days of the attack, everyone’s shock had turned to anger and because they were angry they started making up things about Eric and Dylan and the TCM like that they were outcasts and “fags”. But according to Cullen, this wasn’t true.
So, despite the fact that tons of witnesses who ACTUALLY knew E & D say they were called fags and treated as outcasts, and despite the fact that members of the TCM CONFIRM that this ACTUALLY HAPPENED to them personally, we are supposed to believe Cullen that these rumors started only AFTER the massacre and that this stuff didn’t really happen.

Cullen says that the reason Mr. DeAngelis never saw any bullying was because the students loved him so much that they were on their best behavior around him.
Excuse me, let me finish gagging. Ok, I’m done. I think he’s forgotten that DeAngelis was the PRINCIPAL and in high school, everybody knows you have to be on your best behavior when the PRINCIPAL is around, whether you like the guy or not. For God’s sake, the principal is supposed to be the ultimate disciplinarian in a school, who in their right mind is going to shove a kid into a locker when he’s standing right behind you?!

Cullen goes on to say that the bullying “myth” about Columbine took off because of the media accounts. Then he discusses that with regard to the culture at Columbine “a tremendous amount of data was gathered in those first few days, while students were naïve, before any developed an agenda.” “the data is there.”
His implication is that it was found that bullying was not a real issue at Columbine. Not surprisingly, he doesn’t supply any of that “data” for the reader that supports his claim.

You're doing an amazing job with that. Thanks

AmeliaDK. wrote:

You're doing an amazing job with that.  

Thanks!

Chapter 29-
In this chapter, he discusses the Rebel Clan missions. The entire chapter is predicated on showing that Eric’s psychopathy is building, that he’s starting to take action on all of his violent urges. “His extinction fantasies progressed steadily, but reality held firm and was completely separate from his fantasy life. Then one day, midway through sophomore year, Eric began to take action.” “They would meet at Eric’s house mostly, sneak out after midnight, and vandalize houses of kids he didn’t like. Eric chose the targets, of course.”
It must have been a great conversation Cullen had with Eric, Dylan, and Zach to know that the missions were all Eric’s idea and the boys targeted the people Eric wanted to target.
How can he, in good conscious, make statements like this? He has no idea who thought up the missions and the only one we know for sure that Eric personally targeted was Brooks. Dylan made fun of Nick Baumgart, too, according to Brooks. And Eric mentions that they got revenge on kids who shot Dylan’s bike. As for the rest, we don’t know who was on the receiving end of the Rebel Clan missions, so how in the hell can Dave know they were only people Eric didn't like. We all know Dylan and Zach were pretty vindictive people, I'm sure they singled out a few kids they wanted revenge on.

Next is an example of how grossly Cullen distorts Eric's school assignment writings to paint him as a nutcase. Please bear with me- I think you'll agree just how utterly ridiculous this is.
Cullen writes,
"he had just gobbled up John Steinbeck's The Pastures of Heaven, which includes a fable about the idiot savant Tularecito. The young boy had extraordinary gifts that allowed him to see a world his peers couldn't even imagine- exactly how Eric was coming to view himself, though without Tularecito's mental shortcomings. Tularecito's peers failed to see his gifts and treated him badly. Tularecito struck back violently, killing one of his antagonists. He was imprisoned for life in an insane asylum. Eric did not approve. 'Tularecito did not deserve to be put away,' he wrote in a book report. 'He just needed to be taught to control his anger. Society needs to treat extremely talented people like Tularecito much better.' All they needed was more time, Eric argued- gifted misfits could be taught what was right and wrong, what was acceptable to society. 'Love and care is the only way,' he said.
Love and care. Eric wrote this at the very moment he started moving against his peers. Sometimes he attacked their houses to retaliate for perceived slights, but most often it was for the offense of inferiority. "
 
Here is the actual story of Tularecito. It's only 12 pages, I encourage you to read it so that you can see how Cullen twisted the essence of the story to fit his agenda.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
A quick summary-
Tularecito was found in the brush as a baby and was taken in by members of the village. His name means Little Frog, because of how grotesquely deformed his body was. He was severely mentally challenged but had a talent for drawing, sculpting animals. If people accidentally broke one of his sculptures he flew into a rage and attacked them. He grew very strong very young and was doing man's work at the age of 5, but he was incapable of learning. Nevertheless, at the age of 11 he was forced into school by village officials.
The teacher recognized that he could draw so she let him decorate the blackboard after school. The following day, they tried to erase the board for lessons. Tularecito didn't understand and became violent, fighting the entire class and winning. The teacher was afraid of him and eventually quit. A new teacher gave him a pad to draw on and he did this instead of listening to lessons. One day, the teacher was talking about fairy tales and gnomes. Tularecito became convinced that the gnomes were his people and that if he dug into the ground, he could be reunited with them. The teacher thought this was harmless and encouraged his belief. He began digging deep holes and tunnels  at night, callling for his people, calling for his father. A local man, not knowing who dug the tunnels or why, filled them in. Initially Tularecito thought the gnomes had done it. So he dug more tunnels and stayed around the next morning hoping to see them come out of the holes. But the next day, the man came by again and began to push the dirt back in. Tularecito became enraged and attacked him. He hurt him badly but did not kill him, and the villagers put him in an asylum.

First of all, it was not a book report. It was literally a single paragraph written in answer to the question "Do you think Tularecito deserved to be put into the insane asylum?" This is a common discussion question for students about this particular story.
Second, the villagers did not fail to recognize Tularecito's gifts nor did they treat him badly. In fact, the teachers both recognized his talent and encouraged it, the first teacher just regretted it.
Third, Tularecito did not strike back at people for treating him badly or not for recognizing his talent. He was a mentally handicapped individual incapable of understanding how people could accidentally drop one of his statues or that they would need the blackboard for school lessons.
Fourth, he did not kill the man and the man was not one of his antagonists. Tularecito thought that the man was filling up the holes from which his family, the gnomes, were going to welcome him back home.

Who, but us, would take the time to actually read the story and realize that it has ABSOLUTELY NO BEARING ON ERIC HARRIS' PERSONALITY!

There's more to this chapter, I'll continue after dinner...

Edited to add: the rest of the chapter talks about the snowball incident with Brooks Brown. Most of it seems factual but Cullen makes statements from the point of view of Wayne Harris that he couldn't possibly know.

Chapter 30-
Discusses Jeffco using the info the Brown's had brought to them the previous year in order to get the search warrant for the Harris house, then denying that they had known Eric was potentially violent. Also discusses the issues the Brown's had with Jeffco accusing Brooks of being a co-conspirator.
He discusses Jeffco tracking down the link between E& D and Mark Manes and Phil Duran; not very detailed but everything accurate.
It also talks about Fuselier trying to figure out why they did it.

Chapter 31-
This chapter discusses Dylan and his journals.
Cullen writes that Dylan "was a profoundly religious young man. His family was not active in any congregation, yet Dylan's belief was unwavering."
Dylan did write about things like good and evil, cleansing, an afterlife, etc. but to take from that that he was profoundly religious is a huge overreach. Read Rachel Scott's journals- THAT is profoundly religious.

Cullen writes, "Dylan's anger would flare, then fizzle quickly into self-disgust, Dylan wasn't planning to kill anyone, except, God willing, himself." Cullen intimates that it was his profound faith that prevented Dylan from killing himself. "But suicide posed a problem. Dylan believed in a literal heaven and hell. He would be a believer right up until the end. When he murdered several people he knew there would be consequences."
Soooo, he couldn't kill himself because it was a sin but he got around that by murdering people and then killing himself? Huh?
I especially like how he doesn't tell Mr. Average Reader, who probably hasn't read Dylan's journals, just how many times Dylan mentioned killing someone or going on a killing spree. Yet, when he writes about Eric's journals, you'd think that was the only thing in them!

Cullen writes that Fuselier believed Eric started his journal knowing NBK was endgame. Eric's journal was "not about self-discovery but self-lionization. Dylan was just trying to grapple with existence."
To me, this indicates that Fuselier recognized that Eric was writing for an audience. My question is, if he recognized that, wouldn't he then know that maybe this isn't exactly the window into Eric's soul that he needed to find all the answers? It's kind of like- yeah, I know that he's writing this to make himself look a certain way but I'm going to take most of it at face value anyway because all this angry stuff helps me explain why he did the bad thing. Oh, but I'm not going to factor in any of the stuff that shows any other kinds of feelings, I'm going to assume THAT is the made up stuff because it doesn't fit.

Chapter 32-
Discusses the Cassie martyrdom stuff. Also discusses how most of the Evangelicals used the tragedy almost as a recruiting format. No major errors as far as I can tell.

Chapter 33-
In this chapter he tries again to show how religious Dylan was just because he often spoke of good vs evil, etc.
He also says "Dylan took to referring to humans as zombies. That was a rare similarity to Eric. But pitiful as we zombies were, Dylan didn't want to harm us."
He neglects to mention that Dylan mentioned getting a gun and going on a killing spree, and talked about NBK with his crush. The journal entries he sites are from 1997 to early 1998, so I'll overlook him not mentioning all the things Dylan said about "zombie fags being forever suffering and mournful", as this was written later.

He mentions that Fuselier believed Eric's You Know What I Hate posts showed his contempt for everyone as inferior.
He talks about Eric making bombs and while he acknowledges Dylan was around then and would detonate the bombs with Eric, he does not indicate that Dylan is anything more than an innocent bystander.
Chris Morris said that it was Dylan, NOT Eric, who brought a large pipe bomb into Blackjack one day. In his journal Dylan talks about blowing himself up with one of his pipebombs ("Atlanta") strapped to his neck. Somehow it's obvious to everyone but Cullen that Dylan was also participating in the bomb making way before NBK.

Cullen claims that the "missions" suddenly ended when Zach and Devon began dating.
That's the only time I've seen that claim. Anyone know if this is accurate? I always assumed they just fizzled out as stuff like that usually does.

Cullen excuses Dylan's threat against Devon with "Who he wouldn't mind killing? Dylan tossed out the comment in passing and presumably it was just a figure of speech. Presumably. But he had verbalized the idea- a big step."
Now let's imagine what he'd say if Eric wrote the same thing...

He discussed how Fuselier went about classifying Dylan's mental illness. He was a classic depressive but they don't usually hurt others. He then expanded that a "tiny number" of depressives will make a single tormentor pay for their hurt; "a few lash out into a wider circle" with specific targets, and "the rarest of these angry depressives... want to lash out randomly and show us all, hurt us back and make sure we feel it. This is the gunman who opens fire on a random crowd." But Fuselier concluded that Dylan didn't fit any of these things because he "was not a man of action. He was conscripted by a boy who was."
Again, they ignore how Dylan wrote of "going on my killing spree against anyone I want" or going NBK with his crush. If he had to be drafted into doing this by Eric, why was he writing about doing it alone or with a girl well before he and Eric ever began making plans for the attack?

Chapter 34-
It discusses Patrick Ireland's recovery. I don't know this information so can say whether it is accurate.
It also discusses the controversy with the 15 crosses, which is accurate.

I have a minor tidbit of info to share about Eric's poem that explains why he used the adjectives he did, and why he ended each stanza with the pop can line.

My high school English class had the same assignment freshman year (1995). Someone (don't remember who) wrote a poem titled I AM, and we read it in class. The assignment was to write our own I AM poem, using the original as a template.

I am a (blank) who (blank)
I wonder (blank)
I hear (blank)
I see (blank)
I want (blank)

Pretend, feel, touch, worry, cry, understand, say, dream, try, hope... (blank)

All of those beginnings to the lines were part of the original poem. Students had to create their own lines for each.

Eric didn't write about crying when he hears or sees a dog die because he was trying to make people think he was sensitive. He didn't come up with the "crying" part. He had to come up with something that would fit the existing start of "I cry when."

Since he was a dog person, that was probably the first thing that came to his mind.

Did anyone else have that assignment? I recognized it right away when I read it in the reports. Thought it was interesting that it wasn't just an assignment for my class!

Found a template here. Apparently it's a popular thing:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Maybe there was no "original" poem and all it is, is a prompt. Either way, that's a poem assignment many of us 90s kids got in high school...

EthanEmerson wrote:

I have a minor tidbit of info to share about Eric's poem that explains why he used the adjectives he did, and why he ended each stanza with the pop can line.

My high school English class had the same assignment freshman year (1995). Someone (don't remember who) wrote a poem titled I AM, and we read it in class. The assignment was to write our own I AM poem, using the original as a template.

I am a (blank) who (blank)
I wonder (blank)
I hear (blank)
I see (blank)
I want (blank)

Pretend, feel, touch, worry, cry, understand, say, dream, try, hope... (blank)

All of those beginnings to the lines were part of the original poem. Students had to create their own lines for each.

Eric didn't write about crying when he hears or sees a dog die because he was trying to make people think he was sensitive. He didn't come up with the "crying" part. He had to come up with something that would fit the existing start of "I cry when."

Since he was a dog person, that was probably the first thing that came to his mind.

Did anyone else have that assignment? I recognized it right away when I read it in the reports. Thought it was interesting that it wasn't just an assignment for my class!

I totally had to do the same assignment when I was in school!

It sounds like something I would’ve done in school too!

EthanEmerson wrote:

Found a template here. Apparently it's a popular thing:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Maybe there was no "original" poem and all it is, is a prompt. Either way, that's a poem assignment many of us 90s kids got in high school...

Excellent find!

Chapter 35-
In this chapter he's trying to demonstrate Eric's progression into crime- the first sentence is "Eric was a thief now". He brings up the theft of the Rent-A-Fence signs Eric wrote about in one of the Mission logs. But the way Cullen presents it, Eric stole the signs. Zach and Dylan must have been innocent bystanders.
He says this gave Eric the thirst and he wanted more and then talks about hacking the locker combos. Again he presents it as though this was Eric's idea despite the fact that they specifically targeted Devon's ex-boyfriend because Zach hated him. Cullen doesn't mention that part.

He talks about how they used NBK to reference their attack. "It also captured the flavor of Eric's egotistical, empathy-free attitude, but it bore no relation to Dylan's psyche. It certainly wasn't where he saw his life headed, at least not until the final months."
Complete and utter BS. Dylan wrote of going on his own killing spree on 11/3/97. He was the first to write of NBK, using that term specifically, on 2/2/98, saying he would do it with his crush, NOT Eric. This was a full two months before Eric wrote of going NBK WITH Dylan. So, tell me Dave, how do you know the massacre was not Dylan's idea? He coined the phrase for it, he mentioned it first, he spoke of doing it with somebody other than Eric. We're supposed to believe that Eric magically thought up the same thing with the same code name independently of Dylan months later?!

Lol!
Cullen talks of Dylan getting a new room after Byron was kicked out and how Dylan decorated it. "posters of baseball heroes and rock bands: Lou Gehrig, Roger Clemens, and Nine Inch Nails. Also, some street signs and a woman in a leopard bikini."
Also some street signs- yet no commentary on how Dylan was a thief now, no discussion of his escalating criminal behavior, his need for stimulation and excitement. Just "also some street signs" like he bought these in the store like the good, devoutly religious boy he was.

Cullen's second time excusing Dylan's mention of murder-
He says Dylan wrote of suicide "Then he weighed the other option: he named a friend and said he 'will get me a gun, ill go on my killing spree against anyone I want.' It was Dylan's second allusion to murder. The first had been ambiguous; this was overt. And now it was a spree. He changed the subject immediately. That was unusual. As a rule, Dylan hammered ideas relentlessly. He would drill for two straight pages on the 'Everlasting Struggle' or his destiny as a seeker. Murder was different. For the second time, he tossed in a single line, at the peak of despair, and promptly returned to his own destruction. The idea was germinating, a year and a half out. Dylan appeared to be exploring a spree. With Eric? Probably. But the details of this critical moment are lost."

First, there is nothing ambiguous about saying he wouldn't mind killing Devon. Second, even when Dylan writes that SOMEONE ELSE will get him a gun and he will go on "MY killing spree against ANYONE I WANT", somehow from this Cullen gets that Dylan was thinking of a killing spree with Eric.
Eric, of course, "was building bigger bombs. Coincidence? Unlikely. Eric's thinking had been evolving steadily in one direction since freshman year."

He mentions the paper Eric wrote on school shooters in 1997. Eric handed in this paper on 12/10/97 and in it mentions a shooting a few weeks before. Although he said it was in TX, the reference to a kid shooting into a prayer circle and killing 3 has to be Michael Carneal in KY. This shooting occurred on 12/1/97, just 9 days before Eric handed in his paper. It was a huge deal, all over the news at the time. Very major current event and I'd bet Eric was not the only one who wrote of it as a class assignment.
I very much suspect, but have no way of proving, that the majority of the topics that Eric wrote about (like the I AM poem and the Tularecito prompt question) were provided to the students as part of the course. Like, here are current event topics X, Y, or Z, choose one and write about it. I do not believe that he chose this topic solely on his own. Also, later, when he wrote about the Brady Bill and gun control laws. I believe this was also up for discussion in some class because Daniel Mauser also brought up the very same points to his dad shortly before his death. I don't believe that was a coincidence, I believe it's something they were discussing at school.
In hindsight it all seems prophetic, like look what the school shooter wrote about, he's been planning this all along. But I think a lot of it was just coincidence.

This chapter also includes the lies that he met Brenda Parker and they were dating. And that Dylan hung out with them sometimes but the poor sadsack was "too shy to speak."

He talks about Eric and Dylan getting into more trouble at school, the locker incident, etc. When describing the van break-in he wrote "Eric took guard duty and gave Dylan the dirty work" and then he says that Dylan kept going back to get more stuff from the van but "Eric had grown wary. 'That's enough!' he ordered, 'Let's go.'" He also said that Eric claimed it was Dylan's idea to break into the van and told police that "Dylan kept pestering him and eventually wore him down."
Funny, I didn't know that Cullen was with them that night to know that Eric was bossing Dylan around that way.
Also, Eric did say the break in was Dylan's idea (which I actually believe because, of the two, Dylan was definitely the impetuous one). But he absolutely never said or even implied in any way that Dylan pestered and pressured him to do it. He said Dylan brought it up, he said no, but after about 5 minutes he decided to do it.
Presenting it any other way is a complete lie.

I think Dylan wasn't really happy about going nbk with Eric as he stated: "gawd with Eric" Dylan knew how Eric was weak and all he had no other choice.
He originally planned nbk with female

Rebbie556 wrote:

I think Dylan wasn't really happy about going nbk with Eric as he stated: "gawd with Eric"  Dylan knew how Eric was weak and all  he had no other choice.
He originally planned nbk with female

I see this interpretation a lot and it always interests me. What Dylan said was "Im stuck in humanity. maybe going "NBK" (gawd) w. eric is the way to break free."
The "gawd" comes directly after NBK, which I interpret as him saying Oh my god, I can't believe I'm considering murdering people.
The way that it is written, I have never thought that "gawd" was commentary on Eric.

I agree that he would have preferred doing the attack Mickey and Mallory style with his halcyon girl. Eric was a second choice.

thelmar wrote:

Rebbie556 wrote:

I think Dylan wasn't really happy about going nbk with Eric as he stated: "gawd with Eric"  Dylan knew how Eric was weak and all  he had no other choice.
He originally planned nbk with female

I see this interpretation a lot and it always interests me. What Dylan said was "Im stuck in humanity. maybe going "NBK" (gawd) w. eric is the way to break free."
The "gawd" comes directly after NBK, which I interpret as him saying Oh my god, I can't believe I'm considering murdering people.
The way that it is written, I have never thought that "gawd" was commentary on Eric.

I agree that he would have preferred doing the attack Mickey and Mallory style with his halcyon girl. Eric was a second choice.

I've always felt that the answer was a simple one: Dylan was embarrassed that the massacre was still being called NBK even though it didn't resemble the film at all.

QuestionMark wrote:

I've always felt that the answer was a simple one: Dylan was embarrassed that the massacre was still being called NBK even though it didn't resemble the film at all.

I've never seen this interpretation before; not something I would have ever considered.

thelmar wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

I've always felt that the answer was a simple one: Dylan was embarrassed that the massacre was still being called NBK even though it didn't resemble the film at all.

I've never seen this interpretation before; not something I would have ever considered.

Well hey, it's what I'm here for.

I just always felt that Dylan sticking "gawd" in there was a sort of text based way of rolling his eyes. Notice how the first time he mentions "going NBK" it's with a girl, and doesn't have any quotation marks surrounding it. But when he talks about doing a killing spree with Eric, the initials NBK are put under quotation marks. That's where I got the impression it was more embarrassment that the code-name hadn't been changed.

Chapter 36-
The beginning of the chapter details police looking for accomplices and how they went about ruling people out. Most of it seems ok to me.
The one question I have is his statement about Robert Perry, after hearing about the shooting, Perry "stumbled out onto the porch, and cried." And that a week later a neighbor confirmed that they saw Perry on the porch.
This isn't in Perry's police statement and I don't recall a neighbor providing this kind of alibi for Perry anywhere in the 11k. Where is this information coming from?

He mentions the notes between Kristi and Eric and how Eric said Dan Lab could get off of his hit list if he let him return the punch in the face.
"Dr. Fuselier was not surprised by the notes. Very cold- blooded. Any kid could get in a fight. Dan had gotten really angry, and in the heat of a fist fight had clocked Eric. Eric was planning his punch. He wanted Dan to stand there defenseless and let him do it. Complete power over the kid. That's what Eric craved."
Oh, brother. How about Eric was humiliated by the punch (and who the hell wouldn't be?) and he wanted revenge? Fuselier's interpretation is a ridiculous overreach IMO.

He mentions the media going to town thinking that the attack was triggered by Eric's rejection by the Marines because he was on Luvox and how, of course, this wasn't really a trigger at all.
The main thing I raise my eyebrows at is"
"Luvox added an extra wrinkle, as it functioned as an anger suppressant."
No, just... no. Not how the drug works, not what it's used for. This guy's a journalist?

He writes of what the Klebold's told police.
"Dylan had a handful of tight buddies, his parents said. Zack and Nate, and of course, Eric, who was definitely closest."
ABSOLUTELY FALSE. To this day, Sue believes that Nate was Dylan's closest friend. She has ALWAYS said this.

He writes of their group of friends. "Eric was the quietest of the group. Tom and Sue never felt they knew what was going on in that head."
I vaguely recall Sue saying that she didn't feel that she knew Eric as well as Nate because he didn't spend as much time at their house. But I never heard her say they didn't know what was going on in his head. The main reason I take exception to the phrasing of this is that it is again trying to imply Eric's deceptive, cold nature. That no one could know him because he was always hiding something. The Klebold's just didn't know him that well, period. They were never trying to or prevented from getting into his head.

Cullen writes, "When the conspiracy evaporated, it left a dangerous vacuum. Dr. Fuselier saw the danger early on. 'Once we understood there was no third shooter, I realized that for everyone, it was going to be difficult to get closure,' he said." Because there was no understanding of why it happened and no one left alive to blame "Displaced anger would riddle the community for years."
Others might disagree, but I believe this is the reason Fuselier pushed the psychopath and depressive thing, and got Cullen to push it, too. For closure for the community.

He talks of Sheriff Stone's ridiculous gaffes to the press and how it embarrassed his team.

Chapter 37-
Cullen says that Dr. Kevin Albert is a psychiatrist.
Wrong. He's a psychologist.

He talks about the arrest and how both boys reacted.
"Three days after his arrest, Dylan pictured himself on the road to happiness with Harriet. He sketched it out in his journal as a two lane highway with a road sign off one shoulder and a dashed stripe down the center. His road led off to a majestic row of mountains, with a giant heart guiding him onward. 'It's so great to love,' he wrote. He was a felon now, but he was ecstatic. He filled half the page with drawings and exclamations: 'I love her & she loves me."
He is referring to pages 26404- 26407.
If you guys remember Dylan's drawing, the "majestic row of mountains" is two bumps and something that looks like a penis.
I do not interpret Dylan's entry this way at all. The majority of the entry, Dylan is talking about going onto another existence (either by suicide or NBK with the halcyon girl). His "ecstasy" is not love for the girl, his ecstasy is the beginning of his acceptance that the only way for him to be happy is for him to be dead and going onto the next life. The whole thing talks of how he and the girl need to die to be happy together. About how the zombies hold him back, how they are inferior to gods like him.

Cullen writes "Suicide or murder? The pattern solidifed: homicidal thoughts occasionally, self-destruction on every page."
I agree with the self destruction but the homicidal thoughts in this entry are not occasional.  
- either ill commit suicide or ill get w/ (halcyon girl) & it will be NBK for us
- and soon I & (halcyon girl) will snap. We will have our revenge on society
- the zombies will pay for their arrogance hate, fear, abandonment & distrust

Cullen writes "As Eric embraced murder, Dylan retreated. After the arrest, he had the one brief outburst in his journal, and then he dropped all mention of it for nearly a year."
What Cullen fails to mention is that there are exactly TWO dated journal entries (6-8-98 and 8-10-98) between that February 2, 1998 entry above and the January 20, 1999 entry when he says "maybe going NBK (gawd) w/ Eric". The rest of the writing is undated and not specific to anything going on in his life that would help to place it in the timeline. Unlike Eric, Dylan's "journal" was just scraps of individual papers around his room, not a bound notebook. The police couldn't put the writing that didn't have dates on it chronologically. There is no way that Cullen could know when any of the other pages were written.
But we do know that between Feb '98 and Jan '99, Dylan wrote loads of stuff about killing and death in Eric's 1998 yearbook, talked about blowing up the school, etc. with friends and co-workers in 1998, wrote in his 97-98 school planner "the lonely man strikes with absolute rage" (pg. 26437), and wrote a "do shit for NBK" list which also mentions B-Day shit. This implies it was written some time just prior to or during September 1998 (pg. 26521) because his birthday was 9/11.
There are a lot of other notes and drawings of what he'd wear, what they'd use for NBK, etc. But since I am not Cullen, I don't include these because they are not dated and I can't prove when they were written. Implying I know and using them to bolster my opinion and influence others would be dishonest.

Cullen writes about Dylan telling Brooks about Eric's web page by handing him the url for Eric's secret page. As has been discussed here, the truth of that is questionable. The handwriting does not resemble Dylan's (https://schoolshooters.info/sites/default/files/1997_1998_columbine_report.pdf pg. 45) and our source of information is Brooks Brown's word.

He writes about the boys Diversion interviews. Notice how he describes Dylan and Eric admitting to drinking and using drugs.
"Dylan copped to five or six drunken bouts, starting at age fifteen." "Dylan claimed he had quit drinking. he didn't like the taste and said it 'wasn't worth it.' He had tried pot, too, and rejected it for the same reasons."
"Eric was more cautious. He revealed just enough to appear confessional. He said he tasted alcohol three times, had never gotten drunk, and had given it up for good. Exactly what a parent wanted to hear. It was vintage Eric- more believable than abstinence and reassuring to boot: he had faced the temptation already and the danger had passed. He understood how his parents thought, and in no time he'd read Andrea Sanchez. In their first meeting, he turned an admission into a virture. He lied about pot, too. He claimed no interest. The alcohol admission gave the claim credence."
So... Dylan, whose close friends nicknamed him Vodka because he was a borderline alcoholic, lies about only getting drunk 6 times and no longer drinking because he didn't like the taste and Cullen has no comment. But... Eric lies about the same things and he's the master manipulator telling the adults what they want to hear. Suuuurrree.  

When Cullen writes about Eric's answers on the mental health evaluation, he says "Eric was seething as he scrawled out his answers, and he practically told them so on the form. The nerve of these lowlifes judging him. He explained how he hated fools telling him what to do. In the interview, he apparently directed his anger at other fools. They fell for it.
As we all know, this is what Eric actually wrote "short temper. Often get angry at almost anything I don't like. like people I have no respect for trying to tell me what to do. People telling me what to think. I have too many inside jokes or thoughts to have very many friends or I hate too many things."
Man, he was just seething, huh?
He also writes "Eric would howl about it later. The partial confession was his favorite con of all. He could turn over half his cards and still pull off the bluff."
Of course, Cullen doesn't direct the reader as to where Eric was bragging about this, because it never actually happened. In the Basement Tapes both Eric and Dylan bragged about fooling people, like Eric's dad with the Green Mountain Guns thing and getting the gun from Manes. But Eric never wrote of lying at the Diversion interview and not one of the articles or police descriptions of the Basement Tapes indicate that he spoke of the Diversion interview. Cullen didn't get to see the BT's.
So, basically, he's using Eric's statements about lying about other things and applying it to the Diversion interview to bolster what he is telling the reader about Eric's manipulation skills.
Cullen's lying. He also has excellent manipulation skills.

He details some of the contacts the Brown's had with police and how the police bungled things.
He writes, "But apparently Eric knew what they were all up to. Eric got wind that the Browns were on to him, so he took his Web site down for a while. There is no indication he ever learned of Dylan's betrayal."
This is pure speculation on his part. First, I don't know if Eric's website was offline in 1998; I know it was for part of 1997 after Aaron Brown reported it the first time. Second, Eric was a smart kid and was now on Diversion with felonies on his record. Maybe he figured having the Rebel Clan mission logs and bomb building tutorials linked to him through his website wasn't a good idea. Cullen cannot prove that Eric did anything with his website because of the Brown's.

My book club wants to do this next month....

Oh it’s on! They’d better get their notebooks and drink of choice ready

Screamingophelia wrote:

My book club wants to do this next month....

Oh it’s on! They’d better get their notebooks and drink of choice ready

Good luck to your poor book club!

Screamingophelia wrote:

My book club wants to do this next month....

Oh it’s on! They’d better get their notebooks and drink of choice ready

Would love to be a fly on the wall for that!

thank you so much for doing this!!!

They actually think it’s a good book, but it’s the only time they ever research the case.

Though On another book club some survivors who were freshman say that they thought it was accurate. They said Eric and Dylan were never bullied When I asked them if they knew them or any of their friends they said no

Chapter 38-
This is all about Cassie Bernall. The stuff she went through before coming to Columbine, the conflicts with her parents, and her transformation after a Christian retreat.
I think most of it is accurate from what I remember of She Said Yes.

He gets Val Schnurr's encounter with Dylan a bit wrong. Cullen says she only said yes when Dylan asked her if she believed. Val and several other witnesses said initially she told him no, and then she changed it to yes. Most of the witnesses felt she was just trying to say whatever she thought would not get her shot again.
He details how the whole Cassie martyr thing never happened and how Misty Bernall was writing She Said Yes even while details were coming out that suggested it wasn't true.

Chapter 39-
More about how Eric's writing illustrates how he thought he was vastly superior to the world
He talks of how Eric referred to people as robots just following orders and Dylan referred to them as zombies. How Eric looked down on others but how Dylan "looked on the zombies compassionately; Dylan yearned for the poor little creatures to break out of their boxes."

Ok, now that you're finished gagging. Let's look at what Dylan REALLY said about zombies:
-  I am GOD compared to some of these un-existable, brainless zombies.
- most morons never change - they never decide to live in the 'everything' frame of mind.
- why is it that the zombies achieve something me wants (overdeveloped me). They can love, why can't i?
- The zombies & their society band together & try to destroy what is superior & what they don't understand & are afraid of. Soon... either ill commit suicide, or I'll get w. [edited] & it will be NBK for us.
- Almost happiness in slavery -- the real people (gods) are slaves to the majority of zombies, but we know & love being superior.
- By the way, some zombies are smarter than others, some manipulate... like my parents.) I am God. [edited] is God. & zombies will pay for their arrogance, hate, fear, abandonment, & distrust.
- I will overcome all fears, doubts, & zombie-based thoughts (oxymoron)
- The zombies have set their place in my mind. for the cliff theory, Ive jumped off w. [arrow down to] [edited] & we've floated away to the halcyon. the zombies will pay for their being, their nature
- This shit again. back at writing doing just like a fucking zombie. Lately I cant change my mind from the fucking deeds of zombies
- the zombies will never cause us pain anymore. the humanity was a test.
- The little zombie human fags will know their errors, & be forever suffering & mournful, HAHAHA

Awww, sweet little Dylan is so compassionate over the zombies. SMFH.

And, Fuselier decided after just one hour of reading Eric's journal that he was a psychopath.

Imagine getting that Dylan had compassion for the people he felt below him because he referred to them as zombies not robots. Cullen is wild.

Chapter 40-
This is the chapter in which he tries to prove that Eric is a psychopath. Since I disagree with this wholeheartedly, please excuse the length of this post, but I think it's important to show people who maybe haven't been through the whole 11k, etc. to see the other side of what Cullen is claiming.
[Disclaimer: It will appear as though I am defending Eric in some of this post. Please be clear- I think what he and Dylan did was beyond terrible and is inexcusable. I am not pro-Eric or pro-Dylan, I am pro- truth and figuring out why kids like them do these things].

He starts by saying Fuselier recognized Eric as a psychopath right away and then spent the next 12 weeks trying to refute this diagnosis but could not.

Cullen writes:
"Eric saw humans as chemical compounds with an inflated sense of their own worth. 'it's just all nature, chemistry, and math," he wrote. 'you die, burn, melt, evaporate, decay."
This is taken out of context. What Eric actually was writing about was how people were not going to understand why he committed the massacre and why humans shouldn't be bound by laws or morals.
The full quote is this"
"fuck mercy fuck justic fuck morals fuck civilized fuck rules fuck laws... DIE manmade words...people think they apply to everything when they dont/cant. theres no such thing as True Good or True Evil, its all relative to the observer. its just all nature, chemistry, and math. deal with it. but since dealing with it seems impossible for mankind, since we have to slap warning labels on nature, then... you die. burn, melt, evaporate, decay, just go the fuck away!!!! YAAAAAH!!!!"
Cullen has either totally misinterpreted or intentionally misrepresented this thought written by Harris.

Cullen writes the following about what has been determined about psychopaths:
"Psychopaths are distinguished by two characteristics. The first is a ruthless disregard for others: they will defraud, maim, or kill for the most trivial personal gain. The second is an astonishing gift for disguising the first. It's the deception that makes them so dangerous. You never see him coming. Don't look for the oddball creeping you out. Psychopaths don't act like Hannibal Lecter or Norman Bates. They come off like Hugh Grant, in his most adorable role."
"Joy, grief, anxiety, or amusement. He can mimic any one cue. He knows the facial expressions, the voice modulation, and the body language. He's not just conning you with a scheme, he's conning you with his life. His entire personality is a fabrication, with the purpose of deceiving suckers like you."
Now, let's think about Eric Harris-
Very few people actually liked Eric. He had a few friends but contrary to Cullen's claims was not popular or "practically a celebrity".  A lot of people, like Devon, Sasha, the Browns, and kids in school said he was scary, weird, and talked about weird things. No one was really surprised that Eric was involved in the shooting.  If a pyschopath is supposed to fly so under the radar, then why was it not a shock that Eric did what he did?
Second, there are enough videos floating around of Eric from which you can get some idea of his personality. When they're messing up lines in Radioactive Clothing and laughing, when they are joking around at Rampart Range, when you see him looking anxious/uncomfortable in the Eric in Columbine video, or when you read some of the things he wrote. Honestly take a look at that stuff and ask yourself if he is faking his emotional responses. I don't believe for a second that this stuff is mimicry. Watch some of his school vids- the kid is a lousy actor. I'm supposed to believe that he's good at acting in real life but not on video? Something doesn't add up there.

Cullen says "Psychopaths take great personal pride in their deceptions and extract tremendous joy from them. Lies become the psychopath's occupation, and when the truth will work, they lie for sport." He calls this "duper's delight."
I have yet to see one lie that Eric told for sport. He was a liar for sure but he lied about things like being sorry for breaking into the van and wanting to join the Marines. He lied about things to protect himself, not to amuse himself.

Cullen writes,
"Hare created a separate screening device for juveniles and identified hallmarks that appear during the school years: gratuitous lying, indifference to the pain of others, defiance of authority figures, unresponsiveness to reprimands or threatened punishments, petty theft, persistent aggression, cutting classes and breaking curfew, cruelty to animals, early experimentation with sex, and vandalism and setting fires. Eric bragged about nine of the ten hallmarks in his journal and on his website- for most of them, relentlessly. Only animal cruelty is missing."
Not quite.
As mentioned, his lying wasn't gratuitious.
Harris may have talked a big game about not liking being told what to do by authority figures but we all know he that he wasn't mouthing off to teachers, his parents, or his bosses. He did what he was told, he got his school work, chores, and stuff at his jobs done. If he was given a punishment he abided by it to avoid further trouble. Saying he was defiant of authority figures and unresponsive to reprimands or threatened punishments is untrue.
There is absolutely no evidence that Eric cut class. Brooks said Eric rarely missed class and that's why him being out on that last day was so strange, especially because of the test.
Eric also talked a lot about hurting other people but until the end of his life he didn't. In fact, it was just his last few months that he was getting mouthy with or picking fights with people, according to Chris Morris. So calling him persistently aggressive just because he wrote aggressive things is a stretch; he wasn't acting on it for the vast majority of his life.
Eric was a virgin, so that's a lie, too.

So, of these 10 indicators I think Eric fits four of them:
1. indifference to the pain of others
2. petty theft
3. breaking curfew (the "missions")
4. vandalism and setting fires  

Cullen writes, "Psychopaths feel something; Eric seemed to show sadness when his dog was sick, and he occasionally felt twinges of regret towards humans. But the signals come through dimly"
Disagree.
Eric spoke and wrote of how bad he felt for his parents several times, how they were good people and were good to him, he said the same of his brother and he cried over friends in Michigan. These don't seem like twinges to me.

He mentions that "psychopaths develop a handful of primitive emotions closely related to their own welfare. Thre have been identified: anger, frustration, and rage."
This I agree fits with Eric.
He says, "Indignation runs strong in the psychopath. It springs from a staggering ego and sense of superiority."
I agree that indignation was a trait of Eric's. I agree that Eric had an ego and liked to think himself better than other people, but I also see a lot of self-hate in Eric so I question how much of his "I'm a god" stuff was real.

Other traits he says psychopaths possess: thrill seekers, rarely stick with a career because they get bored ("they lack clear goals and objectives", "they make careless mistakes and pass up stunning opportunities")
Cullen says this fits Eric because he had no plans for his future and "He was one of the smartest kids in his high school, but apparently never bothered to apply to college."
I disagree on a few points.
Eric didn't seem like much of a thrill seeker to me. He seemed like a control freak. Everything he did was carefully planned and orchestrated, he left nothing to chance. He was detail-oriented, or as much as a kid his age can be. Only the van break-in was spontaneous and careless. I don't consider the missions thrill seeking because I don't think I know a single teenager who HASN'T done shit like that at some point or another. I know I did and I wasn't a particularly daring kind of kid.
And they started planning NBK probably around April of 1998, when they were juniors. You start applying for colleges in the fall of your senior year. He was by that time several months into planning his own death. When you think of it this way, is it really surprising that he wasn't thinking of college?
Finally, Eric was a bright kid but he was far from being one of the smartest kids at Columbine. Even from the start of high school, he wasn't taking honors or AP classes. He wasn't in any kind of gifted program and didn't participate in any academic clubs, etc. either in high school or middle school, as far as we know. It's clear that Cullen is trying to intimate that Eric had all this wasted potential because he was a psychopath, but from everything we have available it looks like Eric was an above average student at best. He was not valedictorian material because he wasn't smart enough, not because he wasn't motivated enough.

He talks about the relationship between Eric and Dylan as a "dyad, murderous pairs who feed off each other."
Definitely agree with this.
But then he says, "An angry, erratic depressive and a sadistic pschopath make a combustible pair"
I agree Dylan was depressed, angry, and erratic. I also believe there was more there, too. I'm not a psychiatrist but I don't see Dylan as this one-dimensional caricature he's described as. He was a pretty complex person from everything I've read.
I see no evidence that Eric was a sadist (someone who derives pleasure from inflicting pain, suffering, or humiliation on others). He was angry, he hated himself and other people, he wanted to be respected and he wasn't and he wanted people to pay for not giving him that respect. But I don't think he got off on watching other people hurt. Exacting revenge is a whole other animal from taking pleasure in suffering.
And, of course, I don't think he was a psychopath either.

Ya'll need to remember that Eric wrote the journal as
REB which is his persona opossite of the "weird, weak Eric" like he said. He wrote this for the audience.

real Eric was in the basement tapes. Why they didn't they released it we know why. Because we would see the different side of him. Not like cullen, media portrayed him.

Rebbie556 wrote:

Ya'll need to remember that Eric wrote the journal as
REB  which is his persona opossite of the "weird, weak Eric" like he said. He wrote this for the audience.

real Eric was in the basement tapes. Why they didn't they released it we know why.   Because we would see the different side of him. Not like cullen, media portrayed him.

I agree. I feel like his last journal entry was him coming to terms with that he would have to do this "don't let the weird looking Eric kid come"

Towards the end he only referred to himself as Reb, do you remember the boss at Blackjack calling 911 and calling him Reb Harris?

I think it's interesting in RR Dylan called him Reb but in his writings and to his other friends it was always Eric.

Rebbie556 wrote:

Ya'll need to remember that Eric wrote the journal as
REB  which is his persona opossite of the "weird, weak Eric" like he said. He wrote this for the audience.

"You know what. Fuck it. Why should I have to explain myself to you survivors when half of this shit I say you shitheads won’t understand and if you can then woopie fucking do. That just means you have something to say as my reason for killing. And the majority of the audience won’t even understand my motives either! They’ll say 'ah, he’s crazy, he’s insane, worthless!' All you fuckers should die! DIE! What the fuck is the point if only some people see what I am saying, there will always be ones who don’t, ones that are to dumb or naïve or ignorant or just plain retarded. If I can’t pound it into every single persons head then it is pointless."

I will repeat this quote ever single time someone says Eric was writing for an audience. I'm going to end up sounding like a God damned broken record, but fuck, it is really obvious from this passage that Eric isn't writing for an audience. I hate seeing people constantly throw that assertion out there.

QuestionMark wrote:

Rebbie556 wrote:

Ya'll need to remember that Eric wrote the journal as
REB  which is his persona opossite of the "weird, weak Eric" like he said. He wrote this for the audience.

"You know what. Fuck it. Why should I have to explain myself to you survivors when half of this shit I say you shitheads won’t understand and if you can then woopie fucking do. That just means you have something to say as my reason for killing. And the majority of the audience won’t even understand my motives either! They’ll say 'ah, he’s crazy, he’s insane, worthless!' All you fuckers should die! DIE! What the fuck is the point if only some people see what I am saying, there will always be ones who don’t, ones that are to dumb or naïve or ignorant or just plain retarded. If I can’t pound it into every single persons head then it is pointless."

I will repeat this quote ever single time someone says Eric was writing for an audience. I'm going to end up sounding like a God damned broken record, but fuck, it is really obvious from this passage that Eric isn't writing for an audience. I hate seeing people constantly throw that assertion out there.

It will become like your own personal wage gap buzzer that I keep seeing on YouTube.

I don't think I am wrong in saying that the Basement Tapes also probably has many different "scenes" where they lay out exactly why they are doing it.

QuestionMark wrote:

Rebbie556 wrote:

Ya'll need to remember that Eric wrote the journal as
REB  which is his persona opossite of the "weird, weak Eric" like he said. He wrote this for the audience.

"You know what. Fuck it. Why should I have to explain myself to you survivors when half of this shit I say you shitheads won’t understand and if you can then woopie fucking do. That just means you have something to say as my reason for killing. And the majority of the audience won’t even understand my motives either! They’ll say 'ah, he’s crazy, he’s insane, worthless!' All you fuckers should die! DIE! What the fuck is the point if only some people see what I am saying, there will always be ones who don’t, ones that are to dumb or naïve or ignorant or just plain retarded. If I can’t pound it into every single persons head then it is pointless."

I will repeat this quote ever single time someone says Eric was writing for an audience. I'm going to end up sounding like a God damned broken record, but fuck, it is really obvious from this passage that Eric isn't writing for an audience. I hate seeing people constantly throw that assertion out there.

I'm with you that stating it as a fact is annoying, but I don't see that passage as even coming close to refuting the point. If anything, that shows exasperation with his audience, not that he doesn't have one. "You know what. Fuck it. Why should I have to explain myself to you survivors" is something you say after attempting to explain yourself to survivors. As screaming points out, that seems much of the reason for the Basement Tapes. As somebody else pointed out, probably the reason for their t-shirts. All of that, for an audience.

I also see the entry on the day he got the guns as best supporting the contention: "Well folks, today was a very important day in the history of R." Who are the folks? We are, obviously. Also, it does say "R" to support Rebbie's contention.

He left the journal on his bed after the massacre for cops to find it seems. I doubt every entry had an audience in mind - say the experiments, but I also think some did - he even seems to want to show off his drawings to the camera based on what we know of the Basement Tapes.

cakeman wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

Rebbie556 wrote:

Ya'll need to remember that Eric wrote the journal as
REB  which is his persona opossite of the "weird, weak Eric" like he said. He wrote this for the audience.

"You know what. Fuck it. Why should I have to explain myself to you survivors when half of this shit I say you shitheads won’t understand and if you can then woopie fucking do. That just means you have something to say as my reason for killing. And the majority of the audience won’t even understand my motives either! They’ll say 'ah, he’s crazy, he’s insane, worthless!' All you fuckers should die! DIE! What the fuck is the point if only some people see what I am saying, there will always be ones who don’t, ones that are to dumb or naïve or ignorant or just plain retarded. If I can’t pound it into every single persons head then it is pointless."

I will repeat this quote ever single time someone says Eric was writing for an audience. I'm going to end up sounding like a God damned broken record, but fuck, it is really obvious from this passage that Eric isn't writing for an audience. I hate seeing people constantly throw that assertion out there.

I'm with you that stating it as a fact is annoying, but I don't see that passage as even coming close to refuting the point. If anything, that shows exasperation with his audience, not that he doesn't have one. "You know what. Fuck it. Why should I have to explain myself to you survivors" is something you say after attempting to explain yourself to survivors. As screaming points out, that seems much of the reason for the Basement Tapes. As somebody else pointed out, probably the reason for their t-shirts. All of that, for an audience.

I also see the entry on the day he got the guns as best supporting the contention: "Well folks, today was a very important day in the history of R." Who are the folks? We are, obviously. Also, it does say "R" to support Rebbie's contention.

He left the journal on his bed after the massacre for cops to find it seems. I doubt every entry had an audience in mind - say the experiments, but I also think some did - he even seems to want to show off his drawings to the camera based on what we know of the Basement Tapes.

The thing is that when I hear people say "Eric was writing for an audience" what I'm hearing is "Eric was just posturing, he didn't mean what he wrote down", and to me that just reeks. When Eric was pouring himself out on his pages, I assume he was telling the truth. He talks about being shy around women, how he hates his own looks, about how people picked on or rejected him, so I assume that when he sticks statements in-between that like how he wants to kill mentally challenged people or torture a freshman, he's being honest to his audience about who he is and what he's feeling.

I dunno, maybe he just lied to look cooler, but his actions on 4/20 suggest otherwise to me.

QuestionMark wrote:

The thing is that when I hear people say "Eric was writing for an audience" what I'm hearing is "Eric was just posturing, he didn't mean what he wrote down", and to me that just reeks. When Eric was pouring himself out on his pages, I assume he was telling the truth. He talks about being shy around women, how he hates his own looks, about how people picked on or rejected him, so I assume that when he sticks statements in-between that like how he wants to kill mentally challenged people or torture a freshman, he's being honest to his audience about who he is and what he's feeling.

I dunno, maybe he just lied to look cooler, but his actions on 4/20 suggest otherwise to me.

I agree with this, with a clarification. I do believe the journal writings were representative of Eric's feelings. It can't be interpretated both ways- i.e., you can't say that when he wrote of killing mankind he was being Reb but when he wrote of people making fun of him he was Eric. That's like Cullen picking out only those things that support his point and finding excuses to dismiss other things that weaken it.
I do believe there were parts of his journal that seemed over the top even for Eric and maybe there is some posturing in that, but Eric hated people, he hated life, he killed and severely maimed people which is about as good evidence as any that his words were real.
However, I do think that he wrote for an audience but when I say it it's because he would specifically say things like "why should I have to explain myself to you survivors", "I know what all you fuckers are thinking and what to do to piss you off and make you feel bad", "  someones bound to say "what were they thinking?" when we go NBK or when we were planning it, so this what I am thinking" "I hate you people for leaving me out of so many fun things." He was, quite literally, addressing an audience because he knew after they did this thing people were going to be trying to figure out why and he wanted his ideas, thoughts, and feelings known. I think that's why he started the journal in the first place since the beginning of it seems to coincide with when they decided they were going NBK.
I think like every angry, confused, self- hating, probably mentally ill person, some of what Eric wrote was for shock value, some was for sympathy (although I think he tried to keep that to a minimum because he didn't want to appear weak), and some was brutally honest.

QuestionMark wrote:

cakeman wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

Rebbie556 wrote:

Ya'll need to remember that Eric wrote the journal as
REB  which is his persona opossite of the "weird, weak Eric" like he said. He wrote this for the audience.

"You know what. Fuck it. Why should I have to explain myself to you survivors when half of this shit I say you shitheads won’t understand and if you can then woopie fucking do. That just means you have something to say as my reason for killing. And the majority of the audience won’t even understand my motives either! They’ll say 'ah, he’s crazy, he’s insane, worthless!' All you fuckers should die! DIE! What the fuck is the point if only some people see what I am saying, there will always be ones who don’t, ones that are to dumb or naïve or ignorant or just plain retarded. If I can’t pound it into every single persons head then it is pointless."

I will repeat this quote ever single time someone says Eric was writing for an audience. I'm going to end up sounding like a God damned broken record, but fuck, it is really obvious from this passage that Eric isn't writing for an audience. I hate seeing people constantly throw that assertion out there.

I'm with you that stating it as a fact is annoying, but I don't see that passage as even coming close to refuting the point. If anything, that shows exasperation with his audience, not that he doesn't have one. "You know what. Fuck it. Why should I have to explain myself to you survivors" is something you say after attempting to explain yourself to survivors. As screaming points out, that seems much of the reason for the Basement Tapes. As somebody else pointed out, probably the reason for their t-shirts. All of that, for an audience.

I also see the entry on the day he got the guns as best supporting the contention: "Well folks, today was a very important day in the history of R." Who are the folks? We are, obviously. Also, it does say "R" to support Rebbie's contention.

He left the journal on his bed after the massacre for cops to find it seems. I doubt every entry had an audience in mind - say the experiments, but I also think some did - he even seems to want to show off his drawings to the camera based on what we know of the Basement Tapes.

The thing is that when I hear people say "Eric was writing for an audience" what I'm hearing is "Eric was just posturing, he didn't mean what he wrote down", and to me that just reeks. When Eric was pouring himself out on his pages, I assume he was telling the truth. He talks about being shy around women, how he hates his own looks, about how people picked on or rejected him, so I assume that when he sticks statements in-between that like how he wants to kill mentally challenged people or torture a freshman, he's being honest to his audience about who he is and what he's feeling.

I dunno, maybe he just lied to look cooler, but his actions on 4/20 suggest otherwise to me.

On that I agree. "He knew he was writing for an audience, therefore he was just posturing" doesn't seem to follow, and it is quite annoying to see people state with confidence. It should warrant some skepticism "remember, he knew this would be read one day, he might not be completely truthful", but not establish that he wasn't truthful. It takes more to argue that claim. I would agree, however, that the majority of his writing leading up to the massacre is addressing future readers like us, not himself or nobody in particular.

And I think the journals, then the basement tapes, and then the shirts establish some of what you wanted to establish by using that quote of his. He was trying in earnest to explain himself and struggling, and so tried three different methods.

thelmar wrote:

I think like every angry, confused, self- hating, probably mentally ill person, some of what Eric wrote was for shock value, some was for sympathy (although I think he tried to keep that to a minimum because he didn't want to appear weak), and some was brutally honest.

cakeman wrote:

"He knew he was writing for an audience, therefore he was just posturing" doesn't seem to follow, and it is quite annoying to see people state with confidence. It should warrant some skepticism "remember, he knew this would be read one day, he might not be completely truthful", but not establish that he wasn't truthful. It takes more to argue that claim. I would agree, however, that the majority of his writing leading up to the massacre is addressing future readers like us, not himself or nobody in particular.

And I think the journals, then the basement tapes, and then the shirts establish some of what you wanted to establish by using that quote of his. He was trying in earnest to explain himself and struggling, and so tried three different methods.

On this, I can agree. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I'll add to your statement by saying that some of Eric's statements might've also been attempts at humor as well, like when he talks about how people who can't hold a lighter the right way deserved to be shot.

Sorry it's taken so long to get back to this; but dealing with some stuff.

Chapter 41-
Nothing really stands out to me as out there; though I don't have a lot of knowledge of the lawsuits and things to know how accurate the information he presented is.
Discussed in this chapter:
-Fuselier presented his case of Eric as psychopath at a school shooter summit in Va and that a bunch of attending psychologists agreed with him.
-Jeffco covering their tracks (the missing Guerra files).
-Some of the healing of Ireland, Hochhalter, Graves, and Kirklin.
-The decision to get rid of the library and kids wanting to go back to Columbine.
-The lawsuits. The donations that the victims and families of the deceased fought over.
- The letters the Harrises and Klebold's sent to the victims and their families.

Chapter 42-
Cullen writes "Eric was an injustice collector"
He TOTALLY ripped that from Judy Brown. I have tried in vain to find the video in which she said this but so many of them have been removed from YouTube. I am 100% certain that it was from an interview in 1999 in the months after the massacre. She discussed the snowball incident and how he got real angry and beat on her car. And then she talked about how he never let things go and she called him an injustice collector. I remember it because I thought it was such a good phrase.
If I can find the video I'll post the link here.

Cullen goes on for 3 paragraphs about how in the year before the killings Eric was writing down all his plans on his website, journal, in Dylan's yearbook, in other people's year books. "This is just the kind of move that delighted Eric: warn the world, in writing, to show us how stupid we all are."
And then even though Dylan was doing the exact same thing, all Cullen writes is that in Eric's yearbook Dylan wrote "page after page of specific murder plans."
SMDH.

And as proof that they weren't bullied, he writes "Despite the press's obsession with bullying and misfits, that's not how the boys presented themselves. Dylan laughed about picking on the new freshman and 'fags.' Neither one complained about bullies picking on them- they boasted about doing it themselves."
Let's just ignore all of the friends and acquaintances who SAID they were bullied. Let's just ignore Dylan's mention of "our revenge in the commons". Let's just ignore the fact that NO ONE is actually going to be filling pages of a friend's yearbook with their tales of all the times they were picked on!

He writes "NBK was nothing but a diversion to Dylan- fantasy chats with his buddy about what they would like to do. Dylan didn't believe it; he didn't plan to go through with it. All he knew was that he was a felon now. His miserable life had grown pathetically worse."
Utter garbage. He can't know how much Dylan believed or disbelieved, how invested or univested he was. Dylan built bombs with Eric. Dylan bought guns with Robyn. Dylan bought a gun from Manes BY HIMSELF. Dylan spent the money he earned on supplies for NBK. How in the hell can Cullen claim he was doing nothing?

There's more stuff about how Eric following the Diversion rules to the letter and convincing everyone he was on the straight and narrow is proof he was a psychopath.
Or, maybe it's just proof that he knew what he needed to do to get out of the program.
He uses as an example that Eric's Diversion counselor told him he needed to manage his time better. Apparently "Eric could be a procrastinator- a common affliction among psychopaths."
Cullen writes that Eric went out and bought a Rebel planner, filled a week in, then showed it to her and "gushed" that it was really helping him and after that he quit using it to manage his time and instead "used the book to vent his real feelings."
Another half-truth. He did alter the headings in his twisted ways, but, he kept writing down his assignments and appointments, too. It's all there in the Columbine Documents, kinda hard to miss.
Also, where is he getting that Eric was a procrastinator? He strikes me as highly anal retentive and someone who planned things to the letter.

And this gem:
"And why wouldn't Andrea Sanchez like Eric more? Everyone did. He was funny and clever, and that smile, man- he knew just when to flash it, too; just how long to hang back, tease you with it, make you work for it, and then lay it on."
I'm sorry but what in the actual f--k is that? Just, where in his ass is he pulling this from? Dylan was far better liked than Eric. Far better. Ask literally anyone.

Cullen implies that Eric may not have needed to change to from Zoloft to Luvox, and only did it because it was actually fixing him and he didn't want to be fixed. "He might have actually complained about the Zoloft because it was working too effective."
Another bombshell statement with squat for evidence to back it up.

He writes that Eric had trouble snowing his dad like he did everyone else and uses pg. 25946 of the Columbine Documents as his proof. (It's the page where he writes "Unwilling to control study habits. Unmotivated to succeed in school", etc.)
My question is this- The page BEFORE this (pg. 25945) says "Kevin Harris"
So how do we know this list wasn't in reference to Kevin? Eric's grades were decent; he wasn't brilliant like Cullen wants people to think but he was getting good marks and his assignments were always turned in on time. I don't think this page applied to Eric.  

Cullen writes "And Dylan had a big surprise. He had no intention of inflicting Eric's massacre. He enjoyed the banter, but privately said good-bye. He expected his August 10 entry to be his last. Dylan was planning to kill himself long before NBK."
The pages he's referencing are pg. 26412- 26413. Dylan mentions killing himself for the umpteenth time but for some reason Cullen expects us to believe that this is the one where he really meant it and he was never really going to do NBK.  

Cullen claims that the videos the two made were "Eric guiding his unsteady partner: fantasy to reality, one step at a time. Dylan ate it up."
And again  

There's more stuff about Eric's class assignments and how they show what a psychopath he was; it's kind of beating a dead horse at this point so I won't belabor it but he includes, at length, the Nazi paper and then how Eric must have realized he was showing too much of himself so then he went the other way and got all contrite with other stuff he wrote.
And he again dismisses one of Eric's heartfelt writings, where he says he would have been a great marine and it would have given him a reason to be good. He said Fuselier said "Even extreme psychopaths show flickers of empathy now and then."
SMDH.

thelmar wrote:

Very few people actually liked Eric. He had a few friends but contrary to Cullen's claims was not popular or "practically a celebrity".  

There are tons of people who have stated that Eric was a nice person. It's common knowledge that irritability is a symptom of antisocial personality disorder.

thelmar wrote:

Devon A lot of people, like Devon, Sasha, the Browns, and kids in school said he was scary, weird, and talked about weird things. No one was really surprised that Eric was involved in the shooting.  If a pyschopath is supposed to fly so under the radar, then why was it not a shock that Eric did what he did?

Have you ever heard of serial killer and child pedophile Alfred Fish? I suggest you look him up. He often penned sexually explicit, graphic letters to women. Fish never flew under the radar like Ted Bundy, but his sadistic urges and delight in deceiving, and then later murdering, young children make him a psychopath.  

thelmar wrote:

Second, there are enough videos floating around of Eric from which you can get some idea of his personality. When they're messing up lines in Radioactive Clothing and laughing, when they are joking around at Rampart Range, when you see him looking anxious/uncomfortable in the Eric in Columbine video, or when you read some of the things he wrote. Honestly take a look at that stuff and ask yourself if he is faking his emotional responses.

Why would Eric need to fake his emotional responses around his friends? What was there for him to gain?

thelmar wrote:

I don't believe for a second that this stuff is mimicry.

Neither do I.

thelmar wrote:

I have yet to see one lie that Eric told for sport. He was a liar for sure but he lied about things like being sorry for breaking into the van and wanting to join the Marines. He lied about things to protect himself, not to amuse himself.

Harris: "I could convince them that I’m going to climb Mount Everest, or I have a twin
brother growing out of my back. I can make you believe anything."--Basement Tapes

thelmar wrote:

There is absolutely no evidence that Eric cut class. Brooks said Eric rarely missed class and that's why him being out on that last day was so strange, especially because of the test.
Eric also talked a lot about hurting other people but until the end of his life he didn't.

He seems"other-oriented" perfectionist; you know, one who is often disparaging and judgmental of people who fail to meet their standards, e.g., Dylan, Brooks Brown, Mark Manes, etc.

thelmar wrote:

So calling him persistently aggressive just because he wrote aggressive things is a stretch; he wasn't acting on it for the vast majority of his life.

There's not a lot of information out there about Eric's childhood and preadolescence years, other than what's already publicly available online and in newspaper archives. From what I gather, he had a normal childhood punctuated by tragedy (his physical deformities) and occasional odd-ball behavior (playing with matches and fire at an early age). Other than that,  I'm not qualified to say he was aggressive his entire life, and neither are most forum members, who are strangers to the Harrises. There's just so little evidence.

thelmar wrote:

Cullen writes, "Psychopaths feel something; Eric seemed to show sadness when his dog was sick, and he occasionally felt twinges of regret towards humans. But the signals come through dimly"
Disagree.
Eric spoke and wrote of how bad he felt for his parents several times, how they were good people and were good to him, he said the same of his brother and he cried over friends in Michigan. These don't seem like twinges to me.

If Eric felt so sorry for what he's about to do, he wouldn't have done it. The guilt and shame would have overwhelmed him, as it would most normal teens. This shows poor impulse control and an inability to prioritize his future. In fact, he only had weeks to go until graduation.

thelmar wrote:

He mentions that "psychopaths develop a handful of primitive emotions closely related to their own welfare. Thre have been identified: anger, frustration, and rage."
This I agree fits with Eric.

I am glad you agree.

thelmar wrote:

You start applying for colleges in the fall of your senior year. He was by that time several months into planning his own death. When you think of it this way, is it really surprising that he wasn't thinking of college?

Has anyone ever doubted that Eric/Dylan thought they would die by police fire?

jada887 wrote:

There are tons of people who have stated that Eric was a nice person. It's common knowledge that irritability is a symptom of antisocial personality disorder.

There are definitely people who liked Eric, but there are more that reported thinking he was weird, angry, and scary. My point is, that Cullen is implying that everybody liked Eric, that he was popular. That just isn't the case.

jada887 wrote:

Have you ever heard of serial killer and child pedophile Alfred Fish? I suggest you look him up. He often penned sexually explicit, graphic letters to women. Fish never flew under the radar like Ted Bundy, but his sadistic urges and delight in deceiving, and then later murdering, young children make him a psychopath.

Yes, I'm quite familiar with Fish; he's equal parts fascinating and disgusting. My point about Eric is that absolutely no one (save maybe his parents but we don't really know) was surprised that Eric was capable of something violent. Countless times throughout the police reports people state they were shocked that Dylan did something like this but they were not surprised with Eric's involvement. If he was supposed to be so good at hiding his evil/violent side, fitting in and not bringing attention to this part of himself, how come everyone knew he had the potential to be violent?

jada887 wrote:

Why would Eric need to fake his emotional responses around his friends? What was there for him to gain?

If you subscribe to Fuselier's (and by extension, Cullen's) description of a psychopath, all emotional responses by a psychopath are faked. They mimic the responses of others to get along, to not stand out. They feel emotions only shallowly, if at all. They are incapable of having any real depth of feeling, even for family members and friends. So, for a psychopath to be yukking it up with his friends, he'd have to be faking, according to Fuselier and Cullen. My point is, I don't believe this based upon what I see in those videos.

jada887 wrote:

"I could convince them that I’m going to climb Mount Everest, or I have a twin
brother growing out of my back. I can make you believe anything."[/i]--Basement Tapes

But he didn't tell those kinds of lies, did he? He lied to his parents about not having alcohol in his room. He lied about feeling bad that he broke into the van. His lies had a self-serving purpose, they weren't for fun. Yes, he prided himself on being able to lie himself out of these situations, but he wasn't lying for sport.  

jada887 wrote:

He seems"other-oriented" perfectionist; you know, one who is often disparaging and judgmental of people who fail to meet their standards, e.g., Dylan, Brooks Brown, Mark Manes, etc.

Agreed.  

jada887 wrote:

There's not a lot of information out there about Eric's childhood and preadolescence years, other than what's already publicly available online and in newspaper archives. From what I gather, he had a normal childhood punctuated by tragedy (his physical deformities) and occasional odd-ball behavior (playing with matches and fire at an early age). Other than that,  I'm not qualified to say he was aggressive his entire life, and neither are most forum members, who are strangers to the Harrises. There's just so little evidence.

Agreed. There's no evidence that, other than writing aggressive things, that he was overtly aggressive until the last year of his life. Certainly people thought he had the potential for violence but he wasn't actually committing violent or aggressive acts until that last year. Cullen implying so is misleading because there is nothing to back that up.  

jada887 wrote:

If Eric felt so sorry for what he's about to do, he wouldn't have done it. The guilt and shame would have overwhelmed him, as it would most normal teens. This shows poor impulse control and an inability to prioritize his future. In fact, he only had weeks to go until graduation.

Lots of people do things they feel guilt and shame about. Drug addicts, theives, spousal abusers, child abusers, etc... Just because these people don't stop themselves does not mean they are all psychopaths. Poor impulse control can occur from other mental health conditions. But Eric subdued his "impulses" for a year while he was planning NBK. He hid everything he was doing from everyone who knew him. He didn't just fly off the handle and start mowing people down. I think that indicates a fairly good level of control.

jada887 wrote:

Has anyone ever doubted that Eric/Dylan thought they would die by police fire?

I don't think they cared if it was suicide by cop or they did it themselves. Killing themselves was always an option for them, as well. So much so that they included it as one of the hand signals that they would give to each other if the need arose (finger gun to the head).

thelmar wrote:

jada887 wrote:

Has anyone ever doubted that Eric/Dylan thought they would die by police fire?

I don't think they cared if it was suicide by cop or they did it themselves. Killing themselves was always an option for them, as well. So much so that they included it as one of the hand signals that they would give to each other if the need arose (finger gun to the head).

Nobody doubts they wanted to kill cops/die by cop until I say they didn't roam the halls because they were sad and full of regret or because they wanted extra revenge on the school by shooting lockers, but because they were looking for cops, and it's silly to think they didn't think cops were in the building just because we know they weren't.  

I kid, but barely.

By the fact that they committed suicide and that they had a hand signal for it, suicide was definitely an option. I wouldn't go so far as to say it shows they didn't care one way or the other. I think they definitely preferred if someone or something else did it for them. Aside from the apparent allusions to death by cop, I would point to Dylan's (and apparently Eric's as well) reluctance to commit suicide pre-massacre and their trying to make the bombs explode on the CCTV when they would have died had they succeeded.

thelmar wrote:

There are definitely people who liked Eric, but there are more that reported thinking he was weird, angry, and scary. My point is, that Cullen is implying that everybody liked Eric, that he was popular. That just isn't the case.

You stated that very few people liked Eric. That's not true. There were plenty of people who knew and liked Eric, including Brooks Brown (most of the time). Eric's provocative behavior isn't unusual for people with antisocial tendencies.

thelmar wrote:

If he was supposed to be so good at hiding his evil/violent side, fitting in and not bringing attention to this part of himself, how come everyone knew he had the potential to be violent?

No, that's not quite true for psychopaths. Dave Cullen is wrong on this point; there are psychopaths who do not fly under the radar and are known threats to both law enforcement, the general public, and close family members and friends. Alfred Fish and Henry Lee Lucas are two prominent examples that come to mind. It isn't shocking knowledge that everyone knew Eric was the culprit. I am more surprised that everyone was shocked by Dylan's participation. Eric and Dylan did everything together, even break into a van and commit juvenile misdemeanors. Is it any wonder that Dylan would join in?

thelmar wrote:

If you subscribe to Fuselier's (and by extension, Cullen's) description of a psychopath, all emotional responses by a psychopath are faked. They mimic the responses of others to get along, to not stand out. They feel emotions only shallowly, if at all. They are incapable of having any real depth of feeling, even for family members and friends. So, for a psychopath to be yukking it up with his friends, he'd have to be faking, according to Fuselier and Cullen. My point is, I don't believe this based upon what I see in those videos.

That is not true. Psychopaths on the lower-side of the checklist (below 40, but above 30) are capable of genuine emotion. They can laugh, love and cry like everyone, and may even feel remorse, but those feelings are fleeting (as you ironically point out). There is no evidence that Eric had strong, meaningful friendships or lasting romantic courtships. According to Kass, he had on again and off again friendships with everyone that knew him, except for Dylan. He was bitter at parties and not a fun drinker, like Dylan. He sounds like a pain in the ass, which according to Devon Adams, he was for much of his life. Again, not unusual, antisocial behavior.

thelmar wrote:

Agreed. There's no evidence that, other than writing aggressive things, that he was overtly aggressive until the last year of his life. Certainly people thought he had the potential for violence but he wasn't actually committing violent or aggressive acts until that last year. Cullen implying so is misleading because there is nothing to back that up.  

Again, there's no evidence either way. He had the potential for violence, and that's why I have a hard to time believing that this behavior came out of the blue. Psychopathy usually manifests itself in early childhood. All I know about Eric's early life is the one interview I conducted with his childhood friend in New York, who stated that Eric already had a preoccupation with fire and destruction. He almost burned his own house down, but his friend thinks it was an accident (although he said he wasn't sure). I regret I didn't press him on this point (I had to finish my college thesis and ran out of time), but other than that, I don't know. There's so little available evidence. That doesn't mean it wasn't there. There's just not much to analyze.

thelmar wrote:

Lots of people do things they feel guilt and shame about. Drug addicts, theives, spousal abusers, child abusers, etc... Just because these people don't stop themselves does not mean they are all psychopaths.

They may feel guilty about what they are doing, but they cannot control their impulses, which are stronger than their consciences.

thelmar wrote:

Poor impulse control can occur from other mental health conditions. But Eric subdued his "impulses" for a year while he was planning NBK. He hid everything he was doing from everyone who knew him. He didn't just fly off the handle and start mowing people down. I think that indicates a fairly good level of control.

No. It indicates that he had a very narrow time horizon. It indicates that he had preoccupation with his fantasies and was unable to focus his attention on other things, like his future. And yes, I agree. Impulsiveness is a symptom in other mental health disorders. Borderline personality disorder is one of them. However, Dr. Albert has never published his findings or agreed to an interview, so we don't know what he thought of Eric's behavior.[/quote]

jada887 wrote:

You stated that very few people liked Eric. That's not true. There were plenty of people who knew and liked Eric, including Brooks Brown (most of the time). Eric's provocative behavior isn't unusual for people with antisocial tendencies.

You're right, this was a poor choice of words on my part. What I meant to convey was not that no one liked Eric but that he wasn't this widely popular guy, and that he was even actively disliked/ not trusted by some people who knew him in more than just a passing way.

jada887 wrote:

No, that's not quite true for psychopaths. Dave Cullen is wrong on this point; there are psychopaths who do not fly under the radar and are known threats to both law enforcement, the general public, and close family members and friends. Alfred Fish and Henry Lee Lucas are two prominent examples that come to mind. It isn't shocking knowledge that everyone knew Eric was the culprit. I am more surprised that everyone was shocked by Dylan's participation. Eric and Dylan did everything together, even break into a van and commit juvenile misdemeanors. Is it any wonder that Dylan would join in?

jada887 wrote:

That is not true. Psychopaths on the lower-side of the checklist (below 40, but above 30) are capable of genuine emotion. They can laugh, love and cry like everyone, and may even feel remorse, but those feelings are fleeting (as you ironically point out). There is no evidence that Eric had strong, meaningful friendships or lasting romantic courtships. According to Kass, he had on again and off again friendships with everyone that knew him, except for Dylan. He was bitter at parties and not a fun drinker, like Dylan. He sounds like a pain in the ass, which according to Devon Adams, he was for much of his life. Again, not unusual, antisocial behavior.

In defense of Cullen (did I just say that?!), I believe that the majority of things he writes about psychopathy he is just regurgitating from what he heard from Dwayne Fuselier. And while I know little about psychology, in the reading I've done about psychopathy for this and other cases, I believe that Fuselier has a much looser interpretation of what constitutes a psychopath than a lot of other mental health professionals. So instead of saying Cullen says this or that, I probably should be saying Fuselier told Cullen this or that.

jada887 wrote:

No. It indicates that he had a very narrow time horizon. It indicates that he had preoccupation with his fantasies and was unable to focus his attention on other things, like his future. And yes, I agree. Impulsiveness is a symptom in other mental health disorders. Borderline personality disorder is one of them. However, Dr. Albert has never published his findings or agreed to an interview, so we don't know what he thought of Eric's behavior.

I'd like to hear more of your opinion on this. I don't see the planning of NBK as interfering with Eric's ability to focus on other things. Just that thinking of other things was no longer necessary. I feel that for both Eric and Dylan, once they were more seriously into developing their plan, they had effectively decided that they would be committing suicide. Planning for the future wasn't needed because there would be no future. They put up appearances as though life would continue after Columbine, but for the most part they knew that there wouldn't be. I think along the way both of them probably could have been talked down from their plan, probably Dylan more than Eric. I'm interested in your view that the NBK planning itself was in some way a manifestation of Eric's mental health condition.
And as for Dr. Albert, his refusal to provide the Harrises with Eric's medical records will always make me wonder if he is hiding some negligence on his own.