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 Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?

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PostSubject: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeSat Feb 02, 2019 8:14 pm

I know Cullen isn't well liked around here, but do you have plans on reading his book on the Parkland shooting?

Myself, I'm probably just gonna wait and see what people will say about it. His book on Columbine came out many years after it happened, while this book on Parkland only came out a year after, and there is still some information on the shooting itself that hasn't been released yet.

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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeSat Feb 02, 2019 8:27 pm

It does seem a little too early. I would be interested in a book about the trial and stuff like that which hasn’t even begun yet!!

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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeSat Feb 02, 2019 9:49 pm

If it included new specific details regarding the event itself (cause of death for the victims, uncensored interviews with first responders etc.) I'd definitely read it. If it didn't offer anything other than info from the news and Cullen's perspective I probably wouldn't.
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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeSat Feb 02, 2019 9:50 pm

Btw, has anyone checked out Parkland Speaks ? It came out pretty recently and apparently has a bunch of first person accounts from the shooting.
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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeSat Feb 02, 2019 10:01 pm

I would like to see Cullens perspective of Nick and girls since he thinks Eric was a ladies man....

I’m pretty sure Nicholas Cruz is not the stereotypical angry virgin

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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeSat Feb 02, 2019 10:37 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I would like to see Cullens  perspective of Nick and  girls since he thinks Eric was a ladies man....

I’m pretty sure Nicholas Cruz is not the stereotypical angry virgin
Well from what I heard he had a g/f, but they broke up.
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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeSat Feb 02, 2019 11:42 pm

No. I've heard that it's not even going to be directly about the shooting or Nikolas Cruz, draining me of any desire to read it even if it wasn't written by Dave Cullen.

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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeSun Feb 03, 2019 12:24 am

Yeah.... no. I'll be interested to read people correcting him though!
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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeSun Feb 03, 2019 1:55 pm

No. I'd still buy it though, if I ran out of toilet paper or firewood.
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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeMon Feb 04, 2019 3:29 am

Yes, for the lulz. But I'm not going to pay for it.

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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeMon Feb 04, 2019 8:11 pm

It seems it's going to be more focused on the anti-gun activists that emerged after Parkland which Cullen has praised in the past. I don't have anything to add on Cullen and everyone here knows well..my dislike of the conduct of the likes of Hogg and González so No I'm not really interested in reading Cullen's Parkland book but however I would be interested in seeing other people tear it to shreds.
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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeTue Feb 05, 2019 6:08 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
It seems it's going to be more focused on the anti-gun activists that emerged after Parkland which Cullen has praised in the past. I don't have anything to add on Cullen and everyone here knows well..my dislike of the conduct of the likes of Hogg and González so No I'm not really interested in reading Cullen's Parkland book but however I would be interested in seeing other people tear it to shreds.
Yes,really, I can't stand either of those two assholes.
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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeWed Feb 13, 2019 9:26 pm

I just began reading the book, and I already want to quit.

"The mass murderer walked to the Walmart half a mile away, and bought a drink at the Subway inside the store. That was rare. Few perpetrators escape mass shootings alive. Police officers arrested him there about an hour later, at 3:41."

I'm sorry, but what? Cruz wasn't arrested at the Walmart. I'm already not liking this book.

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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeWed Feb 13, 2019 9:42 pm

In my online book club someone posted really loving the book so far. And they were all talking about how much they loved Columbine and how well written it was.

So I commented “hey? Did Nic get chicks, lots of chicks? “

Only one person got the reference Sad

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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 14, 2019 12:31 am

@School Massacre Archives wrote:
I just began reading the book, and I already want to quit.

"The mass murderer walked to the Walmart half a mile away, and bought a drink at the Subway inside the store. That was rare. Few perpetrators escape mass shootings alive. Police officers arrested him there about an hour later, at 3:41."

I'm sorry, but what? Cruz wasn't arrested at the Walmart. I'm already not liking this book.

That's a glaring mistake. How did Cullen even make this one?
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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 14, 2019 12:54 am

hvernon wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I just began reading the book, and I already want to quit.

"The mass murderer walked to the Walmart half a mile away, and bought a drink at the Subway inside the store. That was rare. Few perpetrators escape mass shootings alive. Police officers arrested him there about an hour later, at 3:41."

I'm sorry, but what? Cruz wasn't arrested at the Walmart. I'm already not liking this book.

That's a glaring mistake. How did Cullen even make this one?

Dunno, but I think that just kinda proves that Cullen is more focused on the activists rather than the shooting itself.

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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 14, 2019 11:30 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
hvernon wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I just began reading the book, and I already want to quit.

"The mass murderer walked to the Walmart half a mile away, and bought a drink at the Subway inside the store. That was rare. Few perpetrators escape mass shootings alive. Police officers arrested him there about an hour later, at 3:41."

I'm sorry, but what? Cruz wasn't arrested at the Walmart. I'm already not liking this book.

That's a glaring mistake. How did Cullen even make this one?

Dunno, but I think that just kinda proves that Cullen is more focused on the activists rather than the shooting itself.

In that excerpt he doesn't even mention Cruz's name. I think it's clear he's trying to pander to that "No Notoriety" crap, and I'm having none of it. Even if he got every detail right I'd never pick the book up for this reason alone.

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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 14, 2019 11:39 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
hvernon wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I just began reading the book, and I already want to quit.

"The mass murderer walked to the Walmart half a mile away, and bought a drink at the Subway inside the store. That was rare. Few perpetrators escape mass shootings alive. Police officers arrested him there about an hour later, at 3:41."

I'm sorry, but what? Cruz wasn't arrested at the Walmart. I'm already not liking this book.

That's a glaring mistake. How did Cullen even make this one?

Dunno, but I think that just kinda proves that Cullen is more focused on the activists rather than the shooting itself.

In that excerpt he doesn't even mention Cruz's name. I think it's clear he's trying to pander to that "No Notoriety" crap, and I'm having none of it. Even if he got every detail right I'd never pick the book up for this reason alone.

How soon he forgets that he turned Eric into a psychopathic ladies man who outscored the football team. Nope, that doesn’t give notoriety to him at all... No one will ever remember who Eric Harris is... Rolling Eyes

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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeSun Feb 17, 2019 9:18 am

..


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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeSun Feb 17, 2019 9:22 am

(In other terms no, I'm not gonna give him money to spread garbage. But I do hope someone bares through it to rip him a new one about it!)
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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 28, 2019 11:56 am

I bought it and read the first few pages. He refuses to mention Nikolas Cruz’s name and even says that he is of little significance. I was really hoping Cullen would pick apart Nik’s confession and videos, as well as his troubled past, and the shooting itself. But in those first few pages he made it very clear that the book is going to be about the aftermath of the shooting and the march for our lives movement. Very disappointing.
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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 28, 2019 2:18 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 28, 2019 7:40 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I bought it and read the first few pages. He refuses to mention Nikolas Cruz’s name and even says that he is of little significance. I was really hoping Cullen would pick apart Nik’s confession and videos, as well as his troubled past, and the shooting itself. But in those first few pages he made it very clear that the book is going to be about the aftermath of the shooting and the march for our lives movement. Very disappointing.
I wonder if he mentions the skinhead Emma Gonzalez?
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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeThu Mar 07, 2019 1:20 am

I won an early copy of Parkland on Goodreads, and it's the strangest book I've ever read.

Took me days to get through the prologue. It was incoherent and bizarre. I'm a professional writer, so I am completely biased, but I am normally able to read books I don't like when I need the information, but this one was just not well-written and the style is so strange, it makes me think he didn't write Columbine by himself. I realized earlier today that much of Columbine came almost verbatim from his news articles published on Salon.com, so now I wonder if he had serious help from the start. But that's another subject.

I am not more than 70 pages into this book and I've already found lots of gems that just sound so strange it makes me stop and put the book down for days before I can pick it up again.

If I keep getting tripped up by page 100, I'm giving it to Goodwill.

Here are just a few gems:

Opening paragraph in the prologue:

"Gun country. Half the country. Fighting them, provoking them, alarming them, was doomed to failure, more failure, decades of failure-they had to try something new. They had to engage them. So Jackie Corin had come to North Carolina six weeks after escaping her high school, but she was scared. It was just one guy. One guy was all it took. "It was nerve-racking, because there was a guy staring me down and..." He was an older white guy with gray hair under an NRA cap. "An average-looking grandpa," she said. "He just had a blank stare on his face the whole time, like I couldn't tell if he was there to hear us out or he was coming to make some chaos."

[Took me a while to figure out he was talking about a survivor speaking on stage]

From page 35:

"Cameron vented on Facebook, too, starting with "I'm safe." He wrote that on the ride home, to his mom's home, with his dad, Jeff Kasky. Jeff didn't live there, but was determined to ensure Cam got home safe. It was a friendly divorce, and the Kasky boys live with their mom, Natalie Weiss, and her husband, Craig. But Natalie and Craig were on a cruise vacation."

[Just odd sentence structure]

"Cameron said he had to go and then Jeff called, and then the FBI, and they had all sorts of questions, like "Was your child there? "Whom can you reach?" "Whom can you speak to?" and she didn't know anything. She kept thinking, "Whenever you get hurt, you fall, you're a kid, you want mom." So she was failing as a mom. She couldn't shake the thought, until something scarier occurred to her: "I'm so far away, but all [the parents] are too far." She thought about dads she knew who would have run recklessly into the school. None of them could have helped. "I feel like it has to be forgiven. We had moms that were at work, moms that were at home, and nowhere was close enough."

[I am just bewildered here, whaaaat?]

From page 46:

"And Pippy-legally Kaylyn Pipitone, but bobody called her that-was a born mom, and man, could they use one of those right now. They all had moms, but moms didn't always understand. Amazing to have a make-believe mom, who was one of them."

[I find this description completely bizarre]

From page 61:

“Jackie’s dad, Paul Corin, watched Jackie manage the chaos in disbelief. She’d always been a go-getter, he said, but this? “I’m in awe,” he said. “Of my own daughter. I want to take her when she gets back to get her DNA tested, because I saw her come out of my wife, but I’m not sure I could produce this.”

[I have no words for this passage]

From page 65:

"It was a wearying ride to Tallahassee, with three rest stops and lots of bladder issues."



0/10, would not recommend.


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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeThu Mar 07, 2019 2:24 am

Yeah, I dunno what Cullen was thinking when he wrote this.

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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeThu Mar 07, 2019 12:10 pm

I don't think he was thinking. How could he get the arrest details wrong? I didn't even catch that. Wow. Well, we know he is not and never was a journalist. He had no experience prior to covering Columbine. So naturally he wouldn't know how to investigate facts. He wasn't trained to interview people and get the real scoop. He just kinda went in on his own and dove in and became a DIY journalist.

I follow him on Facebook, and all he does is post selfies - some shirtless - and talk about how darn good looking he is and how he's promoting his new book, and I've yet to see any mention of the MFOL kids in his posts since the release of his book... he loves being a two-time best selling author and now he's not a "one hit wonder," but what does that mean other than a bunch of people jumped to buy his book when it was released... doesn't make it a good book.

Regardless, people love this stuff and I will never understand why.

I posted excerpts to Facebook without saying what the book was and people on my F-list (authors included) were basically in agreement with each other that whatever book I was quoting was atrocious.

This book drags out the scenes of the kids and their "birth of a movement" and stretches them so far, he had to resort to writing details about "bladder issues" and other strange things I didn't even post here!

By page 70, I've just barely gotten an idea of what the "movement" is about and how it started. That's what the book is supposed to be about.

He focused so much on the details of unimportant things like describing a silent room beyond "the room was silent." And he recreated dialogue as well. I don't know any human who would say they want to get their daughter's DNA tested because they saw her come out of his wife but they don't think they could produce that. (That sentence went on and gets stranger, btw).

If anyone's ever read Steinbeck, you know he loved his details... well if you thought Grapes of Wrath was boring reading about dust for 8 pages...

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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeThu Mar 14, 2019 12:13 pm

The book seems too politically biased so I’m not interested.

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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeMon Apr 20, 2020 7:46 am

Limited amount of cash, so the answer to it is 'no'.

Whats good about Parkland is that people have now focused more on survivors instead of the perpetrator. I can't help but think that they are truly inspiring to resist the amount of hate and slander against them in the face of them trying to push for social change. It kind of puzzles me that so many americans do not connect the dots, when there are more school shootings in the US than elsewhere, and the US gun legislation is actually more laxed than any other country. Canada and Australia had similar mass shootings and they did something with access to firearms. Its interesting that, apparently, it worked.

But thats just my opinion, and of course, its not the only factor. Yet, to my knowledge, many of these school shooters have picked up a gun from their homes, that bellonged to the parents. Isnt it kind of obvious?

Im not trying to force a certain standard onto how the US should deal with firearms. But I do agree that they belong in the conversation, along with anything else related to the issue. I highly doubt that it's truly about responsible gun owners, as a lot of countries have access to firearms. I believe that it's more about the people that shouldnt have the right to obtain them.
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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeMon Apr 20, 2020 7:50 am

But with regards to Columbine, I think Cullen is better than what some people give him credit for, but Im also critical of treating the book as definite(if there is ever such a thing).
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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeMon Apr 20, 2020 11:32 am

I read parts of it and it seems kind of boring.
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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeTue Apr 21, 2020 12:18 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I won an early copy of Parkland on Goodreads, and it's the strangest book I've ever read.

Took me days to get through the prologue. It was incoherent and bizarre. I'm a professional writer, so I am completely biased, but I am normally able to read books I don't like when I need the information, but this one was just not well-written and the style is so strange, it makes me think he didn't write Columbine by himself. I realized earlier today that much of Columbine came almost verbatim from his news articles published on Salon.com, so now I wonder if he had serious help from the start. But that's another subject.

I am not more than 70 pages into this book and I've already found lots of gems that just sound so strange it makes me stop and put the book down for days before I can pick it up again.

It literally sounds from those quotes like he was drunk when he wrote this.
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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeTue Apr 21, 2020 2:43 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Whats good about Parkland is that people have now focused more on survivors instead of the perpetrator.

Why is that good? The victims were normal people who were in the wrong place at the wrong time. There's nothing about them that I can't go literally anywhere on planet Earth and see and hear with my own eyes and ears. Are their deaths tragic, unnecessary, and painful? Yes. Does that mean we should pay more attention to them rather than on the perpetrator, who's the entire reason their lives were cut short? Absolutely not.

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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeTue Apr 21, 2020 3:36 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Whats good about Parkland is that people have now focused more on survivors instead of the perpetrator.

Why is that good? The victims were normal people who were in the wrong place at the wrong time. There's nothing about them that I can't go literally anywhere on planet Earth and see and hear with my own eyes and ears. Are their deaths tragic, unnecessary, and painful? Yes. Does that mean we should pay more attention to them rather than on the perpetrator, who's the entire reason their lives were cut short? Absolutely not.

Any old asshole can murder people, you know. It doesn't make them special. Any what focus should perps have in the media? I think the perp behind the parkland shooting was rightfully forgotten or swept to the side.

Now being a political activist, that's something that can be good.
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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeTue Apr 21, 2020 3:48 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Why is that good? The victims were normal people who were in the wrong place at the wrong time. There's nothing about them that I can't go literally anywhere on planet Earth and see and hear with my own eyes and ears. Are their deaths tragic, unnecessary, and painful? Yes. Does that mean we should pay more attention to them rather than on the perpetrator, who's the entire reason their lives were cut short? Absolutely not.

And their families always say the exact same things about them too. I told my husband the other day, if I ever get murdered, he is absolutely forbidden from telling the news that I "lit up a room" or "would give someone the shirt off my back" (neither of which are true anyway hahaha).

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Any old asshole can murder people, you know. It doesn't make them special. Any what focus should perps have in the media? I think the perp behind the parkland shooting was rightfully forgotten or swept to the side.

Now being a political activist, that's something that can be good.

Factually speaking, he definitely wasn't forgotten or swept to the side. There's a new story about Nikolas Cruz in the news every few weeks, and the attack happened over two years ago. He's not even interesting/weird as far as rampage killers go, either. But, the news coverage is highlighting the many years of institutional incompetence and gaps in the system that led to his many extremely obvious warning signs being missed. So, if you want to know why it's important for perpetrators to be focused on...well, that's one reason.

Plus, if someone thinks perpetrators shouldn't be focused on by the media/public...isn't that the exact opposite of the mindset that leads one to join a true crime forum about rampage killers?
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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeTue Apr 21, 2020 3:55 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Plus, if someone thinks perpetrators shouldn't be focused on by the media/public...isn't that the exact opposite of the mindset that leads one to join a true crime forum about rampage killers?

Oh I think of this board and focusing on Columbine as vices of mine. It's not good for me but I do it anyways.

Cruz didn't get the same kind of coverage as Eric and Dylan did and that's a good thing.
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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeTue Apr 21, 2020 5:01 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Any old asshole can murder people, you know. It doesn't make them special.

That's so blatantly false it defies belief. The murder rate in primitive caveman times was estimated to be about 15%, and that's including war. If we assume a 1:1 murder victim to murder perpetrator rate, that's fifteen out of a hundred people who are capable of committing murder. Really though, the ratio would likely be more like 2 or 3 to 1, since we know that many murderers kill more than one people. So being generous here, it's more like 10% of people who are capable of homicide. Of course we also don't know how many people killed simply to defend themselves and/or others, or who killed to avenge what people hundreds of thousands of years ago would see as a crime. This could drop the real murder rate by several more percentage points. I again remind you that this is during the cavemen times, where there was no central government to prevent crime, working plumbing, heat, or even consistent food/shelter, disease was rampant, and the average human being knew only basic survival skills at best and lacked anything more than spears and rocks to defend themselves with.

Meanwhile here and now in the 21st century the rate of homicide, including those caused by war, has plummeted so far it barely reaches 0.1%.

With all this in mind I respectfully disagree with the notion that "any asshole" can kill people. The data suggests homicide is extremely aberrant behavior even in extreme circumstances and that as many as 90-95% of people are uncapable of killing except in self-defense.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Now being a political activist, that's something that can be good.

Usually it's something that's atrocious because all politics regardless of ideology is about conformity. In this case the political activists want to steal the right to defend yourself using a firearm. If you think that's good I have nothing more to say.

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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeTue Apr 21, 2020 10:44 pm

I dont think it's entirely true that they want to 'steal your guns away'. I think thats a narrative US gun enthusiasts to a large extent believe.

Yet, look at how countries outside the US are treating this issue. Guns arent banned, but access to them are heavily restricted. Ive yet to see anyone argue that guns should be illegal. If anything I suspect that people want restrictions, as we know that access to firearms are more accessible in the US than in other countries.
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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeTue Apr 21, 2020 10:50 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Yet, look at how countries outside the US are treating this issue. Guns arent banned, but access to them are heavily restricted.

Considering how many restrictions those countries have, they might as well be banned.

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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeWed Apr 22, 2020 4:43 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Yet, look at how countries outside the US are treating this issue. Guns arent banned, but access to them are heavily restricted.

Considering how many restrictions those countries have, they might as well be banned.

I live in Europe. Not an expert on firearms, but I think some restrictions are needed for a society to survive. I just dont understand why guns should be allowed for people that are not capable of possessing firearms. I think some experts have argued that in cases like these, oftentimes they take guns from their parents house to use them on fellow classmates. If we can limit the access that they have to guns, I certainly think we have atleast done something.
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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeWed Apr 22, 2020 11:21 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I live in Europe.

I take it Norway specifically based on your username?

My question to you is that if you had reason to fear for your life, would you like a gun for self protection? If yes, then how easily could you acquire one?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Not an expert on firearms, but I think some restrictions are needed for a society to survive.

Well here in the States we unironicically, seriously have more guns than people, and so far we're still standing. This aside there are more unstable countries out there with high gun ownership rates (mostly of illegal guns), and while many of them are shitholes I wouldn't exactly call them failed states.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I just dont understand why guns should be allowed for people that are not capable of possessing firearms.

They aren't. People get this idea of America as some sort of Wild West when it comes to guns, that everyone and their mother can go to a store and buy a machinegun. The truth is that most states require you to undergo a background check if you're trying to purchase a weapon (at least from a licensed dealer). You cannot legally own a gun if you have a criminal record or have been institutionalized.

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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeWed Apr 22, 2020 2:23 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

Usually it's something that's atrocious because all politics regardless of ideology is about conformity. In this case the political activists want to steal the right to defend yourself using a firearm. If you think that's good I have nothing more to say.

Lol you really can't comprehend why someone would want the murder rate in the US to be lower? You're not as smart as you think you are.
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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeWed Apr 22, 2020 2:24 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Yet, look at how countries outside the US are treating this issue. Guns arent banned, but access to them are heavily restricted.

Considering how many restrictions those countries have, they might as well be banned.

They also have lower murder rates than the US. Then again you think murder is cool and edgy and should be encouraged.
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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeSun Apr 26, 2020 9:28 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Lol you really can't comprehend why someone would want the murder rate in the US to be lower? You're not as smart as you think you are.

The question isn't whether it would be a good thing if the murder rate was lower. The question is if the proposed measures a) would actually do anything, and b) are constitutional. I don't know enough about constitutional law to answer the latter of those questions, so, we'll leave that one to the courts.

As for whether it's effective, we have already tried this once before. According to studies, the 1994 assault weapons ban in the US did not have any effect on the murder rate: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] (And this is being stated by the NYTimes, of all sources!)

A lot of rampage attacks are carried out without even using guns, also. One of the worst rampage attacks was the 2016 Nice truck attack which killed 86 people. The only way to stop attacks of that nature is to ban vehicles. Who's to say non-gun attacks wouldn't increase in the US if guns were restricted?

One possibility that people fail to think of is whether the increased rate of violence in the US has to do with other socioeconomic factors, rather than just access to guns. There are other countries with more relaxed gun laws, like Switzerland, with low levels of gun violence, so clearly access to guns isn't the only factor here.

Also, people seem to think of "US gun laws" as one defined thing, when they actually vary significantly by state. My state's gun laws are actually stricter than Canada's, for example.
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PostSubject: Re: Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book?   Would you read Dave Cullen's 'Parkland' book? Icon_minitimeMon Apr 27, 2020 7:09 am

I dont think it should be about banning firearms entirely. But working on the problems from different angles. You made firearms illegal, you have only attacked it from one angle. Yet, you have to get into the how and why and how can society create effective meassures from there. Not just one thing
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