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Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum
A place to discuss the Columbine High School Massacre along with other school shootings and crimes. Anyone interested in researching, learning, discussing and debating with us, please come join our community!
Posts : 3031 Contribution Points : 94446 Forum Reputation : 774 Join date : 2013-03-13 Location : A place where it always snows.
Subject: I don't get it? Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:56 am
General questions about the massacre, post them here.
_________________ "Someday, you will ache like I ache".
Subject: Re: I don't get it? Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:58 am
Should be pinned. Doing now.
Subject: Re: I don't get it? Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:39 pm
The March 15th Basement Tapes quote: "Eric goes on to describe a "25 pound bag of #8 buckshot" which is inside the dresser, but isn't shown on the tape."
I thought nothing of it until I was reading up more on their firearms and explosives. But upon further research... there is no such thing as #8 buckshot. Only #8 birdshot. An honest mistake, maybe.
But I mean, if you're intending to kill like 95% of your school's attendants, you'd think that one would know what type of ammunition they're going to be using, especially if they likely bought it/and/or participated in buying it themselves, eh?
The difference between #8 birdshot and, say, 00 buckshot is actually quite large.
Birdshot, because of its small size, does not have the mass and sectional density to penetrate deeply enough to reliably reach and damage critical blood distribution organs. Although birdshot can destroy a great volume of tissue at close range, the permanent crush cavity is usually less than 6 inches deep, and this is not deep enough to reliably include the heart or great blood vessels of the abdomen. A gruesome, shallow wound in the torso does not guarantee a quick stop, especially if the bad guy is chemically intoxicated or psychotic. If the tissue crushed by the pellets does not include a vital cardiovascular structure there's no reason for it to be an effective wound.
Many people load their shotguns with birdshot, usually #6 shot or smaller, to minimize interior wall penetration. Number 6 lead birdshot, when propelled at 1300 fps, has a maximum penetration depth potential of about 5 inches in standard ordnance gelatin. Not all of the pellets penetrate this deeply however; most of the shot will penetrate about 4 inches.
Their aim was to kill and maim, why use ammo designed to NOT damage the walls and such?
According to this chart, Shot Number/Type| |Pellet Diameter (in inches)| |Average Pellet Weight (in grains)|
#8 Birdshot: .09 | 1.07 |
00 Buckshot: .33 | 53.8 |
I wonder if he had no clue, was just makin' it up (the bag was never shown in the tapes), Or if maybe #8 was all that was available at the time? I guess it's also a possibility that they used the powder for their pipe bombs, but I doubt that.
Edit: Does anyone have a link or source that states what type of ammunition was found on their bodies/empty shells located around the grounds?
I probably waaaayyyy over-thought & over-analyzed this...
Subject: Re: I don't get it? Tue May 21, 2013 10:46 pm
The shot can be purchased for reloading (making your own ammunition) purposes.
He probably had a bag of shot to put into pipe bombs as shrapnel. I don't know why he would have #8 specifically, rather than a larger size buck shot. Maybe it was all he could get his hands on at the time. Hell, BB's for air rifles are larger than #8
#8 is usually used for birds, small game, or trap (clay) shooting. Although people do use game loads and bird shot for home defense. Like renegade said, the pellets wont penetrate walls effeciently, minimizing the danger to other occupants that may be in the house, business, structure, etc.
***Ammo pouch in Hallway Outside Library reference:
CBI 29/JCSO 1273 [1 Green Pouch with 5 Live Rounds Federal 00 Buck 2 3/4" shot shells + 2 Federal #8 shot X-Lite/Trap 2 3/4" shot shells],
CHS/Vehicles: CBI 987/JCSO 4619 [Federal Maximum High Shock Slug 2 3/4"] - Harris' Grey Honda rear view mirror
So, apparently there were 2 fired #8 shot shells found outside [1 was on the upper stairway & 1 was by the chain link fence where Eric/Dylan were standing] & 2 live #8 shot shells found in the main hallway. Only 4 rounds of #8 shot that I have found so far.
Subject: Re: I don't get it? Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:20 pm
I may be jumping the gun here (no pun intended), but do we find out whose car park spaces Eric and Dylan used on 04/20? I've not read my way through all the 11k yet, but I keep reading people saying they were parked in THEIR (as in, another student's) spot, and it's definitely been more than two people claiming that. Anyone know for sure? Thanks!
Just to add to this point: On 4/20 Dylan parked his car in space #120, this space belonged to Mary Glass who left the school for lunch that day at 11:15. pg(25379) Eric parked in space #371 pg(1537) the student who parks in space #370 advised IO's that this space is normally empty. He believed the student "Liza" who is assigned space #371 is often absent.
Edit: I assume this is the same Mary Glass in the 9th Grade year book, ironically on the same page as Eric Harris: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Subject: Re: I don't get it? Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:07 am
Can anyone, (prolly alpha) point me to where in the released documents it shows Eric's letter to ID software?