| Is Brooks actually a liar? | |
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+11Jenn bradt93 cakeman UncontinuedProcess Pixie13 slippy123 Lizpuff Lunkhead McGrath gyro Screamingophelia andthentherewas1 15 posters |
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andthentherewas1
Posts : 53 Contribution Points : 59836 Forum Reputation : 25 Join date : 2019-01-28 Location : America
| Subject: Is Brooks actually a liar? Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:48 pm | |
| Okay so what do you guys think of Brooks? I hear that this website is split on him. Some say he really is telling the truth and is broken by Columbine and is healing. Others say he lied on so many things just to get attention and said he was best friends with Eric and Dylan. I think he is telling the truth but on some accounts he could be lying. Heck, I even read this part in the 11K were his creative writing teacher said he "Tends to lie alot". | |
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Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6449 Contribution Points : 198703 Forum Reputation : 1327 Join date : 2017-08-26 Age : 37
| Subject: Re: Is Brooks actually a liar? Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:03 am | |
| - andthentherewas1 wrote:
- Okay so what do you guys think of Brooks? I hear that this website is split on him. Some say he really is telling the truth and is broken by Columbine and is healing. Others say he lied on so many things just to get attention and said he was best friends with Eric and Dylan. I think he is telling the truth but on some accounts he could be lying. Heck, I even read this part in the 11K were his creative writing teacher said he "Tends to lie alot".
Did brooks mention the interaction with Eric on his 911 call? I think brooks exaggerates and lies. The thing is I’m not sure when he’s actually telling the truth or exaggerating or blatantly lying. He never deviated from his story about Eric, But some people who were checking the timeline says it doesn’t overly make sense. _________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
Last edited by Screamingophelia on Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:02 am; edited 1 time in total | |
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andthentherewas1
Posts : 53 Contribution Points : 59836 Forum Reputation : 25 Join date : 2019-01-28 Location : America
| Subject: Re: Is Brooks actually a liar? Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:26 am | |
| I think he could be both kindda. | |
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gyro
Posts : 40 Contribution Points : 57690 Forum Reputation : 28 Join date : 2018-10-18
| Subject: Re: Is Brooks actually a liar? Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:18 am | |
| I'm 50-50 with him. There could be things he's lied about to save face or they could just straight up be the truth. There seems to be quite a bit of people calling Brooks a liar. For me, I don't believe Brooks has told the whole story of his interaction with Eric. Just the whole "Brooks, I like you now. Go home." And he obeyed without questioning anything? I just find that a bit strange | |
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Lunkhead McGrath
Posts : 490 Contribution Points : 81911 Forum Reputation : 325 Join date : 2016-11-03
| Subject: Re: Is Brooks actually a liar? Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:01 am | |
| This subject has come up a billion times and my answer to it is always the same: I wish to God I could somehow objectively go back and time and prove that the anecdote in No Easy Answers about Brooks confronting Principal DeAngelis at graduation and upbraiding him for turning a blind eye to the school's culture of cruelty is a total howler of a lie.
I mean, I don't know that. But I wish I could time travel back and see it for sure. It just strikes me as....ugh, a lie.
But, it's also been pointed out that Brooks has never changed his story about "Brooks I like you now. Go home."
If he obeyed it without questioning it's probably because he'd had trouble with Eric before, i.e., "f*** you, I'm not paying for s***" and posting threats and addresses towards Brooks on his crappy website. | |
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Lizpuff
Posts : 2677 Contribution Points : 101499 Forum Reputation : 1190 Join date : 2016-03-02 Age : 36
| Subject: Re: Is Brooks actually a liar? Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:15 pm | |
| I do believe Brooks ran into Eric that day. However I do think he is a massive liar. If you read no easy answers he shifts the timeline quite a bit to make it seem he was closer to Eric and Dylan than he was. It isn't an overly huge lie but it is a lie
He also can seem to turn any conversation around to be about him. Fancy that _________________ Hold me now I need to feel complete Like I matter to the one I need
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andthentherewas1
Posts : 53 Contribution Points : 59836 Forum Reputation : 25 Join date : 2019-01-28 Location : America
| Subject: Re: Is Brooks actually a liar? Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:55 pm | |
| So who exatcully was the closest person to Eric and Dylan? | |
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Lizpuff
Posts : 2677 Contribution Points : 101499 Forum Reputation : 1190 Join date : 2016-03-02 Age : 36
| Subject: Re: Is Brooks actually a liar? Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:03 pm | |
| - andthentherewas1 wrote:
- So who exatcully was the closest person to Eric and Dylan?
After late 1998 who was close to Eric? Dylan. Who was close to Dylan? Eric. They pushed all others away. Some would argue Nate or Zach but at that point in time no one was all that close to them _________________ Hold me now I need to feel complete Like I matter to the one I need
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Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6449 Contribution Points : 198703 Forum Reputation : 1327 Join date : 2017-08-26 Age : 37
| Subject: Re: Is Brooks actually a liar? Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:06 pm | |
| - Lizpuff wrote:
- andthentherewas1 wrote:
- So who exatcully was the closest person to Eric and Dylan?
After late 1998 who was close to Eric? Dylan. Who was close to Dylan? Eric.
They pushed all others away. Some would argue Nate or Zach but at that point in time no one was all that close to them I concur 100% There are certainly people who thought they were very close to Dylan like Devon and Nate But Eric and Dylan were absolutely the closest. _________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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slippy123
Posts : 879 Contribution Points : 110738 Forum Reputation : 1235 Join date : 2015-08-25
| Subject: Re: Is Brooks actually a liar? Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:07 pm | |
| Brooks usually went out for smoke breaks during the school day, so I don't doubt that he ran into Eric. From his viewpoint he could see the whole parking lot so he probably did see Eric's car pulling in. His classmates said he did exaggerate a lot, which is probably true. But in the case of seeing Eric right before the shooting, I tend to think he's telling the truth. I don't see what he would get out of lying about Eric telling him to go home. It's been a long time since I've read his book, but I don't remember anything that stuck out as a lie or didn't sound right for the most part. | |
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Lizpuff
Posts : 2677 Contribution Points : 101499 Forum Reputation : 1190 Join date : 2016-03-02 Age : 36
| Subject: Re: Is Brooks actually a liar? Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:45 pm | |
| Brooks has stated multiple times that the windshield thing happened in 98 when it really happened in 97. The thing about that is that he wants to make it seem like they were friends. When in reality they had not been friends in years. If at all _________________ Hold me now I need to feel complete Like I matter to the one I need
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Pixie13
Posts : 176 Contribution Points : 62051 Forum Reputation : 270 Join date : 2018-09-08
| Subject: Re: Is Brooks actually a liar? Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:05 pm | |
| I skim read his book yesterday. It was interesting but there were parts I certainly felt he was embellishing. However, his last interaction with Eric does seem to have some truth in it. | |
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Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6449 Contribution Points : 198703 Forum Reputation : 1327 Join date : 2017-08-26 Age : 37
| Subject: Re: Is Brooks actually a liar? Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:09 pm | |
| - Lizpuff wrote:
- Brooks has stated multiple times that the windshield thing happened in 98 when it really happened in 97. The thing about that is that he wants to make it seem like they were friends. When in reality they had not been friends in years. If at all
Sue has even said time and time again that Brooks and Dylan were not friends since elementary school. Which made Judy coming to their house that day all the more perplexing. Kudos to Sue for not slapping her.... Or at the very least demanding she get off her property and go tend to her own family. _________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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UncontinuedProcess
Posts : 487 Contribution Points : 72382 Forum Reputation : 430 Join date : 2017-10-22
| Subject: Re: Is Brooks actually a liar? Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:30 am | |
| Despite everything and all the other stuff that has came out about Brooks, I do believe that he did ran Eric into that day and probably did talk with him for a bit. It's by far the most consistent story he has told relating to Columbine. I do wonder he did start walking home after Eric supposedly told him so? To say that Brooks had some foreknowledge about what was about to happen on that leans on the more conspiracy theory side of things plus I don't really see E&D going out their way to warn Brooks if he was indeed just an acquaintance than an actual friend. I suppose as suggested, Brooks wasn't in the mood with arguing with Eric that morning so decided to buzz off when told to, then again he did say once he heard the shooting, he instantly knew it had something to do with Eric but as typical with Brooks, this could be a straight up fallacy. Perhaps he saw more than he let on? The butt of a gun sticking out of a duffel bag, seeing Eric packing ammo and explosives at his car but now I'm just merely guessing now at this point. It's hard to say. | |
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slippy123
Posts : 879 Contribution Points : 110738 Forum Reputation : 1235 Join date : 2015-08-25
| Subject: Re: Is Brooks actually a liar? Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:44 am | |
| - UncontinuedProcess wrote:
- Despite everything and all the other stuff that has came out about Brooks, I do believe that he did ran Eric into that day and probably did talk with him for a bit. It's by far the most consistent story he has told relating to Columbine. I do wonder he did start walking home after Eric supposedly told him so? To say that Brooks had some foreknowledge about what was about to happen on that leans on the more conspiracy theory side of things plus I don't really see E&D going out their way to warn Brooks if he was indeed just an acquaintance than an actual friend. I suppose as suggested, Brooks wasn't in the mood with arguing with Eric that morning so decided to buzz off when told to, then again he did say once he heard the shooting, he instantly knew it had something to do with Eric but as typical with Brooks, this could be a straight up fallacy. Perhaps he saw more than he let on? The butt of a gun sticking out of a duffel bag, seeing Eric packing ammo and explosives at his car but now I'm just merely guessing now at this point. It's hard to say.
Well even if Brooks really didn't talk to or hang out with Eric much near the end, he still knew the type of person he was, and what he was capable of. Let's not forget Eric told the world that he wanted to kill Brooks on his website. I don't know about you, but if someone I knew as unstable (to say the least), who was brazen enough to put death threats about me in public view, was pulling duffel bags out of his car while telling me he likes me now, go home, you can only assume nothing good is about to happen. I sure as hell wouldn't of stuck around either. I think if Brooks came across Dylan instead of Eric, he probably would of asked more questions. Some people think he had prior knowledge, since he said he knew it was Eric right away, but he probably just put two and two together. Pulling out duffel bags, telling him to go home, and minutes later shots rang out. | |
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cakeman
Posts : 802 Contribution Points : 85922 Forum Reputation : 1491 Join date : 2018-07-27
| Subject: Re: Is Brooks actually a liar? Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:09 am | |
| It seems the aspect that really sets off the case being like a movie or other true crime drama which makes me skeptical. Then you toss in Brooks's reputation, it seems like he wouldn't be able to help but put himself in the story. I assume it happened, but I would not bet a dollar that it did, or be the least bit surprised if it was proven never to have happened.
Not only does Brooks claim the incident with the windshield and Eric happened in 98, he says Brooks claims Dylan gave him the website in 98, when I think most acknowledge Dylan exposing the massacre plot or ratting out a friend like that seems quite odd and that Brooks brother found it sooner than that.
As I recall, Brooks says he and his mother dispute over whether Eric let him go because he liked him now as he said, or because killing him then before the bombs were supposed to have gone off would ruin the plan. Assuming it happened, I have to imagine a bit of all the above. Something like "Ha, really Brooks who I wanted to kill of all people? Who cares about the test man get out of my way, I can't stay here forever, got shit to do....you know what? I don't even hate you anymore, just please go away." for what went through Eric's head.
Brooks said the "I like you now" seemed genuine, and I think he said he attributes this to going to IHOP a few times with Eric just before. If indeed they weren't close at all at that point, the whole scenario is weird. "Man you missed the test!" 'Ok....who are you again?'
Also it should be said, I think when Brooks mentioned the story to the 911 operator (which as I recall yeah he did, "Eric handed me my life on a platter" or some such), he wouldn't have known they were committing suicide. For all he knew, Eric could have just been arrested and said that never happened. If the story only existed after their suicide was known, and if details like Eric not wearing his hat and parking in the wrong parking lot were only in Brooks story after the public knew, then I'd be more skeptical, but I'm not sure either of those are the case. | |
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Lizpuff
Posts : 2677 Contribution Points : 101499 Forum Reputation : 1190 Join date : 2016-03-02 Age : 36
| Subject: Re: Is Brooks actually a liar? Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:55 pm | |
| - cakeman wrote:
- It seems the aspect that really sets off the case being like a movie or other true crime drama which makes me skeptical. Then you toss in Brooks's reputation, it seems like he wouldn't be able to help but put himself in the story. I assume it happened, but I would not bet a dollar that it did, or be the least bit surprised if it was proven never to have happened.
Not only does Brooks claim the incident with the windshield and Eric happened in 98, he says Brooks claims Dylan gave him the website in 98, when I think most acknowledge Dylan exposing the massacre plot or ratting out a friend like that seems quite odd and that Brooks brother found it sooner than that.
As I recall, Brooks says he and his mother dispute over whether Eric let him go because he liked him now as he said, or because killing him then before the bombs were supposed to have gone off would ruin the plan. Assuming it happened, I have to imagine a bit of all the above. Something like "Ha, really Brooks who I wanted to kill of all people? Who cares about the test man get out of my way, I can't stay here forever, got shit to do....you know what? I don't even hate you anymore, just please go away." for what went through Eric's head.
Brooks said the "I like you now" seemed genuine, and I think he said he attributes this to going to IHOP a few times with Eric just before. If indeed they weren't close at all at that point, the whole scenario is weird. "Man you missed the test!" 'Ok....who are you again?'
Also it should be said, I think when Brooks mentioned the story to the 911 operator (which as I recall yeah he did, "Eric handed me my life on a platter" or some such), he wouldn't have known they were committing suicide. For all he knew, Eric could have just been arrested and said that never happened. If the story only existed after their suicide was known, and if details like Eric not wearing his hat and parking in the wrong parking lot were only in Brooks story after the public knew, then I'd be more skeptical, but I'm not sure either of those are the case. As far as I can recall the story Brooks has told was the story he told to cops and others immediately. And that part has not changed. Which is a big part of the reason why I actually believe that part But I have been proved a fool before by a liar so. I also would not make any real bets _________________ Hold me now I need to feel complete Like I matter to the one I need
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Pixie13
Posts : 176 Contribution Points : 62051 Forum Reputation : 270 Join date : 2018-09-08
| Subject: Re: Is Brooks actually a liar? Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:29 pm | |
| There are only two people who will ever really know what was said, Eric and Brooks. Short of holding a seance, we either have to believe Brooks on this one or not. I think there was a witness in the 11k who saw them talking, so I do think they were on speaking terms and he does seem to be very consistent on this aspect so I am inclined to think it was true.
Has Brooks told the truth about *everything* after that statement... no, I think there has been some exaggeration, attention-seeking and projection (especially in Dylan) ever since. | |
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slippy123
Posts : 879 Contribution Points : 110738 Forum Reputation : 1235 Join date : 2015-08-25
| Subject: Re: Is Brooks actually a liar? Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:19 am | |
| - Pixie13 wrote:
- There are only two people who will ever really know what was said, Eric and Brooks. Short of holding a seance, we either have to believe Brooks on this one or not. I think there was a witness in the 11k who saw them talking, so I do think they were on speaking terms and he does seem to be very consistent on this aspect so I am inclined to think it was true.
Has Brooks told the truth about *everything* after that statement... no, I think there has been some exaggeration, attention-seeking and projection (especially in Dylan) ever since. A lot of things about Columbine come down to this. It all comes down to who you believe, or who seems the most credible. Thankfully we have some good minds here that are able to recognize when things don't seem to add up about certain situations. | |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Is Brooks actually a liar? Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:20 am | |
| Do I believe Brooks saw Eric that day? Yes. I do. I don't really believe the whole story though. I think he has exaggerated if it is true. I doubt the interaction was only Eric telling him that he liked him and to leave. I mean... Eric didn't even like Brooks.
The whole thing with Brooks and that minor he was messaging... it made me weary of him. I don't know if I trust him at all. |
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slippy123
Posts : 879 Contribution Points : 110738 Forum Reputation : 1235 Join date : 2015-08-25
| Subject: Re: Is Brooks actually a liar? Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:44 am | |
| - hvernon wrote:
- Do I believe Brooks saw Eric that day? Yes. I do. I don't really believe the whole story though. I think he has exaggerated if it is true. I doubt the interaction was only Eric telling him that he liked him and to leave. I mean... Eric didn't even like Brooks.
The whole thing with Brooks and that minor he was messaging... it made me weary of him. I don't know if I trust him at all. Well they did make up towards the end and from all accounts Eric seemed to have let bygones be bygones. Did he still hold some ill feelings towards Brooks that we don't know about? It's entirely possible. Eric's mind was on setting those bombs, and sticking to the time frame they had planned. So I don't think Eric was trying to have any long conversations. There really wasn't anything to say aside from hey man, I like you now, get out of here. At the end of the day, only Brook's knows what went down. But I'm curious, what else do you think was said? | |
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bradt93
Posts : 721 Contribution Points : 96356 Forum Reputation : 255 Join date : 2016-12-21 Location : United States
| Subject: Re: Is Brooks actually a liar? Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:23 am | |
| It also perplexes me if Eric was psychotic like everyone thinks, wouldn't Eric of shot Brooks right there in the parking lot whether he liked him or not? Devon did say though if they liked you, they were cool with you, if they didn't you were their worse enemies. I mean most psychotics don't care if they were your friend or not. _________________ bt
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Lizpuff
Posts : 2677 Contribution Points : 101499 Forum Reputation : 1190 Join date : 2016-03-02 Age : 36
| Subject: Re: Is Brooks actually a liar? Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:59 pm | |
| - bradt93 wrote:
- It also perplexes me if Eric was psychotic like everyone thinks, wouldn't Eric of shot Brooks right there in the parking lot whether he liked him or not? Devon did say though if they liked you, they were cool with you, if they didn't you were their worse enemies. I mean most psychotics don't care if they were your friend or not.
If he did that he would have been caught (at least in his mind) he had no idea that Neil G was out of the school. He didn't want to screw up his plan. I think he knew that it was either Brooks dies or a bunch of people die. Also I do think Eric did not like Brooks and was very annoyed by him but at the same time they had been "friends" using that term loosely. I think he knew he had bigger things to do rather than kill this annoying guy _________________ Hold me now I need to feel complete Like I matter to the one I need
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slippy123
Posts : 879 Contribution Points : 110738 Forum Reputation : 1235 Join date : 2015-08-25
| Subject: Re: Is Brooks actually a liar? Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:24 am | |
| - Lizpuff wrote:
- bradt93 wrote:
- It also perplexes me if Eric was psychotic like everyone thinks, wouldn't Eric of shot Brooks right there in the parking lot whether he liked him or not? Devon did say though if they liked you, they were cool with you, if they didn't you were their worse enemies. I mean most psychotics don't care if they were your friend or not.
If he did that he would have been caught (at least in his mind) he had no idea that Neil G was out of the school. He didn't want to screw up his plan. I think he knew that it was either Brooks dies or a bunch of people die.
Also I do think Eric did not like Brooks and was very annoyed by him but at the same time they had been "friends" using that term loosely. I think he knew he had bigger things to do rather than kill this annoying guy Makes me wonder what would of happened if they found Brooks under a table instead of John Savage. I think they would of let him live. Eric might of not liked Brooks at one point in time, but I don't think he had the feelings of rage he had with the Jocks. | |
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cakeman
Posts : 802 Contribution Points : 85922 Forum Reputation : 1491 Join date : 2018-07-27
| Subject: Re: Is Brooks actually a liar? Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:51 pm | |
| Don't know how anyone can really believe Eric was planting the main bombs after the conversation with Brooks. Don't think he even entered the school; he went to the top of the stairs and waited for Dylan. The duffle bag with the 20-pound + propane bombs rather than his shotgun/etc would have been a lot more conspicuous to Brooks.
If one is going to cite Dylan's notes, he also has to cite that it said they would leave the school after planting the bombs to gear up. So either Eric planted the bombs by himself and left again after talking with Brooks, which is absurd, especially given how little time was left; or he was returning from leaving after planting the bombs with Dylan. Using Dylan's notes as some kind of official timeline is foolish, especially when he wrote down more than one. They were obviously very rough guidelines. | |
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Jenn Forum & Discord Server Owner
Posts : 3162 Contribution Points : 124331 Forum Reputation : 1024 Join date : 2013-03-14 Location : A place where it always snows.
| Subject: Re: Is Brooks actually a liar? Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:01 am | |
| Timeline of events:
1. Eric plants duffle bag with 1 propane bomb at 10:59 AM (he's seen on CCTV taking the bomb in).
2. Dylan plants duffle bag with 1 propane bomb at 11:00 AM (he's also seen on CCTV taking it in).
3. Eric and Dylan drive over to Clement Park to take off their flannel shirts, put their trench coats on and get all their stuff ready.
4. Eric and Dylan drive back over to Columbine and arrive around 11:10 AM.
5. Brooks sees Eric get out of his car with a bag (this bag contained pipe bombs). Eric later sat this same bag on one of the tables in the cafeteria when he picked up a drink (it's seen on CCTV).
6. Brooks walks over to Eric after he got out of his car and has a conversation with him around 11:14 AM.
7. Eric tells Brooks to "go home" right around 11:15 AM. Brooks is later seen by witnesses walking down the street.
8. Eric meets Dylan at the top of the staircase right around the time the bombs are meant to go off (11:17 AM).
9. They wait for the bombs to go off until 11:19 AM. When they don't, they start shooting people. _________________ “And may you grow to be proud Dignified and true And do unto others As you'd have done to you”
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milennialrebelette
Posts : 248 Contribution Points : 64715 Forum Reputation : 725 Join date : 2018-10-28 Age : 33 Location : Littleton, CO
| Subject: Re: Is Brooks actually a liar? Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:15 pm | |
| Knowing and being neighbors with the Brown family and my sister knowing and hating Brooks and his parents... I say liar. Maybe that one incident where he saw Eric leaving the school that day was true, but that doesn't make his other statements not lies.
The whole Dylan and Rachel thing Judy made up shows that, Dylan wasnt Brooks close friend since elementary school, Dylan and Rachel didnt know each other well. It just doesnt make sense and both Dylan and Rachel's actual close friends all say it's not true.
I mean calling out the bullying was good but it went overboard. A stopped clock is right twice a day but that doesnt make it correct. | |
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cakeman
Posts : 802 Contribution Points : 85922 Forum Reputation : 1491 Join date : 2018-07-27
| Subject: Re: Is Brooks actually a liar? Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:08 pm | |
| - Jenn wrote:
- Timeline of events:
1. Eric plants duffle bag with 1 propane bomb at 10:59 AM (he's seen on CCTV taking the bomb in).
2. Dylan plants duffle bag with 1 propane bomb at 11:00 AM (he's also seen on CCTV taking it in).
3. Eric and Dylan drive over to Clement Park to take off their flannel shirts, put their trench coats on and get all their stuff ready.
4. Eric and Dylan drive back over to Columbine and arrive around 11:10 AM.
5. Brooks sees Eric get out of his car with a bag (this bag contained pipe bombs). Eric later sat this same bag on one of the tables in the cafeteria when he picked up a drink (it's seen on CCTV).
6. Brooks walks over to Eric after he got out of his car and has a conversation with him around 11:14 AM.
7. Eric tells Brooks to "go home" right around 11:15 AM. Brooks is later seen by witnesses walking down the street.
8. Eric meets Dylan at the top of the staircase right around the time the bombs are meant to go off (11:17 AM).
9. They wait for the bombs to go off until 11:19 AM. When they don't, they start shooting people. I am not positive it's them on the CCTV, but I think: 1) That timing makes by far the most sense. Even if it isn't them, I think it was around that time. 11:14 like the 'tape change' or 11:09 like Dylan's notes is cutting it way too close. After the "after-prom" party is cutting it way too early (if that's a phrase). 2) Makes no sense for them to plant the bombs in their gear and when people are being let out like Brooks for a cigarette. You'd do it while people are in class, and you'd do it in normal clothes like the flannels, and probably with sunglasses to avoid eye contact/etc. 3) The one who is supposedly Dylan does not return. I think the most likely explanation is that has something to do with the 2 propane bombs planted in the kitchen. Along with Dylan's car bombs being bigger/more complex, him checking on the bombs from outside, and going closer to them on the CCTV inside, him being the sound engineer, etc, I wonder if this says he was the real bomb tech between them. Another possibility is it shows the suicidality. Also, as I recall, witnesses stated Eric was waiting for Dylan at the top of the stairs around 11:10. It does seem that Eric went first, then Dylan. So I might push back the talk with Brooks a little bit, if that's not contradicted by other accounts. I know this is at least somewhat just relaying the timeline rather than an interpretation, but I still don't buy "When they don't, they start shooting people." I'd use a more neutral "They don't, but they start shooting people." They were too confident, had planned for too long to wait only two minutes, had too many sitting ducks in the cafeteria to start shooting outside, and couldn't see it from their vantage point. It makes too much sense to me that Dylan entered the cafeteria from outside because he had only just then noticed that the bombs failed, and had not at the top of the stairs when the shooting began. It seems to me there's nothing to check about x if you are sure enough that x happened that you start shooting; there is something to check about x if you start shooting because of not-x and then realize x, where x in this case is bomb failure. He was otherwise supposed to keep walking to the bottom after being shielded from the blast at the top and spray the exits with the TEC-9, hence he spent the shotgun bullets but barely shot with the TEC-9. The way he descends the cafeteria stairs on the CCTV, when Eric gestures, his attention focused on what is in front of him, until diverted at the last minute, suggests to me too much that sequence of events. Also the way he came up with NBK, the way he had the 'super shotgun' and Eric's beloved "AB-10", the way he was dressed in black like the more lethal 'shotgun guy' rather than white like former human (ok he's tan but close enough). | |
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Norwegian Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 1143 Contribution Points : 84178 Forum Reputation : 304 Join date : 2018-12-06
| Subject: Re: Is Brooks actually a liar? Wed May 15, 2019 9:11 pm | |
| I feel like Ive learned a lot by reading hes book. Of course there are certain things I see as questionable. For one, I dont think they were the loosers of the loosers as he puts it. There are other accounts which suggests the opposite, and I dont believe that they were really that much at the bortom of the food chain.
As for bullying it's hard to say what is accurate as withness testimonies are not always reliable information, and because people cannot separate between bullying behaviour and teasing or harassment.
But other than that first hand accounts have been helpful in order to get a clearer picture. The accounts that he gives about Erics harassment falls into the image of who he really was: a calculating person. | |
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lol
Posts : 418 Contribution Points : 108097 Forum Reputation : 325 Join date : 2013-07-27
| Subject: Re: Is Brooks actually a liar? Sun May 19, 2019 7:35 pm | |
| I tend to believe the Eric story, however Brooks indeed exaggerated and somewhat lied about several things in his book.
I remember an interview where Brooks said Eric and Dylan were the two biggest losers at Columbine High School. This is a complete exaggeration. They definitely were not the two biggest losers at CHS.
And Dylan and Brooks were NOT friends since elementary school. The whole Dylan giving Brooks a note of Eric's website address on it was/is a lie. Brooks said this happened around early 1998 in their junior year. The truth of the matter is Brooks already knew about that website since the summer before their junior year, and so did their family. Aaron Brown (Brooks' younger brother) reported Eric's website to the JCPD in August 1997, and there was supposed to be an investigation done, but they never looked deeper into it. Brooks' younger brother is the one who told Brooks and his family about Eric's website. Why would Dylan go out of his way to give him a note of Eric's website months later when they already knew about it?
Not to mention in late 1997, both Eric AND Dylan vandalized Brooks Brown' house along with Zack Heckler.
Brooks will never let go that Dylan didn't like him as much as he think he did.
Brooks also said the windshield incident happened in February 1998. Another lie. It happened in February 1997, their 10th grade year. Brooks never spoke to Eric nor Dylan until their second semester at Columbine High School in their senior year which was January 1999. Prior to that it's been 2 years since Brooks spoke with any of them.
Brooks definitely wanted to appear to others that he was more closer to Eric and Dylan than anyone else before their deaths. The truth is Chris Morris and Nate Dykeman were the only two that were very close with Eric and Dylan before their deaths. | |
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Norwegian Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 1143 Contribution Points : 84178 Forum Reputation : 304 Join date : 2018-12-06
| Subject: Re: Is Brooks actually a liar? Mon May 20, 2019 12:32 pm | |
| It's good for first hand withness accounts. Im not so sure what is accurate or inaccurate. I dont think it's accurate That they were the loosers of the loosers. Was he a friend of Dylan? There are pictures of them together as kids, and I believe that other researchers have verified this.
Is it accurate That Dylan took part in vandalizing Brooks house? I only remember Langmann saying that Dylan took part in vandalizing houses, but I dont think he mentioned Brooks' house spesifically.
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thelmar
Posts : 760 Contribution Points : 88082 Forum Reputation : 3068 Join date : 2018-07-15
| Subject: Re: Is Brooks actually a liar? Mon May 20, 2019 2:34 pm | |
| - Norwegian wrote:
- It's good for first hand withness accounts.
Im not so sure what is accurate or inaccurate. I dont think it's accurate That they were the loosers of the loosers. Was he a friend of Dylan? There are pictures of them together as kids, and I believe that other researchers have verified this.
Is it accurate That Dylan took part in vandalizing Brooks house? I only remember Langmann saying that Dylan took part in vandalizing houses, but I dont think he mentioned Brooks' house spesifically.
Dylan and Brooks were much closer when they were elementary school age and maybe early into middle school. The majority of photos of them together (the Cub Scouts pic, the pic of their "band", etc.) are from this age. This is also consistent with Sue Klebold's recollection of their relationship. I think going into high school they were more acquaintances- friendly with one another if they saw each other, but not to the point that they hung out together in or out of school. Yes, Dylan and Zach Heckler both took part in the Rebel Missions vandalizing Brooks' house according to Eric's "mission logs" on his website. According to his site, Dylan was involved in ALL of the Rebel Missions. Lots of people who knew Brooks back then, including teachers, said he was a liar or was known to stretch the truth. Several people (the only ones that come to mind at the moment are Nate Dykeman and Syd Keating but I know there are others) mentioned this in their statements to police when asked about Brooks. | |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Is Brooks actually a liar? Mon May 20, 2019 8:48 pm | |
| When I read his book it felt like he was trying to prove his friendships with Eric and Dylan. Yes, him and Dylan were friends as kids (elementary and MAYBE early middle school). After that I think it was a “what’s up” in the halls or causal chats if in the same class together. Sue even states that she had not seen or spoken to Judy before the incident in quite some time and they even chatted very brief and loosely the last time they spoke. Brooks to me is a lot like Devon. They want to feel a more closeness to Dylan and/or Eric AFTER the fact. I believe Brooks spoke to Eric at his car. He probably lit up and saw no one he knew around and there was Eric.....so he went over and what did he talk about? A missed test. That’s totally causal talk cause you have nothing else to say to someone. Eric’s response of “I like you now go home” was probably Eric just trying to get him out of his face. He was on a schedule. He wouldn’t have cared if Brooks was in the commons or the library or went home. I don’t trust Brooks. His book felt exaggerated to me. When Judy even speaks of Dylan it’s when he was little and what a nice quiet cute sweet boy he was. My vote about Brooks is that I do not fully believe his whole story. |
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Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6449 Contribution Points : 198703 Forum Reputation : 1327 Join date : 2017-08-26 Age : 37
| Subject: Re: Is Brooks actually a liar? Mon May 20, 2019 9:27 pm | |
| - SenSpiritedAway wrote:
- When I read his book it felt like he was trying to prove his friendships with Eric and Dylan. Yes, him and Dylan were friends as kids (elementary and MAYBE early middle school). After that I think it was a “what’s up” in the halls or causal chats if in the same class together. Sue even states that she had not seen or spoken to Judy before the incident in quite some time and they even chatted very brief and loosely the last time they spoke. Brooks to me is a lot like Devon. They want to feel a more closeness to Dylan and/or Eric AFTER the fact. I believe Brooks spoke to Eric at his car. He probably lit up and saw no one he knew around and there was Eric.....so he went over and what did he talk about? A missed test. That’s totally causal talk cause you have nothing else to say to someone. Eric’s response of “I like you now go home” was probably Eric just trying to get him out of his face. He was on a schedule. He wouldn’t have cared if Brooks was in the commons or the library or went home. I don’t trust Brooks. His book felt exaggerated to me. When Judy even speaks of Dylan it’s when he was little and what a nice quiet cute sweet boy he was. My vote about Brooks is that I do not fully believe his whole story.
I genuinely agree with you. I think he connected more with Dylan senior year during Frankenstein If you’re not been close friends since they were little, but by then Dylan was pretty much putting on a façade for everyone. I think it also made sense for Eric to bury the hatchet with Brooks because of what they were planning on doing. I don’t think either of them could afford to really rock the boat their senior year. I also do think that Devon was not as close to Dylan as she claimed to be. I don’t buy the best friend stuff. Especially with Zach acted after I think that they had grown aparttoo. Even though Devon had posted about Dylan last year I don’t know if everyone saw her post. It was saying that if she had spent more time with him and told him she loved him would he have done the shooting? I believe it was a public post. Not here but on social media _________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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| Subject: Re: Is Brooks actually a liar? | |
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