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 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.

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rik75




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PostSubject: 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.   4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red. Icon_minitimeWed Nov 20, 2013 9:52 am

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PostSubject: Re: 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.   4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red. Icon_minitimeWed Nov 20, 2013 9:59 am

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PostSubject: Re: 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.   4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red. Icon_minitimeWed Nov 20, 2013 10:02 am

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PostSubject: Re: 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.   4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red. Icon_minitimeWed Nov 20, 2013 10:03 am

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PostSubject: Re: 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.   4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red. Icon_minitimeWed Nov 20, 2013 10:05 am

I have been experimenting with sizes to show every detail.
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PostSubject: Re: 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.   4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red. Icon_minitimeWed Nov 20, 2013 10:18 am

Dylan's trench coat is to the north of Table 18.
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PostSubject: Re: 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.   4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red. Icon_minitimeWed Nov 20, 2013 6:08 pm

Thanks for posting this!

To see the little bodies in their helpless positions like that is quite chilling...

I think survivor and window crawler Patrick Ireland was lying under table 15, right by Eric and Dylan.

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PostSubject: Re: 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.   4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red. Icon_minitimeWed Nov 20, 2013 6:26 pm

Is there a detailed list for all the students under each table in 11k?
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PostSubject: Re: 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.   4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red. Icon_minitimeWed Nov 20, 2013 7:19 pm

Moseley wrote:
Is there a detailed list for all the students under each table in 11k?
Yes , checkout the library witness's / and the library injured. Every person in the library are accounted for and their hiding places are revealed.
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PostSubject: Re: 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.   4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red. Icon_minitimeThu Nov 21, 2013 12:57 am

The diagrams are great, I think you linked the site before rik75 but in case anyone missed it they are here:
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Even though they may not be 100% accurate they give a rough visual of the timeline of events on 4/20.

Moseley wrote:
Is there a detailed list for all the students under each table in 11k?
As mentioned you can find interviews in the 'Library Injured' pg(1 - 179) and 'Library Witnesses' pg(266 - 650). You may also find the 'Library Team Reports' interesting pg(12238 - 12574).
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PostSubject: Re: 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.   4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red. Icon_minitimeThu Nov 21, 2013 9:32 am

queenfarooq wrote:
The diagrams are great, I think you linked the site before rik75 but in case anyone missed it they are here:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Even though they may not be 100% accurate they give a rough visual of the timeline of events on 4/20.

Moseley wrote:
Is there a detailed list for all the students under each table in 11k?
As mentioned you can find interviews in the 'Library Injured' pg(1 - 179) and 'Library Witnesses' pg(266 - 650). You may also find the 'Library Team Reports' interesting pg(12238 - 12574).
Hi Queenfarooq ,you are right ,i did post the TOC diagrams. I think the TOC diagrams are not as detailed as the diagrams in this post because the ones in this post show the positions of the bodies as they were found and they show the location of the survivors and the chairs surrounding each table.. The TOC diagrams use circles to represent the bodies.
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PostSubject: Re: 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.   4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red. Icon_minitimeThu Nov 21, 2013 9:35 am

JayJay wrote:
Thanks for posting this!

To see the little bodies in their helpless positions like that is quite chilling...

I think survivor and window crawler Patrick Ireland was lying under table 15, right by Eric and Dylan.
You are welcome JayJay!
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PostSubject: Re: 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.   4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red. Icon_minitimeThu Nov 21, 2013 10:37 am

Moseley wrote:
Is there a detailed list for all the students under each table in 11k?
Here is a list for you Moseley ,it may not be 100% accurate. scratch  But i tried Laughing 

MAIN DESK.
Patricia Nelson / Evan Todd.

TABLE 1.
Mark Kingten / Jenna Park.

TABLE 2.
Valeen Schnurr / Lauren Townsend / Lisa Kruetz / Diwata Perez / Kelly Fleming.

TABLE 3.
Patricia Blair / Heather Jacobson.

TABLE 4.
Unoccupied.

TABLE 5.
Nicole Nowlen / John Tomlin.

TABLE 6.
Unoccupied.

TABLE 7.
Aaron Welsh

TABLE 8.
Britany Bollerud / Joshua Lapp.

TABLE 9. 
Daniel Mauser.

TABLE 10.
Sara Houy / Seth Houy / Crystal Woodman.

TABLE 11.
John Savage.

TABLE 12.
Lindsay Elmore / Rebecca Parker.

TABLE 13.
Athena Lagos / Amber Huntington / Jessica Holiday.

TABLE 14.
Jennifer Doyle / Austin Eubanks / Peter Ball.

TABLE 15.
Daniel Stapleton / Makai Hall / Patric Ireland / Kathy Park (sister of Jenna Park)

TABLE 16.
Matthew Kechter / Isaiah Shoels.

TABLE 17.
Hedi Johnson

TABLE 18.
Unoccupied.

TABLE 19.
Emily Wyant / Cassie Burnall.

TABLE 20.
Bree Pasquale / Stephanie Salmon / Aaron Cohn / Steven Greenwood / Byron Kirkland


Last edited by rik75 on Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:22 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.   4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red. Icon_minitimeThu Nov 21, 2013 10:58 am

You can see Eric and Dylan's final resting place is diagonally opposite the main entrance. They are completely out of sight of anyone entering the library via the main entrance. They didn't want to be disturbed during the " 1-2-3- BANG! BANG! "
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PostSubject: Re: 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.   4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red. Icon_minitimeThu Nov 21, 2013 11:55 am

rik75 wrote:
You can see Eric and Dylan's final resting place is diagonally opposite the main entrance. They are completely out of sight of anyone entering the library via the main entrance. They didn't want to be disturbed during the " 1-2-3- BANG! BANG! "
They certainly were out of sight in the corner of the library, but i don't think there was a "1,2,3" moment of any kind.
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PostSubject: Re: 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.   4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red. Icon_minitimeThu Nov 21, 2013 1:26 pm

Thanks for starting this Rik! A couple additions: Jeanna Park was under table 2, but Jessica Holliday was further back in the library.
Crystal Woodman was under table 10 with the Houy siblings.
Corey dePooter was also under table 14.
Kathy Park was the Asian girl hiding w/ Dan Steepleton's group.
Cassie was under the same table as Emily Wyant.
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PostSubject: Re: 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.   4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red. Icon_minitimeThu Nov 21, 2013 1:39 pm

mrc123 wrote:
Thanks for starting this Rik!  A couple additions: Jeanna Park was under table 2, but Jessica Holliday was further back in the library.
Crystal Woodman was under table 10 with the Houy siblings.  
Corey dePooter was also under table 14.
Kathy Park was the Asian girl hiding w/ Dan Steepleton's group.
Cassie was under the same table as Emily Wyant.
Thanks for correcting me and naming the Chinese girl. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.   4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red. Icon_minitimeThu Nov 21, 2013 3:01 pm

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Can somebody answer my question?
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PostSubject: Re: 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.   4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red. Icon_minitimeThu Nov 21, 2013 3:36 pm

rik75 wrote:

TABLE 16.
Matthew Kechter / Isaiah Shoels.

Wasn't Craig Scott under this table as well?
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PostSubject: Re: 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.   4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red. Icon_minitimeSat Sep 17, 2016 1:41 am

what are red and blue numbers and letters in the diagram ?
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PostSubject: Re: 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.   4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red. Icon_minitimeSat Sep 17, 2016 4:53 am

Are there not a few names missing off that list?

Also / I assume Sara and Seth Houy are brother and sister. I wonder if they still talk about what happened?
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PostSubject: Re: 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.   4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red. Icon_minitimeSat Sep 17, 2016 11:13 am

I find it really interesting that some tables were completely skipped over while some were shot to all hell. I wonder what E & D's distinctions were because random (natural selection) seems unlikely, it's almost impossible for humans to pick something at random.
I feel terrible for Daniel Mauser, he was second to last to be killed so he had to listen (and smell) as his classmates screamed, cried, were shot and/or died. And he had to do it all alone, there were so many stories about kids under the same table comforting other kids or helping to staunch the bleeding.
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PostSubject: Re: 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.   4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red. Icon_minitimeSat Sep 17, 2016 11:31 am

NotYourRobot wrote:
I find it really interesting that some tables were completely skipped over while some were shot to all hell. I wonder what E & D's distinctions were because random (natural selection) seems unlikely, it's almost impossible for humans to pick something at random.

It was at random I promise you. Even at the table where all the girls were I think where Valeen and Lauren were despite the fact that Dylan said "look at those bitches over there".

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PostSubject: Re: 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.   4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red. Icon_minitimeSat Sep 17, 2016 11:35 am

I think what's more interesting is when under a table there are either two or three people and only one would get shot fatally. Besides Isaiah and Matt most tables would only have one casualty of two or more. But I also ought to keep in mind that the boys thought they had killed more than those dead.

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PostSubject: Re: 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.   4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red. Icon_minitimeSat Sep 17, 2016 11:51 am

shades wrote:
I think what's more interesting is when under a table there are either two or three people and only one would get shot fatally. Besides Isaiah and Matt most tables would only have one casualty of two or more. But I also ought to keep in mind that the boys thought they had killed more than those dead.

yes , maybe , playing dead worked for some .
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PostSubject: Re: 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.   4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red. Icon_minitimeSat Sep 17, 2016 12:05 pm

Off topic, but why did E$D go from the right section to the left section then to the middle ( I imagine there were tall bookcases separating the 3 sections of tables)?
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PostSubject: Re: 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.   4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red. Icon_minitimeSat Sep 17, 2016 12:50 pm

shades wrote:
I think what's more interesting is when under a table there are either two or three people and only one would get shot fatally. Besides Isaiah and Matt most tables would only have one casualty of two or more. But I also ought to keep in mind that the boys thought they had killed more than those dead.
Honestly it a miracle more didn't die, both outside and in the library. I can't believe Patrick Ireland crawled for three hours to the window after three head shots, I'm in awe. Then there was Nicole Nowlen (9 shots) Lance Kirklin(point-blank shot to the face) Valleen Schnurr ( multiple wounds and dead friend beside her) mark Johnston (chest wound) and I forget his name but that kid who was shot in the leg and ran back to hide behind a storage shed.
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PostSubject: Re: 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.   4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red. Icon_minitimeSat Sep 17, 2016 12:56 pm

NotYourRobot wrote:
Honestly it a miracle more didn't die, both outside and in the library. I can't believe Patrick Ireland crawled for three hours to the window after three head shots, I'm in awe. Then there was Nicole Nowlen (9 shots) Lance Kirklin(point-blank shot to the face) Valleen Schnurr ( multiple wounds and dead friend beside her) mark Johnston (chest wound) and I forget his name but that kid who was shot in the leg and ran back to hide behind a storage shed.

That would be Dan Steepleton for the last one because of where he was shot but he didn't hide behind a storage shed...? I should look that one up.

And yes of course, the injured stories are fascinating, and I can only imagine everything they experienced that day.

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PostSubject: Re: 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.   4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red. Icon_minitimeSat Sep 17, 2016 1:03 pm

Okay it was Michael Johnson who hid behind the shed.

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PostSubject: Re: 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.   4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red. Icon_minitimeSat Sep 17, 2016 1:04 pm

I'm so glad many of those kids were smart enough to play dead and be there for one another. Whether it would have made a difference or not to Eric and Dylan but I'm glad there were not more casualties that day and a few were lucky to have survived what would be critical wounds.

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PostSubject: Re: 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.   4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red. Icon_minitimeSat Sep 17, 2016 1:07 pm

shades wrote:
NotYourRobot wrote:
Honestly it a miracle more didn't die, both outside and in the library. I can't believe Patrick Ireland crawled for three hours to the window after three head shots, I'm in awe. Then there was Nicole Nowlen (9 shots) Lance Kirklin(point-blank shot to the face) Valleen Schnurr ( multiple wounds and dead friend beside her) mark Johnston (chest wound) and I forget his name but that kid who was shot in the leg and ran back to hide behind a storage shed.

That would be Dan Steepleton for the last one because of where he was shot but he didn't hide behind a storage shed...? I should look that one up.

And yes of course, the injured stories are fascinating, and I can only imagine everything they experienced that day.
Dan Steepleton was in the library.
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PostSubject: Re: 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.   4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red. Icon_minitimeSat Sep 17, 2016 1:09 pm

Yeah you're right, it was Michael Johnson who got shot outside and hid behind the shed.

Wasn't there a survivor who did a Reddit thread not too long ago talking about his experience and how he was still suffering from what happened and people speculated it was either Dan or Michael based on the clue of where he was shot?

Edit: I found the thread, and I'm convinced it's Michael. He wanted to remain anonymous talking about his story.

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PostSubject: Re: 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.   4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red. Icon_minitimeSat Sep 17, 2016 8:39 pm

NotYourRobot wrote:
I find it really interesting that some tables were completely skipped over while some were shot to all hell. I wonder what E & D's distinctions were  because random (natural selection) seems unlikely, it's almost impossible for humans to pick something at random.

It's been said many times before, but they were relishing playing God, kind of like how in Natural Born Killers Mickey and Mallory would normally spare at least one person on their killing sprees. Eric mentioned in his diary he was hoping survivors would be traumatized. Yes, they did shoot at random in some cases and singled people out to be killed in other cases (i.e. Isaiah happened to capture both of their attention because he was black), but they certainly made a conscious decision to spare a handful of people (Evan Todd, Patty Blair, Heather Jacobson, Bree Pasquale etc). Obviously not out of the goodness of their hearts - it was more like a power trip (except maybe in the case of John Savage who they were somewhat acquainted with - but even John mentioned in the 11k he was scared they would change their minds about sparing him).

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PostSubject: Re: 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.   4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red. Icon_minitimeMon Sep 19, 2016 3:19 am

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^Interesting posts regarding the "sparing" of people in the library.

Gustopoet2 wrote:
lio45 wrote:
Sabratha wrote:
Its just a guess but I think Dylan was already done/bored with/tired of killing at this point.

Yeah, that's also my opinion. I'm actually very convinced that I'm right on that one.

It seems clear to me that killing people had gotten old by that point. (As we know, they were heard by several witnesses discussing that they no longer found a thrill in shooting their victims.)

They had fun, they finally had what they'd been dreaming of for so long, but by then the adrenaline rush was mostly over. Plus, let's not forget it's physically taxing to shoot people like that. For these two frail teens, carrying the gear, reloading, just the weight of the guns... plus the fact they kinda had to be on their guard as well, and I'm sure they were -- pretty much all the time. They weren't physically in great shape, so after a while of rampage, they will have grown tired of it both physically and mentally.

(I was in the Army for a few years, and I'm very fit... I can tell you these things are definitely not as easy in real life as it is when you're playing Doom.)


And we know they did not care at all about having the highest kill count as possible, since they left most of the people in the library absolutely unscathed. (Contrast that to Cho's modus operandi.)


Yeah, Eric still had an interest in making the bombs go BOOM, but Dylan just wanted to die. I can buy that. Ditto for the last volley they shot at the cops. That would be Eric's thing...

The last glimpse we get of them on the caf. tape just minutes before they die -- it is Eric who is skipping a step to go back up to the library; Dylan is lollygagging around a bit and looking at the damage. I figure that is because Eric said "Let's go back and shoot at cops!" and Dylan was like "What's the fucking point? We can't hit them."

I don't think they "discussed" the suicide until after they went back and shot at the cops. Probably they shot at them and missed and eventually Dylan was like "Reb, I'm low on ammo! It's time." Or something like that.

Being an over-achiever Eric of course was the first to suicide. Dylan lagged behind to light a Molotov and do a small, very personal sort of ritual it appears...

Not sure if it's been discussed, but I wonder if Dylan looked at Eric after he shot himself? I know they were studying their dead and injured victims and making all sorts of grotesque comments, but imagine seeing your friend with their skull blown open when just seconds ago you were probably talking to them. My guess is that he probably chose not to look at Eric before he shot himself.
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PostSubject: Re: 4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.   4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red. Icon_minitimeMon Sep 19, 2016 4:39 am

rik75 wrote:
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I assume the student Carole Weld saw in the library with a hole in their back was indeed Kelly Flemming (injury matches up), although I don't quite understand how she could have seen the wound based on Kelly's position in the diagram.

A lot of the 11k accounts are chilling to read and I honestly can't even begin to imagine the terror these people would have felt. Despite the fact she was hidden from Eric and Dylan's view, I found Carole's account really freaky. It would've been so scary to emerge from her hiding place only to be met with eerie silence and the awful view of someone laying dead with a literal hole in their back from a shotgun blast, not knowing for sure if the killers were lurking around.
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4 Library diagrams. Deceased are highlighted in Red.
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