The original plan

The more I study columbine I seem to stumble back sometimes on parts of it.

What was their original plan? I know they planted the bombs in the cafeteria and wanted them to explode killing a bunch of students, and sending the rest in a panic frenzy to run out the school. Were each of them planning to stand by their cars and shoot the students trying to flee? I believe they thought the bombs would of collapsed the library which is hard for me to believe it would even if they did go off. But after they shot at kids fleeing, what were they going to do?

Was the original plan to kill themselves in the parking lot by their cars? or get shot by police? I'd think they wouldn't of lasted very long outside once the cops/FBI showed.

From what I’ve researched and know from people who went through it, I have a few thoughts.

Their ideal scenerio for them was the bombs going off, shooting from the parking lot and then getting killed by the police.

The bombs didn’t go off so they stormed the school. I don’t think they were initially thinking they’d be killing people so close.

Some people I spoke to talked about the whole “letting” people go thing. How it wasn’t an act of mercy, because sure someone was let go but in turn someone else was shot..

I’m torn on Dylan at times.



Now something I’m wondering though. If they weren’t going to storm the school and go inside, why did they have pipe bombs? Were going to throw them into the crowd?

They also wanted to destroy CHS and all it symbolized and that is one reason I believe they wandered around so long. Also I do believe the adrenaline was wearing off. I don’t think it was as much “fun” anymore anymore

Screamingophelia wrote:

They also wanted to destroy CHS and all it symbolized and that is one reason I believe they wandered around so long. Also I do believe the adrenaline was wearing off. I don’t think it was as much “fun”  anymore anymore

I really like this thought, makes more sense of them shooting at lockers and throwing pipe bombs down the empty halls.

I have wondered if the pipe bombs were for scare tactics.... or perhaps to throw at the students or even cops

They were never going to shoot from the parking lot. What, pray tell, about bombs failing makes you head to the stairs? What witnesses say they waited by their cars? Nothing and none is the answer. They never started shooting "because the bombs failed." The stairs were ideal for elevation and to be blocked from the bombs and to go either direction students ran - unlike the parking lot.  There were only like five cafeteria tables near the south entrance and Eric's car.  They would never have began shooting there if they knew the bombs failed. They had a cafeteria full of victims if "plan b, shoot everyone" was engaged.

Rachel and Richard are shot because they need the west entrance clear to enter when students turn around. Daniel and Lance and Sean are shot because Dylan needs the stairs clear to descend them and fire at those fleeing. None of these are "plan B", "lets just shoot everyone now that the bombs failed". They bloody said repeatedly the bomb is about to work while in the library! Dylan bloody checked to see what was up with the bombs, he didn't walk past knowing they had already failed!   These are simply facts as far as I'm concerned. Dylan also very clearly stated they were always going to "charge through the school."

They also could've done a lot more damage if damaging the school was the reason for wandering around. Simply put, they could've damaged, instead of wandered. They surely expected cops to be in the building. Eric waves, meaning "Cops sighted" almost as soon as they come back to the cafeteria.

My best guess for the original plan. At 11:14, the diversion goes off, causing a fire. People respond, and the second diversion is triggered by their motion to go off, injuring them and diverting the response to the bigger scene at the school.

At 11:15 to 11:20, the first cafeteria bomb explodes. Dylan descends the stairs, and fires with the TEC-9 at those fleeing the exits, while Eric shoots with the carbine from his higher vantage point at police and any others who make it past Dylan.  Probably both tossing pipe bombs and crickets all the while.

Eric seemed to be concerned with killing cops, and Dylan with the murder spree. Eric, not Dylan, exchanges gunfire with police outside. Nearly all if not all the bullet casings fired at cops in the library are from Eric's shotgun. Dylan, not Eric, is first into the library, saying he always wanted to do this, and probably asking "are you still with me" while Eric was busy with police.

Dylan did not fire the TEC-9 more than three times because he was saving his ammunition for those fleeing from the bombs. Eventually, people learn to flee that way is death, and flee the other way, up the cafeteria stairs.

At this point they "charge the school", through the west entrance.  Maybe here is where they use their knives. They would be a lot closer to people at this point, Dylan mentions the charging bit as particularly nerve-racking, and they would have used a bit of ammo on those fleeing into the parking lot.

All evidence points to the second cafeteria bomb being set for 11:35. "the most nerve racking FIFTEEN MINUTES of my life" says Dylan. They leave the library at 11:36. The pictures have it set for 9:35, presumably 2 hours late. They seemed to expect themselves to die in the library explosion, and many have noted that Eric shooting at the cafeteria bombs is a suicide attempt. They probably thought they'd be dead by 11:35.

Paramedics and media and all the rest would arrive, and students would feel safe to run out into the parking lot again. Maybe the whole school would be evacuated that way. Then the car bombs go off at around noon.

Why would they enter the school if it was on fire from the bombs? That makes no sense. Storming the school could mean running towards the school and picking people off as students are running out

Screamingophelia wrote:

Why would they enter the school if it was on fire from the bombs? That makes no sense. Storming the school could mean running towards the school and picking people off as students are running out

I guess if you look at it from the point of view that they didn't care about their own lives then it kinda makes sense. But I agree with you, storming the school doesn't necessarily mean entering the school.

hvernon wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Why would they enter the school if it was on fire from the bombs? That makes no sense. Storming the school could mean running towards the school and picking people off as students are running out

I guess if you look at it from the point of view that they didn't care about their own lives then it kinda makes sense. But I agree with you, storming the school doesn't necessarily mean entering the school.

Good plan, I guess I’m just trying to figure out what was more important to them. Like they could’ve died a lot sooner they ran into the burning building but what if they wanted to wait for the cops. I’m just simply not sure what the complete plan was. Thankfully they didn’t go off so we’ll never know it could’ve been so much worse.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Why would they enter the school if it was on fire from the bombs? That makes no sense. Storming the school could mean running towards the school and picking people off as students are running out

The cafeteria and library are not the entire school. There's no reason to think it would destroy the additional 6 blocks of windows all the way to the west entrance. There's no reason to think it would make it impossible for victims to run the other direction through the whole back part of the school rather than out into the parking lot, especially after people are dying from the latter. They had to think to cut them off. That's literally exactly what they did, enter the west entrance after Dylan sees people running the other way in the cafeteria. Dylan didn't say "storm the school", he said "charge through the school", and they charged through the west entrance. That doesn't mean take an additional one step on the sidewalk towards the cafeteria. It means charge through the school. Then there's the additional issue of being suicidal

I am disappoint. Somehow, it makes sense to you that they changed plans in two minutes from the parking lot to the stairs because the bombs failed, when going to the stairs does nothing for them if the bombs failed. When the parking lot sucks and the stairs are perfect if people do so much as run the other way or the blast spews glass into the parking lot. It makes sense to you that they shoot people outside rather than in the cafeteria if they knew the bombs didn't work. It makes sense to you that they thought the bombs failed at 11:19, but at 11:30 they are screaming that the library is going to get blown up. But charging through the school when they said that's what they would do and then did it, to cut off people's escape, that makes no sense because the bombs were going to vaporize the whole building or something.

cakeman wrote:

They were never going to shoot from the parking lot. What, pray tell, about bombs failing makes you head to the stairs? What witnesses say they waited by their cars? Nothing and none is the answer. They never started shooting "because the bombs failed." The stairs were ideal for elevation and to be blocked from the bombs and to go either direction students ran - unlike the parking lot.  There were only like five cafeteria tables near the south entrance and Eric's car.  They would never have began shooting there if they knew the bombs failed. They had a cafeteria full of victims if "plan b, shoot everyone" was engaged.

Rachel and Richard are shot because they need the west entrance clear to enter when students turn around. Daniel and Lance and Sean are shot because Dylan needs the stairs clear to descend them and fire at those fleeing. None of these are "plan B", "lets just shoot everyone now that the bombs failed". They bloody said repeatedly the bomb is about to work while in the library! Dylan bloody checked to see what was up with the bombs, he didn't walk past knowing they had already failed!   These are simply facts as far as I'm concerned. Dylan also very clearly stated they were always going to "charge through the school."

They also could've done a lot more damage if damaging the school was the reason for wandering around. Simply put, they could've damaged, instead of wandered. They surely expected cops to be in the building. Eric waves, meaning "Cops sighted" almost as soon as they come back to the cafeteria.

My best guess for the original plan. At 11:14, the diversion goes off, causing a fire. People respond, and the second diversion is triggered by their motion to go off, injuring them and diverting the response to the bigger scene at the school.

At 11:15 to 11:20, the first cafeteria bomb explodes. Dylan descends the stairs, and fires with the TEC-9 at those fleeing the exits, while Eric shoots with the carbine from his higher vantage point at police and any others who make it past Dylan.  Probably both tossing pipe bombs and crickets all the while.

Eric seemed to be concerned with killing cops, and Dylan with the murder spree. Eric, not Dylan, exchanges gunfire with police outside. Nearly all if not all the bullet casings fired at cops in the library are from Eric's shotgun. Dylan, not Eric, is first into the library, saying he always wanted to do this, and probably asking "are you still with me" while Eric was busy with police.

Dylan did not fire the TEC-9 more than three times because he was saving his ammunition for those fleeing from the bombs. Eventually, people learn to flee that way is death, and flee the other way, up the cafeteria stairs.

At this point they "charge the school", through the west entrance.  Maybe here is where they use their knives. They would be a lot closer to people at this point, Dylan mentions the charging bit as particularly nerve-racking, and they would have used a bit of ammo on those fleeing into the parking lot.

All evidence points to the second cafeteria bomb being set for 11:35. "the most nerve racking FIFTEEN MINUTES of my life" says Dylan. They leave the library at 11:36. The pictures have it set for 9:35, presumably 2 hours late. They seemed to expect themselves to die in the library explosion, and many have noted that Eric shooting at the cafeteria bombs is a suicide attempt. They probably thought they'd be dead by 11:35.

Paramedics and media and all the rest would arrive, and students would feel safe to run out into the parking lot again. Maybe the whole school would be evacuated that way. Then the car bombs go off at around noon.

You put way more tactical thought into these plans than E or D probably did. It's obvious they had no real tactical mindset. The two idiots barely knew how to use the guns they were killing people with.

HanShotFirst wrote:

cakeman wrote:

They were never going to shoot from the parking lot. What, pray tell, about bombs failing makes you head to the stairs? What witnesses say they waited by their cars? Nothing and none is the answer. They never started shooting "because the bombs failed." The stairs were ideal for elevation and to be blocked from the bombs and to go either direction students ran - unlike the parking lot.  There were only like five cafeteria tables near the south entrance and Eric's car.  They would never have began shooting there if they knew the bombs failed. They had a cafeteria full of victims if "plan b, shoot everyone" was engaged.

Rachel and Richard are shot because they need the west entrance clear to enter when students turn around. Daniel and Lance and Sean are shot because Dylan needs the stairs clear to descend them and fire at those fleeing. None of these are "plan B", "lets just shoot everyone now that the bombs failed". They bloody said repeatedly the bomb is about to work while in the library! Dylan bloody checked to see what was up with the bombs, he didn't walk past knowing they had already failed!   These are simply facts as far as I'm concerned. Dylan also very clearly stated they were always going to "charge through the school."

They also could've done a lot more damage if damaging the school was the reason for wandering around. Simply put, they could've damaged, instead of wandered. They surely expected cops to be in the building. Eric waves, meaning "Cops sighted" almost as soon as they come back to the cafeteria.

My best guess for the original plan. At 11:14, the diversion goes off, causing a fire. People respond, and the second diversion is triggered by their motion to go off, injuring them and diverting the response to the bigger scene at the school.

At 11:15 to 11:20, the first cafeteria bomb explodes. Dylan descends the stairs, and fires with the TEC-9 at those fleeing the exits, while Eric shoots with the carbine from his higher vantage point at police and any others who make it past Dylan.  Probably both tossing pipe bombs and crickets all the while.

Eric seemed to be concerned with killing cops, and Dylan with the murder spree. Eric, not Dylan, exchanges gunfire with police outside. Nearly all if not all the bullet casings fired at cops in the library are from Eric's shotgun. Dylan, not Eric, is first into the library, saying he always wanted to do this, and probably asking "are you still with me" while Eric was busy with police.

Dylan did not fire the TEC-9 more than three times because he was saving his ammunition for those fleeing from the bombs. Eventually, people learn to flee that way is death, and flee the other way, up the cafeteria stairs.

At this point they "charge the school", through the west entrance.  Maybe here is where they use their knives. They would be a lot closer to people at this point, Dylan mentions the charging bit as particularly nerve-racking, and they would have used a bit of ammo on those fleeing into the parking lot.

All evidence points to the second cafeteria bomb being set for 11:35. "the most nerve racking FIFTEEN MINUTES of my life" says Dylan. They leave the library at 11:36. The pictures have it set for 9:35, presumably 2 hours late. They seemed to expect themselves to die in the library explosion, and many have noted that Eric shooting at the cafeteria bombs is a suicide attempt. They probably thought they'd be dead by 11:35.

Paramedics and media and all the rest would arrive, and students would feel safe to run out into the parking lot again. Maybe the whole school would be evacuated that way. Then the car bombs go off at around noon.

You put way more tactical thought into these plans than E or D probably did. It's obvious they had no real tactical mindset. The two idiots barely knew how to use the guns they were killing people with.

Not to mention their propane bombs were complete failures. By the way, there was no chance the bombs were going to explode with the ammo these two were using. They were completely delusional. Their plan was a failure from the beginning. Columbine High School did not get lucky that the propane bombs didn't go off. It was just two morons who were way in over their head.

HanShotFirst wrote:

cakeman wrote:

They were never going to shoot from the parking lot. What, pray tell, about bombs failing makes you head to the stairs? What witnesses say they waited by their cars? Nothing and none is the answer. They never started shooting "because the bombs failed." The stairs were ideal for elevation and to be blocked from the bombs and to go either direction students ran - unlike the parking lot.  There were only like five cafeteria tables near the south entrance and Eric's car.  They would never have began shooting there if they knew the bombs failed. They had a cafeteria full of victims if "plan b, shoot everyone" was engaged.

Rachel and Richard are shot because they need the west entrance clear to enter when students turn around. Daniel and Lance and Sean are shot because Dylan needs the stairs clear to descend them and fire at those fleeing. None of these are "plan B", "lets just shoot everyone now that the bombs failed". They bloody said repeatedly the bomb is about to work while in the library! Dylan bloody checked to see what was up with the bombs, he didn't walk past knowing they had already failed!   These are simply facts as far as I'm concerned. Dylan also very clearly stated they were always going to "charge through the school."

They also could've done a lot more damage if damaging the school was the reason for wandering around. Simply put, they could've damaged, instead of wandered. They surely expected cops to be in the building. Eric waves, meaning "Cops sighted" almost as soon as they come back to the cafeteria.

My best guess for the original plan. At 11:14, the diversion goes off, causing a fire. People respond, and the second diversion is triggered by their motion to go off, injuring them and diverting the response to the bigger scene at the school.

At 11:15 to 11:20, the first cafeteria bomb explodes. Dylan descends the stairs, and fires with the TEC-9 at those fleeing the exits, while Eric shoots with the carbine from his higher vantage point at police and any others who make it past Dylan.  Probably both tossing pipe bombs and crickets all the while.

Eric seemed to be concerned with killing cops, and Dylan with the murder spree. Eric, not Dylan, exchanges gunfire with police outside. Nearly all if not all the bullet casings fired at cops in the library are from Eric's shotgun. Dylan, not Eric, is first into the library, saying he always wanted to do this, and probably asking "are you still with me" while Eric was busy with police.

Dylan did not fire the TEC-9 more than three times because he was saving his ammunition for those fleeing from the bombs. Eventually, people learn to flee that way is death, and flee the other way, up the cafeteria stairs.

At this point they "charge the school", through the west entrance.  Maybe here is where they use their knives. They would be a lot closer to people at this point, Dylan mentions the charging bit as particularly nerve-racking, and they would have used a bit of ammo on those fleeing into the parking lot.

All evidence points to the second cafeteria bomb being set for 11:35. "the most nerve racking FIFTEEN MINUTES of my life" says Dylan. They leave the library at 11:36. The pictures have it set for 9:35, presumably 2 hours late. They seemed to expect themselves to die in the library explosion, and many have noted that Eric shooting at the cafeteria bombs is a suicide attempt. They probably thought they'd be dead by 11:35.

Paramedics and media and all the rest would arrive, and students would feel safe to run out into the parking lot again. Maybe the whole school would be evacuated that way. Then the car bombs go off at around noon.

You put way more tactical thought into these plans than E or D probably did. It's obvious they had no real tactical mindset. The two idiots barely knew how to use the guns they were killing people with.

That's just so obviously an excuse to be lazy and not close to the truth. The truth is people who subscribe to the orthodox story are putting less logical thought into their plans than two teenagers did. You haven't responded to a single point. Also, the orthodox story says they had a more "tactical mindest" than I give them, copying military tactics of "cross fire". So, honesty would require you giving a third version accounting for all these same facts, not hand wave away the use of inference based on the facts like in every other crime ever.

lol wrote:

HanShotFirst wrote:

cakeman wrote:

They were never going to shoot from the parking lot. What, pray tell, about bombs failing makes you head to the stairs? What witnesses say they waited by their cars? Nothing and none is the answer. They never started shooting "because the bombs failed." The stairs were ideal for elevation and to be blocked from the bombs and to go either direction students ran - unlike the parking lot.  There were only like five cafeteria tables near the south entrance and Eric's car.  They would never have began shooting there if they knew the bombs failed. They had a cafeteria full of victims if "plan b, shoot everyone" was engaged.

Rachel and Richard are shot because they need the west entrance clear to enter when students turn around. Daniel and Lance and Sean are shot because Dylan needs the stairs clear to descend them and fire at those fleeing. None of these are "plan B", "lets just shoot everyone now that the bombs failed". They bloody said repeatedly the bomb is about to work while in the library! Dylan bloody checked to see what was up with the bombs, he didn't walk past knowing they had already failed!   These are simply facts as far as I'm concerned. Dylan also very clearly stated they were always going to "charge through the school."

They also could've done a lot more damage if damaging the school was the reason for wandering around. Simply put, they could've damaged, instead of wandered. They surely expected cops to be in the building. Eric waves, meaning "Cops sighted" almost as soon as they come back to the cafeteria.

My best guess for the original plan. At 11:14, the diversion goes off, causing a fire. People respond, and the second diversion is triggered by their motion to go off, injuring them and diverting the response to the bigger scene at the school.

At 11:15 to 11:20, the first cafeteria bomb explodes. Dylan descends the stairs, and fires with the TEC-9 at those fleeing the exits, while Eric shoots with the carbine from his higher vantage point at police and any others who make it past Dylan.  Probably both tossing pipe bombs and crickets all the while.

Eric seemed to be concerned with killing cops, and Dylan with the murder spree. Eric, not Dylan, exchanges gunfire with police outside. Nearly all if not all the bullet casings fired at cops in the library are from Eric's shotgun. Dylan, not Eric, is first into the library, saying he always wanted to do this, and probably asking "are you still with me" while Eric was busy with police.

Dylan did not fire the TEC-9 more than three times because he was saving his ammunition for those fleeing from the bombs. Eventually, people learn to flee that way is death, and flee the other way, up the cafeteria stairs.

At this point they "charge the school", through the west entrance.  Maybe here is where they use their knives. They would be a lot closer to people at this point, Dylan mentions the charging bit as particularly nerve-racking, and they would have used a bit of ammo on those fleeing into the parking lot.

All evidence points to the second cafeteria bomb being set for 11:35. "the most nerve racking FIFTEEN MINUTES of my life" says Dylan. They leave the library at 11:36. The pictures have it set for 9:35, presumably 2 hours late. They seemed to expect themselves to die in the library explosion, and many have noted that Eric shooting at the cafeteria bombs is a suicide attempt. They probably thought they'd be dead by 11:35.

Paramedics and media and all the rest would arrive, and students would feel safe to run out into the parking lot again. Maybe the whole school would be evacuated that way. Then the car bombs go off at around noon.

You put way more tactical thought into these plans than E or D probably did. It's obvious they had no real tactical mindset. The two idiots barely knew how to use the guns they were killing people with.

Not to mention their propane bombs were complete failures. By the way, there was no chance the bombs were going to explode with the ammo these two were using. They were completely delusional. Their plan was a failure from the beginning. Columbine High School did not get lucky that the propane bombs didn't go off. It was just two morons who were way in over their head.

Nobody disagrees their bombs failed. Just a bizarre point. Yeah, but they didn't think they were going to fail, hence they made them.

Really, the height of annoying to make a point like "They couldn't have thought the bombs failed and said the library was going to explode while they were in there. Pick one." and get "omg you're putting thought into this why"

cakeman wrote:

HanShotFirst wrote:

cakeman wrote:

They were never going to shoot from the parking lot. What, pray tell, about bombs failing makes you head to the stairs? What witnesses say they waited by their cars? Nothing and none is the answer. They never started shooting "because the bombs failed." The stairs were ideal for elevation and to be blocked from the bombs and to go either direction students ran - unlike the parking lot.  There were only like five cafeteria tables near the south entrance and Eric's car.  They would never have began shooting there if they knew the bombs failed. They had a cafeteria full of victims if "plan b, shoot everyone" was engaged.

Rachel and Richard are shot because they need the west entrance clear to enter when students turn around. Daniel and Lance and Sean are shot because Dylan needs the stairs clear to descend them and fire at those fleeing. None of these are "plan B", "lets just shoot everyone now that the bombs failed". They bloody said repeatedly the bomb is about to work while in the library! Dylan bloody checked to see what was up with the bombs, he didn't walk past knowing they had already failed!   These are simply facts as far as I'm concerned. Dylan also very clearly stated they were always going to "charge through the school."

They also could've done a lot more damage if damaging the school was the reason for wandering around. Simply put, they could've damaged, instead of wandered. They surely expected cops to be in the building. Eric waves, meaning "Cops sighted" almost as soon as they come back to the cafeteria.

My best guess for the original plan. At 11:14, the diversion goes off, causing a fire. People respond, and the second diversion is triggered by their motion to go off, injuring them and diverting the response to the bigger scene at the school.

At 11:15 to 11:20, the first cafeteria bomb explodes. Dylan descends the stairs, and fires with the TEC-9 at those fleeing the exits, while Eric shoots with the carbine from his higher vantage point at police and any others who make it past Dylan.  Probably both tossing pipe bombs and crickets all the while.

Eric seemed to be concerned with killing cops, and Dylan with the murder spree. Eric, not Dylan, exchanges gunfire with police outside. Nearly all if not all the bullet casings fired at cops in the library are from Eric's shotgun. Dylan, not Eric, is first into the library, saying he always wanted to do this, and probably asking "are you still with me" while Eric was busy with police.

Dylan did not fire the TEC-9 more than three times because he was saving his ammunition for those fleeing from the bombs. Eventually, people learn to flee that way is death, and flee the other way, up the cafeteria stairs.

At this point they "charge the school", through the west entrance.  Maybe here is where they use their knives. They would be a lot closer to people at this point, Dylan mentions the charging bit as particularly nerve-racking, and they would have used a bit of ammo on those fleeing into the parking lot.

All evidence points to the second cafeteria bomb being set for 11:35. "the most nerve racking FIFTEEN MINUTES of my life" says Dylan. They leave the library at 11:36. The pictures have it set for 9:35, presumably 2 hours late. They seemed to expect themselves to die in the library explosion, and many have noted that Eric shooting at the cafeteria bombs is a suicide attempt. They probably thought they'd be dead by 11:35.

Paramedics and media and all the rest would arrive, and students would feel safe to run out into the parking lot again. Maybe the whole school would be evacuated that way. Then the car bombs go off at around noon.

You put way more tactical thought into these plans than E or D probably did. It's obvious they had no real tactical mindset. The two idiots barely knew how to use the guns they were killing people with.

That's just so obviously an excuse to be lazy and not close to the truth. The truth is people who subscribe to the orthodox story are putting less logical thought into their plans than two teenagers did. You haven't responded to a single point. Also, the orthodox story says they had a more "tactical mindest" than I give them, copying military tactics of "cross fire". So, honesty would require you giving a third version accounting for all these same facts, not hand wave away the use of inference based on the facts like in every other crime ever.

Propane bombs or not, if they were as tactfully inclined as you believe they were, than the kill count would have been much higher even before they got to the library. These were just stupid teens who shot at people when they saw them. That's why the kids at the nearby ball fields were also shot at. The two kills they got outside were luck, the rest of the students were injured. And in terms of injured there were not as many as the opportunity afforded. I may come off as callous by talking about human beings like they are tallies on a score card, but those are truly pathetic numbers given how much a "tactical" team of two should have been capable of pulling off. Their guns were garbage, their aim was shit. The rest of their kills were at close range in the library, their targets were sitting ducks, and even then Eric injures himself because he can't even properly wield a shotgun. Even borrowing pre-designed bomb schematics they fail completely at assembling them. Nothing about what happened suggested they had an inkling of an idea about what to do if the bombs were delayed or failed. It may have been the deadliest school shooting up to that point but had those kids escaped the library or the door locked, then it would have been a different story. I doubt their pipe bombs would have gotten them into the locked classrooms. Before they knew it the school was locked down, and anyone not locked in a room had already evacuated while those two walked around the halls with their thumbs up their asses waiting for a bomb to go off in a nearly empty cafeteria. Yes, so tactful.

And if they were so sure the bombs were still going to go off like you say, then they truly were touched in the head, because why in the absolute f*** would you start firing your weapons outside before the explosion, and alerting people. That cafeteria was empty in seconds. Kinda goes against their plan to kill as many people as possible.

cakeman wrote:

Eric seemed to be concerned with killing cops, and Dylan with the murder spree. Eric, not Dylan, exchanges gunfire with police outside. Nearly all if not all the bullet casings fired at cops in the library are from Eric's shotgun.

How sure are you that the shotgun was used to fire out at police, surely only a retard would fire a shotgun from distance out of a window.

I like your theory but I am not convinced, the 15 nerve wracking minutes were between 11 when they set the bombs to 11.17 when they were supposed to detonate.

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This tell you the plan so it's really not all that much of a mystery

Tesla101 wrote:

cakeman wrote:

Eric seemed to be concerned with killing cops, and Dylan with the murder spree. Eric, not Dylan, exchanges gunfire with police outside. Nearly all if not all the bullet casings fired at cops in the library are from Eric's shotgun.

How sure are you that the shotgun was used to fire out at police, surely only a retard would fire a shotgun from distance out of a window.

I like your theory but I am not convinced, the 15 nerve wracking minutes were between 11 when they set the bombs to 11.17 when they were supposed to detonate.

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This tell you the plan so it's really not all that much of a mystery

Except that was a very general outline and there's also this different outline:
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Which clearly says "go to outside hill, wait" which means "plan B" is wrong and finding out the original plan requires more than "paper says so". Also note "first bombs", and most surmise they weren't expecting to live long enough to see the car bombs explode.

Pretty sure, Bree who is our best witness says it was his shotgun and it's shotgun shells that are by the window, and in the library it's the gun with which he's most comfortable, to the point of shooting himself with it, as Dylan seems with the TEC-9.

11 to 11:17 isn't 15 minutes first off, and what he says is when we're waiting to charge through the school, not waiting for the bombs to go off.  Regardless, your own eyes see the clock set to the 35th minute, and they left the library at 11:36. I don't even need Dylan's quote. It's icing. The second bomb was set to 11:35. They begin shooting at 11:19, which makes sense if the bombs were to go off at 11:20, which is even what books say should be expected with their clocks set to 11:17.  Nothing else about the massacre is clearly 15 minutes.  They go to Clement Park and return between 11 and 11:15 or 17, hence e. g. Eric's supposed talk with Brooks. So, they aren't waiting for fifteen minutes there. I won't say it's impossible, but it seems to me unlikely that's what Dylan is on about.

HanShotFirst wrote:

cakeman wrote:

HanShotFirst wrote:

cakeman wrote:

They were never going to shoot from the parking lot. What, pray tell, about bombs failing makes you head to the stairs? What witnesses say they waited by their cars? Nothing and none is the answer. They never started shooting "because the bombs failed." The stairs were ideal for elevation and to be blocked from the bombs and to go either direction students ran - unlike the parking lot.  There were only like five cafeteria tables near the south entrance and Eric's car.  They would never have began shooting there if they knew the bombs failed. They had a cafeteria full of victims if "plan b, shoot everyone" was engaged.

Rachel and Richard are shot because they need the west entrance clear to enter when students turn around. Daniel and Lance and Sean are shot because Dylan needs the stairs clear to descend them and fire at those fleeing. None of these are "plan B", "lets just shoot everyone now that the bombs failed". They bloody said repeatedly the bomb is about to work while in the library! Dylan bloody checked to see what was up with the bombs, he didn't walk past knowing they had already failed!   These are simply facts as far as I'm concerned. Dylan also very clearly stated they were always going to "charge through the school."

They also could've done a lot more damage if damaging the school was the reason for wandering around. Simply put, they could've damaged, instead of wandered. They surely expected cops to be in the building. Eric waves, meaning "Cops sighted" almost as soon as they come back to the cafeteria.

My best guess for the original plan. At 11:14, the diversion goes off, causing a fire. People respond, and the second diversion is triggered by their motion to go off, injuring them and diverting the response to the bigger scene at the school.

At 11:15 to 11:20, the first cafeteria bomb explodes. Dylan descends the stairs, and fires with the TEC-9 at those fleeing the exits, while Eric shoots with the carbine from his higher vantage point at police and any others who make it past Dylan.  Probably both tossing pipe bombs and crickets all the while.

Eric seemed to be concerned with killing cops, and Dylan with the murder spree. Eric, not Dylan, exchanges gunfire with police outside. Nearly all if not all the bullet casings fired at cops in the library are from Eric's shotgun. Dylan, not Eric, is first into the library, saying he always wanted to do this, and probably asking "are you still with me" while Eric was busy with police.

Dylan did not fire the TEC-9 more than three times because he was saving his ammunition for those fleeing from the bombs. Eventually, people learn to flee that way is death, and flee the other way, up the cafeteria stairs.

At this point they "charge the school", through the west entrance.  Maybe here is where they use their knives. They would be a lot closer to people at this point, Dylan mentions the charging bit as particularly nerve-racking, and they would have used a bit of ammo on those fleeing into the parking lot.

All evidence points to the second cafeteria bomb being set for 11:35. "the most nerve racking FIFTEEN MINUTES of my life" says Dylan. They leave the library at 11:36. The pictures have it set for 9:35, presumably 2 hours late. They seemed to expect themselves to die in the library explosion, and many have noted that Eric shooting at the cafeteria bombs is a suicide attempt. They probably thought they'd be dead by 11:35.

Paramedics and media and all the rest would arrive, and students would feel safe to run out into the parking lot again. Maybe the whole school would be evacuated that way. Then the car bombs go off at around noon.

You put way more tactical thought into these plans than E or D probably did. It's obvious they had no real tactical mindset. The two idiots barely knew how to use the guns they were killing people with.

That's just so obviously an excuse to be lazy and not close to the truth. The truth is people who subscribe to the orthodox story are putting less logical thought into their plans than two teenagers did. You haven't responded to a single point. Also, the orthodox story says they had a more "tactical mindest" than I give them, copying military tactics of "cross fire". So, honesty would require you giving a third version accounting for all these same facts, not hand wave away the use of inference based on the facts like in every other crime ever.

Propane bombs or not, if they were as tactfully inclined as you believe they were, than the kill count would have been much higher even before they got to the library. These were just stupid teens who shot at people when they saw them. That's why the kids at the nearby ball fields were also shot at. The two kills they got outside were luck, the rest of the students were injured. And in terms of injured there were not as many as the opportunity afforded. I may come off as callous by talking about human beings like they are tallies on a score card, but those are truly pathetic numbers given how much a "tactical" team of two should have been capable of pulling off. Their guns were garbage, their aim was shit. The rest of their kills were at close range in the library, their targets were sitting ducks, and even then Eric injures himself because he can't even properly wield a shotgun. Even borrowing pre-designed bomb schematics they fail completely at assembling them. Nothing about what happened suggested they had an inkling of an idea about what to do if the bombs were delayed or failed. It may have been the deadliest school shooting up to that point but had those kids escaped the library or the door locked, then it would have been a different story. I doubt their pipe bombs would have gotten them into the locked classrooms. Before they knew it the school was locked down, and anyone not locked in a room had already evacuated while those two walked around the halls with their thumbs up their asses waiting for a bomb to go off in a nearly empty cafeteria. Yes, so tactful.

And if they were so sure the bombs were still going to go off like you say, then they truly were touched in the head, because why in the absolute f*** would you start firing your weapons outside before the explosion, and alerting people. That cafeteria was empty in seconds. Kinda goes against their plan to kill as many people as possible.

"the kill count would have been much higher even before they got to the library." Makes literally no sense. You're not arguing points, you're just dogmatically offering them.   You don't even offer a reason for why they shot who they shot, which is the strongest of signs that your theory (if you were honest enough to offer one) is bunk, when major facts are explained with "just because". Also shooting whoever else they could by the sports fields doesn't harm my theory in the slightest. Harms yours (again, if you had one) that they would shoot a single soul outside, even worse for no reason. Why are they still shooting outside if the bombs failed? Why did they shoot those by the west entrance and those on the stairs? Why were they even on the stairs? Crickets.

"Their guns were garbage, their aim was shit. The rest of their kills were at close range in the library, their targets were sitting ducks, and even then Eric injures himself because he can't even properly wield a shotgun. " Not one of these did I call into question. Refutes nothing I said, arguing with yourself.

"Nothing about what happened suggested they had an inkling of an idea about what to do if the bombs were delayed or failed." That helps my case. They never planned for the bombs failing. Yep. They thought they worked. No plan B. Glad you agree. No clue what your theory could be if you don't buy the usual story or mine.

"It may have been the deadliest school shooting up to that point but had those kids escaped the library or the door locked, then it would have been a different story. I doubt their pipe bombs would have gotten them into the locked classrooms. Before they knew it the school was locked down, and anyone not locked in a room had already evacuated while those two walked around the halls with their thumbs up their asses waiting for a bomb to go off in a nearly empty cafeteria. " Not disputing a word I said again; arguing with yourself.

"And if they were so sure the bombs were still going to go off like you say, then they truly were touched in the head, because why in the absolute f*** would you start firing your weapons outside before the explosion, and alerting people." You answered your own question above. They were confident the bombs were exploding the next minute. They never thought they'd fail; "Nothing about what happened suggested they had an inkling of an idea about what to do if the bombs were delayed or failed".  You haven't answered my question which is far worse for your case, why in the fuck start shooting outside in the first place if you knew the bombs failed?  Yes, the cafeteria was empty in seconds. Why not start shooting in the cafeteria after planning for the cafeteria to be full, unless you thought the bombs were going to drag them outside? Worse, why say in the library that the library is going to explode? So they didn't think "the bombs" failed. That's the death of plan B. Over. done.

Baffled that anybody can vote up your post. This is pathetic. If they were tactful enough to know people could turn around in the library and use two bombs, then uh, their guns would've worked better and they would have already poisoned everybody around or something, because reasons.

cakeman wrote:

HanShotFirst wrote:

cakeman wrote:

HanShotFirst wrote:

cakeman wrote:

They were never going to shoot from the parking lot. What, pray tell, about bombs failing makes you head to the stairs? What witnesses say they waited by their cars? Nothing and none is the answer. They never started shooting "because the bombs failed." The stairs were ideal for elevation and to be blocked from the bombs and to go either direction students ran - unlike the parking lot.  There were only like five cafeteria tables near the south entrance and Eric's car.  They would never have began shooting there if they knew the bombs failed. They had a cafeteria full of victims if "plan b, shoot everyone" was engaged.

Rachel and Richard are shot because they need the west entrance clear to enter when students turn around. Daniel and Lance and Sean are shot because Dylan needs the stairs clear to descend them and fire at those fleeing. None of these are "plan B", "lets just shoot everyone now that the bombs failed". They bloody said repeatedly the bomb is about to work while in the library! Dylan bloody checked to see what was up with the bombs, he didn't walk past knowing they had already failed!   These are simply facts as far as I'm concerned. Dylan also very clearly stated they were always going to "charge through the school."

They also could've done a lot more damage if damaging the school was the reason for wandering around. Simply put, they could've damaged, instead of wandered. They surely expected cops to be in the building. Eric waves, meaning "Cops sighted" almost as soon as they come back to the cafeteria.

My best guess for the original plan. At 11:14, the diversion goes off, causing a fire. People respond, and the second diversion is triggered by their motion to go off, injuring them and diverting the response to the bigger scene at the school.

At 11:15 to 11:20, the first cafeteria bomb explodes. Dylan descends the stairs, and fires with the TEC-9 at those fleeing the exits, while Eric shoots with the carbine from his higher vantage point at police and any others who make it past Dylan.  Probably both tossing pipe bombs and crickets all the while.

Eric seemed to be concerned with killing cops, and Dylan with the murder spree. Eric, not Dylan, exchanges gunfire with police outside. Nearly all if not all the bullet casings fired at cops in the library are from Eric's shotgun. Dylan, not Eric, is first into the library, saying he always wanted to do this, and probably asking "are you still with me" while Eric was busy with police.

Dylan did not fire the TEC-9 more than three times because he was saving his ammunition for those fleeing from the bombs. Eventually, people learn to flee that way is death, and flee the other way, up the cafeteria stairs.

At this point they "charge the school", through the west entrance.  Maybe here is where they use their knives. They would be a lot closer to people at this point, Dylan mentions the charging bit as particularly nerve-racking, and they would have used a bit of ammo on those fleeing into the parking lot.

All evidence points to the second cafeteria bomb being set for 11:35. "the most nerve racking FIFTEEN MINUTES of my life" says Dylan. They leave the library at 11:36. The pictures have it set for 9:35, presumably 2 hours late. They seemed to expect themselves to die in the library explosion, and many have noted that Eric shooting at the cafeteria bombs is a suicide attempt. They probably thought they'd be dead by 11:35.

Paramedics and media and all the rest would arrive, and students would feel safe to run out into the parking lot again. Maybe the whole school would be evacuated that way. Then the car bombs go off at around noon.

You put way more tactical thought into these plans than E or D probably did. It's obvious they had no real tactical mindset. The two idiots barely knew how to use the guns they were killing people with.

That's just so obviously an excuse to be lazy and not close to the truth. The truth is people who subscribe to the orthodox story are putting less logical thought into their plans than two teenagers did. You haven't responded to a single point. Also, the orthodox story says they had a more "tactical mindest" than I give them, copying military tactics of "cross fire". So, honesty would require you giving a third version accounting for all these same facts, not hand wave away the use of inference based on the facts like in every other crime ever.

Propane bombs or not, if they were as tactfully inclined as you believe they were, than the kill count would have been much higher even before they got to the library. These were just stupid teens who shot at people when they saw them. That's why the kids at the nearby ball fields were also shot at. The two kills they got outside were luck, the rest of the students were injured. And in terms of injured there were not as many as the opportunity afforded. I may come off as callous by talking about human beings like they are tallies on a score card, but those are truly pathetic numbers given how much a "tactical" team of two should have been capable of pulling off. Their guns were garbage, their aim was shit. The rest of their kills were at close range in the library, their targets were sitting ducks, and even then Eric injures himself because he can't even properly wield a shotgun. Even borrowing pre-designed bomb schematics they fail completely at assembling them. Nothing about what happened suggested they had an inkling of an idea about what to do if the bombs were delayed or failed. It may have been the deadliest school shooting up to that point but had those kids escaped the library or the door locked, then it would have been a different story. I doubt their pipe bombs would have gotten them into the locked classrooms. Before they knew it the school was locked down, and anyone not locked in a room had already evacuated while those two walked around the halls with their thumbs up their asses waiting for a bomb to go off in a nearly empty cafeteria. Yes, so tactful.

And if they were so sure the bombs were still going to go off like you say, then they truly were touched in the head, because why in the absolute f*** would you start firing your weapons outside before the explosion, and alerting people. That cafeteria was empty in seconds. Kinda goes against their plan to kill as many people as possible.

"the kill count would have been much higher even before they got to the library." Makes literally no sense. You're not arguing points, you're just dogmatically offering them.   You don't even offer a reason for why they shot who they shot, which is the strongest of signs that your theory (if you were honest enough to offer one) is bunk, when major facts are explained with "just because". Also shooting whoever else they could by the sports fields doesn't harm my theory in the slightest. Harms yours (again, if you had one) that they would shoot a single soul outside, even worse for no reason. Why are they still shooting outside if the bombs failed? Why did they shoot those by the west entrance and those on the stairs? Why were they even on the stairs? Crickets.

"Their guns were garbage, their aim was shit. The rest of their kills were at close range in the library, their targets were sitting ducks, and even then Eric injures himself because he can't even properly wield a shotgun. " Not one of these did I call into question. Refutes nothing I said, arguing with yourself.

"Nothing about what happened suggested they had an inkling of an idea about what to do if the bombs were delayed or failed." That helps my case. They never planned for the bombs failing. Yep. They thought they worked. No plan B. Glad you agree. No clue what your theory could be if you don't buy the usual story or mine.

"It may have been the deadliest school shooting up to that point but had those kids escaped the library or the door locked, then it would have been a different story. I doubt their pipe bombs would have gotten them into the locked classrooms. Before they knew it the school was locked down, and anyone not locked in a room had already evacuated while those two walked around the halls with their thumbs up their asses waiting for a bomb to go off in a nearly empty cafeteria. " Not disputing a word I said again; arguing with yourself.

"And if they were so sure the bombs were still going to go off like you say, then they truly were touched in the head, because why in the absolute f*** would you start firing your weapons outside before the explosion, and alerting people." You answered your own question above. They were confident the bombs were exploding the next minute.  They never thought they'd fail; "Nothing about what happened suggested they had an inkling of an idea about what to do if the bombs were delayed or failed".  You haven't answered my question which is far worse for your case, why in the fuck start shooting outside in the first place if you knew the bombs failed?  Yes, the cafeteria was empty in seconds. Why not start shooting in the cafeteria after planning for the cafeteria to be full, unless you thought the bombs were going to drag them outside? Worse, why say in the library that the library is going to explode? So they didn't think "the bombs" failed. That's the death of plan B. Over. done.

Baffled that anybody can vote up your post. This is pathetic. If they were tactful enough to know people could turn around in the library and use two bombs, then uh, their guns would've worked better and they would have already poisoned everybody around or something, because reasons.

You seem to have your own idea of what the plan was and what plan B was if they had one. Fine we get it. You post it on every single thread you can in large paragraphs. Others have their own ideas. We cannot have any idea what their real plan was. It could have changed that morning. They could have very well have a plan B that was not written down. Perhaps they used improv. There is no way to know bc the only two that knew what was going on in their head that day are gone. Let others give their ideas without immediately shooting them down and telling them they are wrong. You don't know anymore than they do

Lizpuff wrote:

cakeman wrote:

HanShotFirst wrote:

cakeman wrote:

HanShotFirst wrote:

cakeman wrote:

They were never going to shoot from the parking lot. What, pray tell, about bombs failing makes you head to the stairs? What witnesses say they waited by their cars? Nothing and none is the answer. They never started shooting "because the bombs failed." The stairs were ideal for elevation and to be blocked from the bombs and to go either direction students ran - unlike the parking lot.  There were only like five cafeteria tables near the south entrance and Eric's car.  They would never have began shooting there if they knew the bombs failed. They had a cafeteria full of victims if "plan b, shoot everyone" was engaged.

Rachel and Richard are shot because they need the west entrance clear to enter when students turn around. Daniel and Lance and Sean are shot because Dylan needs the stairs clear to descend them and fire at those fleeing. None of these are "plan B", "lets just shoot everyone now that the bombs failed". They bloody said repeatedly the bomb is about to work while in the library! Dylan bloody checked to see what was up with the bombs, he didn't walk past knowing they had already failed!   These are simply facts as far as I'm concerned. Dylan also very clearly stated they were always going to "charge through the school."

They also could've done a lot more damage if damaging the school was the reason for wandering around. Simply put, they could've damaged, instead of wandered. They surely expected cops to be in the building. Eric waves, meaning "Cops sighted" almost as soon as they come back to the cafeteria.

My best guess for the original plan. At 11:14, the diversion goes off, causing a fire. People respond, and the second diversion is triggered by their motion to go off, injuring them and diverting the response to the bigger scene at the school.

At 11:15 to 11:20, the first cafeteria bomb explodes. Dylan descends the stairs, and fires with the TEC-9 at those fleeing the exits, while Eric shoots with the carbine from his higher vantage point at police and any others who make it past Dylan.  Probably both tossing pipe bombs and crickets all the while.

Eric seemed to be concerned with killing cops, and Dylan with the murder spree. Eric, not Dylan, exchanges gunfire with police outside. Nearly all if not all the bullet casings fired at cops in the library are from Eric's shotgun. Dylan, not Eric, is first into the library, saying he always wanted to do this, and probably asking "are you still with me" while Eric was busy with police.

Dylan did not fire the TEC-9 more than three times because he was saving his ammunition for those fleeing from the bombs. Eventually, people learn to flee that way is death, and flee the other way, up the cafeteria stairs.

At this point they "charge the school", through the west entrance.  Maybe here is where they use their knives. They would be a lot closer to people at this point, Dylan mentions the charging bit as particularly nerve-racking, and they would have used a bit of ammo on those fleeing into the parking lot.

All evidence points to the second cafeteria bomb being set for 11:35. "the most nerve racking FIFTEEN MINUTES of my life" says Dylan. They leave the library at 11:36. The pictures have it set for 9:35, presumably 2 hours late. They seemed to expect themselves to die in the library explosion, and many have noted that Eric shooting at the cafeteria bombs is a suicide attempt. They probably thought they'd be dead by 11:35.

Paramedics and media and all the rest would arrive, and students would feel safe to run out into the parking lot again. Maybe the whole school would be evacuated that way. Then the car bombs go off at around noon.

You put way more tactical thought into these plans than E or D probably did. It's obvious they had no real tactical mindset. The two idiots barely knew how to use the guns they were killing people with.

That's just so obviously an excuse to be lazy and not close to the truth. The truth is people who subscribe to the orthodox story are putting less logical thought into their plans than two teenagers did. You haven't responded to a single point. Also, the orthodox story says they had a more "tactical mindest" than I give them, copying military tactics of "cross fire". So, honesty would require you giving a third version accounting for all these same facts, not hand wave away the use of inference based on the facts like in every other crime ever.

Propane bombs or not, if they were as tactfully inclined as you believe they were, than the kill count would have been much higher even before they got to the library. These were just stupid teens who shot at people when they saw them. That's why the kids at the nearby ball fields were also shot at. The two kills they got outside were luck, the rest of the students were injured. And in terms of injured there were not as many as the opportunity afforded. I may come off as callous by talking about human beings like they are tallies on a score card, but those are truly pathetic numbers given how much a "tactical" team of two should have been capable of pulling off. Their guns were garbage, their aim was shit. The rest of their kills were at close range in the library, their targets were sitting ducks, and even then Eric injures himself because he can't even properly wield a shotgun. Even borrowing pre-designed bomb schematics they fail completely at assembling them. Nothing about what happened suggested they had an inkling of an idea about what to do if the bombs were delayed or failed. It may have been the deadliest school shooting up to that point but had those kids escaped the library or the door locked, then it would have been a different story. I doubt their pipe bombs would have gotten them into the locked classrooms. Before they knew it the school was locked down, and anyone not locked in a room had already evacuated while those two walked around the halls with their thumbs up their asses waiting for a bomb to go off in a nearly empty cafeteria. Yes, so tactful.

And if they were so sure the bombs were still going to go off like you say, then they truly were touched in the head, because why in the absolute f*** would you start firing your weapons outside before the explosion, and alerting people. That cafeteria was empty in seconds. Kinda goes against their plan to kill as many people as possible.

"the kill count would have been much higher even before they got to the library." Makes literally no sense. You're not arguing points, you're just dogmatically offering them.   You don't even offer a reason for why they shot who they shot, which is the strongest of signs that your theory (if you were honest enough to offer one) is bunk, when major facts are explained with "just because". Also shooting whoever else they could by the sports fields doesn't harm my theory in the slightest. Harms yours (again, if you had one) that they would shoot a single soul outside, even worse for no reason. Why are they still shooting outside if the bombs failed? Why did they shoot those by the west entrance and those on the stairs? Why were they even on the stairs? Crickets.

"Their guns were garbage, their aim was shit. The rest of their kills were at close range in the library, their targets were sitting ducks, and even then Eric injures himself because he can't even properly wield a shotgun. " Not one of these did I call into question. Refutes nothing I said, arguing with yourself.

"Nothing about what happened suggested they had an inkling of an idea about what to do if the bombs were delayed or failed." That helps my case. They never planned for the bombs failing. Yep. They thought they worked. No plan B. Glad you agree. No clue what your theory could be if you don't buy the usual story or mine.

"It may have been the deadliest school shooting up to that point but had those kids escaped the library or the door locked, then it would have been a different story. I doubt their pipe bombs would have gotten them into the locked classrooms. Before they knew it the school was locked down, and anyone not locked in a room had already evacuated while those two walked around the halls with their thumbs up their asses waiting for a bomb to go off in a nearly empty cafeteria. " Not disputing a word I said again; arguing with yourself.

"And if they were so sure the bombs were still going to go off like you say, then they truly were touched in the head, because why in the absolute f*** would you start firing your weapons outside before the explosion, and alerting people." You answered your own question above. They were confident the bombs were exploding the next minute.  They never thought they'd fail; "Nothing about what happened suggested they had an inkling of an idea about what to do if the bombs were delayed or failed".  You haven't answered my question which is far worse for your case, why in the fuck start shooting outside in the first place if you knew the bombs failed?  Yes, the cafeteria was empty in seconds. Why not start shooting in the cafeteria after planning for the cafeteria to be full, unless you thought the bombs were going to drag them outside? Worse, why say in the library that the library is going to explode? So they didn't think "the bombs" failed. That's the death of plan B. Over. done.

Baffled that anybody can vote up your post. This is pathetic. If they were tactful enough to know people could turn around in the library and use two bombs, then uh, their guns would've worked better and they would have already poisoned everybody around or something, because reasons.

You seem to have your own idea of what the plan was and what plan B was if they had one.  Fine we get it.  You post it on every single thread you can in large paragraphs.  Others have their own ideas.  We cannot have any idea what their real plan was.  It could have changed that morning.   They could have very well have a plan B that was not written down.  Perhaps they used improv.  There is no way to know bc the only two that knew what was going on in their head that day are gone.  Let others give their ideas without immediately shooting them down and telling them they are wrong.  You don't know anymore than they do

Seconded Lizpuff!

Nobody that was shot outside was done for any strategic reasoning. No they were not clearing any paths. An explosion would've cleared that entire campus for them and they would've had plenty of time to get to the top of the hill. They were obviously just taunting the kids in the library

Screamingophelia wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

cakeman wrote:

HanShotFirst wrote:

cakeman wrote:

HanShotFirst wrote:

cakeman wrote:

They were never going to shoot from the parking lot. What, pray tell, about bombs failing makes you head to the stairs? What witnesses say they waited by their cars? Nothing and none is the answer. They never started shooting "because the bombs failed." The stairs were ideal for elevation and to be blocked from the bombs and to go either direction students ran - unlike the parking lot.  There were only like five cafeteria tables near the south entrance and Eric's car.  They would never have began shooting there if they knew the bombs failed. They had a cafeteria full of victims if "plan b, shoot everyone" was engaged.

Rachel and Richard are shot because they need the west entrance clear to enter when students turn around. Daniel and Lance and Sean are shot because Dylan needs the stairs clear to descend them and fire at those fleeing. None of these are "plan B", "lets just shoot everyone now that the bombs failed". They bloody said repeatedly the bomb is about to work while in the library! Dylan bloody checked to see what was up with the bombs, he didn't walk past knowing they had already failed!   These are simply facts as far as I'm concerned. Dylan also very clearly stated they were always going to "charge through the school."

They also could've done a lot more damage if damaging the school was the reason for wandering around. Simply put, they could've damaged, instead of wandered. They surely expected cops to be in the building. Eric waves, meaning "Cops sighted" almost as soon as they come back to the cafeteria.

My best guess for the original plan. At 11:14, the diversion goes off, causing a fire. People respond, and the second diversion is triggered by their motion to go off, injuring them and diverting the response to the bigger scene at the school.

At 11:15 to 11:20, the first cafeteria bomb explodes. Dylan descends the stairs, and fires with the TEC-9 at those fleeing the exits, while Eric shoots with the carbine from his higher vantage point at police and any others who make it past Dylan.  Probably both tossing pipe bombs and crickets all the while.

Eric seemed to be concerned with killing cops, and Dylan with the murder spree. Eric, not Dylan, exchanges gunfire with police outside. Nearly all if not all the bullet casings fired at cops in the library are from Eric's shotgun. Dylan, not Eric, is first into the library, saying he always wanted to do this, and probably asking "are you still with me" while Eric was busy with police.

Dylan did not fire the TEC-9 more than three times because he was saving his ammunition for those fleeing from the bombs. Eventually, people learn to flee that way is death, and flee the other way, up the cafeteria stairs.

At this point they "charge the school", through the west entrance.  Maybe here is where they use their knives. They would be a lot closer to people at this point, Dylan mentions the charging bit as particularly nerve-racking, and they would have used a bit of ammo on those fleeing into the parking lot.

All evidence points to the second cafeteria bomb being set for 11:35. "the most nerve racking FIFTEEN MINUTES of my life" says Dylan. They leave the library at 11:36. The pictures have it set for 9:35, presumably 2 hours late. They seemed to expect themselves to die in the library explosion, and many have noted that Eric shooting at the cafeteria bombs is a suicide attempt. They probably thought they'd be dead by 11:35.

Paramedics and media and all the rest would arrive, and students would feel safe to run out into the parking lot again. Maybe the whole school would be evacuated that way. Then the car bombs go off at around noon.

You put way more tactical thought into these plans than E or D probably did. It's obvious they had no real tactical mindset. The two idiots barely knew how to use the guns they were killing people with.

That's just so obviously an excuse to be lazy and not close to the truth. The truth is people who subscribe to the orthodox story are putting less logical thought into their plans than two teenagers did. You haven't responded to a single point. Also, the orthodox story says they had a more "tactical mindest" than I give them, copying military tactics of "cross fire". So, honesty would require you giving a third version accounting for all these same facts, not hand wave away the use of inference based on the facts like in every other crime ever.

Propane bombs or not, if they were as tactfully inclined as you believe they were, than the kill count would have been much higher even before they got to the library. These were just stupid teens who shot at people when they saw them. That's why the kids at the nearby ball fields were also shot at. The two kills they got outside were luck, the rest of the students were injured. And in terms of injured there were not as many as the opportunity afforded. I may come off as callous by talking about human beings like they are tallies on a score card, but those are truly pathetic numbers given how much a "tactical" team of two should have been capable of pulling off. Their guns were garbage, their aim was shit. The rest of their kills were at close range in the library, their targets were sitting ducks, and even then Eric injures himself because he can't even properly wield a shotgun. Even borrowing pre-designed bomb schematics they fail completely at assembling them. Nothing about what happened suggested they had an inkling of an idea about what to do if the bombs were delayed or failed. It may have been the deadliest school shooting up to that point but had those kids escaped the library or the door locked, then it would have been a different story. I doubt their pipe bombs would have gotten them into the locked classrooms. Before they knew it the school was locked down, and anyone not locked in a room had already evacuated while those two walked around the halls with their thumbs up their asses waiting for a bomb to go off in a nearly empty cafeteria. Yes, so tactful.

And if they were so sure the bombs were still going to go off like you say, then they truly were touched in the head, because why in the absolute f*** would you start firing your weapons outside before the explosion, and alerting people. That cafeteria was empty in seconds. Kinda goes against their plan to kill as many people as possible.

"the kill count would have been much higher even before they got to the library." Makes literally no sense. You're not arguing points, you're just dogmatically offering them.   You don't even offer a reason for why they shot who they shot, which is the strongest of signs that your theory (if you were honest enough to offer one) is bunk, when major facts are explained with "just because". Also shooting whoever else they could by the sports fields doesn't harm my theory in the slightest. Harms yours (again, if you had one) that they would shoot a single soul outside, even worse for no reason. Why are they still shooting outside if the bombs failed? Why did they shoot those by the west entrance and those on the stairs? Why were they even on the stairs? Crickets.

"Their guns were garbage, their aim was shit. The rest of their kills were at close range in the library, their targets were sitting ducks, and even then Eric injures himself because he can't even properly wield a shotgun. " Not one of these did I call into question. Refutes nothing I said, arguing with yourself.

"Nothing about what happened suggested they had an inkling of an idea about what to do if the bombs were delayed or failed." That helps my case. They never planned for the bombs failing. Yep. They thought they worked. No plan B. Glad you agree. No clue what your theory could be if you don't buy the usual story or mine.

"It may have been the deadliest school shooting up to that point but had those kids escaped the library or the door locked, then it would have been a different story. I doubt their pipe bombs would have gotten them into the locked classrooms. Before they knew it the school was locked down, and anyone not locked in a room had already evacuated while those two walked around the halls with their thumbs up their asses waiting for a bomb to go off in a nearly empty cafeteria. " Not disputing a word I said again; arguing with yourself.

"And if they were so sure the bombs were still going to go off like you say, then they truly were touched in the head, because why in the absolute f*** would you start firing your weapons outside before the explosion, and alerting people." You answered your own question above. They were confident the bombs were exploding the next minute.  They never thought they'd fail; "Nothing about what happened suggested they had an inkling of an idea about what to do if the bombs were delayed or failed".  You haven't answered my question which is far worse for your case, why in the fuck start shooting outside in the first place if you knew the bombs failed?  Yes, the cafeteria was empty in seconds. Why not start shooting in the cafeteria after planning for the cafeteria to be full, unless you thought the bombs were going to drag them outside? Worse, why say in the library that the library is going to explode? So they didn't think "the bombs" failed. That's the death of plan B. Over. done.

Baffled that anybody can vote up your post. This is pathetic. If they were tactful enough to know people could turn around in the library and use two bombs, then uh, their guns would've worked better and they would have already poisoned everybody around or something, because reasons.

You seem to have your own idea of what the plan was and what plan B was if they had one.  Fine we get it.  You post it on every single thread you can in large paragraphs.  Others have their own ideas.  We cannot have any idea what their real plan was.  It could have changed that morning.   They could have very well have a plan B that was not written down.  Perhaps they used improv.  There is no way to know bc the only two that knew what was going on in their head that day are gone.  Let others give their ideas without immediately shooting them down and telling them they are wrong.  You don't know anymore than they do

Seconded Lizpuff!

Third.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - You're being way too aggressive and rude towards people who don't agree with you. And it makes me uncomfortable how you're always throwing around the words "facts" and "truth". No one knows the 100% truth because the only 2 people who do know are dead. You have your opinions and that's fine but you need to calm down with jumping all over everybody in every thread when they don't agree with you.

Of course people aren't going to want to "answer your questions" or debate with you. It's because of how you're acting.

Jenn wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

cakeman wrote:

HanShotFirst wrote:

cakeman wrote:

HanShotFirst wrote:

cakeman wrote:

They were never going to shoot from the parking lot. What, pray tell, about bombs failing makes you head to the stairs? What witnesses say they waited by their cars? Nothing and none is the answer. They never started shooting "because the bombs failed." The stairs were ideal for elevation and to be blocked from the bombs and to go either direction students ran - unlike the parking lot.  There were only like five cafeteria tables near the south entrance and Eric's car.  They would never have began shooting there if they knew the bombs failed. They had a cafeteria full of victims if "plan b, shoot everyone" was engaged.

Rachel and Richard are shot because they need the west entrance clear to enter when students turn around. Daniel and Lance and Sean are shot because Dylan needs the stairs clear to descend them and fire at those fleeing. None of these are "plan B", "lets just shoot everyone now that the bombs failed". They bloody said repeatedly the bomb is about to work while in the library! Dylan bloody checked to see what was up with the bombs, he didn't walk past knowing they had already failed!   These are simply facts as far as I'm concerned. Dylan also very clearly stated they were always going to "charge through the school."

They also could've done a lot more damage if damaging the school was the reason for wandering around. Simply put, they could've damaged, instead of wandered. They surely expected cops to be in the building. Eric waves, meaning "Cops sighted" almost as soon as they come back to the cafeteria.

My best guess for the original plan. At 11:14, the diversion goes off, causing a fire. People respond, and the second diversion is triggered by their motion to go off, injuring them and diverting the response to the bigger scene at the school.

At 11:15 to 11:20, the first cafeteria bomb explodes. Dylan descends the stairs, and fires with the TEC-9 at those fleeing the exits, while Eric shoots with the carbine from his higher vantage point at police and any others who make it past Dylan.  Probably both tossing pipe bombs and crickets all the while.

Eric seemed to be concerned with killing cops, and Dylan with the murder spree. Eric, not Dylan, exchanges gunfire with police outside. Nearly all if not all the bullet casings fired at cops in the library are from Eric's shotgun. Dylan, not Eric, is first into the library, saying he always wanted to do this, and probably asking "are you still with me" while Eric was busy with police.

Dylan did not fire the TEC-9 more than three times because he was saving his ammunition for those fleeing from the bombs. Eventually, people learn to flee that way is death, and flee the other way, up the cafeteria stairs.

At this point they "charge the school", through the west entrance.  Maybe here is where they use their knives. They would be a lot closer to people at this point, Dylan mentions the charging bit as particularly nerve-racking, and they would have used a bit of ammo on those fleeing into the parking lot.

All evidence points to the second cafeteria bomb being set for 11:35. "the most nerve racking FIFTEEN MINUTES of my life" says Dylan. They leave the library at 11:36. The pictures have it set for 9:35, presumably 2 hours late. They seemed to expect themselves to die in the library explosion, and many have noted that Eric shooting at the cafeteria bombs is a suicide attempt. They probably thought they'd be dead by 11:35.

Paramedics and media and all the rest would arrive, and students would feel safe to run out into the parking lot again. Maybe the whole school would be evacuated that way. Then the car bombs go off at around noon.

You put way more tactical thought into these plans than E or D probably did. It's obvious they had no real tactical mindset. The two idiots barely knew how to use the guns they were killing people with.

That's just so obviously an excuse to be lazy and not close to the truth. The truth is people who subscribe to the orthodox story are putting less logical thought into their plans than two teenagers did. You haven't responded to a single point. Also, the orthodox story says they had a more "tactical mindest" than I give them, copying military tactics of "cross fire". So, honesty would require you giving a third version accounting for all these same facts, not hand wave away the use of inference based on the facts like in every other crime ever.

Propane bombs or not, if they were as tactfully inclined as you believe they were, than the kill count would have been much higher even before they got to the library. These were just stupid teens who shot at people when they saw them. That's why the kids at the nearby ball fields were also shot at. The two kills they got outside were luck, the rest of the students were injured. And in terms of injured there were not as many as the opportunity afforded. I may come off as callous by talking about human beings like they are tallies on a score card, but those are truly pathetic numbers given how much a "tactical" team of two should have been capable of pulling off. Their guns were garbage, their aim was shit. The rest of their kills were at close range in the library, their targets were sitting ducks, and even then Eric injures himself because he can't even properly wield a shotgun. Even borrowing pre-designed bomb schematics they fail completely at assembling them. Nothing about what happened suggested they had an inkling of an idea about what to do if the bombs were delayed or failed. It may have been the deadliest school shooting up to that point but had those kids escaped the library or the door locked, then it would have been a different story. I doubt their pipe bombs would have gotten them into the locked classrooms. Before they knew it the school was locked down, and anyone not locked in a room had already evacuated while those two walked around the halls with their thumbs up their asses waiting for a bomb to go off in a nearly empty cafeteria. Yes, so tactful.

And if they were so sure the bombs were still going to go off like you say, then they truly were touched in the head, because why in the absolute f*** would you start firing your weapons outside before the explosion, and alerting people. That cafeteria was empty in seconds. Kinda goes against their plan to kill as many people as possible.

"the kill count would have been much higher even before they got to the library." Makes literally no sense. You're not arguing points, you're just dogmatically offering them.   You don't even offer a reason for why they shot who they shot, which is the strongest of signs that your theory (if you were honest enough to offer one) is bunk, when major facts are explained with "just because". Also shooting whoever else they could by the sports fields doesn't harm my theory in the slightest. Harms yours (again, if you had one) that they would shoot a single soul outside, even worse for no reason. Why are they still shooting outside if the bombs failed? Why did they shoot those by the west entrance and those on the stairs? Why were they even on the stairs? Crickets.

"Their guns were garbage, their aim was shit. The rest of their kills were at close range in the library, their targets were sitting ducks, and even then Eric injures himself because he can't even properly wield a shotgun. " Not one of these did I call into question. Refutes nothing I said, arguing with yourself.

"Nothing about what happened suggested they had an inkling of an idea about what to do if the bombs were delayed or failed." That helps my case. They never planned for the bombs failing. Yep. They thought they worked. No plan B. Glad you agree. No clue what your theory could be if you don't buy the usual story or mine.

"It may have been the deadliest school shooting up to that point but had those kids escaped the library or the door locked, then it would have been a different story. I doubt their pipe bombs would have gotten them into the locked classrooms. Before they knew it the school was locked down, and anyone not locked in a room had already evacuated while those two walked around the halls with their thumbs up their asses waiting for a bomb to go off in a nearly empty cafeteria. " Not disputing a word I said again; arguing with yourself.

"And if they were so sure the bombs were still going to go off like you say, then they truly were touched in the head, because why in the absolute f*** would you start firing your weapons outside before the explosion, and alerting people." You answered your own question above. They were confident the bombs were exploding the next minute.  They never thought they'd fail; "Nothing about what happened suggested they had an inkling of an idea about what to do if the bombs were delayed or failed".  You haven't answered my question which is far worse for your case, why in the fuck start shooting outside in the first place if you knew the bombs failed?  Yes, the cafeteria was empty in seconds. Why not start shooting in the cafeteria after planning for the cafeteria to be full, unless you thought the bombs were going to drag them outside? Worse, why say in the library that the library is going to explode? So they didn't think "the bombs" failed. That's the death of plan B. Over. done.

Baffled that anybody can vote up your post. This is pathetic. If they were tactful enough to know people could turn around in the library and use two bombs, then uh, their guns would've worked better and they would have already poisoned everybody around or something, because reasons.

You seem to have your own idea of what the plan was and what plan B was if they had one.  Fine we get it.  You post it on every single thread you can in large paragraphs.  Others have their own ideas.  We cannot have any idea what their real plan was.  It could have changed that morning.   They could have very well have a plan B that was not written down.  Perhaps they used improv.  There is no way to know bc the only two that knew what was going on in their head that day are gone.  Let others give their ideas without immediately shooting them down and telling them they are wrong.  You don't know anymore than they do

Seconded Lizpuff!

Third.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - You're being way too aggressive and rude towards people who don't agree with you. And it makes me uncomfortable how you're always throwing around the words "facts" and "truth". No one knows the 100% truth because the only 2 people who do know are dead. You have your opinions and that's fine but you need to calm down with jumping all over everybody in every thread when they don't agree with you.

Of course people aren't going to want to "answer your questions" or debate with you. It's because of how you're acting.

Just going to 4th this out of boredom. I remember arguing with the troll because he was trying to tell me what Eric and Dylan were thinking in their heads during the shooting

slippy123 wrote:

Jenn wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

cakeman wrote:

HanShotFirst wrote:

cakeman wrote:

HanShotFirst wrote:

cakeman wrote:

They were never going to shoot from the parking lot. What, pray tell, about bombs failing makes you head to the stairs? What witnesses say they waited by their cars? Nothing and none is the answer. They never started shooting "because the bombs failed." The stairs were ideal for elevation and to be blocked from the bombs and to go either direction students ran - unlike the parking lot.  There were only like five cafeteria tables near the south entrance and Eric's car.  They would never have began shooting there if they knew the bombs failed. They had a cafeteria full of victims if "plan b, shoot everyone" was engaged.

Rachel and Richard are shot because they need the west entrance clear to enter when students turn around. Daniel and Lance and Sean are shot because Dylan needs the stairs clear to descend them and fire at those fleeing. None of these are "plan B", "lets just shoot everyone now that the bombs failed". They bloody said repeatedly the bomb is about to work while in the library! Dylan bloody checked to see what was up with the bombs, he didn't walk past knowing they had already failed!   These are simply facts as far as I'm concerned. Dylan also very clearly stated they were always going to "charge through the school."

They also could've done a lot more damage if damaging the school was the reason for wandering around. Simply put, they could've damaged, instead of wandered. They surely expected cops to be in the building. Eric waves, meaning "Cops sighted" almost as soon as they come back to the cafeteria.

My best guess for the original plan. At 11:14, the diversion goes off, causing a fire. People respond, and the second diversion is triggered by their motion to go off, injuring them and diverting the response to the bigger scene at the school.

At 11:15 to 11:20, the first cafeteria bomb explodes. Dylan descends the stairs, and fires with the TEC-9 at those fleeing the exits, while Eric shoots with the carbine from his higher vantage point at police and any others who make it past Dylan.  Probably both tossing pipe bombs and crickets all the while.

Eric seemed to be concerned with killing cops, and Dylan with the murder spree. Eric, not Dylan, exchanges gunfire with police outside. Nearly all if not all the bullet casings fired at cops in the library are from Eric's shotgun. Dylan, not Eric, is first into the library, saying he always wanted to do this, and probably asking "are you still with me" while Eric was busy with police.

Dylan did not fire the TEC-9 more than three times because he was saving his ammunition for those fleeing from the bombs. Eventually, people learn to flee that way is death, and flee the other way, up the cafeteria stairs.

At this point they "charge the school", through the west entrance.  Maybe here is where they use their knives. They would be a lot closer to people at this point, Dylan mentions the charging bit as particularly nerve-racking, and they would have used a bit of ammo on those fleeing into the parking lot.

All evidence points to the second cafeteria bomb being set for 11:35. "the most nerve racking FIFTEEN MINUTES of my life" says Dylan. They leave the library at 11:36. The pictures have it set for 9:35, presumably 2 hours late. They seemed to expect themselves to die in the library explosion, and many have noted that Eric shooting at the cafeteria bombs is a suicide attempt. They probably thought they'd be dead by 11:35.

Paramedics and media and all the rest would arrive, and students would feel safe to run out into the parking lot again. Maybe the whole school would be evacuated that way. Then the car bombs go off at around noon.

You put way more tactical thought into these plans than E or D probably did. It's obvious they had no real tactical mindset. The two idiots barely knew how to use the guns they were killing people with.

That's just so obviously an excuse to be lazy and not close to the truth. The truth is people who subscribe to the orthodox story are putting less logical thought into their plans than two teenagers did. You haven't responded to a single point. Also, the orthodox story says they had a more "tactical mindest" than I give them, copying military tactics of "cross fire". So, honesty would require you giving a third version accounting for all these same facts, not hand wave away the use of inference based on the facts like in every other crime ever.

Propane bombs or not, if they were as tactfully inclined as you believe they were, than the kill count would have been much higher even before they got to the library. These were just stupid teens who shot at people when they saw them. That's why the kids at the nearby ball fields were also shot at. The two kills they got outside were luck, the rest of the students were injured. And in terms of injured there were not as many as the opportunity afforded. I may come off as callous by talking about human beings like they are tallies on a score card, but those are truly pathetic numbers given how much a "tactical" team of two should have been capable of pulling off. Their guns were garbage, their aim was shit. The rest of their kills were at close range in the library, their targets were sitting ducks, and even then Eric injures himself because he can't even properly wield a shotgun. Even borrowing pre-designed bomb schematics they fail completely at assembling them. Nothing about what happened suggested they had an inkling of an idea about what to do if the bombs were delayed or failed. It may have been the deadliest school shooting up to that point but had those kids escaped the library or the door locked, then it would have been a different story. I doubt their pipe bombs would have gotten them into the locked classrooms. Before they knew it the school was locked down, and anyone not locked in a room had already evacuated while those two walked around the halls with their thumbs up their asses waiting for a bomb to go off in a nearly empty cafeteria. Yes, so tactful.

And if they were so sure the bombs were still going to go off like you say, then they truly were touched in the head, because why in the absolute f*** would you start firing your weapons outside before the explosion, and alerting people. That cafeteria was empty in seconds. Kinda goes against their plan to kill as many people as possible.

"the kill count would have been much higher even before they got to the library." Makes literally no sense. You're not arguing points, you're just dogmatically offering them.   You don't even offer a reason for why they shot who they shot, which is the strongest of signs that your theory (if you were honest enough to offer one) is bunk, when major facts are explained with "just because". Also shooting whoever else they could by the sports fields doesn't harm my theory in the slightest. Harms yours (again, if you had one) that they would shoot a single soul outside, even worse for no reason. Why are they still shooting outside if the bombs failed? Why did they shoot those by the west entrance and those on the stairs? Why were they even on the stairs? Crickets.

"Their guns were garbage, their aim was shit. The rest of their kills were at close range in the library, their targets were sitting ducks, and even then Eric injures himself because he can't even properly wield a shotgun. " Not one of these did I call into question. Refutes nothing I said, arguing with yourself.

"Nothing about what happened suggested they had an inkling of an idea about what to do if the bombs were delayed or failed." That helps my case. They never planned for the bombs failing. Yep. They thought they worked. No plan B. Glad you agree. No clue what your theory could be if you don't buy the usual story or mine.

"It may have been the deadliest school shooting up to that point but had those kids escaped the library or the door locked, then it would have been a different story. I doubt their pipe bombs would have gotten them into the locked classrooms. Before they knew it the school was locked down, and anyone not locked in a room had already evacuated while those two walked around the halls with their thumbs up their asses waiting for a bomb to go off in a nearly empty cafeteria. " Not disputing a word I said again; arguing with yourself.

"And if they were so sure the bombs were still going to go off like you say, then they truly were touched in the head, because why in the absolute f*** would you start firing your weapons outside before the explosion, and alerting people." You answered your own question above. They were confident the bombs were exploding the next minute.  They never thought they'd fail; "Nothing about what happened suggested they had an inkling of an idea about what to do if the bombs were delayed or failed".  You haven't answered my question which is far worse for your case, why in the fuck start shooting outside in the first place if you knew the bombs failed?  Yes, the cafeteria was empty in seconds. Why not start shooting in the cafeteria after planning for the cafeteria to be full, unless you thought the bombs were going to drag them outside? Worse, why say in the library that the library is going to explode? So they didn't think "the bombs" failed. That's the death of plan B. Over. done.

Baffled that anybody can vote up your post. This is pathetic. If they were tactful enough to know people could turn around in the library and use two bombs, then uh, their guns would've worked better and they would have already poisoned everybody around or something, because reasons.

You seem to have your own idea of what the plan was and what plan B was if they had one.  Fine we get it.  You post it on every single thread you can in large paragraphs.  Others have their own ideas.  We cannot have any idea what their real plan was.  It could have changed that morning.   They could have very well have a plan B that was not written down.  Perhaps they used improv.  There is no way to know bc the only two that knew what was going on in their head that day are gone.  Let others give their ideas without immediately shooting them down and telling them they are wrong.  You don't know anymore than they do

Seconded Lizpuff!

Third.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - You're being way too aggressive and rude towards people who don't agree with you. And it makes me uncomfortable how you're always throwing around the words "facts" and "truth". No one knows the 100% truth because the only 2 people who do know are dead. You have your opinions and that's fine but you need to calm down with jumping all over everybody in every thread when they don't agree with you.

Of course people aren't going to want to "answer your questions" or debate with you. It's because of how you're acting.

Just going to 4th this out of boredom. I remember arguing with the troll because he was trying to tell me what Eric and Dylan were thinking in their heads during the shooting

I recall that. I noped out bc it wasn't something I was wanting to argue. The thing that gets me here is they are asking for a reason why certain people were shot. 1 million internet dollars to the person who can give me a factual reason why they shot some and left others alive. no opinions allowed. fact only

Jenn wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

cakeman wrote:

HanShotFirst wrote:

cakeman wrote:

HanShotFirst wrote:

cakeman wrote:

They were never going to shoot from the parking lot. What, pray tell, about bombs failing makes you head to the stairs? What witnesses say they waited by their cars? Nothing and none is the answer. They never started shooting "because the bombs failed." The stairs were ideal for elevation and to be blocked from the bombs and to go either direction students ran - unlike the parking lot.  There were only like five cafeteria tables near the south entrance and Eric's car.  They would never have began shooting there if they knew the bombs failed. They had a cafeteria full of victims if "plan b, shoot everyone" was engaged.

Rachel and Richard are shot because they need the west entrance clear to enter when students turn around. Daniel and Lance and Sean are shot because Dylan needs the stairs clear to descend them and fire at those fleeing. None of these are "plan B", "lets just shoot everyone now that the bombs failed". They bloody said repeatedly the bomb is about to work while in the library! Dylan bloody checked to see what was up with the bombs, he didn't walk past knowing they had already failed!   These are simply facts as far as I'm concerned. Dylan also very clearly stated they were always going to "charge through the school."

They also could've done a lot more damage if damaging the school was the reason for wandering around. Simply put, they could've damaged, instead of wandered. They surely expected cops to be in the building. Eric waves, meaning "Cops sighted" almost as soon as they come back to the cafeteria.

My best guess for the original plan. At 11:14, the diversion goes off, causing a fire. People respond, and the second diversion is triggered by their motion to go off, injuring them and diverting the response to the bigger scene at the school.

At 11:15 to 11:20, the first cafeteria bomb explodes. Dylan descends the stairs, and fires with the TEC-9 at those fleeing the exits, while Eric shoots with the carbine from his higher vantage point at police and any others who make it past Dylan.  Probably both tossing pipe bombs and crickets all the while.

Eric seemed to be concerned with killing cops, and Dylan with the murder spree. Eric, not Dylan, exchanges gunfire with police outside. Nearly all if not all the bullet casings fired at cops in the library are from Eric's shotgun. Dylan, not Eric, is first into the library, saying he always wanted to do this, and probably asking "are you still with me" while Eric was busy with police.

Dylan did not fire the TEC-9 more than three times because he was saving his ammunition for those fleeing from the bombs. Eventually, people learn to flee that way is death, and flee the other way, up the cafeteria stairs.

At this point they "charge the school", through the west entrance.  Maybe here is where they use their knives. They would be a lot closer to people at this point, Dylan mentions the charging bit as particularly nerve-racking, and they would have used a bit of ammo on those fleeing into the parking lot.

All evidence points to the second cafeteria bomb being set for 11:35. "the most nerve racking FIFTEEN MINUTES of my life" says Dylan. They leave the library at 11:36. The pictures have it set for 9:35, presumably 2 hours late. They seemed to expect themselves to die in the library explosion, and many have noted that Eric shooting at the cafeteria bombs is a suicide attempt. They probably thought they'd be dead by 11:35.

Paramedics and media and all the rest would arrive, and students would feel safe to run out into the parking lot again. Maybe the whole school would be evacuated that way. Then the car bombs go off at around noon.

You put way more tactical thought into these plans than E or D probably did. It's obvious they had no real tactical mindset. The two idiots barely knew how to use the guns they were killing people with.

That's just so obviously an excuse to be lazy and not close to the truth. The truth is people who subscribe to the orthodox story are putting less logical thought into their plans than two teenagers did. You haven't responded to a single point. Also, the orthodox story says they had a more "tactical mindest" than I give them, copying military tactics of "cross fire". So, honesty would require you giving a third version accounting for all these same facts, not hand wave away the use of inference based on the facts like in every other crime ever.

Propane bombs or not, if they were as tactfully inclined as you believe they were, than the kill count would have been much higher even before they got to the library. These were just stupid teens who shot at people when they saw them. That's why the kids at the nearby ball fields were also shot at. The two kills they got outside were luck, the rest of the students were injured. And in terms of injured there were not as many as the opportunity afforded. I may come off as callous by talking about human beings like they are tallies on a score card, but those are truly pathetic numbers given how much a "tactical" team of two should have been capable of pulling off. Their guns were garbage, their aim was shit. The rest of their kills were at close range in the library, their targets were sitting ducks, and even then Eric injures himself because he can't even properly wield a shotgun. Even borrowing pre-designed bomb schematics they fail completely at assembling them. Nothing about what happened suggested they had an inkling of an idea about what to do if the bombs were delayed or failed. It may have been the deadliest school shooting up to that point but had those kids escaped the library or the door locked, then it would have been a different story. I doubt their pipe bombs would have gotten them into the locked classrooms. Before they knew it the school was locked down, and anyone not locked in a room had already evacuated while those two walked around the halls with their thumbs up their asses waiting for a bomb to go off in a nearly empty cafeteria. Yes, so tactful.

And if they were so sure the bombs were still going to go off like you say, then they truly were touched in the head, because why in the absolute f*** would you start firing your weapons outside before the explosion, and alerting people. That cafeteria was empty in seconds. Kinda goes against their plan to kill as many people as possible.

"the kill count would have been much higher even before they got to the library." Makes literally no sense. You're not arguing points, you're just dogmatically offering them.   You don't even offer a reason for why they shot who they shot, which is the strongest of signs that your theory (if you were honest enough to offer one) is bunk, when major facts are explained with "just because". Also shooting whoever else they could by the sports fields doesn't harm my theory in the slightest. Harms yours (again, if you had one) that they would shoot a single soul outside, even worse for no reason. Why are they still shooting outside if the bombs failed? Why did they shoot those by the west entrance and those on the stairs? Why were they even on the stairs? Crickets.

"Their guns were garbage, their aim was shit. The rest of their kills were at close range in the library, their targets were sitting ducks, and even then Eric injures himself because he can't even properly wield a shotgun. " Not one of these did I call into question. Refutes nothing I said, arguing with yourself.

"Nothing about what happened suggested they had an inkling of an idea about what to do if the bombs were delayed or failed." That helps my case. They never planned for the bombs failing. Yep. They thought they worked. No plan B. Glad you agree. No clue what your theory could be if you don't buy the usual story or mine.

"It may have been the deadliest school shooting up to that point but had those kids escaped the library or the door locked, then it would have been a different story. I doubt their pipe bombs would have gotten them into the locked classrooms. Before they knew it the school was locked down, and anyone not locked in a room had already evacuated while those two walked around the halls with their thumbs up their asses waiting for a bomb to go off in a nearly empty cafeteria. " Not disputing a word I said again; arguing with yourself.

"And if they were so sure the bombs were still going to go off like you say, then they truly were touched in the head, because why in the absolute f*** would you start firing your weapons outside before the explosion, and alerting people." You answered your own question above. They were confident the bombs were exploding the next minute.  They never thought they'd fail; "Nothing about what happened suggested they had an inkling of an idea about what to do if the bombs were delayed or failed".  You haven't answered my question which is far worse for your case, why in the fuck start shooting outside in the first place if you knew the bombs failed?  Yes, the cafeteria was empty in seconds. Why not start shooting in the cafeteria after planning for the cafeteria to be full, unless you thought the bombs were going to drag them outside? Worse, why say in the library that the library is going to explode? So they didn't think "the bombs" failed. That's the death of plan B. Over. done.

Baffled that anybody can vote up your post. This is pathetic. If they were tactful enough to know people could turn around in the library and use two bombs, then uh, their guns would've worked better and they would have already poisoned everybody around or something, because reasons.

You seem to have your own idea of what the plan was and what plan B was if they had one.  Fine we get it.  You post it on every single thread you can in large paragraphs.  Others have their own ideas.  We cannot have any idea what their real plan was.  It could have changed that morning.   They could have very well have a plan B that was not written down.  Perhaps they used improv.  There is no way to know bc the only two that knew what was going on in their head that day are gone.  Let others give their ideas without immediately shooting them down and telling them they are wrong.  You don't know anymore than they do

Seconded Lizpuff!

Third.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - You're being way too aggressive and rude towards people who don't agree with you. And it makes me uncomfortable how you're always throwing around the words "facts" and "truth". No one knows the 100% truth because the only 2 people who do know are dead. You have your opinions and that's fine but you need to calm down with jumping all over everybody in every thread when they don't agree with you.

Of course people aren't going to want to "answer your questions" or debate with you. It's because of how you're acting.

It's not about not agreeing with me. Literally here for people not to agree with me. It's that people who preach to me the false "plan B" narrative do it in the exact same way people preach the "psychopath/depressive" narrative, "do you even babby's first columbine narrative"; yes, I'm aware of it.

"There is no way to know" is a cop out. That's not how investigation and inference works. They thought the library was going to explode, so that means they did not start shooting "because the bombs failed".  That's not my opinion, that's entailment.  People who do this are simply stating they know and when somebody shows how what they claim to know is impossible, falling back on "nobody knows", and they know as well as I do it's what they are doing.  I'm not the dogmatic one here. "It could have changed that morning" Yeah it could have, and nothing I said has anything to do with that. This is a defense mechanism like all the others incapable of addressing what I say.  Months before they acted the plan could have changed from, say, shooting from the parking lot, to shooting from the stairs. Maybe they said they were going to shoot from the parking lot in the basement tapes and that's why cops think it. I've said as much. But they never waited for the bombs by their cars after planting them.

Queer how nobody will debate with me when that is exactly what he tried to do, just while being incapable of responding to anything I said. His point was literally that they couldn't have known people would turn around or used two bombs to their advantage by having them go off at different times (the only way to reconcile the above entailment) because their guns weren't AK-47s and because they started shooting outside, when I submit the shooting outside is yet another disproof of "they started shooting when the bombs failed." Also literally the orthodox plan B narrative found in Cullen and Jeffco is dependent on them using military-style tactics, so it's buffoonery to claim I'm the one saying they were too tactical

And slippy contributing is a riot. For just one example, he chastised me for mentioning gas cans attached to the propane bombs, saying I'm an idiot for confusing propane bombs with gas cans, as if gas cans weren't attached to the propane bombs, and states as fact that the fire in the cafeteria was caused by the molotov cocktail alone, not the gas can (which doesn't exist in his mind) or the propane bomb.  

I'm not "throwing around the word facts". I'm very aware of the difference between a fact and an inference and theorizing. That they said the library would explode is a fact, for instance. That they started shooting from the stairs is a fact. That they shot Rachel and Richard and Lance and Dan and Sean are facts. You have to draw inferences from these  facts, and account for them with your theory. That's the point of the facts. And the critics here aren't even trying.

Really, if you call people a troll for being annoyed when people are literally incapable of addressing a point or the facts, expect to just have the same conversation lifted from Cullen's book again and again.

No you are being called a troll because of the name calling for one.

Most people here who try to question what others say can have a spirited debate.

You are the one speaking as though you were in Eric and Dylan’s minds , much like Cullen

I for one don’t buy into Cullen at all, but when I try to bring up an alternative theory and there’s rudeness I don’t argue or debate anymore.

"You're a doofus for these reasons" is not "trolling", and I've got just as much "name calling", but I don't resort to calling it "trolling" to pretend it isn't sincere.

I have a good spirited debate with plenty, just not those who are incapable of addressing a point and just have rote retelling of the first narrative they heard along with insufferable smugness.  Questionmark and Lporter and Sabratha, for example, will disagree with me and address what I said instead of just begging the question and repeating what everybody has heard already and what is trying to be addressed in the first place. Again, literally here so I can have my theories checked by the most knowledgeable, but mostly get insulted by those far less.

No, i'm the one speaking from drawing inferences from the facts, you guys are literally the ones telling me I'm wrong because just obviously e. g. they thought the bombs failed with no reasoning aside from mind reading and it being the first story you heard, just like noobs do with psychopath/depressive.

If you buy into "plan B"; they began shooting and went to the stairs because the bombs failed", you're buying into the most Cullen, orthodox, day 1 narrative about the actual massacre itself contradicted by every fact and inference I can martial. Much worse than psychopath/depressive, which relies on being inside their heads.

Lizpuff wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

Jenn wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

cakeman wrote:

HanShotFirst wrote:

cakeman wrote:

HanShotFirst wrote:

cakeman wrote:

They were never going to shoot from the parking lot. What, pray tell, about bombs failing makes you head to the stairs? What witnesses say they waited by their cars? Nothing and none is the answer. They never started shooting "because the bombs failed." The stairs were ideal for elevation and to be blocked from the bombs and to go either direction students ran - unlike the parking lot.  There were only like five cafeteria tables near the south entrance and Eric's car.  They would never have began shooting there if they knew the bombs failed. They had a cafeteria full of victims if "plan b, shoot everyone" was engaged.

Rachel and Richard are shot because they need the west entrance clear to enter when students turn around. Daniel and Lance and Sean are shot because Dylan needs the stairs clear to descend them and fire at those fleeing. None of these are "plan B", "lets just shoot everyone now that the bombs failed". They bloody said repeatedly the bomb is about to work while in the library! Dylan bloody checked to see what was up with the bombs, he didn't walk past knowing they had already failed!   These are simply facts as far as I'm concerned. Dylan also very clearly stated they were always going to "charge through the school."

They also could've done a lot more damage if damaging the school was the reason for wandering around. Simply put, they could've damaged, instead of wandered. They surely expected cops to be in the building. Eric waves, meaning "Cops sighted" almost as soon as they come back to the cafeteria.

My best guess for the original plan. At 11:14, the diversion goes off, causing a fire. People respond, and the second diversion is triggered by their motion to go off, injuring them and diverting the response to the bigger scene at the school.

At 11:15 to 11:20, the first cafeteria bomb explodes. Dylan descends the stairs, and fires with the TEC-9 at those fleeing the exits, while Eric shoots with the carbine from his higher vantage point at police and any others who make it past Dylan.  Probably both tossing pipe bombs and crickets all the while.

Eric seemed to be concerned with killing cops, and Dylan with the murder spree. Eric, not Dylan, exchanges gunfire with police outside. Nearly all if not all the bullet casings fired at cops in the library are from Eric's shotgun. Dylan, not Eric, is first into the library, saying he always wanted to do this, and probably asking "are you still with me" while Eric was busy with police.

Dylan did not fire the TEC-9 more than three times because he was saving his ammunition for those fleeing from the bombs. Eventually, people learn to flee that way is death, and flee the other way, up the cafeteria stairs.

At this point they "charge the school", through the west entrance.  Maybe here is where they use their knives. They would be a lot closer to people at this point, Dylan mentions the charging bit as particularly nerve-racking, and they would have used a bit of ammo on those fleeing into the parking lot.

All evidence points to the second cafeteria bomb being set for 11:35. "the most nerve racking FIFTEEN MINUTES of my life" says Dylan. They leave the library at 11:36. The pictures have it set for 9:35, presumably 2 hours late. They seemed to expect themselves to die in the library explosion, and many have noted that Eric shooting at the cafeteria bombs is a suicide attempt. They probably thought they'd be dead by 11:35.

Paramedics and media and all the rest would arrive, and students would feel safe to run out into the parking lot again. Maybe the whole school would be evacuated that way. Then the car bombs go off at around noon.

You put way more tactical thought into these plans than E or D probably did. It's obvious they had no real tactical mindset. The two idiots barely knew how to use the guns they were killing people with.

That's just so obviously an excuse to be lazy and not close to the truth. The truth is people who subscribe to the orthodox story are putting less logical thought into their plans than two teenagers did. You haven't responded to a single point. Also, the orthodox story says they had a more "tactical mindest" than I give them, copying military tactics of "cross fire". So, honesty would require you giving a third version accounting for all these same facts, not hand wave away the use of inference based on the facts like in every other crime ever.

Propane bombs or not, if they were as tactfully inclined as you believe they were, than the kill count would have been much higher even before they got to the library. These were just stupid teens who shot at people when they saw them. That's why the kids at the nearby ball fields were also shot at. The two kills they got outside were luck, the rest of the students were injured. And in terms of injured there were not as many as the opportunity afforded. I may come off as callous by talking about human beings like they are tallies on a score card, but those are truly pathetic numbers given how much a "tactical" team of two should have been capable of pulling off. Their guns were garbage, their aim was shit. The rest of their kills were at close range in the library, their targets were sitting ducks, and even then Eric injures himself because he can't even properly wield a shotgun. Even borrowing pre-designed bomb schematics they fail completely at assembling them. Nothing about what happened suggested they had an inkling of an idea about what to do if the bombs were delayed or failed. It may have been the deadliest school shooting up to that point but had those kids escaped the library or the door locked, then it would have been a different story. I doubt their pipe bombs would have gotten them into the locked classrooms. Before they knew it the school was locked down, and anyone not locked in a room had already evacuated while those two walked around the halls with their thumbs up their asses waiting for a bomb to go off in a nearly empty cafeteria. Yes, so tactful.

And if they were so sure the bombs were still going to go off like you say, then they truly were touched in the head, because why in the absolute f*** would you start firing your weapons outside before the explosion, and alerting people. That cafeteria was empty in seconds. Kinda goes against their plan to kill as many people as possible.

"the kill count would have been much higher even before they got to the library." Makes literally no sense. You're not arguing points, you're just dogmatically offering them.   You don't even offer a reason for why they shot who they shot, which is the strongest of signs that your theory (if you were honest enough to offer one) is bunk, when major facts are explained with "just because". Also shooting whoever else they could by the sports fields doesn't harm my theory in the slightest. Harms yours (again, if you had one) that they would shoot a single soul outside, even worse for no reason. Why are they still shooting outside if the bombs failed? Why did they shoot those by the west entrance and those on the stairs? Why were they even on the stairs? Crickets.

"Their guns were garbage, their aim was shit. The rest of their kills were at close range in the library, their targets were sitting ducks, and even then Eric injures himself because he can't even properly wield a shotgun. " Not one of these did I call into question. Refutes nothing I said, arguing with yourself.

"Nothing about what happened suggested they had an inkling of an idea about what to do if the bombs were delayed or failed." That helps my case. They never planned for the bombs failing. Yep. They thought they worked. No plan B. Glad you agree. No clue what your theory could be if you don't buy the usual story or mine.

"It may have been the deadliest school shooting up to that point but had those kids escaped the library or the door locked, then it would have been a different story. I doubt their pipe bombs would have gotten them into the locked classrooms. Before they knew it the school was locked down, and anyone not locked in a room had already evacuated while those two walked around the halls with their thumbs up their asses waiting for a bomb to go off in a nearly empty cafeteria. " Not disputing a word I said again; arguing with yourself.

"And if they were so sure the bombs were still going to go off like you say, then they truly were touched in the head, because why in the absolute f*** would you start firing your weapons outside before the explosion, and alerting people." You answered your own question above. They were confident the bombs were exploding the next minute.  They never thought they'd fail; "Nothing about what happened suggested they had an inkling of an idea about what to do if the bombs were delayed or failed".  You haven't answered my question which is far worse for your case, why in the fuck start shooting outside in the first place if you knew the bombs failed?  Yes, the cafeteria was empty in seconds. Why not start shooting in the cafeteria after planning for the cafeteria to be full, unless you thought the bombs were going to drag them outside? Worse, why say in the library that the library is going to explode? So they didn't think "the bombs" failed. That's the death of plan B. Over. done.

Baffled that anybody can vote up your post. This is pathetic. If they were tactful enough to know people could turn around in the library and use two bombs, then uh, their guns would've worked better and they would have already poisoned everybody around or something, because reasons.

You seem to have your own idea of what the plan was and what plan B was if they had one.  Fine we get it.  You post it on every single thread you can in large paragraphs.  Others have their own ideas.  We cannot have any idea what their real plan was.  It could have changed that morning.   They could have very well have a plan B that was not written down.  Perhaps they used improv.  There is no way to know bc the only two that knew what was going on in their head that day are gone.  Let others give their ideas without immediately shooting them down and telling them they are wrong.  You don't know anymore than they do

Seconded Lizpuff!

Third.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - You're being way too aggressive and rude towards people who don't agree with you. And it makes me uncomfortable how you're always throwing around the words "facts" and "truth". No one knows the 100% truth because the only 2 people who do know are dead. You have your opinions and that's fine but you need to calm down with jumping all over everybody in every thread when they don't agree with you.

Of course people aren't going to want to "answer your questions" or debate with you. It's because of how you're acting.

Just going to 4th this out of boredom. I remember arguing with the troll because he was trying to tell me what Eric and Dylan were thinking in their heads during the shooting

I recall that.  I noped out bc it wasn't something I was wanting to argue.  The thing that gets me here is they are asking for a reason why certain people were shot.  1 million internet dollars to the person who can give me a factual reason why they shot some and left others alive.  no opinions allowed.  fact only

Who did they "let live" outside once they started shooting? The insufferable smugness again. Yes, if you have a theory of the original plan, it should account for why they took the actions they did- like shooting Rachel and Richard first, and Daniel and Lance and Sean next, instead of other ones. Otherwise what's the theory supposed to explain?

Screamingophelia wrote:

No you are being called a troll because of the name calling for one.

Most people here who try to question what others say can have a spirited debate.

You are the one speaking as though you were in Eric and Dylan’s minds , much like Cullen

I for one don’t buy into Cullen at all, but when I try to bring up an alternative theory and there’s rudeness I don’t argue or debate anymore.

I'd just save your breath, lol.
Don't fall for the attention seeking trap like some do.
When the owner of the forum has to put you in your place, that's good enough evidence for me.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Does adding someone to your "foes" list block you from seeing their posts?

slippy123 wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

No you are being called a troll because of the name calling for one.

Most people here who try to question what others say can have a spirited debate.

You are the one speaking as though you were in Eric and Dylan’s minds , much like Cullen

I for one don’t buy into Cullen at all, but when I try to bring up an alternative theory and there’s rudeness I don’t argue or debate anymore.

I'd just save your breath, lol.
Don't fall for the attention seeking trap like some do.
When the owner of the forum has to put you in your place, that's good enough evidence for me.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Does adding someone to your "foes" list block you from seeing their posts?

Noted and yes slippy, it does.

slippy123 wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

No you are being called a troll because of the name calling for one.

Most people here who try to question what others say can have a spirited debate.

You are the one speaking as though you were in Eric and Dylan’s minds , much like Cullen

I for one don’t buy into Cullen at all, but when I try to bring up an alternative theory and there’s rudeness I don’t argue or debate anymore.

I'd just save your breath, lol.
Don't fall for the attention seeking trap like some do.
When the owner of the forum has to put you in your place, that's good enough evidence for me.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Does adding someone to your "foes" list block you from seeing their posts?

I'm assuming they can't see your posts either right?

When instead of actually reading a theory of the original plan in a thread asking for it, you'd rather just repeat dogma and have somebody - who pretends to study the massacre for years and thinks e. g. people who mention gas cans attached to the propane tanks are idiots, blindly appeal to authority and side with you to make himself feel better, that's good enough evidence for me.

Yes "attention seeking trap", that's not a coping defense mechanism to account for your just being unable to stand the heat of the kitchen. This guy doesn't just go "They did a bunch of contradictory stuff for no reason" and call it a theory of their original plan, it's an attention seeking trap! /twirls evil mustache

hvernon wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

No you are being called a troll because of the name calling for one.

Most people here who try to question what others say can have a spirited debate.

You are the one speaking as though you were in Eric and Dylan’s minds , much like Cullen

I for one don’t buy into Cullen at all, but when I try to bring up an alternative theory and there’s rudeness I don’t argue or debate anymore.

I'd just save your breath, lol.
Don't fall for the attention seeking trap like some do.
When the owner of the forum has to put you in your place, that's good enough evidence for me.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Does adding someone to your "foes" list block you from seeing their posts?

I'm assuming they can't see your posts either right?

I believe they can still see your posts which is unfortunate. I wish we could just straight up block people on here.

Here's as disinterested a retelling as possible, which I'm sure will get blindly downvoted by those who read only the first word and are silly enough to use the list of facts as a point against me with some 'tl;dr'

1)
Facts which one attempts to account for by my theory:

On the second diversion:
*JeffCo/CNN CD says the diversion had motion detection
*That there were two diversions in the first place

On the stairs being plan A, Eric taking cops and Dylan taking fleeing students, entering when people turn around:
*They began shooting from the stairs
*No witnesses say they waited by their cars
*Their clocks supposedly not precise enough to be set for "11:17"
*Their beginning shooting at 11:19
*Rachel and Richard shot first
*Daniel R. and Lance and Sean shot next
*Dylan descends the stairs
*Dylan only shoots 3 times outside with the TEC-9
*Dylan entering the cafeteria ostensibly to check on the bombs
*Eric and not Dylan shot at cops outside and likely in the library too
*Dylan said beforehand they planned to charge through the school
*They do so after Dylan sees people running up the cafeteria stairs, reports to Eric
*They carried knives, mentioned using them
*Dylan and not Eric enters the library first
*Dylan and not Eric seemed to relish the library massacre more

On the second cafeteria bomb set for 11:35:
*That there were two cafeteria bombs in the first place
*They say the library is going to explode several times
*Dylan said beforehand something would take 15 minutes
*They tell e. g. Bree she will not live but die in the explosion, tell John to leave if he wants to live, but at the end tell Evan he is going to live
*They leave the library at 11:36
*The picture of the bomb shows it set to the 35th minute
*They shoot at the bombs in an apparent suicide attempt

2)
Facts accounted for by the "They were going to shoot from the cars and then went to the stairs as plan B when the bombs failed, I've read Jeffco's day 1 Columbine research theory and you're an attention seeking idiot troll" theory:

*They like shot people and stuff
*Their cars were in separate parking lots
*Their bombs didn't work

By all means offer others if you can. I don't see any. I respond to those with e. g. the cars being further away, and people turning around leaving them helpless, and being pelted by glass if the bombs blow big enough, while they are shielded and can go either way their victims go on the stairs, which is all the witnesses can account for anyway. Pointing out that the cars weren't their guns is enough, really.

And that they obviously didn't think both bombs had failed already once in the library, saying it would explode, and that they had a cafeteria full of victims, rather than to begin shooting outside, if they thought the bombs failed, and changing plans in 2 minutes is unlikely. But the library is enough.

The only attempt at a response to mine was to say "Why the fuck would they alert people in the cafeteria by shooting outside if they thought the bombs were about to work", which is absolutely bizarre; why in the fuck would you alert people in the cafeteria by shooting outside unless you thought the bombs were about to drag them outside? Literally the only attempt at a point contradicts their idea.  

Then they just say I'm a mind reader because they can't actually account for any of the facts and need to project some problem onto me. This is just standard inference from the facts, not telepathy, which more closely resembles e. g. saying you know they went to the stairs because they knew the bombs failed and never saying what about the bombs failing drew them to the stairs.

I suppose there was also the  point to say my theory is "too tactical", which again is more mind reading than anything I've offered, and doubly bizarre when how Cullen supports Jeffco's theory about shooting from the parking lot is by saying they must have studied military tactics about crossfire.  Again the opposite is the case. Their guns are so shitty that it somehow proves they couldn't have conceived of shooting from the stairs instead of the parking lot...when the parking lot is even further away for their shitty guns.

Actually answering the OP is trolling somehow. Asking people how their theory accounts for the same facts is trolling somehow. Asking questions to them after the one question they ask me contradicts their own viewpoint is also trolling somehow. They can point out that one of Dylan's notes say 'wait by the cars", pointing out the other version says  "go to outside hill, wait; when first bombs go off, attack" is trolling somehow. Anybody without a dog in the fight would say you are begging the question.

My opinion was never that they were going to shoot from the cars. Others may have that and if I ever did read that I missed it. I don't think that was the plan at all. I don't like the term plan b. I don't really think they did have a plan b. I think the original bombing was THE plan and when it didn't work out they used improv.

Why did they continue to say that the library would explode or that the bombs were going to go off after they had not? I have two theories. The lesser likely in my mind is simple scare tactics. We know they said a ton of things that day to try to scare the kids. They taunted kids said mean things etc. So perhaps they could have continued with the bomb threat to scare the kids like "hey we are not going to shoot you but you are going to blow up anyway" type of thing. I think that is possible but not really probable. Mostly just bc everyone was already scared.

In my mind what is more likely to me is that when Eric realized the bombs did not explode, I think he thought he could get them to explode on his own. Thus why they continue to go to the commons, shoot at the bombs, throw things at them etc.
When he finally realized it was over, the bombs did not go off like he planned and the cops were coming they went to the library to try to shoot at the cops and eventually die.

I agree with Lizpuff

I think the theory of them using scare tactics makes sense.

It was sadly the first room they saw full of people. They saw Patti running towards the library... the bombs didn’t go off but after they killed Rachel and injured Richard they were past the point of no return.