Columbine cliques

This video prooves right here that were mistreated as outcasts and not accepted. Cullens book is a bunch of B.S.

Cullen's answer (lame as it may be) is that after the shooting untrue rumors started going around about how Eric, Dylan, and the TCM were outcasts and bullied and that all of these impressionable young kids just started regurgitating these rumors as fact even though they weren't true.

His theory is garbage, of course, because Tiffany Typher knew them and because this video aired on April 22, 1999. So, within 2 days the entire student body was all on the same page regarding bullying? I don't think so.

(Disclaimer- I don't believe that bullying was the sole or even main cause of the shooting. I do believe it was a factor).

I was definitely one of the people who thought bullying was the sole cause at the beginning. However I don’t believe that anymore but I do believe it was a mitigating factor. I think it was a triggering event at Sue would call it.

In that interview though I always thought that was Devon and not Tiffany. Now I want to find an interview with Devon from around that time...

Screamingophelia wrote:

I was definitely one of the people who thought bullying  was the sole cause at the beginning. However I don’t believe that anymore but I do believe it was a mitigating factor. I think it was a triggering event at Sue would call it.

In that interview though I always thought that was Devon and not Tiffany. Now I want to find an interview with Devon from around that time...

Really? because Stephen Green in this video said he was in fear of his sons life and I quote "going to that school" because a jock threatened him badly, because his son was jewish. So I gather that Frank DeAngelis is responsible for most of this, he was the principal, it was his job to provide a good environment.

I never said that I didn’t think there was a lot of bullying. I think it was a big factor but I just don’t think it’s the only one.

I think the majority of people (at least on this forum) are in agreement that Eric and Dylan were bullied and mistreated in school, but that wasn't the only factor that led up to the shooting.

Yes they were bullied but shit trickles down and Eric and Dylan were not at the bottom

If anyone sees milenialrebel around, please ask her to watch this video if I don't see her. I would like to know her opinion on this since she went to Columboine and how it progressed or didn't when she went.

bradt93 wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

I was definitely one of the people who thought bullying  was the sole cause at the beginning. However I don’t believe that anymore but I do believe it was a mitigating factor. I think it was a triggering event at Sue would call it.

In that interview though I always thought that was Devon and not Tiffany. Now I want to find an interview with Devon from around that time...

Really? because Stephen Green in this video said he was in fear of his sons life and I quote "going to that school" because a jock threatened him badly, because his son was jewish. So I gather that Frank DeAngelis is responsible for most of this, he was the principal, it was his job to provide a good environment.

There's an anecdote of Rocky Hoffschneider bullying a Jewish kid until his dad just pulled him out of school. Same kid?

And yeah, E&D had a hard time at school. Even outside of school jocks would drive past and throw bottles at them.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] hi! So the video is no longer available... is there another place to watch it??

thelmar wrote:

Cullen's answer (lame as it may be) is that after the shooting untrue rumors started going around about how Eric, Dylan, and the TCM were outcasts and bullied and that all of these impressionable young kids just started regurgitating these rumors as fact even though they weren't true.

His theory is garbage, of course, because Tiffany Typher knew them and because this video aired on April 22, 1999. So, within 2 days the entire student body was all on the same page regarding bullying? I don't think so.

(Disclaimer- I don't believe that bullying was the sole or even main cause of the shooting. I do believe it was a factor).

Honestly, they werent part of the TCM, but Id say the TCMs seems to have been picked on really badly, from what I know.  I believe Cullens answer is that they were said to have been part of the TCM, goths etc and bullied and outcasts, which was all rumours. The two first are definately not true. They werent goths or TCM- members. They didnt target specific groups. The whole thing about bullying and being an outsider, however, is something that I find a little bit more complicated. While they hardly mention bullying in their journals, there are certainly a lot of Second hand withness accounts that talks about having seen them getting bullied or picked on. And that they were outsiders.

The thing about bullying to me is a bit complex, as there are certain contradictions in those statements. If we basically study the withness accounts all in all we find that.

Argument 1: Both got picked on argument number 2: Eric got picked on more than Dylan.

Outcasts: Some argue that they were outcasts. Others have argued the opposite. And I think that this needs to be adressed in a larger context: They themselves, in fact, bullied and/ or got into fights with other students. Some of the dislike seems to have been brought about because of their own personal issues. But than again we also have accounts which suggests that they were well liked by many. My assumption is therefore: Some may have disliked them because they werent in their 'crowd'. Others probably had a good reason not to like them. A third party liked them.

Judging from all of the above, my perspective is that they may or may not have been bullied. Its possible that Eric was more of a target than Dylan. Is it possible that even their friends may have picked up on what they saw on television screen? I dont dispute that. There are many accounts in  the Columbine- documents, however, which adresses bullying. Im not really sure what to make out of it.


I dont think it's possible to argue that they were the lowest of the low, like Brooks says. There are too many accounts that deny this narrative. But bullying is definately possible. Did the Columbine shooting had anything to do with bullying? This is just pure speculation. I may be wrong, but I think we have to look at the fact that the two boys were vastly different in their motives and in their personality. One was a psychopath, the other one suicidal and depressive. I definately dont see revenge against bullying as far as Eric goes. I think that theres more the overall hatred for humankind. Langmann argues that teasing or bullying may have fanned the flames for hes hatred, but it's not an adequate explanation. He sees human kind as inferior. He looks at himself as the law, etc

When it comes to Dylan he was suicidal and depressed. Isnt this actually a similar pattern amongst children that are being bullied? That theres a link between childhood bullying and depression, persitent thoughts about suicide etc. I can only speculate, but if you look at it from this perspective: Judges himself harshly, he gets bullied, he looses a good friend and attaches himself to Eric. Also, theres a girl that he likes and he doesnt talk to. Both has a run in with the law, he fights with teachers, etc. Up in all of this, how much of depression is also neurological? Just pure whataboutism, Im afraid. But as for bullying I thought it was pretty obvious that bullying and mental health issues are linked.

At the same time, I feel like a topic that doesnt get adressed enough in threads here, and that I havent looked well enough into is the relationship between sexuality and repressed agression. I remember reading an interview with Klebold where they adressed that terrorists oftentimes struggled with lack of intimacy. Is this true?

I think once the class of 98 when Rocky and co. left they weren't really bullied, as stated they never mentioned it in their journals. After going through some of the 11k and a lot of jocks/athletes themselves say they simply don't talk or interact to them. The only two that that stood out with negativity in the text are;

John Selander (football player) - “he did know who Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were but that he had not talked with them for a long time and that they certainly were not friends of his. John played football and is an athlete” ... (page 7148)
Dustin Thurmon (wrestler) - "Thurmon said that he is an athlete (wrestler) and has had problems with Harris and Klebold in the past particularly one incident last school year where Harris wanted to fight Thurmon in the parking lot of the school" ... (page 7159)

I think their was some mutual dislike and aggression rather than any bullying - again this being from their year-group, not including the jocks of yesteryear for them.

What i always wondered if the bullying was so bad that even if there was some bullying after Rocky left if it just felt like less because he finally graduated.. like when your pain goes from a 10 to a 5.. or the temperature goes from negative 5 to 20, it's going to feel warmer.

Even my friend who was a senior during the shooting and was considered a popular student said she didn't like Rocky and his friends and the bullying was a lot less, but there was still a lot of ostraczing... (sp)

Plus if they were bullied from freshman to Junior year then started planning late summer before senior year, even if things were getting better bullying wise you have to imagine there were a LOT of other things going on to make them still want to go through with it...

From most of what Ive read, he strikes me as bat shit crazy in HS

For the lack of a better word, sorry.


Im sorry for hes brother, though. I think hes brother was rather nice, from what Ive heard

It seems like some people endured truly abusive behaviour at the hands of this Rocky. This is where the school should have intervened and made sure that it didnt happen. So many people gets overwhelmingly affected by bullying. The school should be a place for learning.

Appealing to authority is Cullen's answer to everything.

Larkin did a thorough analysis on the cliques at Columbine.

Ive always had the impression that this is especially a challenge in US schools. Now, bullying and alienation is a problem everywhere. But the cliques- are they still a thing in the US?

Hi [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Sorry I've been MIA so long. I was moving around for work for awhile and wound up in the Ute Mountain Ute Reservation in SW Colorado and didn't have hardly any cell service most of the time and limited internet access I used predominately for work. I'm no longer there and am back in Hawai'i living with my ohana on my dad's side with high speed data and internet lol. In the future [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] knows how to reach me directly offline on my cell if there's anything big or I disappear again for a long time.

Unfortunately the video says it's no longer available. Can you find it anywhere else?