Were Eric and Dylan homophobic?

They weren't shy about calling other guys "faggots." (Keep in mind that this was over twenty years ago.)

This is from the "Eric and Dylan's Boss" thread that I bumped a few minutes ago. The writer is Jason Secor, who worked with Eric and Dylan at Blackjack Pizza:

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Anyways, they didn't mention ketchup and tampons specifically, they were repeatedly hurt and upset by things at school, But whenever I tried to inquire, they would clam up and refer to them as "faggots", which is what they pretty much called everything they didnt like.

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As for chasing the jocks away, it was like I said. They were all pissed and winded one day and came running into the store. Asked what was wrong, to which they replied "nothing, just some faggots". Of course i prodded further, and said what about these "faggots"? They replied "some faggots are fucking with us" Of course now I was curious, and being the smart ass I am, I teased them to lighten em up a bit and tell me what was going on. I said "so a bunch of faggots are picking on ya and your all upset?". They said "some faggot jocks were throwing rocks and bottles at us". I said "where?? Out back here??" reb said "just now out back." I said "let's go get em!" we ran out back and looked around, but no one was there. Then apparently they decided I deserved a bullet in the head, little pricks. Anyways, that's almost verbatim, and happened a couple times similarly. I was 26 and full of bravado then so forgive my aggressiveness, hopefully I have matured a bit.

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Both reb and Dylan hated marilyn manson and referred to him as a "faggot", their words, not mine.

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Well xerxes, I am not sure where that "info" comes from, but I know at work day in and day out, they would refer to him, among others as a "faggot". They played rammstein DAILY. I don't mind the band, but I heard more than I cared for day and day out. So take that for what it's worth.

It's hard to say.
"Faggot" was the go to insult in my high-school.

Kids would throw that word around on a daily basis, yet I know for a fact most people that used it weren't actually homophobic.

The same thing with "gay".
It was literally used as an adjective to describe anything that was lame.


Either way it's not cool to throw around words like that, but nowadays you'll hear 4th graders saying things like  "That test was so gay".
People don't realize the power certain words have.

It'not impossible that they were homophobes, but I need more proof aside from just name calling.

Exactly.

Also I don’t think they had enough exposure back then, especially in Littleton to really “hate” gay people or really have any interaction with people who were out.

I don't think we can say that they were homophobic just because they called people "faggots". But Eric also wrote that in his journal:

Eric Harris - 5/20/98 wrote:

Gays.... well all gays, ALL gays, should be killed. Mit keine fragen. Lesbians are fun to watch if they are hot but still, its not human. It’s a fucking disease. You don’t see bulls or roosters trying to fuck, do you? No, I didn’t think so

Then he also wrote that women are inferior to men, and I'm not sure he really meant it. But I think what he wrote about gays was both an attempt at shocking people, provocation and because he was probably prejudiced (especially because as Screamingophelia pointed out, he probably didn't have enough exposure so he may have known gays only as they were portrayed in the medias, in movies...). I don't think he would have done something hateful against gay people, I think he could even have befriended a gay person but I also think that maybe he saw gay men as the cliché, feminine kind only, which was not really compatible with his idea of superiority and natural selection.

I would not really expect a teenage boy from such a conservative area in 1999 to have the most progressive liberal views on Homosexuality. Different time and place.

LadyStardust wrote:

I would not really expect a teenage boy from such a conservative area in 1999 to have the most progressive liberal views on Homosexuality. Different time and place.

I would not either, but as said above it's hard to say. "Faggot" and "gay" were used as insults and just used as a word for something someone didn't like pretty often. They still were in my rural school in the late 2000's. Of course, that doesn't mean it is okay to just toss around words like that.

Colorado is a purple state and both Eric and Dylan's parents are democrats (at least of recent years) so their area wasn't really that conservative. Also I'm bi and have a lot of gay and say "faggot" all the time as a joke. Many kids just say "gay" as an insult and aren't actually homophobic, just kinda ignorant.

They hated everyone equally in the end.

We can only speculate. I tend to separate between Eric and Dylan. I think Eric pretty much ripped on everyone and didnt care. Dylan ripped on people(To impress Eric? Atleast, according to experts), but seems to pretty much hate it. Than it's hard to tell. According to author Dave Cullen (I think), Dylan was an observant jew. I can't say wether this is accurate, as Peter Langmann says that none of them were particularly religious. This can explain homophobia to a certain degree, considering conservative religious people tend to be homophobic. I havent seen that much of evidence. I think I may have seen a few references in Eric journal

I have always wondered about the extent Eric manipulated/influenced Dylan's beliefs. Did Eric "make" Dylan racist or was Dylan racist anyway?

I believe that he was much more influenced by Eric. In case you havent read Langmanns assessment of the two, he thinks that Dylan had, for various personal reasons become Erics follower. He basically says one thing in front of Eric, something else in private. A lot of contradictions as with Eric. Allthough for Eric it's much more hes antisocial behaviour( my observation). Allthough with Dylan hes more of a follower according to reseachers

Screamingophelia wrote:

Exactly.

Also I don’t think they had enough exposure back then, especially in Littleton to really “hate” gay people or really have any interaction with people who were out.

Eric had been friends with people in Plattsburgh who were black, but would start espousing racist rhetoric against black people by his last year of life. I don't think the problem was that he just wasn't exposed to minority groups.

Neah wrote:

I don't think we can say that they were homophobic just because they called people "faggots". But Eric also wrote that in his journal:

Eric Harris - 5/20/98 wrote:

Gays.... well all gays, ALL gays, should be killed. Mit keine fragen. Lesbians are fun  to  watch  if  they  are  hot  but  still,  its  not  human.  It’s  a  fucking  disease.  You  don’t  see  bulls or roosters trying to fuck, do you? No, I didn’t think so

Then he also wrote that women are inferior to men, and I'm not sure he really meant it. But I think what he wrote about gays was both an attempt at shocking people, provocation and because he was probably prejudiced

See, whenever Eric goes off on a rant about gays, women, blacks, Jews, whatever, I'm of two minds. On one hand I don't think Eric actually, deeply believed anything he was saying, at least in the sense that it was a wholehearted conviction, like John Earnest's beliefs. OTOH, I believe Eric certainly liked the ideas associated with prejudice, that being superior-inferior dynamics. Eric wanted to boost himself above as many people as possible, so I think he took to these prejudiced ways of thinking as a way to feel superior than others. It's the sort of story you hear all the time about young Neo-Nazis and violent extremists.

QuestionMark wrote:

See, whenever Eric goes off on a rant about gays, women, blacks, Jews, whatever, I'm of two minds. On one hand I don't think Eric actually, deeply believed anything he was saying, at least in the sense that it was a wholehearted conviction, like John Earnest's beliefs. OTOH, I believe Eric certainly liked the ideas associated with prejudice, that being superior-inferior dynamics. Eric wanted to boost himself above as many people as possible, so I think he took to these prejudiced ways of thinking as a way to feel superior than others. It's the sort of story you hear all the time about young Neo-Nazis and violent extremists.

I'm inclined to believe the same thing about his rants. I don't know how I feel about them. Eric contradicted himself so much in his life that it is hard to have a solid answer. It's possible many of the things he wrote in his journal were just for show, after all he wanted us all to read it after NBK. But it's also possible that he wanted us to read his journal because that's how he truly felt about things.

What Question Mark said. I'm going to with yes, but I don't think "homophobia" was a predominant characteristic of both; that being said, the odds that either one of them would be nice to, or stand up for, gay people, particularly gay men, seem pretty small.