If Eric and Dylan never met...

What if Eric stayed in New York and ylan stayed in Colorado?  Then would either of them commit an NBK-style shooting by themself?  As far as I know, E/D are the only school shooters that didn't act alone.  Could either of them have done it without the other?  Or were both of them just destined for disaster?

There's another pair: Andrew Golden and Mitchell Johnson shot up a school in Arkansas in 1998. They survived and went to prison (and later got released).

According to Mitchell, Andrew got the idea for the shooting. He apparently was a character similar to Eric, with aggressive behaviour and a sense of grandiosity about himself. He was leading the preparation for the shooting, just like Eric.

Andrew was, unlike Dylan, a teen abused physically by his dad and sexually by another teen.

So, I think looking at the dynamic in those pairs (there are others as well) is really interesting to understand how things may have come up between Eric and Dylan.

I've been thinking Dylan had it in him to do a shooting but may not have organized things for a year in a methodical way if Eric had not been there. If he had gone shooting by himself, he would have been more impulsive.  It is also entirely possible he wouldn't have gone on killing by himself and would have chosen to commit suicide instead. Maybe Eric was that spark to action, a spur to killing, maybe Dylan needed to be with someone to go on a rampage, the way he wrote in his diary.

I don't think Eric would have done it if he had stayed in New York. Something about Littleton (or Columbine) pushed him over the edge. I can see him moving on in life and becoming a cop or something with authority.

Dylan probably would have committed suicide.

I don't think either one of them would've done a shooting by themselves. I'm still of the opinion that Colorado 'broke' something in Eric that may not have caused that big of a problem if he'd stayed in NY. I'm almost certain that if issues did indeed arise they would appear later in his life and not with the same intensity. Dylan just feels to me like he lacked the coherence in the physical to actually get everything in order for such an event as a shooting. I've always seen him commit suicide, though. I can picture a future for Eric just fine, but I keep halting on Dylan somehow.   

What if Dylan's parents had moved to California before purchasing the second house in Littleton? They would have never met each other.

TheFragile wrote:

What if Dylan's parents had moved to California before purchasing the second house in Littleton? They would have never met each other.

I think Dylan would have really liked California. I live in this wonderful state and it's very accepting and open minded. Plus I believe he would be staying in the Silicon valley area where there is a huge emphasis in computers and technology. He would have fit in just fine with all the other computer kids.

jettfyre80 wrote:

I don't think Eric would have done it if he had stayed in New York. Something about Littleton (or Columbine) pushed him over the edge. I can see him moving on in life and becoming a cop or something with authority.

Dylan probably would have committed suicide.

If Eric had stayed in Plattsbourg, NY, I don't think he would have become a cop because he would have gotten a criminal record that would disqualify him from being a cop
. Or if Eric did become a cop, he would have been kicked off the force fairly soon. IMO, Eric had a criminal mind and was very much destined to get into trouble with the law wherever he lived.

I agree with you that if Dylan had never met Eric, he probably would have eventually committed suicide anyway, just without committing a massacre.

jettfyre80 wrote:

I don't think Eric would have done it if he had stayed in New York. Something about Littleton (or Columbine) pushed him over the edge. I can see him moving on in life and becoming a cop or something with authority.

Dylan probably would have committed suicide.

Eric hated Columbine, but his dad refused to move and I thought that was ignorant. His son clearly didn't like that place and was miserable.

Let's face it, New York people would've been more accepting of Eric's lifestyle. Colorado is filled with nothing, but a bunch of hicks. Maybe that's not the case today, but it was back in the 90s.

gumshoe wrote:

jettfyre80 wrote:

I don't think Eric would have done it if he had stayed in New York. Something about Littleton (or Columbine) pushed him over the edge. I can see him moving on in life and becoming a cop or something with authority.

Dylan probably would have committed suicide.

If Eric had stayed in Plattsbourg, NY, I don't think he would have become a cop because he would have gotten a criminal record that would disqualify him from being a cop
. Or if Eric did become a cop, he would have been kicked off the force fairly soon.  IMO, Eric had a criminal  mind and was very much destined to get into trouble with the law wherever he lived.

I agree with you that if Dylan had never met Eric, he probably would have eventually committed suicide anyway, just without committing a massacre.

Well, didn't you see the video of Eric spinning his phone on the cafeteria table? That should've been a sign he felt out of place at Columbine.

I think Dylan would go on a killing spree alone and would kill, like, two times more people than they killed together.

i think dylan would have killed himself tbh

gumshoe wrote:

Or if Eric did become a cop, he would have been kicked off the force fairly soon.

This comment made me think of someone photoshopping Eric's head over Derek Chauvin's.

gumshoe wrote:

IMO, Eric had a criminal  mind and was very much destined to get into trouble with the law wherever he lived.

I don't doubt that he would've acted like a delinquent but I think him getting in trouble is up in the air since the crime that eventually did land him in deep shit was a break in that he and Dylan were largely caught by chance over. If he managed to get away with all or most of his transgressions Eric would probably be no different, at least on the surface, from millions of young adults with a rebellious streak.

bradt93 wrote:

Let's face it, New York people would've been more accepting of Eric's lifestyle. Colorado is filled with nothing, but a bunch of hicks. Maybe that's not the case today, but it was back in the 90s.

I hate to burst your bubble but I grew up in New York and there are plenty of hicks. This aside I find it highly questionable that you'd characterize Littleton as a hick town when it was a suburb of Denver, one of the largest cities in Colorado. I'm also not sure what you think Eric's "lifestyle" was or what group of people in New York would be "more accepting" of it (or indeed what they would even be accepting of), or why you seem to think the bullies at Columbine not liking Eric's "lifestyle" was why they picked on him (as opposed to just being aggressive jackasses who liked to lord over others).

QuestionMark wrote:

gumshoe wrote:

Or if Eric did become a cop, he would have been kicked off the force fairly soon.

This comment made me think of someone photoshopping Eric's head over Derek Chauvin's.  

gumshoe wrote:

IMO, Eric had a criminal  mind and was very much destined to get into trouble with the law wherever he lived.

I don't doubt that he would've acted like a delinquent but I think him getting in trouble is up in the air since the crime that eventually did land him in deep shit was a break in that he and Dylan were largely caught by chance over. If he managed to get away with all or most of his transgressions Eric would probably be no different, at least on the surface, from millions of young adults with a rebellious streak.

bradt93 wrote:

Let's face it, New York people would've been more accepting of Eric's lifestyle. Colorado is filled with nothing, but a bunch of hicks. Maybe that's not the case today, but it was back in the 90s.

I hate to burst your bubble but I grew up in New York and there are plenty of hicks. This aside I find it highly questionable that you'd characterize Littleton as a hick town when it was a suburb of Denver, one of the largest cities in Colorado. I'm also not sure what you think Eric's "lifestyle" was or what group of people in New York would be "more accepting" of it (or indeed what they would even be accepting of), or why you seem to think the bullies at Columbine not liking Eric's "lifestyle" was why they picked on him (as opposed to just being aggressive jackasses who liked to lord over others).

Well, when you have a racist like Rocky and a fat redneck like Evan Todd who the only he worshipped was football, yea it was pretty much a hick town. Evan Todd they picked on them, because they were dressed in black and they didn't "approve" of what they were like it was any of their d**n business!!

bradt93 wrote:

Well, when you have a racist like Rocky and a fat redneck like Evan Todd who the only he worshipped was football, yea it was pretty much a hick town.

Do you think only hillbillies and rednecks can be prejudiced football jocks and vice versa? In my experience “hick” is synonymous with “white trash”, which isn’t what I’d call the student body at Columbine. Most people who lived in the area seemed to be solidly middle class. I’m not disputing that the people there were close minded and perhaps prejudiced in many ways and I do believe Rocky and Evan Todd were pricks, but that doesn’t mean they were hicks.

bradt93 wrote:

Evan Todd they picked on them, because they were dressed in black and they didn't "approve" of what they were like it was any of their d**n business!!

Evan Todd also said Eric and Dylan were gay and wore makeup, I think he was making shit up to justify his bad behavior. If I remember correctly people picked on Eric largely because he was short and comparatively weak, and Dylan for being lanky and clumsy, rather than because they wore black (although I will concede that Eric wrote that people made fun of how he dressed). I don’t think prejudice motivated bullying at Columbine, I think it was motivated far more by simple cruelty and impunity. I actually think that makes it worse.

I’m not trying to be mean in my disagreements by the way, I actually appreciate the discussion.

no... I would have done it for them

JayJay wrote:

There's another pair: Andrew Golden and Mitchell Johnson shot up a school in Arkansas in 1998. They survived and went to prison (and later got released).

According to Mitchell, Andrew got the idea for the shooting. He apparently was a character similar to Eric, with aggressive behaviour and a sense of grandiosity about himself. He was leading the preparation for the shooting, just like Eric.

I just read about the shooting on March 25, 1998.
Eric started keeping his diary about a month later.
This is just my guess, but what if Eric and Dylan saw a news story about a school shooting where 4 people and 1 teacher died and thought: "Ha, if we did it, we would do it right", and further began to promote this thought?
In addition, they had already trauma in connection with the break-in of the van, and Eric began to take medication in March.