How Do You Feel About How People Romanticize Eric & Dylan?

I see a lot of this on Tumblr and even some fanfiction websites. I personally feel that it's weird, and just disrespectful. I look forward to seeing everybody's opinions on this topic.

I think it depends on how far they take it.

Going to the memorial dressed like E and D, writing letters to Sue saying they wish they could have had Dylan's baby.. that is awful.

It doesn't bother me as much if you are trying to understand why they did it, and you don't see them as total monsters, I think that is fine if you're always cognizant of what they did.

Writing is a form of expression but you are correct, there is a LOT of disturbing content on the web about them.

However there has been some good stories about Eric and Dylan that I have read, one is called Irretrievable. If someone read it and didn't know it was about people that existed I bet they would say it was a good story, almost like a character study.

Romanticizing any kind of murderer is not okay. If you feel sympathy for Eric or Dylan, I feel like that's different. I feel like there is a line between feeling sympathy for a murder and romanticizing the murderer. Maybe it is a fine line, but there is a definite line. It's okay to feel bad or sympathize with Eric and Dylan as someone who also struggled with depression and suicidal thoughts. I feel like saying commending the shooting, dressing up as them, making those tumblr flower edits, etc. is what I would classify as romanticizing them.

I agree that having sympathy for or empathizing with what Eric and Dylan went through before the massacre is understandable. I think it may even be part of the process of trying to figure out why they felt as they did and why they committed the terrible acts that they committed.
But I, too, have trouble wrapping my head around the whole idea of hybristophilia. Especially those people who actually try to justify that hybristophilia is ok and just a little further out there on the spectrum of other types of relationships. How can someone be so far in denial that not only are they fantasizing about a DEAD person who MURDERED people, but they think it's acceptable to contact that DEAD person's parent and say "I wish I'd had your son's baby"?! I don't think I'll ever understand that.

By the same token, there are also people (on Tumblr, again) that romanticize deceased victims. There's one girl who is absolutely obsessed with Corey DePooter- a boy who has been DEAD for longer than she's been alive! I don't think that's very healthy psychologically, either.

idealization is always the first and last resort when somebody has to deal with a tough personal situation in 'real' life. I don't think that those who romanticize mass murderers empathize with 'death counts' and such statistics, they usually lean more on the psychological background that led the murderers to commit slaughter and empathize with their mindset. It's disrespectful towards those who died, but feelings cannot be restrained unless the personal situation of those who glorify school shooters improves in one way or another. So that eventually an obsession gradually shifts into a more serious research about facts and circumstances that led up to the event.

I agree that it's weird and disrespectful to romanticize mass murderers. Most I feel when I think of them is a sort of vague sympathy that they were so caught up in their homicidal and suicidal thinking that they couldn't see what they had: family, friends, parents who were by all accounts loving, if perhaps somewhat distant (but that's a completely different discussion).

I have to ask though, and I hope you don't take this the wrong way. Why is your profile picture a picture of Adam Lanza? He murdered 27 people, including his mother. His child victims were 6 and 7 years old, the very epitome of innocence in my book. Wouldn't any form of a tribute to him (and I feel having his picture on your profile is a tribute of sorts) also be weird and disrespectful?

thelmar wrote:

But I, too, have trouble wrapping my head around the whole idea of hybristophilia. Especially those people who actually try to justify that hybristophilia is ok and just a little further out there on the spectrum of other types of relationships. How can someone be so far in denial that not only are they fantasizing about a DEAD person who MURDERED people, but they think it's acceptable to contact that DEAD person's parent and say "I wish I'd had your son's baby"?! I don't think I'll ever understand that.

Hybristophilia (attraction to murderers) is understandable when you consider that all female primates seek genes that will produce strong offspring. A man who kills has demonstrated he can "defend the cave", and his children will have a higher survival rate. Hence, attraction.

On that basis, and in response to the OP's question, I don't blame women for being attracted to The Boys. Though I'm not cool with the ones who take it too far by sending Sue Klebold unwanted messages and making up dumb stories. Columbiners can be a few sandwiches short of a picnic at times.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I think a lot of people (myself included) think certain shooters are cool, so we have avatars of them. Though I'm curious how anyone could find Adam to be "cool" or sympathetic.

The fan girls on Tumblr are stupid and laughable, especially the ones that would cosplay as E and D in the memorial.

AmericaMan wrote:

The fan girls on Tumblr are stupid and laughable, especially the ones that would cosplay as E and D in the memorial.

Those people are horrible... I can't imagine going to a memorial for your dead child and seeing some kids there dressed-up exactly like the person who killed your child.

I think it’s disgusting and disturbing; people who fantasize about mass murderers. I think empathy and sympathy towards them as broken human beings is a normal reaction. Just as much as anger and rage towards them is normal as well. For someone to be “in love” with a dead person or murderer that they don’t even know shows mental issues within that person.
I don’t think that all females would seek a murderer as someone who is strong and has good genes. We’ve evolved farther than this reptilian mind. These fan girls aren’t looking for a man to keep them safe, they are seeking attention and fame and are very disturbed individuals.

SenSpiritedAway wrote:

I don’t think that all females would seek a murderer as someone who is strong and has good genes. We’ve evolved farther than this reptilian mind. These fan girls aren’t looking for a man to keep them safe, they are seeking attention and fame and are very disturbed individuals.

I don't think we've "evolved further than that" at all. When was the last time a female showed her law-abiding husband the kind of love and devotion that women show mass murderers and serial killers? I know it to be a fact that when a man commits murder, women become aroused and want to bare his children.

sympathyforEandD wrote:

SenSpiritedAway wrote:

I don’t think that all females would seek a murderer as someone who is strong and has good genes. We’ve evolved farther than this reptilian mind. These fan girls aren’t looking for a man to keep them safe, they are seeking attention and fame and are very disturbed individuals.

I don't think we've "evolved further than that" at all. When was the last time a female showed her law-abiding husband the kind of love and devotion that women show mass murderers and serial killers? I know it to be a fact that when a man commits murder, women become aroused and want to bare his children.

I disagree. I don't think women who like killers like them because our mammalian brains tell us to seek out someone strong. I think these women like killers because they think the person is broken. And for some ungodly reason, they think they can be the one to fix this person. Y'know like... "if only Dylan had a loving girlfriend to talk to him about depression at three in the morning he wouldn't have shot up the school." It's that kind of mindset. These women and sometimes young girls see the killer as some poor, misguided soul that they think they can fix. For some reason they see these people as someone just in need of a little love.

You say you know for a fact that women get aroused by a mass murderer. Let me stop you here and refute your “fact”. You cannot state women in general as your fact since I am a woman and I have never been aroused by a mass murderer. Ever. All it takes is one woman to dismiss your “women fact”. How about you come back to me with a percentage instead of women as a whole.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] is correct, these girls feel they can fix someone or help someone. It seems more like they need help and someone to love them so they use this fantasy of killers as a means to fix themselves.

hvernon wrote:

sympathyforEandD wrote:

SenSpiritedAway wrote:

I don’t think that all females would seek a murderer as someone who is strong and has good genes. We’ve evolved farther than this reptilian mind. These fan girls aren’t looking for a man to keep them safe, they are seeking attention and fame and are very disturbed individuals.

I don't think we've "evolved further than that" at all. When was the last time a female showed her law-abiding husband the kind of love and devotion that women show mass murderers and serial killers? I know it to be a fact that when a man commits murder, women become aroused and want to bare his children.

I disagree. I don't think women who like killers like them because our mammalian brains tell us to seek out someone strong. I think these women like killers because they think the person is broken. And for some ungodly reason, they think they can be the one to fix this person. Y'know like... "if only Dylan had a loving girlfriend to talk to him about depression at three in the morning he wouldn't have shot up the school." It's that kind of mindset. These women and sometimes young girls see the killer as some poor, misguided soul that they think they can fix. For some reason they see these people as someone just in need of a little love.

Please. It's got nothing to do with "wanting to fix them." That's just what they say to rationalize getting moist for murderers and thugmaxxed drugdealers. When Germany occupied France in WW2, French women didn't sleep with the Nazis because they felt sorry for them. They did it because the invaders had proven themselves to have superior genetic material. Women are eugenic robots.

Edit: Removed a comment towards Sen that in hindsight was too personal.

sympathyforEandD wrote:

Please. It's got nothing to do with "wanting to fix them." That's just what they say to rationalize getting moist for murderers and thugmaxxed drugdealers. When Germany occupied France in WW2, French women didn't sleep with the Nazis because they felt sorry for them. They did it because the invaders had proven themselves to have superior genetic material. Women are eugenic robots.

Being this delusional
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Some people believe eric used dylan and that they weren’t that close

Eric was psychopath but kid had some charisma not a ton but just enough

I wonder what his iq would have been

In certain instances it just seemed he had no emotions

Have any of their classmates talked about how charming Eric was? Because I hear adults saying that he was very charming. However, I never hear any of his classmates talk about it. His friends say he could be nice and made them laugh and that he was really smart. But they don’t seem as spellbound by him as adults did.

sympathyforEandD wrote:

SenSpiritedAway wrote:

[snip]

And yet you have a quote by Ted Bundy in your signature, instead of something your husband said. Fascinating...

hvernon wrote:

sympathyforEandD wrote:

SenSpiritedAway wrote:

I don’t think that all females would seek a murderer as someone who is strong and has good genes. We’ve evolved farther than this reptilian mind. These fan girls aren’t looking for a man to keep them safe, they are seeking attention and fame and are very disturbed individuals.

I don't think we've "evolved further than that" at all. When was the last time a female showed her law-abiding husband the kind of love and devotion that women show mass murderers and serial killers? I know it to be a fact that when a man commits murder, women become aroused and want to bare his children.

I disagree. I don't think women who like killers like them because our mammalian brains tell us to seek out someone strong. I think these women like killers because they think the person is broken. And for some ungodly reason, they think they can be the one to fix this person. Y'know like... "if only Dylan had a loving girlfriend to talk to him about depression at three in the morning he wouldn't have shot up the school." It's that kind of mindset. These women and sometimes young girls see the killer as some poor, misguided soul that they think they can fix. For some reason they see these people as someone just in need of a little love.

Please. It's got nothing to do with "wanting to fix them." That's just what they say to rationalize getting moist for murderers and thugmaxxed drugdealers. When Germany occupied France in WW2, French women didn't sleep with the Nazis because they felt sorry for them. They did it because the invaders had proven themselves to have superior genetic material. Women are eugenic robots.

everybody is "an eugenic robot", if we want to word it this way. We all search, with no exception, for what we feel the best survival qualities are, in a partner. Cut-and-dried.

HanShotFirst wrote:

sympathyforEandD wrote:

Please. It's got nothing to do with "wanting to fix them." That's just what they say to rationalize getting moist for murderers and thugmaxxed drugdealers. When Germany occupied France in WW2, French women didn't sleep with the Nazis because they felt sorry for them. They did it because the invaders had proven themselves to have superior genetic material. Women are eugenic robots.

Being this delusional
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

And very angry at women, in general.

thelmar wrote:

By the same token, there are also people (on Tumblr, again) that romanticize deceased victims. There's one girl who is absolutely obsessed with Corey DePooter- a boy who has been DEAD for longer than she's been alive! I don't think that's very healthy psychologically, either.

This girl reminds me of Lynn Ann. Her shrine of Corey and kissing his picture is really something else... then she gets upset about people coming to her about how weird it is.

But my input on this topic: I agree that it's okay to feel sympathy and/or empathy toward Eric and Dylan. I don't agree with the people that think they would have had a chance with them as if it would change the course of history. Talk about delusional.

I think the upside is... That at least part of this is a collective coping mechanism. A way to deal with things this senseless. Let's turn Rachel into a saint and martyr, let's turn those two schmucks into some edgy symbols of the 90s and dark entertainment figures.

A lot of it probably has to do with the fact that Klebold and Harris did not represent the worst of us. They did murder people, but as human beings, they were probably more pitiful than repulsive. It's not like they were disgusting monsters. They possessed wit and creativity which made the shooting interesting. And while it's true that without Columbine, none of us would likely be watching Radioactive Clothing, their creativity and wit alone are something we collectively appreciate on humans in general.

So perhaps there actually are positives in people being able to see something humane and good about Eric and Dylan.

The downside is, some people are incredibly hopeless/stupid and might take it as an incentive to go and shoot someone themselves.

I'm not too familiar with the TumbIr Columbiners; just the folks writing some of the video comments on YT. And some of it (worship overtones) I think goes too far. On the other hand, we retro-demonize or retro-romanticize pretty much everything (we don't forget) in life. So I think it's pretty natural and I don't blame pubescent girls going on about how cute or whatever they were. I'm not even sure it is so disrespectful towards the families of the victims, as nobody (I think) shoves this into their faces. It's not like Nazi skinheads marching the streets in the name of Hitler and denying Holocaust.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] the Corey fangirl said people who commit suicide are sent straight to hell. She also made fun of Sue Klebold having cancer.

Gold Digger wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] the Corey fangirl said people who commit suicide are sent straight to hell. She also made fun of Sue Klebold having cancer.

She’s awful and needs help is all I’m going to say about her...

I find it to be really annoying and disrespectful. Girls romanticizing infamous criminals has always been a thing, but I find it to be pathetic. If they empathize or find them attractive without romanticizing them that's fine by me though.

Ted Bundy actually got married and had a kid while in prison for the murders he would be executed for. I've always wondered what that stupid woman's malfunction was, but it really is quite common.

I agree with Carnifex879. Attraction doesn’t bother me so much as actual infatuation if that makes any sense.

A part of me tends to see it as sickening. But than we all know how much society collectively condemn pedophilia and Minor Attracted People and basically dont have a clue that pedophilia is a disorder, not an act. And thats when the question pops up: Can people help what they are attracted to?

I think it boils down to wether or not they have a choice. This is called hybristophilia- a sexual attraction towards serial killers etc. As we all know, there are women that will dall for bad guys, mostly because they have issues with themselves. They have grown up with abusive parenting etc. I think it boils down to how much of it is environmental. As far as I know theres still some debate over wether or not homosexuality is something that you are born with or something thats environmental. But than again, Im no expert.

To sum it up: One side of me says 'why would you do that?'.

The other side suggests that maybe we dont actually know them and their history, and wether they can actually help it. I mean: Society- because of the medias constant dis- information- tends to be extremely morally condemning as far as pedophilia is concerned- in spite of it being first off all a disorder, and in spite of the fact that the term is not to be confused with that of child molestation- which is the sexual exploitation of children, which of course is definately not OK. So how do we know that this term doesnt apply to other filias? Such as necrophilia.

Can we say that people have much of a choice in what they are attracted to?

Or maybe the question should be: Where does this all come from? By all means, I do not imply that you should get into a relationship with an abusive asshole. But I also think that people that do this tend to have problems with themselves in the first place.

Than of course I think we should ask ourselves is it a fetish or is it real? As far as I know having a fetish isnt necessarily what you do IRL. Than again, when you start sending love letters to Nikolas Cruz or any serial killer for that matter I cant help but thinking 'what went wrong with these women'. To me that kind of seems like lack of self reapect and respect for the people that they have murdered.

Im kind of clueless about hybristophilia as a whole, so those are the three things that pops up. If that is a real disorder, however, maybe that begs the question wether they can help their own attractions or not. Any thoughts?

Not to @ anyone in particular, but I think it's ridiculous how people pick on/ridicule girls who are attracted to The Boys. People still make YouTube videos about Lynn Ann, calling her crazy, with zero regard for how that might affect her mental heath or even her job. I think her love for Eric is really sweet. She's been head over heels about him for years. As usual, the Internet loves telling people what they're allowed to like.

I think this is a rather complicated question because there are probably different reasons why someone romanticize them.

Leaving aside people with mental health problems like Lynn Ann, there are probably relatively okay people who may have identified with them, developed an obsession and then feelings.

To some, they may just be physically attractive, without deeper thinking. Some may have been won over by Dylan's emo side as shown in his journal, and some may even like Eric's aggressiveness and wannabe domination aka. his "bad boy" image.

Some, however, have been falling in love with broken people who need to be fixed all their lives (Freud would have a lot to say) and others may just likes to fantasize about the "what if" situations, etc.

I think all these feelings are okay, as everyone is free to think whatever they want.

What is important is that we do not treat each other badly and showing disrespect to the victims and  it doesn't really matter if someone is jerking off thinking of Eric and Dylan.

How Do You Feel About How People Romanticize Eric & Dylan?

I find them to not be right in the head.  I find it unnatural, abnormal and/or inhuman.  I am referring the idolatry of these two (or any of the mass shooters for that matter).  Fascination and sympathy/empathy are completely different.  
They're not heroes, they're not role models (shouldn't be).  It's an inappropriate mindset as far as I am concerned.  In the case of women or girls genuflecting to them like they're some rock stars, I tend to believe they're just as troubled as the men or boys who want to carry out similar plans when they cite them in their manifestos.

sympathyforEandD wrote:

They did it because the invaders had proven themselves to have superior genetic material. Women are eugenic robots.

Plenty of single LEO/Firefighters/Military men out there.  Lots of Alphas.  Don't think attraction to homicidal tendencies is a genetic precursor to procreating.

I kind of understand it. Eric and Dylan were decent looking and relatable in many ways. I can see a certain type romanticizing them. Someone like Adam Lanza though....that I don’t get.

[Redacted]

AmericaMan wrote:

SandraSmit19 wrote:

Ted Bundy actually got married and had a kid while in prison for the murders he would be executed for. I've always wondered what that stupid woman's malfunction was, but it really is quite common.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Hard to say if Bundy was hybristophilia since, as I recall, she broke it off with him once he was convicted and/or admitted the crime, and Bundy was considered attractive.  It's possible it's justifying hybristophilia by telling yourself he didn't do it, and there are definitely some women who mention like "ooh i wonder if he's gonna beat me;" but it also seems like for many there was an attraction to him when they thought he was innocent which he exploited. Also the fact that his victims were women. It's much rarer to find those attracted to say John Gacy or Wayne Williams, despite their being just as criminal. A lot of murderers have had people attracted to them over their crimes, but a lot have also had wives and girlfriends who didn't know about that yet still managed to find them attractive.

I think a lot of the time the attraction to dead men or imprisoned men is a fear of intimacy. Unavailable men are safe. Infatuation from a distance is also safe. They get the thrill of infatuation without the vulnerabilities of a real relationship.

I consider myself a columbiner. I don't create false images of them in my head. I don't glorify what they did either. I just like them and i'm willing to look past what they did

(Trigger alert: Some people may find what I write disturbing. I normally do not talk about this online, as some people may have had experiences with child abuse etc, growing up).

I have to stress that IDK that much about hybristophilia, but, than again, Im no expert on sexuality.

But I think it begs the question: Can they help it, and much of it is due to environmental factors?

Im only aware of another controversial topic thats been brought up over the years, and that is the topic of how society looks at pedophilia. Given that Pedophilia is actually a disorder
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

And Im not exactly sure that all pedophiles are child molesters.

My point is that I think it's possible that we sometimes should ask the question of how much of what we are attracted to is a choice or a result of the environment etc.

If the argument is 'Eric and Dylan were heroes that stood up to the bullies', you are absolutely wrong by all accounts. Yet, at the same time,.I think a lot of them are actually hurting and they need help, not scorn

sympathyforEandD wrote:

Not to @ anyone in particular, but I think it's ridiculous how people pick on/ridicule girls who are attracted to The Boys. People still make YouTube videos about Lynn Ann, calling her crazy, with zero regard for how that might affect her mental heath or even her job. I think her love for Eric is really sweet. She's been head over heels about him for years. As usual, the Internet loves telling people what they're allowed to like.

.

Well, the thing about Lynn Ann is kind off understandable. I also get the impression that she has a tendency towards getting into fights with people, allthough, I can't verify this. But she does seem to have problems in one way or another, so ridiculing her probably wont do any good

I understand how people can relate to Eric and Dylan, but it doesn't make sense to me how they turn that into idolization or romanticizing what they did (excluding hybristophilia). I know for me, having had experiences with bullying and depression and being able to relate to them a bit has made me condemn their actions more harshly than I otherwise might, because I know that there are other options when you're having those problems.

kraut wrote:

I understand how people can relate to Eric and Dylan, but it doesn't make sense to me how they turn that into idolization or romanticizing what they did (excluding hybristophilia). I know for me, having had experiences with bullying and depression and being able to relate to them a bit has made me condemn their actions more harshly than I otherwise might, because I know that there are other options when you're having those problems.

.

Its because they see Eric and Dylan as fighting back against the society that bullied them, which, of course, isnt true. As for Lynn Ann, she seems to have issues in one way or another. You can tell that shes clearly not that well.

Sure they might have been bullied and they did some bullying themselves, but thats not what the massacre was all about. It never was. This narrative has to be challenged, as for the most part, school shootings arent really about that. Yes, bullying is a factor, but it's not a cause

It's pretty disturbing, actually.

Columbiners from my point of view are just lonely and delusional individuals looking for someone to relate to.

Obviously, romanticizing mass murderers is sickening.

As responsible and reasonable researchers of Columbine, we should reject any forms of romanticization.

However, there is a kernel of truth in where these people are coming from; that is Eric and Dylan were, in many ways, victims themselves. That said, there is being a victim and then there is being a victim who commits mass murder. We should never forget that.

To understand Columbine, one must understand Eric and Dylan. If one ignores that they were victims themselves, then one is missing the point.

Personally, I subscribe to the "perfect storm" theory. And believe that (1) there was something about their biochemistry makeups that primed them for such a type of horrific response, (2) their environment clearly exacerbated their physical and mental issues, i.e. think the intense bullying culture of Columbine at the time, and (3) the two formed a unique, symbiotic relationship without which the massacre would have likely never occurred.

smiggleshamster wrote:

I see a lot of this on Tumblr and even some fanfiction websites. I personally feel that it's weird, and just disrespectful. I look forward to seeing everybody's opinions on this topic.

It's disrespectful, yes, but I personally can't really bring myself to care. We have MUCH bigger issues than people writing Dylric fanfiction.

Mhm....Eric and Dylan.... looking quite scrumptious......mhm.....OH MISREAD THE QUESTION!