What if they had girlfriends

Just a random thought that popped up scrolling through here again.

What if in theory Eric and Dylan both had a steady girlfriend during their early high school days or even in the last year before the massacre. Do you think that would of changed their mentality about life and themselves? Or do you think their rage was spawned from something deeper as well such as being labeled "outcasts", not being popular/jock status, or even just hate of society as a whole.

Do you think the girlfriends would of persuaded the boys thoughts to not do the massacre? (not directly of course, psychologically).

I have probably a very unpopular viewpoint on this, which is that yes, if they had had girlfriends or SOMETHING meaningful in their lives beyond rejection and anger that the massacre may never have happened.
They were two very messed up individuals and mental illness is not going to disappear just because a pretty girl wants to hold your hand, please don’t think that’s what I’m trying to say. (I’m very tired and probably not articulating myself well at all.)
If one thing had been different - falling in love that was reciprocated, something changing in their little “two man war” could well have derailed their whole plan. I think that if one of them had backed out, the other would not have gone on alone.

That’s not to say that they would not have shot up a college campus 2 years later if they got dumped. They weren’t going to be “cured” of their issues by a girl or anyone else, maybe just distracted from thoughts of mass murder. In a perfect story, maybe they’d have met a girl who would have been savvy and smart enough to see that they needed help and may have actually gotten some proper intervention before anything bad happened. So yeah, I think if at least one of them felt like they had a little bit of happiness/acceptance/respect/love, whatever it was they were looking for that they would have been in a slightly different mental place.
I really hope that makes sense lol

Both did date at least some... I doubt it would have made a difference

Dylan especially. He had some lofty criteria for girls. He would write about loving XYZ then the next week he realized she had flaws (IE was human) and now he loved someone else. I don't think anyone would have measured up to his standards and thus he would have never loved anyone enough.

As far as Eric goes, maybe.... but it would have to be a pretty darn serious relationship. And it would have to be something to pull him away from Dylan which would have been hard to do.

Can't depend on someone else to save you though... so the short answer for both is no I don't believe it would have changed a thing

I think it would have made a difference. I can imagine that if Eric and Susan had become a serious couple (earlier) it would have increased the likelihood of Dylan committing suicide (without murder) because he would have felt abandoned for a second time by his best friend (after Zach/Devon). If it were the other way around and Dylan’s girlfriend had gotten in the way of their plan, I’m sure she would have ended up on Eric’s list and had likely been in danger.

Sometimes it's rather simple - teenagers, especially males, are often thinking with their reproductive organs, instead of brains, so yeah...that one, relatively minor, but at the same time, very powerful variable of having a girlfriend would probably made a huge difference.

Lizpuff wrote:

Both did date at least some... I doubt it would have made a difference

Dylan especially.  He had some lofty criteria for girls.  He would write about loving XYZ then the next week he realized she had flaws (IE was human) and now he loved someone else.  I don't think anyone would have measured up to his standards and thus he would have never loved anyone enough.  

As far as Eric goes, maybe.... but it would have to be a pretty darn serious relationship.  And it would have to be something to pull him away from Dylan which would have been hard to do.  

Can't depend on someone else to save you though... so the short answer for both is no I don't believe it would have changed a thing

Agree with all of this, but especially the last sentence.

There are theories in psychology that a person's mental state can't really be changed by external forces. I am still on the fence about that though.

Like they say if someone is depressed mentally, and they win a million dollars, they will continue being depressed. Or if someone was feeling lonely and got a intimate relationship they would still feel lonely mentally.

I think there is some truth to that but I also believe external factors also contribute a huge sum to how we feel mentally/emotionally.

joebox97 wrote:

There are theories in psychology that a person's mental state can't really be changed by external forces. I am still on the fence about that though.

Like they say if someone is depressed mentally, and they win a million dollars, they will continue being depressed. Or if someone was feeling lonely and got a intimate relationship they would still feel lonely mentally.

I think there is some truth to that but I also believe external factors also contribute a huge sum to how we feel mentally/emotionally.

There is that cliche saying that money cant buy happiness. I think it is extremely true. Looking at what you said even and like at the people that win the lottery.... there are shows about it on TV how these people's lives crash down still. Now I am not saying that if you win the lottery it won't make you happier.... but deep down inside you are the same person. Sure now you may not worry about bills and you can buy whatever you want, but IMO those things are not usually the things that actually make someone depressed.

I do think that if Eric and Dylan had been accepted earlier in life things *could* have potentially been different. However, expecting something like a girlfriend to completely change someone like Dylan is farfetched in my mind. Dylan had some really really deep issues -as did Eric. I don't think any normal high school aged girl could have ever stood a chance to drag them into happiness. Imagine the mental load they would have to take on.

joebox97 wrote:

There are theories in psychology that a person's mental state can't really be changed by external forces.

But if that was true, then no therapy would have any effect, right? Apart from pills that activate certain neurotransmitters.

For example, it's not that Dylan suddenly became depressed. He may have had some predispositions, but it was mostly due to certain external factors.
Therefore I think a circumstance like having a girlfriend would still help.
Maybe not radically, but she would at least contribute to distance him a little from the bad decision he made.

I don't know, maybe I'm thinking too optimistically.

Onyx wrote:

joebox97 wrote:

There are theories in psychology that a person's mental state can't really be changed by external forces.

But if that was true, then no therapy would have any effect, right? Apart from pills that activate certain neurotransmitters.

For example, it's not that Dylan suddenly became depressed. He may have had some predispositions, but it was mostly due to certain external factors.
Therefore I think a circumstance like having a girlfriend would still help.
Maybe not radically, but she would at least contribute to distance him a little from the bad decision he made.

I don't know, maybe I'm thinking too optimistically.

I dont think its bad to remain optimistic

But both boys went thru therapy. Neither one wanted it to work and it didn't. Eric and Dylan both lied enough to get pushed thru... Eric more than Dylan. In any case, you need to want help to get help. Im just not sure that they wanted help enough to get out with just a gf

Lizpuff wrote:

Onyx wrote:

joebox97 wrote:

There are theories in psychology that a person's mental state can't really be changed by external forces.

But if that was true, then no therapy would have any effect, right? Apart from pills that activate certain neurotransmitters.

For example, it's not that Dylan suddenly became depressed. He may have had some predispositions, but it was mostly due to certain external factors.
Therefore I think a circumstance like having a girlfriend would still help.
Maybe not radically, but she would at least contribute to distance him a little from the bad decision he made.

I don't know, maybe I'm thinking too optimistically.

I dont think its bad to remain optimistic

But both boys went thru therapy.  Neither one wanted it to work and it didn't.  Eric and Dylan both lied enough to get pushed thru... Eric more than Dylan.  In any case, you need to want help to get help.  Im just not sure that they wanted help enough to get out with just a gf

Of course, I agree with you.

Every change starts within...but there are still external factors that motivate you to start that change.