Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.
Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum

A place to discuss the Columbine High School Massacre along with other school shootings and crimes.
Anyone interested in researching, learning, discussing and debating with us, please come join our community!
 
HomeHome  PortalPortal  CalendarCalendar  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
 

 Did Jeffrey Dahmer have Asperger's Disorder?

Go down 
AuthorMessage
Ivan
Security
Ivan

Posts : 3929
Contribution Points : 79120
Forum Reputation : 185
Join date : 2013-03-15
Age : 26

Did Jeffrey Dahmer have Asperger's Disorder? Empty
PostSubject: Did Jeffrey Dahmer have Asperger's Disorder?   Did Jeffrey Dahmer have Asperger's Disorder? Icon_minitimeSat Jun 27, 2020 3:14 am

I've been doing research on Jeffrey Dahmer and I've come across some professional opinions that dictate Jeffrey had Asperger's and not psychopathy.

The main reason being that he was socially awkward, shy and distant. He didn't have many, if any friends growing up. It's also a common theme among people with Asperger's that they have a lack of empathy and/or a way to relate to others.

Cary Stayner, another serial killer was diagnosed with Asperger's Disorder as a comparison tool.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
downwardspiral

downwardspiral

Posts : 190
Contribution Points : 6816
Forum Reputation : 281
Join date : 2020-03-02

Did Jeffrey Dahmer have Asperger's Disorder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Did Jeffrey Dahmer have Asperger's Disorder?   Did Jeffrey Dahmer have Asperger's Disorder? Icon_minitimeSat Jun 27, 2020 6:15 pm

The real mystery is why every psychiatrist seems to have a wildly different opinion on what was wrong with the dude. Psychopath, borderline personality disorder, psychosis, Aspergers, etc. And they were actually able to evaluate him in person, unlike many killers. If they weren't just making things up as they went along, shouldn't they all have been able to come to a more or less consistent conclusion on what he had?

QuestionMark likes this post

Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
Cyrinus
Top 10 Contributor
Cyrinus

Posts : 1094
Contribution Points : 58091
Forum Reputation : 1743
Join date : 2016-11-22
Location : Misery

Did Jeffrey Dahmer have Asperger's Disorder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Did Jeffrey Dahmer have Asperger's Disorder?   Did Jeffrey Dahmer have Asperger's Disorder? Icon_minitimeSat Jun 27, 2020 9:37 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
The real mystery is why every psychiatrist seems to have a wildly different opinion on what was wrong with the dude. Psychopath, borderline personality disorder, psychosis, Aspergers, etc. And they were actually able to evaluate him in person, unlike many killers. If they weren't just making things up as they went along, shouldn't they all have been able to come to a more or less consistent conclusion on what he had?

Maybe the whole cannibalism thing just throws them all off?

_________________
Previously: hvernon



"...we will be free, to explore the vast wonders of the stars. To cascade down everlong waterfalls, & thru the warmest seas of pure happiness... no limits... no limits. Nothing will stop us. "


-Dylan Klebold
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
downwardspiral

downwardspiral

Posts : 190
Contribution Points : 6816
Forum Reputation : 281
Join date : 2020-03-02

Did Jeffrey Dahmer have Asperger's Disorder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Did Jeffrey Dahmer have Asperger's Disorder?   Did Jeffrey Dahmer have Asperger's Disorder? Icon_minitimeSat Jun 27, 2020 10:49 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Maybe the whole cannibalism thing just throws them all off?

I don't think so, because this happens in a lot of cases that require a psychological evaluation.
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
Ivan
Security
Ivan

Posts : 3929
Contribution Points : 79120
Forum Reputation : 185
Join date : 2013-03-15
Age : 26

Did Jeffrey Dahmer have Asperger's Disorder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Did Jeffrey Dahmer have Asperger's Disorder?   Did Jeffrey Dahmer have Asperger's Disorder? Icon_minitimeSun Jun 28, 2020 5:01 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
The real mystery is why every psychiatrist seems to have a wildly different opinion on what was wrong with the dude. Psychopath, borderline personality disorder, psychosis, Aspergers, etc. And they were actually able to evaluate him in person, unlike many killers. If they weren't just making things up as they went along, shouldn't they all have been able to come to a more or less consistent conclusion on what he had?
Because it was an open and shut case. This morbid curiosity surrounding him didn't come into full effect until decades after he'd passed away.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
QuestionMark
Top 10 Contributor
QuestionMark

Posts : 3798
Contribution Points : 76561
Forum Reputation : 2873
Join date : 2017-09-04

Did Jeffrey Dahmer have Asperger's Disorder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Did Jeffrey Dahmer have Asperger's Disorder?   Did Jeffrey Dahmer have Asperger's Disorder? Icon_minitimeSun Jun 28, 2020 11:27 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
The real mystery is why every psychiatrist seems to have a wildly different opinion on what was wrong with the dude. Psychopath, borderline personality disorder, psychosis, Aspergers, etc. And they were actually able to evaluate him in person, unlike many killers. If they weren't just making things up as they went along, shouldn't they all have been able to come to a more or less consistent conclusion on what he had?
Because it was an open and shut case. This morbid curiosity surrounding him didn't come into full effect until decades after he'd passed away.

?

I find every aspect of this statement confusing. Firstly is that it appears to have nothing to do with the quoted post at all - why would it matter if it's "open and shut"? How does that cause the psychologists to suggests literally half a dozen psychiatric disorders, some of them contradictory, for the same person? Secondly, the Dahmer trial was showered in media attention in the same vein of previous killers like Bundy, Ramirez, and others. It is definitely not true that people were only interested decades after he died.

_________________
"My guns are the only things that haven't stabbed me in the back."
-Kip Kinkel

downwardspiral likes this post

Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
Ivan
Security
Ivan

Posts : 3929
Contribution Points : 79120
Forum Reputation : 185
Join date : 2013-03-15
Age : 26

Did Jeffrey Dahmer have Asperger's Disorder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Did Jeffrey Dahmer have Asperger's Disorder?   Did Jeffrey Dahmer have Asperger's Disorder? Icon_minitimeSun Jun 28, 2020 12:26 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
The real mystery is why every psychiatrist seems to have a wildly different opinion on what was wrong with the dude. Psychopath, borderline personality disorder, psychosis, Aspergers, etc. And they were actually able to evaluate him in person, unlike many killers. If they weren't just making things up as they went along, shouldn't they all have been able to come to a more or less consistent conclusion on what he had?
Because it was an open and shut case. This morbid curiosity surrounding him didn't come into full effect until decades after he'd passed away.

?

I find every aspect of this statement confusing. Firstly is that it appears to have nothing to do with the quoted post at all - why would it matter if it's "open and shut"? How does that cause the psychologists to suggests literally half a dozen psychiatric disorders, some of them contradictory, for the same person? Secondly, the Dahmer trial was showered in media attention in the same vein of previous killers like Bundy, Ramirez, and others. It is definitely not true that people were only interested decades after he died.
True to form I have to explain myself to you again.

Why would it matter if it's open and shut? Because less time would be allocated toward figuring out how and why Jeffrey Dahmer was a monster.. just that he was one.

Media attention surrounding his actions. Again, more about what he was - not why or how he came to be. More fascination behind his morbid act of devouring his victims and less about his inadequate social behavior or even his childhood activity of finding dead animals and melting the flesh away. Dahmer didn't grow up abusing animals, instead he was obsessed with their bone structure.

People started to become more interested in his mind after he'd passed away and more of his early years were discussed.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
downwardspiral

downwardspiral

Posts : 190
Contribution Points : 6816
Forum Reputation : 281
Join date : 2020-03-02

Did Jeffrey Dahmer have Asperger's Disorder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Did Jeffrey Dahmer have Asperger's Disorder?   Did Jeffrey Dahmer have Asperger's Disorder? Icon_minitimeSun Jun 28, 2020 12:40 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
True to form I have to explain myself to you again.

Why would it matter if it's open and shut? Because less time would be allocated toward figuring out how and why Jeffrey Dahmer was a monster.. just that he was one.

Media attention surrounding his actions. Again, more about what he was - not why or how he came to be. More fascination behind his morbid act of devouring his victims and less about his inadequate social behavior or even his childhood activity of finding dead animals and melting the flesh away. Dahmer didn't grow up abusing animals, instead he was obsessed with their bone structure.

People started to become more interested in his mind after he'd passed away and more of his early years were discussed.

His psychiatric evaluations had nothing to do with media publicity. The state does not pay for half a dozen psychiatrists to evaluate someone just because the public is curious. They were done as part of the trial to determine whether he was legally insane or not.

And the case was not considered to be open and shut. The question of whether he was legally insane, was basically the major question of the trial, and there was a lot of controversy among the psychiatrists over whether he was of sound mind and what his diagnoses were.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

QuestionMark likes this post

Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
Ivan
Security
Ivan

Posts : 3929
Contribution Points : 79120
Forum Reputation : 185
Join date : 2013-03-15
Age : 26

Did Jeffrey Dahmer have Asperger's Disorder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Did Jeffrey Dahmer have Asperger's Disorder?   Did Jeffrey Dahmer have Asperger's Disorder? Icon_minitimeSun Jun 28, 2020 4:35 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
True to form I have to explain myself to you again.

Why would it matter if it's open and shut? Because less time would be allocated toward figuring out how and why Jeffrey Dahmer was a monster.. just that he was one.

Media attention surrounding his actions. Again, more about what he was - not why or how he came to be. More fascination behind his morbid act of devouring his victims and less about his inadequate social behavior or even his childhood activity of finding dead animals and melting the flesh away. Dahmer didn't grow up abusing animals, instead he was obsessed with their bone structure.

People started to become more interested in his mind after he'd passed away and more of his early years were discussed.

His psychiatric evaluations had nothing to do with media publicity. The state does not pay for half a dozen psychiatrists to evaluate someone just because the public is curious. They were done as part of the trial to determine whether he was legally insane or not.

And the case was not considered to be open and shut. The question of whether he was legally insane, was basically the major question of the trial, and there was a lot of controversy among the psychiatrists over whether he was of sound mind and what his diagnoses were.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
It was open and shut. He'd murdered those men, in a premeditated manner, over the course of several years. The insanity plea would have zero bearing to those who know how the judicial system works. He was going to be deemed "sane" and accountable for his actions based on that alone.

Morein the public curosity came after the trial and even later, after his death, due to the unanswered questions. You'll also find half those psychiatric assessments came post mortem when it didn't carry anywhere near as much weight, if any.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
downwardspiral

downwardspiral

Posts : 190
Contribution Points : 6816
Forum Reputation : 281
Join date : 2020-03-02

Did Jeffrey Dahmer have Asperger's Disorder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Did Jeffrey Dahmer have Asperger's Disorder?   Did Jeffrey Dahmer have Asperger's Disorder? Icon_minitimeSun Jun 28, 2020 6:48 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
It was open and shut. He'd murdered those men, in a premeditated manner, over the course of several years. The insanity plea would have zero bearing to those who know how the judicial system works. He was going to be deemed "sane" and accountable for his actions based on that alone.

Morein the public curosity came after the trial and even later, after his death, due to the unanswered questions. You'll also find half those psychiatric assessments came post mortem when it didn't carry anywhere near as much weight, if any.

The evaluations were during the trial to determine sanity. Clearly you did not read the link I posted.

****

The issue debated by opposing counsels at Dahmer's trial was to determine whether he suffered from either a mental or a personality disorder: the prosecution claiming that any disorders did not deprive Dahmer of the ability to appreciate the criminality of his conduct or to deprive him of the ability to resist his impulses; the defense arguing that Dahmer suffered from a mental disease and was driven by obsessions and impulses he was unable to control.

Defense experts argued that Dahmer was insane due to his necrophilic drive – his compulsion to have sexual encounters with corpses. Defense expert Dr. Fred Berlin testified that Dahmer was unable to conform his conduct at the time that he committed the crimes because he was suffering from paraphilia or, more specifically, necrophilia. Dr. Judith Becker, a professor of psychiatry and psychology, was the second expert witness for the defense; Becker also diagnosed Dahmer with necrophilia. The final defense expert to testify, forensic psychiatrist Dr. Carl Wahlstrom, diagnosed Dahmer with necrophilia, borderline personality disorder, schizotypal personality disorder, alcohol dependence, and a psychotic disorder.

The prosecution rejected the defense's argument that Dahmer was insane. Forensic psychiatrist Dr. Phillip Resnick testified that Dahmer did not suffer from primary necrophilia because he preferred live sexual partners as evidenced by his efforts to create unresistant, submissive sexual partners devoid of rational thought and to whose needs he did not have to cater. Another prosecution expert to testify, Dr. Fred Fosdel, testified to his belief that Dahmer was without mental disease or defect at the time he committed the murders. He described Dahmer as a calculating and cunning individual, able to differentiate between right and wrong, with the ability to control his actions. Although Fosdel did state his belief that Dahmer suffered from paraphilia, his conclusion was that Dahmer was not a sadist.

The final witness to appear for the prosecution, forensic psychiatrist Park Dietz, began his testimony on February 12. Dietz testified that he did not believe Dahmer to be suffering from any mental disease or defect at the time that he committed the crimes, stating: "Dahmer went to great lengths to be alone with his victim and to have no witnesses." He explained that there was ample evidence that Dahmer prepared in advance for each murder, therefore, his crimes were not impulsive. Although Dietz did concede any acquisition of a paraphilia was not a matter of personal choice, he also stated his belief that Dahmer's habit of becoming intoxicated prior to committing each of the murders was significant, stating: "If he had a compulsion to kill, he would not have to drink alcohol. He had to drink alcohol to overcome his inhibition, to do the crime which he would rather not do."

Dietz also noted that Dahmer strongly identified with evil and corrupt characters from both The Exorcist III and Return of the Jedi; particularly the level of power held by these characters. Expounding on the significance of these movies on Dahmer's psyche and many of the murders committed at the Oxford Apartments, Dietz explained that Dahmer occasionally viewed scenes from these films before searching for a victim. Dietz diagnosed Dahmer with substance use disorder, paraphilia, and schizotypal personality disorder.

Two court-appointed mental health professionals—testifying independently of either prosecution or defense—were forensic psychiatrist George Palermo and clinical psychologist Samuel Friedman. Palermo stated that the murders were the result of a "pent-up aggression within himself [Dahmer]. He killed those men because he wanted to kill the source of his homosexual attraction to them. In killing them, he killed what he hated in himself." Palermo concluded that Dahmer was a sexual sadist with antisocial personality disorder, but legally sane.

Friedman testified that it was a longing for companionship that caused Dahmer to kill. He stated, "Mr. Dahmer is not psychotic." He spoke kindly of Dahmer, describing him as, "Amiable, pleasant to be with, courteous, with a sense of humor, conventionally handsome, and charming in manner. He was, and still is, a bright young man." He diagnosed Dahmer with a personality disorder not otherwise specified featuring borderline, obsessive-compulsive, and sadistic traits.

The trial lasted two weeks. On February 14, both counsels delivered their closing arguments to the jury. Each counsel was allowed to speak for two hours. Defense attorney Gerald Boyle argued first. Repeatedly harking to the testimony of the mental health professionals—almost all of whom had agreed Dahmer was suffering from a mental disease—Boyle argued that Dahmer's compulsive killings had been a result of "a sickness he discovered, not chose." Boyle portrayed Dahmer as a desperately lonely and profoundly sick individual "so out of control he could not conform his conduct any more."

Following the defense counsel's 75-minute closing argument, Michael McCann delivered his closing argument for the prosecution, describing Dahmer as a sane man, in full control of his actions, who simply strove to avoid detection. McCann argued that the act of murder was committed in hostility, anger, resentment, frustration, or hatred, and that the 15 victims for whose murder he was tried "died merely to afford Dahmer a period of sexual pleasure." McCann further argued that by pleading guilty but insane to the charges, Dahmer was seeking to escape responsibility for his crimes.

On February 15, the court reconvened to hear the verdict: Dahmer was ruled to be sane and not suffering from a mental disorder at the time of each of the 15 murders for which he was tried, although in each count, two of the 12 jurors signified their dissent.
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
QuestionMark
Top 10 Contributor
QuestionMark

Posts : 3798
Contribution Points : 76561
Forum Reputation : 2873
Join date : 2017-09-04

Did Jeffrey Dahmer have Asperger's Disorder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Did Jeffrey Dahmer have Asperger's Disorder?   Did Jeffrey Dahmer have Asperger's Disorder? Icon_minitimeMon Jun 29, 2020 1:05 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
True to form I have to explain myself to you again.

This is because you are being way too vague when you write. If you don't want me to ask for clarification, make it clear the first time. That's what I try to do with my posts - leave as little ambiguity as possible because I recognize that other people reading might get confused. Now I will say that I appreciate that you are making an effort to articulate what you really meant and I can have a healthy discussion now that I understand you.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Why would it matter if it's open and shut? Because less time would be allocated toward figuring out how and why Jeffrey Dahmer was a monster.. just that he was one.

Correct me if I'm misunderstanding, but I take it you're arguing that the psychiatrists who all evaluated Jeffrey were wasting their time and the public's time? That since he was a "monster", there was no point to trying to understand? Okay...but then why are we sitting here discussing if he had autism or not?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Media attention surrounding his actions. Again, more about what he was - not why or how he came to be. More fascination behind his morbid act of devouring his victims and less about his inadequate social behavior or even his childhood activity of finding dead animals and melting the flesh away. Dahmer didn't grow up abusing animals, instead he was obsessed with their bone structure.

People started to become more interested in his mind after he'd passed away and more of his early years were discussed.

I guess I'll take your word on that.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
It was open and shut. He'd murdered those men, in a premeditated manner, over the course of several years. The insanity plea would have zero bearing to those who know how the judicial system works. He was going to be deemed "sane" and accountable for his actions based on that alone.

Doesn't matter, under American law he's entitled to that defense - as is everyone who goes before a judge and jury. You might not think that's fair, and that's fine, some states have gotten rid of the insanity defense altogether.

_________________
"My guns are the only things that haven't stabbed me in the back."
-Kip Kinkel
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
 
Did Jeffrey Dahmer have Asperger's Disorder?
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum :: Other Crimes :: All Other Crimes-
Jump to: