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| Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? | |
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+12slippy123 Lizpuff whyno Indigowendigo milennialrebelette sympathyforEandD Lunkhead McGrath Emanation of Darkness QuestionMark rebel2013 Screamingophelia NickValentine 16 posters | Author | Message |
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NickValentine
Posts : 16 Contribution Points : 58428 Forum Reputation : 0 Join date : 2018-10-11
| Subject: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:41 pm | |
| I know this is a long shot but im just curious to here your thoughts. As someone with Aspergers Syndrome, I've noticed several similarities between problems I've faced and accounts of Dylan from his friends and Family along with some of the home videos. One thing i notice with my self is the incredible shyness which comes from aspergers being a mainly social handicap I feel its best shown in the RNN interview where he isnt seeming to be with anyone he knows. He seems uncomfortable. This corolates with accounts of devon adams from the 2007 Documentary "The Columbine Killers" where she stated "He didn't kniw how to interact with people without someone he knew." This is much like me when i am put into a situation where i have to talk to people i dont know and that often leads to awkward conversations.
Another similatity would be the extreme intelligence he displayed at a young age. People with aspergers tend to be very bright. We all dylan was a part of CHIPS. Theres a few more things that i could think of but tell me what you guys think about this possibility.
Do you think its a possibility or just a coincidence? | |
| | | Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6449 Contribution Points : 198703 Forum Reputation : 1327 Join date : 2017-08-25 Age : 37
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:49 pm | |
| No.
Not being able to interact with someone without someone you already know around is just being very very shy. It's easier to have someone you're comfortable around when you're shy. It also helps when you have something in common with them and have a common thing to break the ice with.
I read a blog post about this and it's now defunct. I think Dylan was just shy. There's a big difference between being shy and having aspergers.
He was able to maintain eye contact, he had a big group of friends, he had a sense of humor, he wasn't fixated on certain things.
He didn't seem that awkward in the RNN interview he maintain eye contact and had a nice hand shake he just didn't like being in front of the camera
Plus Dylan's mom worked with kids with disabilities. I have to imagine if he had some sort of autism she would know and have him tested. _________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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| | | NickValentine
Posts : 16 Contribution Points : 58428 Forum Reputation : 0 Join date : 2018-10-11
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:51 pm | |
| I forgot that sue worked with kids with disabilities thanks for reminding me, It was just something i had wondered. | |
| | | Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6449 Contribution Points : 198703 Forum Reputation : 1327 Join date : 2017-08-25 Age : 37
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:52 pm | |
| You're welcome! Here is another thread that talks about it [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] _________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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| | | Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6449 Contribution Points : 198703 Forum Reputation : 1327 Join date : 2017-08-25 Age : 37
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:49 pm | |
| - EthanEmerson wrote:
Overreactions like the one Sue describes in her book where Dylan thought kids at another table were staring at him - to non-Aspies - appear to be paranoia or delusion. In reality, what was going on inside of Dylan is unknown.
You bring up excellent points. I always assumed it was because of the bullying and the fact that he was self conscious. I guess I sometimes think about myself and I have always been like that due to the bullying I endured. To this day random laughter directed at me or not can irk me. Back in the 90's I don't think Aspergers was as common. You were just shy or awkward and that is that. _________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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| | | rebel2013
Posts : 83 Contribution Points : 109060 Forum Reputation : 0 Join date : 2013-05-08
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:18 pm | |
| I have aspergers myself and I always thought it was a possibility based on interviews and on his body language. | |
| | | QuestionMark Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 4348 Contribution Points : 125702 Forum Reputation : 3191 Join date : 2017-09-04
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:24 pm | |
| As a fellow aspie, I personally never saw it, and I'm not sure if Dylan had it. I think there's just too many factors at work to accurately determine if he had autism of some kind. I won't discount the possibility entirely but I'm not sold on it. _________________ "My guns are the only things that haven't stabbed me in the back." -Kip Kinkel
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| | | Emanation of Darkness Banned
Posts : 104 Contribution Points : 58134 Forum Reputation : 50 Join date : 2018-10-04
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:06 am | |
| - EthanEmerson wrote:
- Overreactions like the one Sue describes in her book where Dylan thought kids at another table were staring at him - to non-Aspies - appear to be paranoia or delusion. In reality, what was going on inside of Dylan is unknown.
In my experience, I couldn't be around kids of any age even when I didn't know them because I was convinced they were always laughing at me. If I sat at a restaurant and a kid my age was there and looked over at me, I'd feel like they were staring me down and making fun of me. If I couldn't hear what they were saying, I was certain it was about me.
I'm not saying that's what Dylan experienced. We don't know. But it's possible, given his severe reactions, and that's something only a person with Asperger's can understand and spot. To others, it just appears like an overreaction of paranoia. He was in abusive environment for 10 years. Attributing malice to people's behavior for example laughter is also a part of trauma of bullying. | |
| | | Lunkhead McGrath
Posts : 490 Contribution Points : 81911 Forum Reputation : 325 Join date : 2016-11-03
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:44 am | |
| It's hard to say, but I've grown increasingly tired of autism/Asperger's being attributed to *everything* and *everyone* the slightest bit off; it's like the 21st century version of "the devil made me do it" or "PMS."
Not saying you're doing that, mind you. | |
| | | sympathyforEandD
Posts : 227 Contribution Points : 76519 Forum Reputation : 486 Join date : 2018-07-27
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:31 pm | |
| Not at all. In the boys' videos you can tell by their body language, eye contact, facial expressions and the ease with which they communicate that both him and Eric were "normies" as far as the autism spectrum is concerned. | |
| | | milennialrebelette
Posts : 248 Contribution Points : 64715 Forum Reputation : 725 Join date : 2018-10-28 Age : 33 Location : Littleton, CO
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:39 am | |
| As a social worker I agree 100% with [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]Dylan is not "beloved" to me and theres nothing wrong with someone having any form of ASD [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] No one has implied any of those things, I don't even know why you brought them up. | |
| | | Indigowendigo
Posts : 25 Contribution Points : 60474 Forum Reputation : 3 Join date : 2018-06-11
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:05 pm | |
| I have to say I agree with [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. I think that is a huge part of the reason why I feel so much empathy for Dylan. In so many ways, his experiences were mirror images of my own experiences growing up. I didn’t shoot up my school, but had I had my own “Eric”, who knows what may have happened. Dylan makes sense to me, he’s the only person in the entire Columbine story that I can relate to. My Asperger’s manifests in a very similar way to Dylan’s behavior. Brushing it off as “just shyness” is the same hurtful shit that’s been said about me my whole life. | |
| | | Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6449 Contribution Points : 198703 Forum Reputation : 1327 Join date : 2017-08-25 Age : 37
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:35 pm | |
| Truthfully we will never know, just as you said. I will repost the thread where I share a write up that argues against these points. This person thinks he has more signs of Avoidant Personality Disorder. Many of the things you mentioned are signs of depression too and anger issues. I had the same issues in HS and I am not on the spectrum. So if we are going to compare... then no Dylan didn't have aspergers. I was a shy and bullied kid, in the gifted program... I had a lot in common with Dylan too. I get equally as annoyed with labeling Eric as a psychopath too. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] _________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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| | | Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6449 Contribution Points : 198703 Forum Reputation : 1327 Join date : 2017-08-25 Age : 37
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:11 pm | |
| I would think since Sue worked with kids that had disabilities she would have had Dylan tested.
I am not convinced. However, unless we can go back in time and watch his day to day life and get him diagnosed by a professional we will never know just like we don't know if Eric was a pyschopath..
Again, a lot of things you mentioned are also signs of depression, anxiety etc.. just because you are "odd" or you may be shy doesn't meet you're autistic. It's a word I think a lot of people like to throw around now. _________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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| | | Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6449 Contribution Points : 198703 Forum Reputation : 1327 Join date : 2017-08-25 Age : 37
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:13 pm | |
| The write up does also talk about the reasons she believes he didn't have aspergers, which makes sense to me. I think she brings up good points. _________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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| | | sympathyforEandD
Posts : 227 Contribution Points : 76519 Forum Reputation : 486 Join date : 2018-07-27
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:06 pm | |
| It would take a LOT of convincing to make me think Dylan was an aspie. I have Asperger's myself and Dylan was definitely a normie. No aspie stare, no awkward bodylanguage, no difficulty communicating, no monologues... he was just quiet and withdrawn because of bullying.
Away from Columbine, he was fine. Look at Rampart Range. He's relaxed and having a good time shooting the shit with his friends.
That shitty Chad-worshipping school made him anxious and miserable. | |
| | | whyno
Posts : 130 Contribution Points : 73078 Forum Reputation : 50 Join date : 2017-04-01 Age : 29
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:01 pm | |
| One story I wanted to bring up is from Sue's book: She mentions a time when Dylan was young, and he and Brooks were playing and I think Dylan got mud on him? Or he tripped into mud? Either way, something seemingly "small" happened, and Brooks, Sue and Judy laughed. And Sue recalls that Dylan seemed to "overreact" and got very angry and upset, and was yelling at them to stop laughing at him. She recalled something to the effect that it surprised her how upset he got and that he couldn't seem to get over it, or see that they weren't trying to make fun of him.
Take that story how you want to, but I think maybe it could support the Asperger's theory?
I think the theory is interesting, as well as the one saying maybe he had a touch of narcissistic personality disorder. He seemed to have symptoms of a few possible diagnosis's.
I don't know if I believe either, but they're definitely a possibility.
But like you guys have mentioned, we'll never know about him OR Eric. | |
| | | QuestionMark Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 4348 Contribution Points : 125702 Forum Reputation : 3191 Join date : 2017-09-04
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:24 pm | |
| - EthanEmerson wrote:
- So far, I've only seen neurotypical people defensively and aggressively oppose the possibility. Which is the same thing they do to those of us on the spectrum for all of our lives, which makes it harder for us to function in the world because everyone wants to boil down neurologically-based behaviors to attitude problems and temper tantrums.
[…]
I remember the first day I refused to take off my blue tinted sunglasses in class and it started out being a light-blocking strategy outside, and then became an act of defiance because I hated my teachers and didn't like anyone telling me what to do when I felt I had a good reason for doing something, which is also part of the ASD package
Banging on his keyboard (audible from rooms away downstairs) and swearing at his computer when it was slow or crashed (oh he just was high strung and had a temper) most people don't destroy their prized possessions when they get frustrated, being easily frustrated is part of the ASD package and breaking your own stuff is, too. Temper tantrum, or meltdown? Everyone wants to believe this stuff is a temper tantrum, but spend a day in one of our bodies and you'll see how it's neurologically out of our control and it's not a learned behavior at all. It's not about gaining power or control. It's the release of an overload of input. And yes, you can go your whole life not knowing that's what's going on.
[…]
Tommie Nykanen, a teacher, said Dylan laughed at him "inappropriately" and defiantly - makes sense to me. Many ASD kids don't express themselves appropriately according to society's social rules. Many of us have absolutely no idea about social rules and when we learn of them we think they're stupid so we ignore them. We don't usually like to do anything unless it's explained to us and there's a good reason. Just telling us not to do something "because I said so" doesn't work. We need a logical explanation. So, we don't generally follow rules even when there are consequences attached to breaking those rules. Reading these hit close to home for me. A lot of these thought patterns you described are ones I've felt or experienced. - EthanEmerson wrote:
- Oh, and one last thing. Many of us aspies are said to be gifted and put into gifted programs only to realize we hate being in the program and we leave because it singles us out and we can't stand being noticed. Just like Dylan did. And the other thing... many of us have high IQs, but many of us aren't gifted in the sense that we have a 170 IQ... we are not savants, what we have are intense interests that we excel in early on in life because we are hard-wired to excel in those areas... which is mistaken for being all around gifted. Then when we can't perform as well in other areas people think we're just wasting our potential.
Sound familiar? Too familiar. _________________ "My guns are the only things that haven't stabbed me in the back." -Kip Kinkel
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| | | Lizpuff
Posts : 2677 Contribution Points : 101499 Forum Reputation : 1190 Join date : 2016-03-02 Age : 36
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:48 pm | |
| I won't comment on what I think as it doesn't really matter, but for me until the "aspergers movement" a lot of people went undiagnosed and it was brushed away as other things. Dylan falls into that category really so it is 100% if he did have aspergers or autism at all that he could just have flown under that radar _________________ Hold me now I need to feel complete Like I matter to the one I need
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| | | QuestionMark Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 4348 Contribution Points : 125702 Forum Reputation : 3191 Join date : 2017-09-04
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:52 pm | |
| - Screamingophelia wrote:
- Again, a lot of things you mentioned are also signs of depression, anxiety etc..
Well, depression and anxiety are not mutually exclusive from an autism diagnosis. _________________ "My guns are the only things that haven't stabbed me in the back." -Kip Kinkel
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| | | Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6449 Contribution Points : 198703 Forum Reputation : 1327 Join date : 2017-08-25 Age : 37
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:15 pm | |
| I have an earnest question.
Would it change the way you (general you) think of Dylan and the case if he did have aspergers? Is he less culpable? Less responsibile? _________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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| | | slippy123
Posts : 879 Contribution Points : 110738 Forum Reputation : 1235 Join date : 2015-08-25
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:28 pm | |
| Interesting thread with great points on both sides. I tend to think that Dylan was just a shy, overly self conscious teenager. This is a person that worried about looking "fat" when he was going into a school to kill people. Of course we will never know if he indeed did have Aspergers, so I won't rule out that it could of been a possibility, but I don't personally think he did. | |
| | | QuestionMark Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 4348 Contribution Points : 125702 Forum Reputation : 3191 Join date : 2017-09-04
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:20 pm | |
| - EthanEmerson wrote:
- QustionMark, did you get in trouble a lot in school for doing things your own way? Sorry I can't tag you I forgot how to tag
The short version is yes, and it wasn't just school that I was getting into trouble with. - The long version:
I had a lot of difficulties understanding how my fellow classmates acted, but rather than attempt to try and fit in, because I didn't know what that meant, I frequently acted bizarre and outlandish (like making animal sounds or strange noises) to make people laugh (I assumed people who were laughing at me were doing so in a friendly way). I subsequently got a reputation for being "the weird kid" and was made fun of for this. I largely stopped socializing with more than a handful of friends because of this (though maybe I just didn't like putting the effort into socialization to begin with). While I'm on the subject of friends, I remember one time in middle school where I either misinterpreted or outright didn't see some (in hindsight, blatant) social cues that my best friend didn't want to talk when I was bugging the shit out of him, and he ended up screaming at me because of it. In the second grade I floundered academically because I lacked interest in any of the subject material being taught, which caught me Hell from my parents and my teacher. At one point I was so frustrated with my education that I threatened a substitute teacher with decapitation, earning me the first of many times I'd be forced in front of a guidance councilor. When I first began to stim my parents were very frustrated about it, angrily telling me to stop, threatening to punish me for it, or outright making fun of me for it, which felt incredibly hurtful, because they never gave me a clear reason to stop beyond "it's annoying". Come to think of it, a lot of times my mother would tell me to behave, and I asked her why, she would say "because I said so", which I thought was such a dumb reason that it felt like she was being mean to me. A lot of times in middle school, my peers were very loud in the classroom, which I found rude, obnoxious, disrespectful, and hateful. I once told my Spanish teacher that I prayed my classmates would go to Hell for being so disruptive. In general I loathed school, learning, and academics because I felt uninterested in almost everything that was getting taught and hated how my parents pressured me to succeed academically (when I made high honor roll once, they were proud of me, but whenever that faltered they'd bring up that achievement and use it proverbially beat me over the head with it, demanding an explanation for why I couldn't maintain good grades). On occasion I have had meltdowns. Over failed tests/quizzes, over getting yelled at, over getting a new project, over someone saying or doing something I found upsetting, or sometimes nothing at all but the culmination of a lot of anger and frustration. In these meltdowns I'd hit myself, inanimate objects, cry, sometimes scream. These breakdowns were especially severe in college, where the environment felt like every horrible thing about public school multiplied by a thousand.
There's a lot to unpack and really this is only the tip of the iceberg. There's probably a thousand other things I neglected to mention here, either on purpose for brevity's sake or because I've forgotten it with time. Suffice it to say I've not had a lot of positive experiences in my life because of my condition. - Screamingophelia wrote:
- I have an earnest question.
Would it change the way you (general you) think of Dylan and the case if he did have aspergers? Is he less culpable? Less responsibile? It's hard to put into words. Disturbed, maybe, because it'd feel like this person was a lot like me. _________________ "My guns are the only things that haven't stabbed me in the back." -Kip Kinkel
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| | | Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6449 Contribution Points : 198703 Forum Reputation : 1327 Join date : 2017-08-25 Age : 37
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:33 pm | |
| - QuestionMark wrote:
- EthanEmerson wrote:
- QustionMark, did you get in trouble a lot in school for doing things your own way? Sorry I can't tag you I forgot how to tag
The short version is yes, and it wasn't just school that I was getting into trouble with.
- The long version:
I had a lot of difficulties understanding how my fellow classmates acted, but rather than attempt to try and fit in, because I didn't know what that meant, I frequently acted bizarre and outlandish (like making animal sounds or strange noises) to make people laugh (I assumed people who were laughing at me were doing so in a friendly way). I subsequently got a reputation for being "the weird kid" and was made fun of for this. I largely stopped socializing with more than a handful of friends because of this (though maybe I just didn't like putting the effort into socialization to begin with). While I'm on the subject of friends, I remember one time in middle school where I either misinterpreted or outright didn't see some (in hindsight, blatant) social cues that my best friend didn't want to talk when I was bugging the shit out of him, and he ended up screaming at me because of it. In the second grade I floundered academically because I lacked interest in any of the subject material being taught, which caught me Hell from my parents and my teacher. At one point I was so frustrated with my education that I threatened a substitute teacher with decapitation, earning me the first of many times I'd be forced in front of a guidance councilor. When I first began to stim my parents were very frustrated about it, angrily telling me to stop, threatening to punish me for it, or outright making fun of me for it, which felt incredibly hurtful, because they never gave me a clear reason to stop beyond "it's annoying". Come to think of it, a lot of times my mother would tell me to behave, and I asked her why, she would say "because I said so", which I thought was such a dumb reason that it felt like she was being mean to me. A lot of times in middle school, my peers were very loud in the classroom, which I found rude, obnoxious, disrespectful, and hateful. I once told my Spanish teacher that I prayed my classmates would go to Hell for being so disruptive. In general I loathed school, learning, and academics because I felt uninterested in almost everything that was getting taught and hated how my parents pressured me to succeed academically (when I made high honor roll once, they were proud of me, but whenever that faltered they'd bring up that achievement and use it proverbially beat me over the head with it, demanding an explanation for why I couldn't maintain good grades). On occasion I have had meltdowns. Over failed tests/quizzes, over getting yelled at, over getting a new project, over someone saying or doing something I found upsetting, or sometimes nothing at all but the culmination of a lot of anger and frustration. In these meltdowns I'd hit myself, inanimate objects, cry, sometimes scream. These breakdowns were especially severe in college, where the environment felt like every horrible thing about public school multiplied by a thousand.
There's a lot to unpack and really this is only the tip of the iceberg. There's probably a thousand other things I neglected to mention here, either on purpose for brevity's sake or because I've forgotten it with time. Suffice it to say I've not had a lot of positive experiences in my life because of my condition.
- Screamingophelia wrote:
- I have an earnest question.
Would it change the way you (general you) think of Dylan and the case if he did have aspergers? Is he less culpable? Less responsibile? It's hard to put into words. Disturbed, maybe, because it'd feel like this person was a lot like me. I’m coming from a place where I can relate to Dylan on many levels. We were the same age living thousands of miles a part and having almost the same feelings that he wrote about . We were raised very similarly etc. we took very different paths of course but Many things that Sue talks about and other people talk about I’ve done the same thing. Howver, I do not have aspergers . I would be considered atypical I guess . So I guess I’m trying to figure out how to wrap my head around it. _________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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| | | bradt93
Posts : 721 Contribution Points : 96356 Forum Reputation : 255 Join date : 2016-12-21 Location : United States
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:03 am | |
| Also it seems like more people with aspergers have more trouble finding a romantic partner, because of the stigma associated with it. I have aspergers and while I'm not social generally, I have a hard time talking to girls. I just don't approach them. Pretty sad isn't it? _________________ bt
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| | | Pixie13
Posts : 176 Contribution Points : 62051 Forum Reputation : 270 Join date : 2018-09-08
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:42 am | |
| It's certainly an interesting theory. Unproven and unprovable, but then many aspects of the case are like this. I don't think it should be discounted, nor does it absolve Dylan of any guilt, but it certainly could fit with certain aspects of Dylan's life.
One slightly question that bugs me, how "gifted" was Dylan? He only got onto CHIPS because Tom Klebold argued his case (according to Brooks Brown, was this verified by Sue?) so my guess was even if he scored highly enough, he was probably borderline. I often wonder if he felt slightly out his depth with CHIPS, and despite his parents telling him he was super-clever, he felt like he didn't belong which was the beginning of his disconnect and awkwardness. | |
| | | Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6449 Contribution Points : 198703 Forum Reputation : 1327 Join date : 2017-08-25 Age : 37
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:40 am | |
| - Pixie13 wrote:
- It's certainly an interesting theory. Unproven and unprovable, but then many aspects of the case are like this. I don't think it should be discounted, nor does it absolve Dylan of any guilt, but it certainly could fit with certain aspects of Dylan's life.
One slightly question that bugs me, how "gifted" was Dylan? He only got onto CHIPS because Tom Klebold argued his case (according to Brooks Brown, was this verified by Sue?) so my guess was even if he scored highly enough, he was probably borderline. I often wonder if he felt slightly out his depth with CHIPS, and despite his parents telling him he was super-clever, he felt like he didn't belong which was the beginning of his disconnect and awkwardness. I don’t believe Sue mentioned that. Dylan was asked if he wanted to take HS math when he was still in middle school . So he had to have been somewhat bright. I always take Brooks with a grain of salt.. especially with him talking about Dylan and his parents... Though many classmates even in HS said Dylan was bright and often read ahead or didn’t really have to study. _________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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| | | Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6449 Contribution Points : 198703 Forum Reputation : 1327 Join date : 2017-08-25 Age : 37
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:43 am | |
| This is getting into super murky territory for me. If this keeps up it’s going to sound like Dylan didn’t understand what he was getting himself into therefore he wasn’t totally culpable... which, Remember I do have empathy for both of them, is completely false. Dylan knew and gladly participated _________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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| | | QuestionMark Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 4348 Contribution Points : 125702 Forum Reputation : 3191 Join date : 2017-09-04
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:06 pm | |
| - Screamingophelia wrote:
- This is getting into super murky territory for me. If this keeps up it’s going to sound like Dylan didn’t understand what he was getting himself into therefore he wasn’t totally culpable...
I'm honestly not sure where you're getting this impression. _________________ "My guns are the only things that haven't stabbed me in the back." -Kip Kinkel
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| | | Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
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| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:12 pm | |
| Mostly the mention of the possibility of various disorders and he couldn’t keep up etc.. but there’s no proof of any of it. _________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
Last edited by Screamingophelia on Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:31 pm; edited 1 time in total | |
| | | Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
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| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:26 pm | |
| - QuestionMark wrote:
- Screamingophelia wrote:
- This is getting into super murky territory for me. If this keeps up it’s going to sound like Dylan didn’t understand what he was getting himself into therefore he wasn’t totally culpable...
I'm honestly not sure where you're getting this impression. I could be reading into things incorrectly too. _________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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| | | Lizpuff
Posts : 2677 Contribution Points : 101499 Forum Reputation : 1190 Join date : 2016-03-02 Age : 36
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:46 am | |
| - EthanEmerson wrote:
It's not about less responsibility, it's about looking at why he was more prone to the effects of slight criticism to the point of wanting to die, and choosing a murder mission as his way out. Most people don't do that. You have to be extremely hypersensitive to respond the way he did, especially when his main goal was to end his own life.
I can get behind this. People on the boards always ask why others like Chris Morris, Zach or Nate did not commit the same massacre if they were bullied or picked on the same as Eric or Dylan and this is a good hypothesis as to why. Because most people at the end of the day can brush off the bullying to some extent. Dylan was very very sensitive even as a small child. Always afraid to embarrass himself and lashing out with anger if he thought others were laughing at him. Good way of putting it and I appreciate your insight _________________ Hold me now I need to feel complete Like I matter to the one I need
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| | | Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
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| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:55 am | |
| It’s being stated as fact here though that he had it and also wasn’t really as smart as he thought etc.
It’s Something that is thrown around too lightly for my taste
I’m behind Lizpuff though and your last post Ethan! Zach and Chris showed anger and aggression too..
Look at King Bully himself, Rocky...he didn’t commit something like this, so what was different with Eric and Dylan? _________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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| | | Lizpuff
Posts : 2677 Contribution Points : 101499 Forum Reputation : 1190 Join date : 2016-03-02 Age : 36
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:52 am | |
| [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] when you first invited this idea I didn't think much of it but your last few posts really got me thinking For example. When I used to think about Dylan in diversion I would get sort of angry with him. Thinking man he really wasted his opportunity there. He blew off the therapy, anger classes and the community service. I wondered if he truly didn't care or if he was just being lazy. But now I am wondering if it was more than that. If the therapy truly was not made for someone that is not NT so he couldn't get anything out of it. And you specifically mention anger management classes and now it is making more and more sense to me. I would agree with the statement that you make about other kids related to Dylan. I have seen many parents online making comparisons to Dylan and they think their kids are doomed to follow his footsteps I hope people can come to this page and read the information and that this kind of thing is spread further than this forum bc I truly think it is important to consider. _________________ Hold me now I need to feel complete Like I matter to the one I need
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| | | Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
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| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:57 am | |
| - Lizpuff wrote:
- [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] when you first invited this idea I didn't think much of it but your last few posts really got me thinking
For example. When I used to think about Dylan in diversion I would get sort of angry with him. Thinking man he really wasted his opportunity there. He blew off the therapy, anger classes and the community service. I wondered if he truly didn't care or if he was just being lazy. But now I am wondering if it was more than that. If the therapy truly was not made for someone that is not NT so he couldn't get anything out of it. And you specifically mention anger management classes and now it is making more and more sense to me.
I would agree with the statement that you make about other kids related to Dylan. I have seen many parents online making comparisons to Dylan and they think their kids are doomed to follow his footsteps I hope people can come to this page and read the information and that this kind of thing is spread further than this forum bc I truly think it is important to consider. When you mention diversion, you make me think of something very telling about him. What always strikes me is the essay he wrote about the one-day class about Ethics I think.... He was very honest about his feelings towards the class and how he didn’t get anything out of it. I think you needed to meet him at his level and you really had to be at his level for him to open up to you. Because if someone really doesn’t feel like anything is going to help them you can’t just use regular methods. You could say “oh why not go to group therapy so you don’t feel alone” but if you feel so different from everyone else he’s not going to see his peers he’s going to see people who are the zombies that he hates. Really towards the end the only person he thought was at his level was Eric. And Eric wasn’t going to be any help to him because he had his own damn problems. _________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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| | | Tommy QTR
Posts : 2443 Contribution Points : 97292 Forum Reputation : 600 Join date : 2017-12-28 Age : 22 Location : UK
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:57 pm | |
| I think an important question is what Eric would think. He hated special needed people so I wonder if Dylan had been diagnosed with Asperger's, would Eric still have been friends with him and would have still committed the massacre with him. _________________ "Life's short but I wanna die."
-Lil Peep
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| | | Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
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| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:32 pm | |
| I don’t think he bullied because he was trying to cover up his insecurities about possible special needs of his own
I think When you’re a bully and you find someone you perceive as weaker it makes you feel better. Plus honestly Adam and his friends could have been jerks to them. Just because you have special needs does not mean you’re the sweetest person on earth.
I can get behind many theories here but I don’t believe Dylan was special needs or handicapped
I think it was a depressed angry person Who may have had other mitigating factors that we don’t know
My big question is why in earth would he tested for anything if Sue worked with special needs kids? That makes me believe that there was nothing that raised red flags. _________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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| | | Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
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| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:58 pm | |
| - Tommy QTR wrote:
- I think an important question is what Eric would think. He hated special needed people so I wonder if Dylan had been diagnosed with Asperger's, would Eric still have been friends with him and would have still committed the massacre with him.
I think they knew each other for so long that Eric accepted Dylan and vice versa. Also towards the end they were so bonded in this “mission” that even if Dylan got tested for something Eric wouldn’t care as long as they stayed on the path. I really wish we could hear more about their day to day dynamic They did seem to be genuine friends. There’s a part in hitmen for hire right before the intimidation scenes where they exchange an amused look and kind of lean in, it’s short but it’s a little moment of friendship that seems nice. _________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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| | | Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
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| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:05 pm | |
| - EthanEmerson wrote:
- I do need to point out something majorly important here. There is so much stigma attached to the word "disability" and "special needs" and "handicap" and it's unfortunate.
Someone with ADD and ADHD can be considered "special needs" simply because they don't learn well in the same kind of environment as everyone else. Maybe they need to sit in a bean bag chair to learn. Maybe they need more frequent breaks, or they need to be taught one-to-one rather than in a group. I am not saying "Dylan was special needs" - I am saying do not confuse the reality of special needs with the stigma that makes you think of a retarded person (because let's call a spade a spade - that's probably why you don't like the idea that Dylan had special needs - you think of a classical person with mental retardation or developmental delay, which is not a PC term these days and I probably shouldn't even use it but I am because it's to make a point).
But let me say that ASD is also a developmental disorder, and people with Asperger's have a delayed acquisition of social skills. That is a developmental disorder. They are delayed in learning how to problem-solve in social situations, a delay in learning to compromise, and have a terrible difficulty seeing life from another person's perspective. These are developmental delays.
Nobody ever said Dylan was handicapped. The fact that you bring that up tells me you're really just unaware of what any of this is all about... you're stuck in the stigma and your preconceptions so you can't really get past that.
The stigma needs to be dissolved. Educate yourself, please. I don't mean that as an insult, it's just that you're stuck in stereotypes and stigma that make it impossible for you to understand ASD. I know a lot more than you think. It’s a very personal thing to me and I understand the differences. I don’t really want to get into a lot of the personal stuff. I know I’m usually pretty open here but this is a really sore subject for me. Which is probably why I get so annoyed and reactive. Coming from a really rough place. I was raised in a certain way and I have dealt with the stigma . My aunt used to tweet about her niece with special needs who had aspergers and that was me and yet I don’t have it. My mother worked with special needs kids she would’ve known to test me. I am partially deaf in one ear and I had anger and depression issues since I was little. . And yet people want to put that label on me. So no I don’t want to diagnose somebody who is dead and can’t speak for himself now. While what he did was despicable and Horrible we shouldn’t throw around these words about him. Plus I know you didn’t call him special needs somebody else did. Which ticks me off I have my MBA, I live on my own, I am just a shy awkward person. Yet I’ve had people come up to me and start telling me things about myself that are not true. Because I’m shy because I was bullied. Because I don’t look like exactly like everyone else and because I can’t hear really well. So people just assume things about me and that is why I am coming from a really sore place. So don’t tell me what I don’t know and what I do know Going to bow out of this conversation. _________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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| | | Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
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| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:39 pm | |
| Look at your own words. You’re the one acting like he definitely had it.
I also never said to you that You were the one who said he was special needs or disabled. Someone else said that. I didn’t put that on you.
I’m not arguing with you about this anymore. Stop telling me whar I know and don’t know. I cannot have this discussion anymore. We’re pretty much going to be going back-and-forth that the same thing it’s like talking to a wall. At the end of the day he’s dead and he did bad things. So regardless of whatever circumstances there were he still did it and Everything else is speculation. Including any mental health issues with either of them. Any kind of issues they had socially. We don’t know because they took that from everyone after they killed themselves so we can never know.
I think this is going to turn into an argument and not a discussion and I don’t want that. I don’t want things to get heated. That’s not what it’s about. We all have to act civil to one another even when we disagree. And I’m not going to be yelled at by anybody and I’m not going rub be told things that I know and I don’t know. Because you don’t know me , you’re making a huge assumption about me and it’s really rude _________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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| | | slippy123
Posts : 879 Contribution Points : 110738 Forum Reputation : 1235 Join date : 2015-08-25
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:07 pm | |
| - EthanEmerson wrote:
- Would it change the way you (general you) think of Dylan and the case if he did have aspergers? Is he less culpable? Less responsibile?
Nope. It's not about a disorder making him less responsible, it's about a real possibility that he was neurologically wired to be hypersensitive and not able to read people, thereby amplifying his experiences of stress and adrenaline in a way that neurotypical people cannot even imagine) and be prone to angry outbursts that he wasn't learning how to control.
It's not about less responsibility, it's about looking at why he was more prone to the effects of slight criticism to the point of wanting to die, and choosing a murder mission as his way out. Most people don't do that. You have to be extremely hypersensitive to respond the way he did, especially when his main goal was to end his own life.
Despite the fact that people want to call certain diagnoses an excuse or justification, it's not about that, it's a reason. An actual reason. For many people, it's an actual reason for their way of being. It has nothing to do with their responsibility for what they do. It's just that for people who have these types of neurological conditions, their response to stressors is often extreme and unfounded due to their actual neurological wiring.
There's always something else going on for people who choose to kill rather than just end their own life. Speaking from experience, having been through the system for planning something similar long before Columbine, as a kid, I can tell you that my neurological issues made me more prone to anger and resent and the inability to control my impulses and I was ready to do it. Today, you couldn't get a reaction out of me if you tried because I've had enough experience in life to understand that my interpretations aren't accurate, I don't make assumptions anymore, I don't read into situations, and I am not quick to anger, if at all, ever.
And when someone has these sensitivities and are prone to extreme reactions based on their misinterpretations of what others say and do, recognizing it is important because people can learn how to control their impulses (without medication) and that's the most important reason to look at this seriously.
Responsibility and a person's condition are two different conversations.
On a side note, I don't remember who commented on how Dylan was thinking about how fat he looked before the massacre, but that was one of Cullen's invented dialogues to fill in the blanks when discussing the basement tapes - that didn't actually happen on the tapes. Just like he made up Dylan obsessing over his big nose in the same or nearby scene. Just have to point that out. That is exactly why I don't like Cullen's book. His fictional portrayal has gotten into people's minds and they are now believing Dylan actually contemplated how fat his coat made him look. Which then makes people wonder why he was thinking about something so trivial, and then more opinions are formed, all based on invented dialogue. Fictional scenes are being interpreted and stored as fact in people's memories...
How do you know what and wasn't said on tapes that you never saw? The "looking fat" dialogue is in every basement tape transcript that I've ever read, including transcripts from direct sources who saw the tapes. - EthanEmerson wrote:
- Good question.
I know people who saw the basement tapes said that Eric seemed shocked when Dylan said he was Jewish, and Dylan got really reserved and said something like "just a quarter" or something but I'm not convinced that was authentic... I mean, how could anyone not know Dylan was Jewish?
Edit: I saw you make the claim that you know people who saw the tapes, but they were basically only shown to the victim's family's, the Browns, and a select few news reporters. So I have to ask, who are these people that you know that supposedly saw the tapes, and are you claiming that all those sources that wrote about Dylan making the "looking fat" comment are lying? | |
| | | slippy123
Posts : 879 Contribution Points : 110738 Forum Reputation : 1235 Join date : 2015-08-25
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:35 pm | |
| - EthanEmerson wrote:
- [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I don't remember reading about anyone reporting on Dylan talking about being fat in any of the sources of the basement tapes written by people who have seen the tapes. If that is what they reported hearing Dylan say, and I just don't recall that instance, then of course it's valid.
I'm not saying at all that I know what is and is not on the tapes. But here's my logic.
When a person who never saw the tapes makes claims about dialogue that happened on the tapes, that wasn't reported by people who actually saw the tapes, it has no credibility.
I never claimed to know people who saw the tapes. That is probably a misinterpretation of something I said taken out of context. Or, if I said something like, "I know the people who saw the tapes" then I was referring to the fact that I have a list of people who legitimately saw the tapes, as in a list that came from news sources, and not that I *personally* know those people. General knowledge of who saw the tapes is available to everyone.
Where are you getting the impression that I said I know people who saw the tapes? Nobody I know personally ever saw the tapes... Well you stated that Cullen made it up, and it never was said in the tapes, like it was fact. Followed by saying "I know people that saw the tapes". So I wasn't 100% sure if you were referring to outsiders or you personally know someone who told you that. I mean we have active members here who were in the library during the shooting, so it wouldn't be unusual that someone here knows people who've seen the BT's As far as the transcripts go, I've yet to see any that don't include that dialogue. Do you happen to remember where to find the transcripts you saw? If I haven't seen it, that means it's new to me, and anything new Columbine is something I'd like to check out for sure. | |
| | | slippy123
Posts : 879 Contribution Points : 110738 Forum Reputation : 1235 Join date : 2015-08-25
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:07 pm | |
| - EthanEmerson wrote:
- Well, I was basing that statement of fact on the knowledge that nobody who saw the tapes mentioned Dylan talking about being fat. If he did, and that's in their reports, then I stand corrected.
Ah that makes sense as to why you thought I was saying something different... the interpretation of my sentence isn't correct.
"I know people who saw the basement tapes said that Eric seemed shocked when Dylan said he was Jewish"
I try not to use the word "that" too often, so the sentence would be more understandable as "I know that people who saw the basement tapes said..."
If this read, "I know people who saw the basement tapes AND said" or WHO said or THAT said..." then it would be referring to me knowing people who saw the tapes, but the sentence is simply intended to state that I know/I understand that people who saw the basement tapes said Eric seemed shocked...
Well, there are zero actual transcripts available for the basement tapes. There are multiple sources of notes and quotes that were put together and some people compiled them and called them transcripts, all of which you have I'm sure. I just don't remember the mention of Dylan talking about being fat. It's probably in there but never stood out to me so I never put it in my memory! A transcript is a version of material originally presented in another medium, so technically they are. Incomplete transcripts if you want to be technical. Either way, I remember one of the bigger news station articles mentioning Dylan's fat comment way back, and I just always remembered it since it stuck out to me. I only brought it up because I was the one who you were referring to in your comment. | |
| | | QuestionMark Top 10 Contributor
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| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:51 pm | |
| - Tommy QTR wrote:
- I think an important question is what Eric would think. He hated special needed people so I wonder if Dylan had been diagnosed with Asperger's, would Eric still have been friends with him and would have still committed the massacre with him.
I think Eric would've been greatly surprised. Now, that being said, I don't think he would abandon Dylan over it. Eric was petty, but not to that extant. - EthanEmerson wrote:
- I know people who saw the basement tapes said that Eric seemed shocked when Dylan said he was Jewish, and Dylan got really reserved and said something like "just a quarter" or something but I'm not convinced that was authentic... I mean, how could anyone not know Dylan was Jewish?
This particular exchange gets discussed here a lot, and since we lack an actual video to corroborate the story, I really have to wonder if certain individuals overstated or understated some of the reactions on display. Thus, since we lack the actual evidence to ask definitively, I have to wonder if Eric wasn't so much "surprised" as he was embarrassed or confused, since he'd made many Nazi jokes, did Nazi salutes to shock people, and drew tons of swastikas on his thing and in his notebooks, and Dylan never made comment over any of these. _________________ "My guns are the only things that haven't stabbed me in the back." -Kip Kinkel
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| | | Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6449 Contribution Points : 198703 Forum Reputation : 1327 Join date : 2017-08-25 Age : 37
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:36 pm | |
| - QuestionMark wrote:
- Tommy QTR wrote:
- I think an important question is what Eric would think. He hated special needed people so I wonder if Dylan had been diagnosed with Asperger's, would Eric still have been friends with him and would have still committed the massacre with him.
I think Eric would've been greatly surprised. Now, that being said, I don't think he would abandon Dylan over it. Eric was petty, but not to that extant.
- EthanEmerson wrote:
- I know people who saw the basement tapes said that Eric seemed shocked when Dylan said he was Jewish, and Dylan got really reserved and said something like "just a quarter" or something but I'm not convinced that was authentic... I mean, how could anyone not know Dylan was Jewish?
This particular exchange gets discussed here a lot, and since we lack an actual video to corroborate the story, I really have to wonder if certain individuals overstated or understated some of the reactions on display.
Thus, since we lack the actual evidence to ask definitively, I have to wonder if Eric wasn't so much "surprised" as he was embarrassed or confused, since he'd made many Nazi jokes, did Nazi salutes to shock people, and drew tons of swastikas on his thing and in his notebooks, and Dylan never made comment over any of these.
That is an excellent point. Something that never crossed my mind until now. I’m just wondering how long it was in between the klebolds celebrating any kind of Jewish holiday. Because Eric knew Dylan since they were in seventh grade. So Sue never celebrated anything from 7 to 12 grade? It does seem odd that he wouldn’t know. _________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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| | | Hectic
Posts : 45 Contribution Points : 84405 Forum Reputation : 25 Join date : 2015-09-06
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:20 am | |
| There are plenty of examples of him having traits across various books/videos but honestly you could also put many of these traits down to being a teenager full stop. Unless you actually knew the guy or spoke to someone who knew him extensively about his persona, who the hell knows. Dillon's been diagnosed with I'd say 100's of disorders over the past 20 years by armchair psychologists. | |
| | | Lizpuff
Posts : 2677 Contribution Points : 101499 Forum Reputation : 1190 Join date : 2016-03-02 Age : 36
| Subject: Re: Do you think Dylan could have had aspergers? Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:53 am | |
| - Screamingophelia wrote:
- QuestionMark wrote:
- Tommy QTR wrote:
- I think an important question is what Eric would think. He hated special needed people so I wonder if Dylan had been diagnosed with Asperger's, would Eric still have been friends with him and would have still committed the massacre with him.
I think Eric would've been greatly surprised. Now, that being said, I don't think he would abandon Dylan over it. Eric was petty, but not to that extant.
- EthanEmerson wrote:
- I know people who saw the basement tapes said that Eric seemed shocked when Dylan said he was Jewish, and Dylan got really reserved and said something like "just a quarter" or something but I'm not convinced that was authentic... I mean, how could anyone not know Dylan was Jewish?
This particular exchange gets discussed here a lot, and since we lack an actual video to corroborate the story, I really have to wonder if certain individuals overstated or understated some of the reactions on display.
Thus, since we lack the actual evidence to ask definitively, I have to wonder if Eric wasn't so much "surprised" as he was embarrassed or confused, since he'd made many Nazi jokes, did Nazi salutes to shock people, and drew tons of swastikas on his thing and in his notebooks, and Dylan never made comment over any of these.
That is an excellent point. Something that never crossed my mind until now. I’m just wondering how long it was in between the klebolds celebrating any kind of Jewish holiday. Because Eric knew Dylan since they were in seventh grade. So Sue never celebrated anything from 7 to 12 grade? It does seem odd that he wouldn’t know. Not touching the rest but Sue has said that although they were "religious" growing up (Meaning Dylan and Byron here) they did not go to a church or celebrate any religious holidays until the later 90s. So possible that that year was the first year they really celebrated those Jewish holidays _________________ Hold me now I need to feel complete Like I matter to the one I need
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