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 Born or became?

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Akknowslife

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PostSubject: Born or became?   Born or became? Icon_minitimeSun Jun 28, 2020 7:10 pm

Do any of you guys think that they were mentally ill from the start due to genetics, or later in life they started to have mental health issues due bullying and rejection?
Or both?
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PostSubject: Re: Born or became?   Born or became? Icon_minitimeSun Jun 28, 2020 7:26 pm

I think a bit of both. 

I'm not a professional but I have a friend who has depression, but he has a huge support system so he has people who rally for him and understand what he is going through, that person will have perhaps a better chance in not succumbing to despair. Where as someone who doesn't have anyone might not have as easy of a time.

You can work with and overcome a lot of issues. Someone with Borderline Personality may become someone who is deemed dangerous and others can work on themselves and rise above their diagnosis.

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PostSubject: Re: Born or became?   Born or became? Icon_minitimeSun Jun 28, 2020 8:39 pm

Definitely "became", I believe that each of us has certain predispositions, but that in the end we are mostly shaped by our experiences, upbringing, knowledge, etc.
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PostSubject: Re: Born or became?   Born or became? Icon_minitimeSun Jun 28, 2020 9:09 pm

It's iffy for me. Countless people before and after E&D have endured and do endure worse hardships, and did not resort to such an act. I don't think it's as simple as saying it's their surroundings that made them what they died as.

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PostSubject: Re: Born or became?   Born or became? Icon_minitimeSun Jun 28, 2020 9:57 pm

I believe that people are a product of their environment. I think some people have a genetic predisposition to certain mental illnesses, but ultimately whether these form or not is due to that person's environment. However, not everyone with a certain mental illness will go on to kill or injure another being. I think that can, also, be a factor of environment. Similar to what screaming has said, I think the better support system someone has and the more access to therapy/medication/etc. a person has can determine how they handle their own mental illness.
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PostSubject: Re: Born or became?   Born or became? Icon_minitimeMon Jun 29, 2020 12:37 am

The thing is that even in very hellish circumstances murder (and especially mass murder) appears to be a very, very aberrant response to stressors for human beings. In the days where people hunted their meals with sharp sticks and died from a laundry list of diseases because proper sanitation wasn't even a concept, the actual violent death rate (including inter-tribal warfare) only ever reached 10%. So in other words, even in one of the worst environments possible for human beings to live and socialize in, only 10-5% of human beings are even capable of bringing themselves to kill. So while I certainly think their environment shaped who they were and their respective stressors made it easier for them to consider the act, to me it feels like they were already primed, so to speak.

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PostSubject: Re: Born or became?   Born or became? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 30, 2020 9:14 pm

Definetley became. When you read how toxic that school environment was it's no wonder that someone would snap. The administration were even bigger peices of shit for letting things slide for preferred groups.

I think they started getting mentally ill AFTER the bullying and whatnot. That makes much more sense to me.

Eric was a normal kid when he was in Michigan. What changed so much when he moved to Colorado? I dont think he suddenly got mentally ill on the way there.
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PostSubject: Re: Born or became?   Born or became? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 30, 2020 10:33 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Eric was a normal kid when he was in Michigan. What changed so much when he moved to Colorado? I dont think he suddenly got mentally ill on the way there.

Mental illness usually only emerges in adolescence and adulthood. To use one example, most schizophrenics do not develop symptoms until they're a full grown adult. Do not assume people with mental illnesses all act the same way; each case is unique.

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PostSubject: Re: Born or became?   Born or became? Icon_minitimeWed Jul 01, 2020 11:57 pm

On the basement tapes he seemed pretty pissed when he said he was the new guy all the time and had to start from scratched. He transferred between 8 different schools. That's a lot. He didnt want to leave Michigan and I think Colorado just pissed him off.
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PostSubject: Re: Born or became?   Born or became? Icon_minitimeThu Jul 02, 2020 12:47 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
On the basement tapes he seemed pretty pissed when he said he was the new guy all the time and had to start from scratched. He transferred between 8 different schools. That's a lot. He didnt want to leave Michigan and I think Colorado just pissed him off.

That does not preclude him having an underlying mental condition. In fact the idea of him killing solely thanks to the frequent moves and bullying he endured is far more fantastical than those things contributing to a pre-existing mental disorder. I reiterate that most mental illnesses do not develop until adolescence or adulthood.

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PostSubject: Re: Born or became?   Born or became? Icon_minitimeThu Jul 02, 2020 6:20 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Eric was a normal kid when he was in Michigan. What changed so much when he moved to Colorado? I dont think he suddenly got mentally ill on the way there.

Mental illness usually only emerges in adolescence and adulthood. To use one example, most schizophrenics do not develop symptoms until they're a full grown adult. Do not assume people with mental illnesses all act the same way; each case is unique.

I think that Eric, just needed a "trigger" so that his mental illness will appear or get "stronger". And the bullying were a really hard trigger, but I think that wasn't just the bullying too. It is a little bit of both I think, because I know people that were really happy as kids, did like a lot of activites and things, but then got mental ill real hard when getting adult. But we just can speculate on that.

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PostSubject: Re: Born or became?   Born or became? Icon_minitimeThu Jul 02, 2020 10:56 am

Do they still make the show ‘Born To Kill?’?

That was always quite interesting but I think it only ever focussed on serial killers as opposed to spree killers.

I think it’s a British programme so some of you guys might not have seen it. They are on YouTube though if anyone’s interested.
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PostSubject: Re: Born or became?   Born or became? Icon_minitimeThu Jul 02, 2020 12:32 pm

Wow, it's been almost 2 years since I've been on here. Hey ya'll.

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PostSubject: Re: Born or became?   Born or became? Icon_minitimeThu Jul 02, 2020 12:34 pm

And to answer your question I'd say both. The massacre was a result of their environment (high school) and what they went through on top of their insecurities was added fuel to the already breeding fire.

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PostSubject: Re: Born or became?   Born or became? Icon_minitimeThu Jul 02, 2020 1:04 pm

OH wow! Hello shades.

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PostSubject: Re: Born or became?   Born or became? Icon_minitimeThu Jul 02, 2020 4:05 pm

Excellent question.
I believe it is a bit of both. I think certain people are born with a gene that sometimes is active from day one whereas in others who have it they will find it remains dormant, sometimes forever.
However at certain times this gene can become active. Sometimes it kicks in when hormones change in puberty, sometimes it may be sparked by environmental situations. I believe the level of severity can also be affected by the world around that person or what they are like as people themselves.
Take Dylan. There is a mention of history of fragile mental health in his family as far as his mother goes, that she was always worrying and anxious in her younger years although not to the same extent Dylan was. I believe Dylan's depression was dormant and then became active in his teenage years. However it was made worse by his traits- shy, sensitive, stubborn and private. These issues combined meant he degenerated into a homicidal and suicidal state all whilst refraining from showing it. Of the two, I think Dylan would have been the harder one to treat medically because it seems so much of his depression came from chemical imbalance in his brain...he could have had everything in the world and he'd still have topped himself.
Eric I think still had a predisposition to the way he became but I believe his were activated by environmental triggers. It's been stated that he was a normal and happy kid when he lived in Michigan and that he showed no signs of rage or sadness. I think each move wore him down a little more and by the time they moved to Colorado he was on a downward slope depression wise. Eventually his anger built and with no help being given to him he gave in to it and let himself go. I think he wanted help but couldn't speak out to his parents due to their military way of life. He didn't really have any true friends around him to confide in, and the medication he was prescribed clearly wasn't working. I think he dropped intentional hints in the hope someone would notice and intervene but that never happened.
Eric had no stability in his life. Constant changing of houses, states, schools, people you name it. He had nothing to focus on until NBK and he grabbed onto it like a drowning man does to a raft.
Throw all these ingredients into the pot, both hereditary and environmental and they make gunpowder. Mix them with Eric and Dylan together and the fuse is lit with the inevitability of the biggest explosion of dynamite you can imagine.

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PostSubject: Re: Born or became?   Born or became? Icon_minitimeThu Jul 02, 2020 4:17 pm

I don't believe that mental illness, outside a select few, can appear from birth.
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PostSubject: Re: Born or became?   Born or became? Icon_minitimeThu Jul 02, 2020 9:46 pm

I believe they became killers, they weren't evil. They did what they did out of pain and desperation. They thought the world had wronged them and that their rampage was the only way out of their suffering. I feel bad for them. They were not cold hearted. They were suicidal and wanted to take other people out with them. They wanted people to die with them, they wanted to share their pain with people. Simple logic that most people can't understand.

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PostSubject: Re: Born or became?   Born or became? Icon_minitimeThu Jul 02, 2020 9:59 pm

Became for sure

Dylan; In Sue's book she said he was far above his age range in reading comprehension, mathematics, etc, and was doing advanced origami by the time he was 5. 12 years in the public schooling system gave her a monster in return.

Eric; he moved 5 times by the time he was 12 years old. He had attended 7 different schools by the time he was in 7th grade. Life handed him a nasty set of circumstances that he didn't know how to deal with.

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PostSubject: Re: Born or became?   Born or became? Icon_minitimeFri Jul 03, 2020 6:26 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Became for sure

Dylan; In Sue's book she said he was far above his age range in reading comprehension, mathematics, etc, and was doing advanced origami by the time he was 5.  12 years in the public schooling system gave her a monster in return.

Eric; he moved 5 times by the time he was 12 years old.  He had attended 7 different schools by the time he was in 7th grade.  Life handed him a nasty set of circumstances that he didn't know how to deal with.

Okay, I’m also a team "became", but these are still not the exact reasons to commit mass murder.

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