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 I'm older than Dylan ever was.

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mrbaby56

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PostSubject: I'm older than Dylan ever was.   I'm older than Dylan ever was. Icon_minitimeWed Mar 10, 2021 3:40 am

Today I'm 18 years old. For my entire time researching Columbine, I've always seen Eric and Dylan as these big brute monsters who are essentially like bullies with guns. Now that i'm actually older than Dylan I feel like that view of them has kind of shattered. I'm still a kid. Just because I can vote and drink (in my country) doesn't mean I'm actually grown up. And that makes me feel like Dylan and Eric were still kids when they died.

Do you agree? Have you had any wierd age-related realizations about mass shootings?
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nicomatsu

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PostSubject: Re: I'm older than Dylan ever was.   I'm older than Dylan ever was. Icon_minitimeWed Mar 10, 2021 5:04 am

i remember thinking about that late last year. i realized that by october, i was gonna be older than dylan ever was and it felt weird to me. i got into columbine when i was 15 so realizing that i was actually gonna be older than them was weird. i just turned 18 in february, and now that im thinking about it, im also older than eric ever was too. he died 11 days after his 18th birthday and its been 15 since mine. 3 years ago i would have never pictured it. as i get older, it will be strange looking down on them in age in a way.
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PostSubject: Re: I'm older than Dylan ever was.   I'm older than Dylan ever was. Icon_minitimeWed Mar 10, 2021 5:25 am

mrbaby56 wrote:
Today I'm 18 years old. For my entire time researching Columbine, I've always seen Eric and Dylan as these big brute monsters who are essentially like bullies with guns. Now that i'm actually older than Dylan I feel like that view of them has kind of shattered. I'm still a kid. Just because I can vote and drink (in my country) doesn't mean I'm actually grown up. And that makes me feel like Dylan and Eric were still kids when they died.

Do you agree? Have you had any wierd age-related realizations about mass shootings?
i can relate a lot seeing as my 18th birthday was last month. i counted down the precise day i would be the same age dylan was when he died. this is something i often do with historical figures I'm interested in, and occasionally mass shooters too. it doesn't even have to be the day they died – it could be the day a certain photo was taken, the day that person achieved something noteworthy, or the day a particular life even happened. i get the same feeling each time, which is something i can't really describe. i don't know if this is weird or not; it's just something i do.

i still feel like a child, also. age in years isn't necessarily a reliable indicator of maturity past a certain point, even if that's how the legal system works. people's brains don't stop growing until long after 18, and even then most that age have their own insecurities and problems just like everyone else, although they're sometimes better equipped to deal with them. experiencing that innocent reverence of "adults" gradually evaporate over time is just another thing that happens to all of us. to be honest, being 18 is kind of shit and i get the feeling that I've been somehow ripped off. idk about you, though. 

nobody throws their life away to become a mass shooter just because they're inherently evil or "big brute monsters with guns". they're usually misguided, damaged people who unfortunately choose to go down the wrong path, and innocent people are left to suffer the consequences of those decisions. the fact that it even happens at all just makes me sad, to put it simply.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, BUDDY flower king queen ding ding ding sunny
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mrbaby56

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PostSubject: Re: I'm older than Dylan ever was.   I'm older than Dylan ever was. Icon_minitimeWed Mar 10, 2021 6:25 am

pluviam wrote:
mrbaby56 wrote:
Today I'm 18 years old. For my entire time researching Columbine, I've always seen Eric and Dylan as these big brute monsters who are essentially like bullies with guns. Now that i'm actually older than Dylan I feel like that view of them has kind of shattered. I'm still a kid. Just because I can vote and drink (in my country) doesn't mean I'm actually grown up. And that makes me feel like Dylan and Eric were still kids when they died.

Do you agree? Have you had any wierd age-related realizations about mass shootings?
i can relate a lot seeing as my 18th birthday was last month. i counted down the precise day i would be the same age dylan was when he died. this is something i often do with historical figures I'm interested in, and occasionally mass shooters too. it doesn't even have to be the day they died – it could be the day a certain photo was taken, the day that person achieved something noteworthy, or the day a particular life even happened. i get the same feeling each time, which is something i can't really describe. i don't know if this is weird or not; it's just something i do.

i still feel like a child, also. age in years isn't necessarily a reliable indicator of maturity past a certain point, even if that's how the legal system works. people's brains don't stop growing until long after 18, and even then most that age have their own insecurities and problems just like everyone else, although they're sometimes better equipped to deal with them. experiencing that innocent reverence of "adults" gradually evaporate over time is just another thing that happens to all of us. to be honest, being 18 is kind of shit and i get the feeling that I've been somehow ripped off. idk about you, though. 

nobody throws their life away to become a mass shooter just because they're inherently evil or "big brute monsters with guns". they're usually misguided, damaged people who unfortunately choose to go down the wrong path, and innocent people are left to suffer the consequences of those decisions. the fact that it even happens at all just makes me sad, to put it simply.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, BUDDY flower king queen ding ding ding sunny

My view of Eric and Dylan has definitely changed over the years. I do think I've become more understanding towards how they would think or feel, but I still struggle with understanding what it would take for me to end up where Eric and Dylan where, mentally. I guess mental ilness was a big part of it.
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PostSubject: Re: I'm older than Dylan ever was.   I'm older than Dylan ever was. Icon_minitimeWed Mar 10, 2021 6:47 am

mrbaby56 wrote:
My view of Eric and Dylan has definitely changed over the years. I do think I've become more understanding towards how they would think or feel, but I still struggle with understanding what it would take for me to end up where Eric and Dylan where, mentally. I guess mental health was a big part of it.
i think that's something a lot of us think about. at the end of the day, mass murder is a choice, meaning that if you would have to resent other people intensely for a long time before making it. it's good to be conscious that at some point your circumstances could change and that mass murderers aren't a totally different species. it's similar to the dismissive attitude certain people hold towards suicide when they say stuff like "it's the weak thing to do" or that it's selfish or whatever without knowing what it's like to be in another person's shoes. understanding why other people do things is important in finding solutions. in the same vein, it's school shooters and the like who don't empathize with the strangers they target because they don't know what it's like to be them.

that's one of the reasons i like to research mass murderers, at least. it would be wishful thinking to expect most other people (especially in the media) to have that same attitude, though.
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cakeman

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PostSubject: Re: I'm older than Dylan ever was.   I'm older than Dylan ever was. Icon_minitimeFri Mar 12, 2021 3:40 am

Yep, it's odd being much older than them and having been much younger than them when they did the crime. They go from big baddies to small fries.

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PostSubject: Re: I'm older than Dylan ever was.   I'm older than Dylan ever was. Icon_minitimeSat Mar 13, 2021 7:48 pm

When I look at the two of them, I see young boys who didn't have any idea what it was to live and no concept of what it meant to die. Mental health issues, rage over bullying and no access to the tools needed to find a light at the end of the tunnel. Eric hoped the afterlife was like Doom. Dylan was certain he'd die and be in a new room of existence with his love... and maybe they'd come back as ghosts? God. Yeah. They were kids and immature ones at that.

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cakeman

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PostSubject: Re: I'm older than Dylan ever was.   I'm older than Dylan ever was. Icon_minitimeMon Mar 15, 2021 8:23 am

pluviam wrote:
mrbaby56 wrote:
My view of Eric and Dylan has definitely changed over the years. I do think I've become more understanding towards how they would think or feel, but I still struggle with understanding what it would take for me to end up where Eric and Dylan where, mentally. I guess mental health was a big part of it.
i think that's something a lot of us think about. at the end of the day, mass murder is a choice, meaning that if you would have to resent other people intensely for a long time before making it. it's good to be conscious that at some point your circumstances could change and that mass murderers aren't a totally different species. it's similar to the dismissive attitude certain people hold towards suicide when they say stuff like "it's the weak thing to do" or that it's selfish or whatever without knowing what it's like to be in another person's shoes. understanding why other people do things is important in finding solutions. in the same vein, it's school shooters and the like who don't empathize with the strangers they target because they don't know what it's like to be them.

that's one of the reasons i like to research mass murderers, at least. it would be wishful thinking to expect most other people (especially in the media) to have that same attitude, though.
It does seem to me like the notion of all people being capable of murder and some choosing to do so is often left out of the discussion. Indeed, it seems like some would define mental illness as "choosing to murder." As if they were only mentally ill that morning, or had they never done the massacre that they'd never be diagnosed as mentally ill. A sense of denial about the tragedy seems to motivate some of that. Others by the allowance of worshiping the perpetrators as revolutionaries if the bad parts are an illness out of their control.
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PostSubject: Re: I'm older than Dylan ever was.   I'm older than Dylan ever was. Icon_minitimeMon Mar 15, 2021 10:38 pm

cakeman wrote:
It does seem to me like the notion of all people being capable of murder and some choosing to do so is often left out of the discussion. Indeed, it seems like some would define mental illness as "choosing to murder." As if they were only mentally ill that morning, or had they never done the massacre that they'd never be diagnosed as mentally ill. A sense of denial about the tragedy seems to motivate some of that. Others by the allowance of worshiping the perpetrators as revolutionaries if the bad parts are an illness out of their control.
agreed. people have been killing each other for most of our history, not that it justifies murder in the contemporary sense, but the idea that most people are innately incapable of it seems to be a widely held opinion. under the right circumstances, i believe most would take another person's life.
always found this video and the audience's reaction interesting:
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PostSubject: Re: I'm older than Dylan ever was.   I'm older than Dylan ever was. Icon_minitimeMon Mar 15, 2021 10:43 pm

of course, what he says is flawed also because most people have more of a moral compass than Richard Ramirez but the way the audience immediately dismisses it is revealing. for most people, they have to be under significant chronic or acute stress before going to the lengths of killing someone; as opposed to someone like him who seemed to do it for entertainment.
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PostSubject: Re: I'm older than Dylan ever was.   I'm older than Dylan ever was. Icon_minitimeTue Mar 16, 2021 11:30 am

I think the absolute majority of “normal” people would have become involved in violent crime in some way or another with the sort of upbringing Ramirez had, but maybe their motivation would’ve been money and not entertainment. Not sure about the last part, though; most, if not all, children are cruel or even sadistic to some degree (so much for them being pure innocent angels) and maybe with the right (i.e. wrong) kind of circumstances while growing up every kid has potential to turn into a serial killer who does it for fun.
Also, most are capable of taking someone’s life when they believe it’s justified. That’s what happened countless times throughout history and still happens every day, think war or Islamic terrorism. Ironically, people who say that killers are inherently different and “inhuman” are usually the same people who wish the worst kinds of death upon said killers.
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mrbaby56

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PostSubject: Re: I'm older than Dylan ever was.   I'm older than Dylan ever was. Icon_minitimeTue Mar 16, 2021 11:46 am

morgenroede wrote:
Ironically, people who say that killers are inherently different and “inhuman” are usually the same people who wish the worst kinds of death upon said killers.

I agree. In my opinion that's probably the worst part on the r/masskillers subreddit. They are generally very reluctant to show any mercy towards those "evil" people. i remember when I spoke about Mattias Flink and how his shooting was a result of alcohol-induced psychosis. People would not accept that he'd been released and most seemed to think that he should've been executed. Personally I think prison should be primarily about rehabilitation, and not for revenge.
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PostSubject: Re: I'm older than Dylan ever was.   I'm older than Dylan ever was. Icon_minitimeTue Mar 16, 2021 1:20 pm

n/a


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PostSubject: Re: I'm older than Dylan ever was.   I'm older than Dylan ever was. Icon_minitimeTue Mar 16, 2021 7:59 pm

I will be 25 on April 20th.
D/E were kids. How was I when I was 18 ? Just a kid too.
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