Dylan's suicide

For someone who wanted to kill himself so badly I'm shocked that he used the Tec 9, and just shot at his temple. With shooting yourself in the temple, there's still a chance you may survive, and he didn't die instantly. Must have been a painful death. There are people who have killed themselves with a gun, and they suffered a very painful death (See: Bjork Stalker).

For a guy who really wanted to die I'm surprised he didn't blow his brains out like Eric did. He could've just used Eric's gun for instant death, and Eric killed himself first...then Dylan did. Again, you'd expect Dylan to kill himself first.

Just a few interesting things.

I think he thought any gun will kill him. Or maybe he wanted to die in pain? I think he suffered pain for about minute or two..
How did Eric actually shot himself? was it gun under his chin or in his mouth?

Maybe he wanted to try and make it a bit of a cleaner death after seeing what a shotgun does to a guys head.

Radioactive_Clothing wrote:

Maybe he wanted to try and make it a bit of a cleaner death after seeing what a shotgun does to a guys head.

lmao at this dark humor.
Seriously though...you would think he'd kill himself instantly by using his shotgun, or just taking Eric's. Look if I'm going to kill myself I wouldn't use a shitty gun like a Tec 9, and still have a chance of survival. I'm using a shot gun, and squeezing the trigger while it's in my mouth.

Dylan'sgirl wrote:

I think he thought any gun will kill him. Or maybe he wanted to die in pain? I think he suffered pain for about minute or two..
How did Eric actually shot himself? was it gun under his chin or in his mouth?

I believe Eric killed himself by sitting down and putting the gun in his mouth upwards. Blew his brain stem clean off. He didn't feel a thing. Dylan was on his knees when he shot himself. I'm pretty sure...no, almost positive he saw Eric killing himself. Wonder what he thought for those 20-40 seconds when Eric killed himself before he squeezed the trigger on himself.

does not matter, i think.
dylan has been an emo anyway - fate of the GREAT GIFTED (oh chipzzzz).
anyways, eric has been the soldier - so - what is so ridiculous about comitting suicide or homicide? i still thank them for making their dream come true (, although i do not condone rampage of course...)

greetz
nightshiftstalker

lol wrote:

I believe Eric killed himself by sitting down and putting the gun in his mouth upwards. Blew his brain stem clean off. He didn't feel a thing. Dylan was on his knees when he shot himself. I'm pretty sure...no, almost positive he saw Eric killing himself. Wonder what he thought for those 20-40 seconds when Eric killed himself before he squeezed the trigger on himself.

Wait a minute, Dylan was alive, alone, for 20-40 seconds?!?

That's news to me... I guess you can learn important new things even after 16 years!

But I must ask, are we sure?

lio45 wrote:

lol wrote:

I believe Eric killed himself by sitting down and putting the gun in his mouth upwards. Blew his brain stem clean off. He didn't feel a thing. Dylan was on his knees when he shot himself. I'm pretty sure...no, almost positive he saw Eric killing himself. Wonder what he thought for those 20-40 seconds when Eric killed himself before he squeezed the trigger on himself.

Wait a minute, Dylan was alive, alone, for 20-40 seconds?!?

That's news to me... I guess you can learn important new things even after 16 years!

But I must ask, are we sure?

Dylan was definitely alive after Eric killed himself. How long? We don't know. I was just estimating, but definitely less than a minute. They did not kill themselves at the same time, especially where Dylan is placed. Eric killed himself first, instantly. Dylan then killed himself (and he most likely witnessed Eric killing himself at the corner of his eye). He moved around for a little for a minute or so before he died. I think he suffered in the last few moments of his life.

I really don't think there's anything to what gun Dylan used. He just used the gun that he was carrying at the time. I'm pretty sure at that point he just wanted it to be over with. Why do you think that Dylan waited an extra minute or so before shooting? I do think it's possible he could have hesitated. I mean, it took committing a mass shooting for him to get the nerve to finally kill himself, so it's possible that he could have taken longer to go through with it and take in the moment.

I think Eric, on the other hand, just saw the suicide as a necessary end to his NBK. I don't think he planned out at all how he was going to kill himself until he sat down in the corner. I'm pretty sure, as it's been said many times before, that they both planned to die by police fire (maybe their final gun battle in the library window was an attempt at suicide by cop?)

Personally in the end they chose with suicide because it's "better". Again, if I'm committing mass murder "Suicide by cop" may not work from far distance. What happens if they only severely injury you? You're screwed. Jailed for life...forever, and most likely death penalty (for Eric).

I don't think Dylan really thought much about a chance of surviving.
I think he just assumed the Tec9 would do the job just as well as the shotgun.
Plus I feel like putting a shotgun in your mouth would be a lot scarier
than putting a Tec9 to your temple. He may have been a little nervous.

I don't know think Dylan waited too long after Eric killed himself to do the same.
And he very well may have watched Eric kill himself, but maybe not.
Weren't they both facing the same direction?
And didn't Dylan set off a molotov cocktail before he committed suicide?

death penalty is so great - unfortunately, we do not have somethin' like that, here in Germany (cynically slimin' - how slamin' one can be (haha))...

browneyes11 wrote:

I don't think Dylan really thought much about a chance of surviving.
I think he just assumed the Tec9 would do the job just as well as the shotgun.
Plus I feel like putting a shotgun in your mouth would be a lot scarier
than putting a Tec9 to your temple. He may have been a little nervous.

I don't know think Dylan waited too long after Eric killed himself to do the same.
And he very well may have watched Eric kill himself, but maybe not.
Weren't they both facing the same direction?
And didn't Dylan set off a molotov cocktail before he committed suicide?

They did set some sort of explosive on one of the counter tops before teh suicide iirc. I always thought it was a "hy, I still have this one, would be a waste not to use it somewhere" decision.

Also, I do not think we can be sure about their original positions. The "E&D dead in the library" photo was taken already after police moved their bodies around looking for explosives.

Dylan seems to be the one most looking forward to the suicide. He was heard shoutin stuf like: "Today is teh day I'm gonna die!" during the massacre.

Eric? I think suicide for him was a necessary end to NBK, but in a different way than it was Dylan. Dylan wanted to die badly, Eric wanted to have a way not to participate in the society he hated and not be locked up in jail.

Sabratha wrote:

browneyes11 wrote:

I don't think Dylan really thought much about a chance of surviving.
I think he just assumed the Tec9 would do the job just as well as the shotgun.
Plus I feel like putting a shotgun in your mouth would be a lot scarier
than putting a Tec9 to your temple. He may have been a little nervous.

I don't know think Dylan waited too long after Eric killed himself to do the same.
And he very well may have watched Eric kill himself, but maybe not.
Weren't they both facing the same direction?
And didn't Dylan set off a molotov cocktail before he committed suicide?

They did set some sort of explosive on one of the counter tops before teh suicide iirc. I always thought it was a "hy, I still have this one, would be a waste not to use it somewhere" decision.

Also, I do not think we can be sure about their original positions. The "E&D dead in the library" photo was taken already after police moved their bodies around looking for explosives.

Dylan seems to be the one most looking forward to the suicide. He was heard shoutin stuf like: "Today is teh day I'm gonna die!" during the massacre.

Eric? I think suicide for him was a necessary end to NBK, but in a different way than it was Dylan. Dylan wanted to die badly, Eric wanted to have a way not to participate in the society he hated and not be locked up in jail.

That's what I think! Dylan wanted to die since he started writing his journal, maybe even before?
Eric HAD to die after all the death he has caused.

I never knew Eric killed himself first! I thought they might have counted down and then fire the guns.. But it's sure as hell Eric didn't even feel a thing. Dylan on the other hand suffered and if I am correct he had some blood/fluids in his lungs? Also didn't Patrick Ireland heared coughing? and then it suddenly stopped?

browneyes11 wrote:

I don't know think Dylan waited too long after Eric killed himself to do the same.
And he very well may have watched Eric kill himself, but maybe not.

This has always been the biggest question for me, which I posed over a year ago, on a different thread: exactly how long was it between Eric's shotgun blast and Dylan pulling the trigger? Did Dylan actually see Eric blow his brains out all over the bookcase? Did that effect his decision to use the Tec-9? I suspect it was not very long between the two fatal shots, but I wish we had some kind of proof to know for sure.

Imagine watching your friend blow his fucking brains out.. that's just really awful. If Dylan did witness Eric killing himself, horrible last image to see.

I think the question here is was Eric supposed to wait for Dylan?

Eric was obviously ready to go when he sat down. Was Dylan taking off his jewellery and Eric was meant to wait for him til he was done sorting his shit?

I have a feeling that this was the case, then Eric just had a rush of blood (sorry!) and went for it, not wanting to delay any further.

I think Dylan was probably horrified by what he saw, had to gain his composure and as quickly as he could pull the trigger thereafter.

I can't see Eric saying "right man I'm ready" and Dylan just going "go ahead, I'll just take this shit off and off myself once you've gone".

Perhaps a selfish act of Eric not waiting for his buddy?

ThoughtBox wrote:

browneyes11 wrote:

I don't know think Dylan waited too long after Eric killed himself to do the same.
And he very well may have watched Eric kill himself, but maybe not.

This has always been the biggest question for me, which I posed over a year ago, on a different thread: exactly how long was it between Eric's shotgun blast and Dylan pulling the trigger? Did Dylan actually see Eric blow his brains out all over the bookcase? Did that effect his decision to use the Tec-9? I suspect it was not very long between the two fatal shots, but I wish we had some kind of proof to know for sure.

I don;t think we will ever know that precisely. It could not have been that long though. At 12:05 there were still shots fired from the library at the police outside. At 12:08 the fire prevention system in the library detected smoke taht originated from a small fire created by that last firebomb E&D left. So it means it was already burning for some 1 minute or so at 12:08.

So this leaves us with a relatively shot time between let's say 12:05 and 12:07. Two minutes tops between the last shots fired at the police and the suicide.

Remember that they had to sit down, check the weapons, etc, this is probably some 20-25 seconds in itself (for reference, just checed how much time it took our actors in the film).
I imagine E&D also had some sort of short conversation. I imagine it was at least some 30 second long: "Bye Voda - Take care Reb, its ben cool" type thing.

I'm not sure what the time between the suicides was, but given the above, it is physically impossible for it to have been longer than 1.5 minutes. IMHO it was probably much less, perhaps just several seconds.

Sabratha wrote:

ThoughtBox wrote:

browneyes11 wrote:

I don't know think Dylan waited too long after Eric killed himself to do the same.
And he very well may have watched Eric kill himself, but maybe not.

This has always been the biggest question for me, which I posed over a year ago, on a different thread: exactly how long was it between Eric's shotgun blast and Dylan pulling the trigger? Did Dylan actually see Eric blow his brains out all over the bookcase? Did that effect his decision to use the Tec-9? I suspect it was not very long between the two fatal shots, but I wish we had some kind of proof to know for sure.

I don;t think we will ever know that precisely. It could not have been that long though. At 12:05 there were still shots fired from the library at the police outside. At 12:08 the fire prevention system in the library detected smoke taht originated from a small fire created by that last firebomb E&D left. So it means it was already burning for some 1 minute or so at 12:08.

So this leaves us with a relatively shot time between let's say 12:05 and 12:07. Two minutes tops between the last shots fired at the police and the suicide.

Remember that they had to sit down, check the weapons, etc, this is probably some 20-25 seconds in itself (for reference, just checed how much time it took our actors in the film).
I imagine E&D also had some sort of short conversation. I imagine it was at least some 30 second long: "Bye Voda - Take care Reb, its ben cool" type thing.

I'm not sure what the time between the suicides was, but given the above, it is physically impossible for it to have been longer than 1.5 minutes. IMHO it was probably much less, perhaps just several seconds.

Well, in a situation such as that, seconds would seem interminable. I can't really imagine a scenario with much of a conversation at all, but I would give ANYTHING to know what, if anything, was said. I actually doubt anything was said outside of "ready?", really. Thirty seconds of conversation would be way too much, it's a lot longer time when you actually look at a stopwatch and wait it out....

I'll have to look for the thread where this was discussed a quite a detailed length, I know it's here on the site, and some current members had some really insightful and thought-provoking things to say.

ThoughtBox wrote:

Sabratha wrote:

ThoughtBox wrote:

browneyes11 wrote:

I don't know think Dylan waited too long after Eric killed himself to do the same.
And he very well may have watched Eric kill himself, but maybe not.

This has always been the biggest question for me, which I posed over a year ago, on a different thread: exactly how long was it between Eric's shotgun blast and Dylan pulling the trigger? Did Dylan actually see Eric blow his brains out all over the bookcase? Did that effect his decision to use the Tec-9? I suspect it was not very long between the two fatal shots, but I wish we had some kind of proof to know for sure.

I don;t think we will ever know that precisely. It could not have been that long though. At 12:05 there were still shots fired from the library at the police outside. At 12:08 the fire prevention system in the library detected smoke taht originated from a small fire created by that last firebomb E&D left. So it means it was already burning for some 1 minute or so at 12:08.

So this leaves us with a relatively shot time between let's say 12:05 and 12:07. Two minutes tops between the last shots fired at the police and the suicide.

Remember that they had to sit down, check the weapons, etc, this is probably some 20-25 seconds in itself (for reference, just checed how much time it took our actors in the film).
I imagine E&D also had some sort of short conversation. I imagine it was at least some 30 second long: "Bye Voda - Take care Reb, its ben cool" type thing.

I'm not sure what the time between the suicides was, but given the above, it is physically impossible for it to have been longer than 1.5 minutes. IMHO it was probably much less, perhaps just several seconds.

Well, in a situation such as that, seconds would seem interminable. I can't really imagine a scenario with much of a conversation at all, but I would give ANYTHING to know what, if anything, was said. I actually doubt anything was said outside of "ready?", really. Thirty seconds of conversation would be way too much, it's a lot longer time when you actually look at a stopwatch and wait it out....

I've always envision it that nothing was said, actually. I get the feeling that once they found the place to kill themselves that Eric just sat down and did it quickly, before Dylan was even ready. I have no doubt that Dylan saw Eric dead. The suicides, as you already know, is one of my favorite topics.

Wasn't Eric's blood found on the handle of Dylan's Tec-9? This might suggest that they shook hands before the suicide. Blood from Eric's nose that he wiped off was carried over to Dylan's hand and thus on the Tec-9 just before he used it on himself. Sure this could have easily landed on the gun after Eric blew the top of his head off, but IIRC it was found under Dylan's hand that was gripping the gun.

If they did shook hands they probably also said some last goodbye words.

MegaloX wrote:

Wasn't Eric's blood found on the handle of Dylan's Tec-9? This might suggest that they shook hands before the suicide. Blood from Eric's nose that he wiped off was carried over to Dylan's hand and thus on the Tec-9 just before he used it on himself. Sure this could have easily landed on the gun after Eric blew the top of his head off, but IIRC it was found under Dylan's hand that was gripping the gun.

If they did shook hands they probably also said some last goodbye words.

That's a really interesting thought. I mean, I can't imagine them not saying something before they committed suicide.
If I was about to commit suicide with my close friend then I'm sure I'd say something

I have no idea what if anythign was said. They did have a hand gesture agreed before as a sign for the suicide.

Having said that, I think they likley felt that they have the time. SO my ebst guess would be a short "thanks man, its been cool" conversation, the shaking hands part would fit into this.

I can speculate that that last firebomb was perhaps used by Eric as a sort of final icebraker to remove some of the gloomy mood. The sort of: "Hey, I still have one of these babies, why not set it alight here!? Whatddaya say man?"

That would explain why its just been set alight on a coutnertop, not thrown at someone or something.

Sabratha wrote:

I can speculate that that last firebomb was perhaps used by Eric as a sort of final icebraker to remove some of the gloomy mood. The sort of: "Hey, I still have one of these babies, why not set it alight here!? Whatddaya say man?"

That would explain why its just been set alight on a coutnertop, not thrown at someone or something.

I never thought about the "molotov" being used like that before; thinking about it that way, it almost makes it sound like the lighting of a candle on an altar, to which they "sacrificed" themselves. I wonder (I'm not sure about the way things were placed in the library diagrams), if Dylan might even have been kneeling down around or in front of it, or looking at it as he prepared himself for the final shot. Intriguing indeed.

I was reading on Tumblr blog that Eric was sitting down and Dylan was kneeling .The thing i do not get is how did they have the stomach to shoot themselves after they have seen what the gun does to other people they killed .

Look at it this way. If you're a mass murdererwould you rather be jailed forever, and executed, or kill yourselves by your own head? You damn better believe I'd blow my brains out too.

Eric and Dylan upon even the most ruthless villains will not take it likely that E&D were child killers. Many prisoners beat the living shit out of pedophiles who wind up in there. Child killers are viewed upon worse.

Yes , i get that part .

lol wrote:

Look at it this way. If you're a mass murdererwould you rather be jailed forever, and executed, or kill yourselves by your own head? You damn better believe I'd blow my brains out too.

Breivik disagrees. So do a few others.

Some killers are just motivated by different things and have a different personality than Eric or Dylan.

Sabratha wrote:

lol wrote:

Look at it this way. If you're a mass murdererwould you rather be jailed forever, and executed, or kill yourselves by your own head? You damn better believe I'd blow my brains out too.

Breivik disagrees. So do a few others.

Some killers are just motivated by different things and have a different personality than Eric or Dylan.

Breivik has a lot more of a chance for a reprieve though. Is the maximum sentence in Norway not something like 18 years? Granted, they'll probably keep him locked up til he dies through some loophole, but there is that glimmer for him.

Out of interest, is it 18 to be an adult in America? Is there any way that Eric might have got a harsher sentence than Dylan through this?

I know here in the UK you get the likes of the lads who killed little James Bulger - they are out now and free under new identities. I know they were only 10 when they murdered him but there must be some sort of line that's crossed when a 'child is a child'.

I know there's a big difference between being 10 and 17 but if in the eyes of the law you're a child (0-17) do punishments class the same?

I have no idea about USA, I know legal age depends on what state youa re in.

In Poland if you are below 13 years of age then you are not held responsible, as the law considers you a kid. Above 13 you will be held responsible, but the law treats you different and you will get lower or special sentences if you are 13-16 than if you were over 17.

15 is the age of consent.

17 is when you get full criminal responsibility (unless you are mentally challenged etc)

18 is when you get full civil rigths and also you are no longer required by law to be in school after 18.

Dylan would have most likely been tried as an adult. The Colorado law says anyone over the age of 12 can be tried as an adult. They both had equal parts in the massacre and probably would have gotten the same sentence. However, Eric could have gotten the death penalty but not Dylan. Anyone under the age of 18 cannot be given the death penalty in the state of Colorado.

Sabratha wrote:

I have no idea about USA, I know legal age depends on what state youa re in.

In Poland if you are below 13 years of age then you are not held responsible, as the law considers you a kid. Above 13 you will be held responsible, but the law treats you different and you will get lower or special sentences if you are 13-16 than if you were over 17.

Ridiculous. Completely ridiculous. It is the same thing in USA. Those 2 scum bags Mitchell Johnson, and Andrew Golden were 13 years old, and 11 when they planned to murder students, teachers, etc. These kids PLANNED it out carefully. It isn't as if one day they decided let's do it on the same day. No these damn kids planned it out, and had a similar plan to Eric and Dylan. This was back in '98 I believe. One killer would pull the fire alarm, while all the students go outside because of the fire alarm, and they will mow down the students. That was their plan

Somehow those bastards didn't get the death penalty? No, screw that. Ridiculous law. Ridiculous sentencing. America has such a fail system. How the hell do you let those kids go? They KNEW what they were doing.

I'm just steamed because so many of these murderers get such light sentences. What justice was there for the victims' families?

If I remember correctly someone heard dylan cough after he shot himself and also if you look at the photos of them you'll see that dylan has blood on the sides of his mouth.

Sabratha wrote:

I have no idea about USA, I know legal age depends on what state youa re in.

In Poland if you are below 13 years of age then you are not held responsible, as the law considers you a kid. Above 13 you will be held responsible, but the law treats you different and you will get lower or special sentences if you are 13-16 than if you were over 17.

15 is the age of consent.

17 is when you get full criminal responsibility (unless you are mentally challenged etc)

18 is when you get full civil rigths and also you are no longer required by law to be in school after 18.

What's interesting to me - sorry to go off-topic - is how varied the age of consent is here and how it varies for different things even in the same state. For example, you have to be 18 to send nudes to someome but in most states the age of consent for sex is 16 or 17, not 18. Colorado's is 17. Not that I looked that up or anything.

I'm not a fan of the death penalty but I could never agree with an 11 and 13 year old being executed.

lol wrote:

Sabratha wrote:

I have no idea about USA, I know legal age depends on what state youa re in.

In Poland if you are below 13 years of age then you are not held responsible, as the law considers you a kid. Above 13 you will be held responsible, but the law treats you different and you will get lower or special sentences if you are 13-16 than if you were over 17.

Ridiculous. Completely ridiculous. It is the same thing in USA. Those 2 scum bags Mitchell Johnson, and Andrew Golden were 13 years old, and 11 when they planned to murder students, teachers, etc. These kids PLANNED it out carefully. It isn't as if one day they decided let's do it on the same day. No these damn kids planned it out, and had a similar plan to Eric and Dylan. This was back in '98 I believe. One killer would pull the fire alarm, while all the students go outside because of the fire alarm, and they will mow down the students. That was their plan

Somehow those bastards didn't get the death penalty? No, screw that. Ridiculous law. Ridiculous sentencing. America has such a fail system. How the hell do you let those kids go? They KNEW what they were doing.

I'm just steamed because so many of these murderers get such light sentences. What justice was there for the victims' families?

actually, i still think, that one has not only to mention, but to analyze socialisation as a complex topic in itself.

true - the two of them were "mentally challenged" and i do not like people being diagnosed after being gone - or having caught the bus (quoting from the semi-famous ash- and asm-files as most of you will know, i guess...).

obsessive-compulsive personality disorder is more or less scenceless by describing - like all the numb3rs in dsm-V (or dsm-IV and so on) do.
luvox can lighten one's mood - fair enough - prozac as well.
however - i do not condone their actions, nor am i a fanboy concerning the whole breivik case.
nevertheless, it was really great to watch norway being an example for "human society" in general - although i still dislike the judge provoking him also.

disorders in general are not only decriptive, but labeling people - including anders behring breivik, eric david harris, dylan klebold, robert steinhäuser and so many more like bastian bosse and and and... -after having gone through the whole process of being diagnosed and interviewed (policemen do interview people as well - and some of them are later the next destroyers in one way or another - ignoring their own children, parents, relatives, friends and / or neighbors to be even more pathetic than i usually express my anger and so-called emotions in general) - life may shatter in to pieces.

having mentioned before, i do not like "emo-speech", that is why i always attempt to sound SO cynic like the awesome yolos do - please, ignore it.
i know - most people hate friggin' men like me flamebating around - it's my sense of life, but i respect people believing in / really talking to ghost - i do not (anymore).
just another example of diagnosing other one's beliefs and making use of having the license to destroy their life's, actually.

people call me a nimby (not-in-my-backyard-attititude-faker) from times to times - that's what i just call my columbine obsession.
it might be helpful to share interests and debate about it - by ignoring different backgrounds.

eric had to move and never really could feel "having gotten things settled" - plus so many others highten the pressure (s. a.) and mobbing does exist.

(north- and southpole do aswell, breivik and his stats - gettin' really old.
scapegoats are always the other ones.
trans*phobia may lead to suicide, rampage or just self hatred (or love-hate-relationships etc.) and still most people ignore it.

here, in germay, people are quite respectful, even in berlin or hamburg - munich or frankfurt / main or goettingen and kassel.
however - regarding trans*men as dogs or trans*women as objects is what many people do.

still there are many homophobic as well as straight people of any color who follow phrases like: you are a wo(man) be proud!
you are a man - be a soldier.

sounds like telenovelas or soap operas - actually it's a great way to analyze society.
(always will be would be way too dramatic - i guess some one will blow "us" anyway - maybe not - who knows?
a god, who does not exist and "hating fake wo(men)"?

i'm really glad not to be merkel, clinto, obama or another politician - otherwise i would get too much money and spend it for annoying orange and other technical goodies (cynically speaking), yo.

thanks for reading my hanky-cranky shit, yo.

greetz and always thinkin' of eric, dylan, anders and robert
nightshiftstalker

// copy and paste is funny, but not intended //

actually, i still think, that one has not only to mention, but to analyze socialisation as a complex topic in itself.

true - the two of them were "mentally challenged" and i do not like people being diagnosed after being gone - or having caught the bus (quoting from the semi-famous ash- and asm-files as most of you will know, i guess...).

obsessive-compulsive personality disorder is more or less scenceless by describing - like all the numb3rs in dsm-V (or dsm-IV and so on) do.
luvox can lighten one's mood - fair enough - prozac as well.
however - i do not condone their actions, nor am i a fanboy concerning the whole breivik case.
nevertheless, it was really great to watch norway being an example for "human society" in general - although i still dislike the judge provoking him also.

disorders in general are not only decriptive, but labeling people - including anders behring breivik, eric david harris, dylan klebold, robert steinhäuser and so many more like bastian bosse and and and... -after having gone through the whole process of being diagnosed and interviewed (policemen do interview people as well - and some of them are later the next destroyers in one way or another - ignoring their own children, parents, relatives, friends and / or neighbors to be even more pathetic than i usually express my anger and so-called emotions in general) - life may shatter in to pieces.

having mentioned before, i do not like "emo-speech", that is why i always attempt to sound SO cynic like the awesome yolos do - please, ignore it.
i know - most people hate friggin' men like me flamebating around - it's my sense of life, but i respect people believing in / really talking to ghost - i do not (anymore).
just another example of diagnosing other one's beliefs and making use of having the license to destroy their life's, actually.

people call me a nimby (not-in-my-backyard-attititude-faker) from times to times - that's what i just call my columbine obsession.
it might be helpful to share interests and debate about it - by ignoring different backgrounds.

eric had to move and never really could feel "having gotten things settled" - plus so many others highten the pressure (s. a.) and mobbing does exist.

(north- and southpole do aswell, breivik and his stats - gettin' really old.
scapegoats are always the other ones.
trans*phobia may lead to suicide, rampage or just self hatred (or love-hate-relationships etc.) and still most people ignore it.

here, in germay, people are quite respectful, even in berlin or hamburg - munich or frankfurt / main or goettingen and kassel.
however - regarding trans*men as dogs or trans*women as objects is what many people do.

still there are many homophobic as well as straight people of any color who follow phrases like: you are a wo(man) be proud!
you are a man - be a soldier.

sounds like telenovelas or soap operas - actually it's a great way to analyze society.
(always will be would be way too dramatic - i guess some one will blow "us" anyway - maybe not - who knows?
a god, who does not exist and "hating fake wo(men)"?

i'm really glad not to be merkel, clinton, obama or another politician - otherwise i would get too much money and spend it for annoying orange and other technical goodies (cynically speaking), yo.

thanks for reading my hanky-cranky shit, yo.

greetz and always thinkin' of eric, dylan, anders and robert
nightshiftstalker

// copy and paste is funny, but not intended //

lol wrote:

Sabratha wrote:

I have no idea about USA, I know legal age depends on what state youa re in.

In Poland if you are below 13 years of age then you are not held responsible, as the law considers you a kid. Above 13 you will be held responsible, but the law treats you different and you will get lower or special sentences if you are 13-16 than if you were over 17.

Ridiculous. Completely ridiculous. It is the same thing in USA. Those 2 scum bags Mitchell Johnson, and Andrew Golden were 13 years old, and 11 when they planned to murder students, teachers, etc. These kids PLANNED it out carefully. It isn't as if one day they decided let's do it on the same day. No these damn kids planned it out, and had a similar plan to Eric and Dylan. This was back in '98 I believe. One killer would pull the fire alarm, while all the students go outside because of the fire alarm, and they will mow down the students. That was their plan

Somehow those bastards didn't get the death penalty? No, screw that. Ridiculous law. Ridiculous sentencing. America has such a fail system. How the hell do you let those kids go? They KNEW what they were doing.

I'm just steamed because so many of these murderers get such light sentences. What justice was there for the victims' families?

Well, Poland has its own laws, but we also have to adapt to EU agreed reulations, so its mroe complex than that. I'm no lawyer, can;'t speak with any authority on the subject. I know EU membership was a big issue behind the decision of us dropping the death penalty alltogeather.

I'm not convined of a death penalty for 13 year old mind you, but I do think they deserve a thorough mental examination and if found sane should receive a long prison sentence for planning such a massacre.

I honestly believe Dylan would have waited to kill himself after Eric either way. For Dylan suicide was his big finale. He had waited years to die. I don't see him wanting to share that moment with Eric by dying at the same time. He wanted to enter the Halcyon alone. At the same time though I think he waited to make sure Eric went through with it. Even if suicide was personal to Dylan it doesn't change the fact that the plan was for both boys to die. He may have wanted to die alone, but Eric was still his best friend. If he killed himself first and then Eric backed out it would be the ULTIMATE betrayal. The year worth of planning and all the time, work, money, and ass kissing it took to pull NBK off would have essentially meant nothing. Not if the one person Dylan trusted enough to rampage with couldn't see it through to the agreed end.


The way I see it? Dylan needed Eric more than he wanted to admit. Without Eric he wasn't a God towering over zombies. He was a lonely and heavily disturbed individual wallowing in his pity. NBK combined with their deaths would make them martyrs. His death alone at the End of NBK would make him the monster who couldn't own up to his actions.

Here's a question: Do you think either boy worried what the other might say if one of them didnt go through with it? If one survived and the other didnt they could spin it and say the other was the leader. Like if Eric survived he could say Dylan's depressive attitude rubbed off on him and he saw no point in living. If Dylan lived he could say Eric's anger rubbed off on him and he was convinced he needed to kill to feel better. Sure they had already made the basement tapes which would make both out to be guilty, but a living person can defend their image and actions much better than a dead person can. I've always wondered if their friendship would have held up if they'd been caught. Would they have turned on each other for a lighter sentence/punishment?

Good point Nirvana.

Personally I feel that they both needed each other, but Eric needed Dylan more IMO. Dylan was one of his last friends left. He always had issues with his friends. Zach and Eric had a falling out, Nate, Brooks, and Nick (the one who took Rachel Scott to prom). Kid could not ever keep his friends.

The diversion files and journals tell us a lot more than we realize. Eric said Dylan was his "best friend" (this is Jan 98, junior year). Dylan said Eric was his "good friend" . If you notice in the journals Eric is always speaking about Dylan , "Vodka". Dylan rarely mentioned him, and when he did he called him Eric, not Reb.

People liked Dylan. Eric? Meh, not nearly as much as Dylan. That is why people were stunned Dylan was involved. Again,..with Eric many people werent shocked. Dylan will always be labeled a follower because he truly fooled everyone..

If they were caught they would have turned on each other. Just look at the van break in. Both tried turning on each other.

Dylan said him and Eric came up With the idea at the same time (not likely). Eric said it was Dylan's idea, but he kept putting himself as an innocent victim.

IMO, Dylan thought of the idea , and Eric decided to take action upon it.

Hmm...doesn't that sound familar?