Eric the bully(?)

Someone sent this to someone else (not me) back in 2011:

I was a sophomore that day and Danny Mauser was one of my best friends. What happened that day has caused me a lot of pain. More and more online I've seen kids who are enthralled by what happened at Columbine because they've been bullied and therefore have sympathy for Eric and Dylan. I just wanted to share some of my experiences with you to dispel some of those bully myths. I was a nerd at Columbine. Science Olympiad, math club, you name it, I did it. There was actually a period of time I, in a sense, looked up to Eric and Dylan, as me and my friends were involved in computer games like Doom. However it wasn't uncommon to get slammed into lockers or get called four eyes for being geeky underclassmen, particularly by Eric and some of his friends (not Dylan so much). You seem like a good kid and I just want to let you know not to get too sucked into the mythology behind Eric and Dylan. Bullying happened at Columbine, but not the severity some people make it out to have and most definitely not only directed at one group of kids.

Well even reading through the 11k there are some people that point to him and Dylan as bullies.

I wonder if that was Daniel's friend Jeremy. Tom Mauser writes in his book about Daniel's best friend Jeremy and how close they were.

What really bothers me the most about this is that even after Columbine, even IF bullying was not the cause of the shooting, it STILL happens very much so in schools all across America. In the last year alone I think I've read 4 or 5 stories of school age children (not even teenagers yet!) committing suicide because they were bullied.

I think Eric was a bully occasionally but I wonder if he was really slamming kids into lockers as he was a smaller guy himself.
I've actually heard that before from a guy online if is the same one I once talked to he also said that Rachel was nice but could also be condescending and patronizing which doesn't sound like her from the way others have described her.

Over 25 people in the 11k say Eric and Dylan were bullies.  Adam Kyler said Dylan threatened to kill him and his parents went to the administration about it.  Brooks Brown said they sat on tops of houses and shot BB guns at trick-or-treaters.  

It is not surprising that they were bullies, because they eventually attempted to kill most of their classmates in a sadistic way.  Of course they were bullies.  The biggest in the school, actually.

Yea, Dylan and Eric were both bullies themselves. My understanding is that Dylan was more of a bully than Eric. That Dylan actually hit girls before. And that Dylan threatened to kill a kid if he ever came back to school. The extent of it really doesn't matter though. In my opinion, a bully is a bully and both of them were one. They both admitted to it in their journals as well.

The culture @ Columbine was definitely inclusive bullying & status as stated on here often, that's the way it is in US high schools.

Columbine took it to the limits it seems. To this day Columbine is remarkable for its achievements, over achieving seems to be their thing. Unfortunately bullying goes right along with the other above standard actions.

That's too bad to hear. I really felt for E&D but after hearing this it makes me think again. But I shouldn't be too surprised because there were lots of journal entries by both of them that mentioned that if people would just compliment them more (Eric) or love them (Dylan) things could be different. But then we read about Susan Dewitt whom Eric had just started dating and all the close friends Dylan had who seemingly understood him and it makes you realize that nothing is really what it seems with them.
A little off topic but I think Dylan was probably ok before Eric; for the most part. I dated a guy last year who was super awesome and interesting but was SO negative and hateful towards so many people and I found myself becoming more and more disenchanted with mundane things and people everyday. I broke it off with him because I felt like I was becoming an angry person. Eric was a sociopath and Dylan was a lonely kid who needed a strong and forceful figure in his life and got sucked in. And once the attack began, there was turning back and it was monkey see, monkey do. Once he fired his first shots at people, there was no turning back because he had already written himself off as a bad person after the van incident and the attack planning. He kept his eye on the fact his suffering would end soon with Eric taking the lead and that's all she wrote.

Jlfox7 wrote:

That's too bad to hear. I really felt for E&D but after hearing this it makes me think again. But I shouldn't be too surprised because there were lots of journal entries by both of them that mentioned that if people would just compliment them more (Eric) or love them (Dylan) things could be different. But then we read about Susan Dewitt whom Eric had just started dating and all the close friends Dylan had who seemingly understood him and it makes you realize that nothing is really what it seems with them.
A little off topic but I think Dylan was probably ok before Eric; for the most part. I dated a guy last year who was super awesome and interesting but was SO negative and hateful towards so many people and I found myself becoming more and more disenchanted with mundane things and people everyday. I broke it off with him because I felt like I was becoming an angry person. Eric was a sociopath and Dylan was a lonely kid who needed a strong and forceful figure in his life and got sucked in. And once the attack began, there was turning back and it was monkey see, monkey do. Once he fired his first shots at people, there was no turning back because he had already written himself off as a bad person after the van incident and the attack planning. He kept his eye on the fact his suffering would end soon with Eric taking the lead and that's all she wrote.

Actually, it was Dylan who was talking about murdering people well before Eric ever did. Dylan was not some sad and lonely kid. He was jealous that his best friend got a girlfriend and wrote that he'd love to kill her. Eric was not Dylan's first choice as a partner to do his crimes with either. Dylan originally wanted to go on shooting spree with somebody else (Zach Heckler). He only ended up becoming so close to Eric because Zach got a girlfriend and started to spend more time with her than Dylan.

Bullying is often a vicious cycle. I have no doubt that Eric and Dylan were both bullied AND bullies themselves. Kids who get bullied often end up bullying other people to divert negative attention from themselves.

I still feel for Eric and Dylan after knowing this. It's sad all around.

@JlFox.
I hope you don't think that about Eric because of Dave Cullen's book.

Eric admits to picking on kids who had looked similar to himself. Bullying is more or less a social defense mechanism used to hide a persons own flaws by pointing out others problems. Even jocks who bully have something inside they don't like about themselves, so they turn their anger on others. Eric specifically became obsessed with his Reb character and portraying himself as a "badass". Bullying would have given him an instant self esteem boost and solidified him as a tough guy in his own mind. It didnt matter how small his targets were or the fact that he was only physically capable of intimidating weaklings. Anything that proved his broken ego wrong and allowed him to feel powerful was worth it in Erics mind. Anyone willing to kill innocent kids and blow up their school is a bully.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
I agree that some people bully because of projecting on to others but a lot of bullies I've seen who picked on me and who I've seen bullying others seemed to do it both simply because they could and because they enjoyed doing so.They seemed to genuinely enjoy the pain and humilation of others for its own sake.

Nirvana92 wrote:

Eric admits to picking on kids who had looked similar to himself. Bullying is more or less a social defense mechanism used to hide a persons own flaws by pointing out others problems. Even jocks who bully have something inside they don't like about themselves, so they turn their anger on others. Eric specifically became obsessed with his Reb character and portraying himself as a "badass". Bullying would have given him an instant self esteem boost and solidified him as a tough guy in his own mind. It didnt matter how small his targets were or the fact that he was only physically capable of intimidating weaklings. Anything that proved his broken ego wrong and allowed him to feel powerful was worth it in Erics mind. Anyone willing to kill innocent kids and blow up their school is a bully.

I have to agree with this. When i was in elementary and middle school I was bullied pretty badly, and I can recall joining in on the school bus with a group of kids who were picking on a boy for being fat and poor. And I joined in with them and laughed at him because I didn't want to be bullied for defending him. I have since made amends to this poor fellow, but you are absolutely right. There is a saying that "Hurt people hurt people" it is a vicious cycle.

PaintItBlack wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
I agree that some people bully because of projecting on to others but a lot of bullies I've seen who picked on me  and who I've seen bullying others seemed to do it both simply because they could and because they enjoyed doing so.They seemed to genuinely enjoy the pain and humilation of others for its own sake.

Bingo.. bullying is most often projection

PaintItBlack wrote:

@JlFox.
I hope you don't think that about Eric because of Dave Cullen's book.

Oh, no I haven't read that book. I read through all of E&D's journal entries and in one entry Eric had written that-
(damn, I'm not allowed to post a link yet but the entry I'm referring to is on 'acolumbinesite' on pg 14 or 15 of his journal)

Don't get me wrong, what they did was terrible and they were both horribly damaged people but I think depression had a lot to do with it for both of them (mostly Dylan) and Eric had some major Napolean complex and was a complete sociopath; together they were like fire and gasoline though.

If this hadn't happened, who knows if either of them would have made it to adulthood anyhow as they both pretty much resigned themselves to dying but I still just wonder if all the red flags hadn't been ignored and the ball hadn't been dropped on investigating the Harris' house and they somehow managed to make it to say, 30 years old, what would they think of their younger selves now? Would they have found better reasons to cope? Eric says that he would have made a great marine and it would have given him a reason to be good; he might have become a decent person who could look back and see how immature and stupid he was. We'll never know though so we just speculate. That's my 2 cents anyhow...

I would very much agree that there's a more complex and multi-layered nature to school bullying than is often acknowledged. You'll find all kinds of people who speak out against bullying (in the media especially) that seem to try to paint this black and white reality where there's always an distinct, cohesive group of bullies that target a specific individual or group that's on the recieving end of the punishment. Although this might be true in a smaller, classroom environment a giant school like Columbine would offer all kinds of different constellations in which people can be bullied. The simple 'jock' and 'nerd' narratives are a gross simplification imo. Having said this I find it quite plausible that Eric and Dylan both had instances where they engaged in bully-like behaviour (especially if one regards their general violent tendencies) even though the conventional notion portrays them as the sole victims of some sort of organized bullying effort which I would argue is rarely ever the case.

Given the fact alone that they killed those who had never lifted a finger against them, I think we can pretty much confirm they were both bullies.

Not to mention the various incidents at CHS pre-shooting.

Eric and Dylan bullied some people because that how is they were treated as well.

sororityalpha wrote:

Eric and Dylan bullied some people because that how is they were treated as well.

Or maybe it is the other way around? Maybe they were treated poorly by their classmates because they treated others poorly?

lasttrain wrote:

sororityalpha wrote:

Eric and Dylan bullied some people because that how is they were treated as well.

Or maybe it is the other way around?  Maybe they were treated poorly by their classmates because they treated others poorly?

One day, lasttrain, you need to come clean and tell us whether you are Dave Cullen, Dave's cousin, Dave's lover, a paid troll, or an unpaid troll.

lasttrain wrote:

sororityalpha wrote:

Eric and Dylan bullied some people because that how is they were treated as well.

Or maybe it is the other way around?  Maybe they were treated poorly by their classmates because they treated others poorly?

yes, probably a combination of both

deathmedic wrote:

Well even reading through the 11k there are some people that point to him and Dylan as bullies.

Yeah I don't believe it. Sorry to say about ole' Eric but I feel like someone could have beat his little scrawny ass easily. I don't think Eric could fight at all like he thought he could. So Eric as a bully? No I don't see that at all. I think even a girl could have beaten his ass, now Dylan, Dylan looked like he could beat YOUR ass (your in general, not saying your as if I'm talking about a particular person) but Eric? I think any guy with a good right hook could have beaten Eric's ass. Eric to me was like one of those Pomeranians, they have a lot of bark but when it comes to a fight, they'll get their asses kicked.

In the 11k there are a huge amount of instances where people say Eric and Dylan were bullied. There is clear proof they were, so if one wants to say they were bullies too you have to look at the way they were treated as well.

Here's the thing with bullying that some people may not understand. I was tortured and as soon as I fought back I was labeled a bully and the teachers sided with the other kids. It happens. I name called and shoved after being told for the upteenth time that I should be raped and shot and had gum and yogurt thrown at me. We all have a breaking point.

It is a cycle and obviously not the only reason it happened but to say there wasn't a bullying problem at Columbine is absurd. I agree with the perfect storm theory, it wasn't just one thing. Most kids that are bullied don't commit a massacre. Eric and Dylan did. We have to learn how to prevent it.

I do find it odd that E and D complained about how the jocks got away with stuff yet Dylan supposedly could threaten to kill kids, scratch lockers, slap his boss, push girls in gym and other things but get away with it... but most people said Dylan was gentle, kind and smart and Eric was the mean asshole.

Screamingophelia wrote:

In the 11k there are a huge amount of instances where people say Eric and Dylan were bullied. There is clear proof they were, so if one wants to say they were bullies too you have to look at the way they were treated as well.

Here's the thing with bullying that some people may not understand. I was tortured and as soon as I fought back I was labeled a bully and the teachers sided with the other kids. It happens. I name called and shoved after being told for the upteenth time that I should be raped and shot and had gum and yogurt thrown at me. We all have a breaking point.

It is a cycle and obviously not the only reason it happened but to say there wasn't a bullying problem at Columbine is absurd. I agree with the perfect storm theory, it wasn't just one thing. Most kids that are bullied don't commit a massacre. Eric and Dylan did. We have to learn how to prevent it.

I do find it odd that E and D complained about how the jocks got away with stuff yet Dylan supposedly could threaten to kill kids, scratch lockers, slap his boss, push girls in gym and other things but get away with it... but most people said Dylan was gentle, kind and smart and Eric was the mean asshole.

I know, I think it's sad how some love to vilify Eric and "angelize" (a new word I made up, yay lol) Dylan....Like I said, Eric's dead and he's still being treated like crap by some or a majority, while mostly everyone feels this enormous sympathy for Dylan.

Screamingophelia wrote:

I do find it odd that E and D complained about how the jocks got away with stuff yet Dylan supposedly could threaten to kill kids, scratch lockers, slap his boss, push girls in gym and other things but get away with it... but most people said Dylan was gentle, kind and smart and Eric was the mean asshole.

If I had to guess this is because Eric's outbursts (like threatening to kill Brooks Brown and vandalizing other people's homes) are better documented than Dylan's.

QuestionMark wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

I do find it odd that E and D complained about how the jocks got away with stuff yet Dylan supposedly could threaten to kill kids, scratch lockers, slap his boss, push girls in gym and other things but get away with it... but most people said Dylan was gentle, kind and smart and Eric was the mean asshole.

If I had to guess this is because Eric's outbursts (like threatening to kill Brooks Brown and vandalizing other people's homes) are better documented than Dylan's.

I think that's a pretty good guess to be honest.

Like someone else said, and Im sure there are people in here that are aware of this, because Sue Klebold wrote about this in her book, and Jeff Kass have theorized the same thing.

Unlike what Jeff Kass says, its not just possible, its a fact, that some bullies are also the targets of it.

Bullying research typically divides them into three categories

1: Bullies. These are solely bullies and they are not bullied themselves.

2: Targets. The ones that are bullied wo bullying others

3: Bullying- victims. They are both the recepients and perpetrators. And I believe its possible that some bullies bully because they want to 'retaliate' for their own experiences. As nasty as this seems it does suggest that some bullies, in fact, need help.

42099_4EVA wrote:

deathmedic wrote:

Well even reading through the 11k there are some people that point to him and Dylan as bullies.

Yeah I don't believe it. Sorry to say about ole' Eric but I feel like someone could have beat his little scrawny ass easily. I don't think Eric could fight at all like he thought he could. So Eric as a bully? No I don't see that at all. I think even a girl could have beaten his ass, now Dylan, Dylan looked like he could beat YOUR ass (your in general, not saying your as if I'm talking about a particular person) but Eric? I think any guy with a good right hook could have beaten Eric's ass. Eric to me was like one of those Pomeranians, they have a lot of bark but when it comes to a fight, they'll get their asses kicked.

Small in stature doesn't mean you cant beat people up. Also, if Im not mistaken- IDK that much about dogs- but from what Ive heard, the smaller dogs are actually the ones most likely to attack. I dont think everything is about size, but dominance.

I don't think Eric would have backed down from a fight, provided it wasn't a group beat down. He was scrawny, but crazy and full of rage. If he didn't win, he'd probably stick a pipe bomb in the gas tank of your car. Even the kid that punched him in the face (Kristi's bf?) was afraid of him and wanted off his shit list.

I thought that hit list had names blurted out for all apparat reasons