E/D and the afterlife/karma/God

I am having a hard time trying to figure out why E/D even believed in an afterlife, if they didn't believe in God. Did the boys actually think they could murder innocent people, commit suicide, and then have no karmic repercussions in whatever afterlife they believed in? Did they just think they could get away with it all scott-free and then have another life beyond this one where they would be happy, especially Dylan? I am not clear on Eric's thoughts on life after death, I'm more familiar with the Kleboldian comments on it. Any thoughts?

I think Dylan might have had some beliefs in an afterlife going off his "wherever the fuck I go" statement.

Interesting question. Dylan had been to church before and I think I read an unsubstantiated comment stating that Eric had been raised Lutheran. (not sure of validity) but in any case I think Dylan thought once he died he was going to go to his halcyon and that it was going to be a positive place (heaven like) with his love.

Hard to say for Eric. He didn't really talk about it. Maybe he didn't care.

Speaking of Dylan's love - do you think he was actively looking for her to shoot when the bombs didn't go off so he could kill her & she's join him in the afterlife?

I'm not sure how he thought that would go down when he met her at the pearly gates. "Sorry about the whole shooting you thing, but can we spend eternity together now?"

Draw_It_White wrote:

Speaking of Dylan's love - do you think he was actively looking for her to shoot when the bombs didn't go off so he could kill her & she's join him in the afterlife?

I'm not sure how he thought that would go down when he met her at the pearly gates. "Sorry about the whole shooting you thing, but can we spend eternity together now?"

Pretty safe bet that he thought she would be hit by the bombs. I wonder if he would have seen her if he would have shot her....there are theories that Rachel Scott was the girl, but iirc Eric shot her not Dylan.

I've wondered about this as well.  Didn't they tell someone in the library during the shooting that "God is gay"? How can you believe in a god, call him gay, murder innocent people,  and then think that said god will grant you happiness in the afterlife?

It's hard to figure Eric out because he is one gigantic hypocritical walking contradiction.  One minute he's stating how god-like he is....the next he's condemning humanity for believing they are gods. In his journal, he often capitalizes the word "God" the same way in which a believer would. He also refers to how he hates being told what to do by "parents, teachers, and God". Based on this, I would assume that he did believe in a god.....but for whatever reason, he felt he was special and that murdering innocent people would truly be justified.

Now that I'm sitting here thinking about it......it seems like Eric was completely delusional. He's just one contradiction after another.

ThoughtBox wrote:

I am having a hard time trying to figure out why E/D even believed in an afterlife, if they didn't believe in God. Did the boys actually think they could murder innocent people, commit suicide, and then have no karmic repercussions in whatever afterlife they believed in? Did they just think they could get away with it all scott-free and then have another life beyond this one where they would be happy, especially Dylan? I am not clear on Eric's thoughts on life after death, I'm more familiar with the Kleboldian comments on it. Any thoughts?

They clearly were not religious people. In the BT they allegedly discuss and speculate on life-after-death. They believed in "something" after death whether it's God or not - they weren't sure (who knows for sure at the end of the day?). As far as "getting away" with their actions, I don't think they thought that way, in my opinion they just didn't really care about the potential future consequences in the after-life.

Eric believed in some kind of afterlife as he talked about it.I think there were many, many things they didn't understand then about the nature of God and Heaven.I am glad they understand these things now and see the error of their ways and understand everything that they didn't before.

Vii wrote:

ThoughtBox wrote:

I am having a hard time trying to figure out why E/D even believed in an afterlife, if they didn't believe in God. Did the boys actually think they could murder innocent people, commit suicide, and then have no karmic repercussions in whatever afterlife they believed in? Did they just think they could get away with it all scott-free and then have another life beyond this one where they would be happy, especially Dylan? I am not clear on Eric's thoughts on life after death, I'm more familiar with the Kleboldian comments on it. Any thoughts?

They clearly were not religious people. In the BT they allegedly discuss and speculate on life-after-death. They believed in "something" after death whether it's God or not - they weren't sure (who knows for sure at the end of the day?). As far as "getting away" with their actions, I don't think they thought that way, in my opinion they just didn't really care about the potential future consequences in the after-life.

Enough to hope they could come back as spirits or ghosts to haunt their victims.

slippy123 wrote:

Vii wrote:

ThoughtBox wrote:

I am having a hard time trying to figure out why E/D even believed in an afterlife, if they didn't believe in God. Did the boys actually think they could murder innocent people, commit suicide, and then have no karmic repercussions in whatever afterlife they believed in? Did they just think they could get away with it all scott-free and then have another life beyond this one where they would be happy, especially Dylan? I am not clear on Eric's thoughts on life after death, I'm more familiar with the Kleboldian comments on it. Any thoughts?

They clearly were not religious people. In the BT they allegedly discuss and speculate on life-after-death. They believed in "something" after death whether it's God or not - they weren't sure (who knows for sure at the end of the day?). As far as "getting away" with their actions, I don't think they thought that way, in my opinion they just didn't really care about the potential future consequences in the after-life.

Enough to hope they could come back as spirits or ghosts to haunt their victims.

They weren't talking in terms of their beliefs though. Eric said IF there is an afterlife it'd be cool to come back as ghosts. We know that Dylan believed in his Halcyon, and that killing/dying was a part of that twisted belief. I'm not sure Eric believed in any kind of afterlife or higher power. If he did I don't think he'd have said so. Believing in something greater than himself would have gone against the "alpha dog" image he tried to create.

Nirvana92 wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

Vii wrote:

ThoughtBox wrote:

I am having a hard time trying to figure out why E/D even believed in an afterlife, if they didn't believe in God. Did the boys actually think they could murder innocent people, commit suicide, and then have no karmic repercussions in whatever afterlife they believed in? Did they just think they could get away with it all scott-free and then have another life beyond this one where they would be happy, especially Dylan? I am not clear on Eric's thoughts on life after death, I'm more familiar with the Kleboldian comments on it. Any thoughts?

They clearly were not religious people. In the BT they allegedly discuss and speculate on life-after-death. They believed in "something" after death whether it's God or not - they weren't sure (who knows for sure at the end of the day?). As far as "getting away" with their actions, I don't think they thought that way, in my opinion they just didn't really care about the potential future consequences in the after-life.

Enough to hope they could come back as spirits or ghosts to haunt their victims.

They weren't talking in terms of their beliefs though. Eric said IF there is an afterlife it'd be cool to come back as ghosts. We know that Dylan believed in his Halcyon, and that killing/dying was a part of that twisted belief. I'm not sure Eric believed in any kind of afterlife or higher power. If he did I don't think he'd have said so. Believing in something greater than himself would have gone against the "alpha dog" image he tried to create.

I get what you're saying. They were both so hypocritical that it's hard to really know what they actually felt sometimes.

Freezingmoon wrote:

I've wondered about this as well.  Didn't they tell someone in the library during the shooting that "God is gay"? How can you believe in a god, call him gay, murder innocent people,  and then think that said god will grant you happiness in the afterlife?

It's hard to figure Eric out because he is one gigantic hypocritical walking contradiction.  One minute he's stating how god-like he is....the next he's condemning humanity for believing they are gods. In his journal, he often capitalizes the word "God" the same way in which a believer would. He also refers to how he hates being told what to do by "parents, teachers, and God". Based on this, I would assume that he did believe in a god.....but for whatever reason, he felt he was special and that murdering innocent people would truly be justified.

Now that I'm sitting here thinking about it......it seems like Eric was completely delusional. He's just one contradiction after another.

Right and they said in the BT they were thankful that the Romans crucified that a**hole (Jesus).

I would have to guess that they just didn't give a fuck about karma (or however they would have put it) resulting in some sort of payback for cold-blooded murder, not to mention suicide.

I do agree with [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] in that Eric was a bundle of contradictions; at least Dylan pretty much was consistent with his Halcyon beliefs.

I posted this topic because I just have a hard time reconciling how and why they would think that they could hope for an afterlife of some sort without repercussions for what they planned on doing.

ThoughtBox wrote:

I would have to guess that they just didn't give a fuck about karma (or however they would have put it) resulting in some sort of payback for cold-blooded murder, not to mention suicide.

I do agree with [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] in that Eric was a bundle of contradictions; at least Dylan pretty much was consistent with his Halcyon beliefs.

I posted this topic because I just have a hard time reconciling how and why they would think that they could hope for an afterlife of some sort without repercussions for what they planned on doing.

Well kinda OT but I have a coworker that believes that EVERYONE regardless of their actions on this earth goes to Heaven when they die because God loves everyone and no one will be left behind. Not my personal belief but it is interesting to hear him talk about it.

I think the case could be made that they would best be described as inchoate pantheists who held some sort of propositional belief in a pantheistic universe. That has to be qualified of course because there is no evidence (as far as I'm aware) that they described themselves as such; nor were they systematic practitioners, a part of any organization which holds pantheist beliefs, and we have to keep in mind they were immature teenagers.

Lizpuff wrote:

Freezingmoon wrote:

I've wondered about this as well.  Didn't they tell someone in the library during the shooting that "God is gay"? How can you believe in a god, call him gay, murder innocent people,  and then think that said god will grant you happiness in the afterlife?

It's hard to figure Eric out because he is one gigantic hypocritical walking contradiction.  One minute he's stating how god-like he is....the next he's condemning humanity for believing they are gods. In his journal, he often capitalizes the word "God" the same way in which a believer would. He also refers to how he hates being told what to do by "parents, teachers, and God". Based on this, I would assume that he did believe in a god.....but for whatever reason, he felt he was special and that murdering innocent people would truly be justified.

Now that I'm sitting here thinking about it......it seems like Eric was completely delusional. He's just one contradiction after another.

Right and they said in the BT they were thankful that the Romans crucified that a**hole (Jesus).  

My belief is that when Eric referred to himself as being like a god, he just meant it in the sense that he believed he was powerful/better than everyone. When he mentioned  how he hated being told what to do by "God", I think he was just referring to the idea of a god that many of his peers/society "obeyed". I don't get the feeling that Eric believed in a "God" and I'm not even sure if he believed in some type of "higher power" as Dylan possibly may have.

But yes, contradictory ramblings galore. Sometimes I think we are looking too deeply into the words of angry, immature teens.

Didn't Eric say on one occasion that he hopes death is like 'constant dream state' and how neat that would be... I think we'd get our answer if we actually got to see the BT, I'm sure they discussed the possibilities of afterlife there... Sadly we won't ever see them.

Freezingmoon wrote:

I've wondered about this as well.  Didn't they tell someone in the library during the shooting that "God is gay"? How can you believe in a god, call him gay, murder innocent people,  and then think that said god will grant you happiness in the afterlife?

It's hard to figure Eric out because he is one gigantic hypocritical walking contradiction.  One minute he's stating how god-like he is....the next he's condemning humanity for believing they are gods. In his journal, he often capitalizes the word "God" the same way in which a believer would. He also refers to how he hates being told what to do by "parents, teachers, and God". Based on this, I would assume that he did believe in a god.....but for whatever reason, he felt he was special and that murdering innocent people would truly be justified.

Now that I'm sitting here thinking about it......it seems like Eric was completely delusional. He's just one contradiction after another.

Sometimes you have to remember that they were both immature 17 year olds though, and even younger in some stages of their journal writings. Kids being contradictory at that age quite common I'd imagine. I for one don't think that Eric believed or gave a single shit about there being a God, nor did he realistically think he was one.

thedude11 wrote:

Didn't Eric say on one occasion that he hopes death is like 'constant dream state' and how neat that would be... I think we'd get our answer if we actually got to see the BT, I'm sure they discussed the possibilities of afterlife there... Sadly we won't ever see them.

Good point, now THAT may be true, that they actually discussed these thoughts/opinions in the BTs...

thedude11 wrote:

Didn't Eric say on one occasion that he hopes death is like 'constant dream state' and how neat that would be... I think we'd get our answer if we actually got to see the BT, I'm sure they discussed the possibilities of afterlife there... Sadly we won't ever see them.

Does the thought of being stuck in a dream state (or any state for that matter) for eternity not freak anyone the fuck out. I don't know how Eric could find that anything but horrifying.

eli27 wrote:

thedude11 wrote:

Didn't Eric say on one occasion that he hopes death is like 'constant dream state' and how neat that would be... I think we'd get our answer if we actually got to see the BT, I'm sure they discussed the possibilities of afterlife there... Sadly we won't ever see them.

Does the thought of being stuck in a dream state (or any state for that matter) for eternity not freak anyone the fuck out. I don't know how Eric could find that anything but horrifying.

Yeah, plus Eric said constant 'dreamless state', which freaks me out even more...

ThoughtBox wrote:

thedude11 wrote:

Didn't Eric say on one occasion that he hopes death is like 'constant dream state' and how neat that would be... I think we'd get our answer if we actually got to see the BT, I'm sure they discussed the possibilities of afterlife there... Sadly we won't ever see them.

Good point, now THAT may be true, that they actually discussed these thoughts/opinions in the BTs...

Yeah, if I'm not mistaken, they were (on bt) joking how they would come back as ghosts and haunt people... Plus they discussed, but probably joked as well, I don't think they were THAT delusional, that it'd be neat if after-life was like a DOOM game where they'd be trapped to fight demons. And yeah, plus Eric mentioned constant dreamless state would be neat as well, which is freaky...

eli27 wrote:

thedude11 wrote:

Didn't Eric say on one occasion that he hopes death is like 'constant dream state' and how neat that would be... I think we'd get our answer if we actually got to see the BT, I'm sure they discussed the possibilities of afterlife there... Sadly we won't ever see them.

Does the thought of being stuck in a dream state (or any state for that matter) for eternity not freak anyone the fuck out. I don't know how Eric could find that anything but horrifying.

It certainly freaks me out!

It doesnt seem that the kleibold or harris families were actively practicing any religion or faith. E&D's idea of any afterlife consisted only of what they wanted it to be. I dont believe they gave any thought to karma. I dont believe they even considered any kind of spiritual repercussions (for lack of better words).